If we're handing out cash for higher mileage vehicles; WHERE THE HELL'S MY MONEY?

[taterguy]

Sorry, but this really sticks in my craw.

I use a bicycle for most of my transportation.

I do it for a lot of reasons.

One, but not the only, is that I felt silly in 1990 chanting NO BLOOD FOR OIL.

So now we have this spiffy new government program. If you have a vehicle which gets low mileage (Most of which were bought after the 1990 war; and 99% of which were bought after the 1970s Energy Crisis), the government gives you $4,000 for buying a new vehicle, but it has to be a car.

I don't ask for much.

I accept that in my area there's not going to be any investment in making it safe for me to bike to work; despite the fact that a considerable portion of the money the government spends for road building and and maintenance comes from general revenue funds. I've read my city's budget. It's several million dollars, and that doesn't count state and federal expenditures.

So I bike to work anyway, despite the fact that the only road that leads to my employer has been officially designated "Unsuitable for bicycles", and that there are abandoned railroad tracks next to this road that would make an ideal bike path.

But now I need a new bike. It would only cost $500, because my friendly local bike shop owner likes me.

Could I please have a little more than 10% of what you car folks are getting?

Please?

[Shagbark Hickory]

1. Not gonna save the economy by encouraging people to ride bikes.

[taterguy]

2. Says who?

Most bikes are American made.

And they're fueled by food, most of which is grown in America, as opposed to oil.

So if there was a genuine and concerted effort to encourage cycling, not necessarily for all trips, but at least for trips where it's feasible; I think the impact on our economy would be very beneficial. (But I'm not one of those dudes who was lucky enough to write Freakonmics)

[Shagbark Hickory]

6. Says me.

People don't blow half their paychecks on bicycle payments. They blow them on SUVs, cars, gas, insurance, repairs and accessories.

If people switched to bikes, they would be saving a lot of money. A good practice in theory but our economy is not set up for that. Our economy is set up towards spending money we don't have on shit we don't need.

[taterguy]

9. I spend lots of money on shit I don't need

The money I don't spend on gas is spent on beer and smokes.

[Shagbark Hickory]

39. Well that's a good start but you need to be buying beer & smokes in addition to the Escalade/Tahoe&

related expenses.

[tridim]

7. Really? I would have guessed that 99% of all bikes are made in China

Do you mean most high-end bikes are made in America?

[Fumesucker]

14. Mine isn't exactly "high end"....

At least not by today's standards.. but it certainly isn't low end..

It was made in Taiwan, but the company was American, they have since gone out of business though.

[1]

35. what have you mounted on the side there? it looks like an anti-suv missile...

[Fumesucker]

38. The picture was taken on our local bike trail, which used to be a railroad track..

The object on the far side of my bike is a railroad car wheel that is used as a bench for people to rest on..

I just thought it made a nice juxtaposition, the old extremely heavy wheels with the new light ones.

Although an anti SUV missile wouldn't be a bad idea.. :)

[Bluenorthwest]

40. I don't have stats

but bicycle manufacture is an important source of employment in my city and county, as are accessories for bikes, such as trailers to tow kids or bags. People get paid to make them, design them, sell them. Business.
Most of them probably are made in China, but not all, and they did not used to be, and they do not have to be in the future, either.

[dysfunctional press]

33. "most bikes are american made"...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

"And they're fueled by food, most of which is grown in America,"

but they won't let you use them at the drive-thru, and mcdonald's alone does almost half it's business at the drive-up window...bikes won't generate that kind of spending on mcfat.

as far as all those short trips on bikes helping the economy- those short trips use the most gas, put the most wear on the brakes, and most accidents occur within 5 miles of home- those a re ALL big revenue builders for a lot of businesses...bikes just don't generate the same kind of lifelong expenditures as cars do.

[taterguy]

36. It's really just a question of where the money gets spent

Cyclists have more disposable income.

People that rely on cars give most of their money to banks and oil companies.

A cyclist can spend his money on anything: Books, music, vacations, etc.; all of which help the economy.

(Assuming that you're taking a vacation in the US)

[dysfunctional press]

37. "Cyclists have more disposable income..."

"People that rely on cars give most of their money to banks and oil companies."

could you please provide some statistics, or links to statistics that support those statements?

btw- if cyclists already have more disposable income to spend- what's the problem with helping out the people who NEED their cars for their day to day lives- seeing that their transpotation costs so much more than a cyclist- and especially when the cyclists supposedly have so much more disposable income already...?

[taterguy]

42. The book Asphalt Nation provides information on an average person's automobile expenses

I'd cite a specific passage but someone borrowed my copy and didn't return it.

Besides, it's something that everyone should read anyway.

My problem with the program is that it's using gasoline to put out a fire (pun intended).

Many of our nation's problems are caused or exacerbated by over-use of automobiles.

Anything that promotes automobile usage is well, dumb.

Why not take the Cash For Clunkers money and spend it on something productive:

Like infrastructure improvements to make communities more pedestrian friendly?

Or incentives to purchase homes that are centrally located?

That way fewer people would "need" cars.

[dysfunctional press]

43. that doesn't mean that cyclists have more disposable income...

if the car owner has a higher salary than the cyclist- they can afford to spend money(hardly "all their money" :eyes: :eyes:) on their auto and still have much more disposable income than a minimum wage cyclist.

as it is- our entire society and infrastructure is based around the personal vehicle- and it isn't the vehicles themselves that cause the problems as it is the means in which they are powered.

what would be dumb would be to try to re-invent our entire infrastructure, rather than developing alternative ways to power vehicles other than internal combustion.

getting as many of the obsolete and inefficient vehicles off the road as possible as quickly as possible is an incremental step in that direction.

[taterguy]

44. Have you read the book? Apparently you haven't.

Get back to me when you have.

[dysfunctional press]

45. it's not the only book on the topic. nor the only opinion.

:shrug: and it's over 10 years old...maybe you should look for some updated sources that use current data...i prefer not to waste my time on the obsolete out-of-date research or projections.

[taterguy]

46. A simple yes or no would suffice

:eyes:

[Muttocracy]

3. If it was up to me you would...

Yes, we should be rewarding bicycling! I wish I had a good path to work.

But even among cars, I think it's absurd how they've set it up. It's not about the environment, it's about $$

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6148653

[Hassin Bin Sober]

4. And while we are at it, I want tax credits for kids I don't have.

And a write off for a second home I don't own.

And a free school lunch.

I'm not adopting I child but I hear that gets you a nice junk. Where's mine?

[Fumesucker]

11. You missed the point..

Taterguy *is* going to buy a new bike.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

17. No, he's complaining about a tax credit he doesn't qualify for.

[Fumesucker]

26. Not quite, he wants the tax credit also applied to his preferred form of transportation..

I personally think the thing is a gerrymandered, discriminatory mess.

[doc03]

5. Why should it be limited to cars that get less than 18 mpg

I have a clunker that gets 30 mpg I could trade for a hybrid that would do much better.

[SeattleGirl]

12. Neither of my cars qualify.

One is because it has the "wrong" kind of engine.

The other one because it hasn't been in may name a minimum of a year. Gee, I guess my mom should have passed away sooner.:grr:

The rules for this program suck.

[doc03]

16. The auto companies are starting to offer matching

discounts for trading. It sure would be nice to get $9000 for my 1999 Tracer and driving away with a new hybrid for about $15000. I figure I will keep the old Tracer until it starts giving me trouble otherwise.

[SeattleGirl]

21. Yeah, I know.

Pisses me off big time that I can't get that.

Can't get the gubmit share either.

[anigbrowl]

8. I fully agree with you on this one

I don't own a car either, so apparently that makes me less deserving of any economic subsidy. I'm not opposed to the 'cash for clunkers' program but I can't help feeling it indulges auto fetishists. It doesn't help motorcyclists or commercial vehicle users either. and it has pointless silly bureaucratic rules, when the obvious way to calculate the subsidy would be:

  mileage of new vehicle
(______________________ - 1 ) * $10,000
  mileage of old vehicle

But of course that would require people to actually pull out a sheet of paper or a calculator and perform some math.

[Fumesucker]

10. Math is hard..

You wouldn't want people to hurt their brains by straining them, would you?

:evilgrin:

[spanone]

13. when i bought my hybrid in 2003 i got a $2000.00 tax break...then bu$h* deep sixed that

[Serial Mom]

15. Thank you for saying No blood for oil since 1990....

Not many people believed it was happening then, but that was the first Iraq war and it too was for oil and for the BFEE ties to the Saudi's.

I wish more people thught like you!

[tammywammy]

18. Try writing your congressmen and senators and see if they'll add one on

Or you can keep bitching about not gettin' yours on the internet. :shrug:

[madrchsod]

19. i borrowed my son`s brand new american made bike

i have a 86 crx but no money to fix it so i borrowed the bike to get me around town.

[doc03]

20. I figure for the most part people have old

gas guzzling clunkers because they can't afford a new car payment. Another thing if they are old gas guzzling clunkers how much longer would they actually be on the road anyway. My brother has an old pickup that qualifies but he can't make payments on a new truck and his old one is broke more than it runs.

[taterguy]

23. Who says that I can "afford" a new bike?

Money's tight.

I need some cash.

If it's being doled out, why shouldn't I get mine?

Seriously.

Give me one compelling reason.

[doc03]

24. Hey if I had my way instead of bailing out all

Wall Street crooks that f----d the economy up, I would have given every American the money instead.

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. Which is what should have been done. But NOOO! Give it to the banksters instead and it will

trickle down :rofl: :silly:

[BlooInBloo]

22. ZOMG! Someone somewhere is getting something I'm not getting!! OUTRAGEOUS!!!!

[GoesTo11]

25. We're not "handing out cash", this is an outrageous reason to tax people

I am disgusted by this program. Just put in mileage limits if we need them. $4000 for rich people to buy new cars? That $4000 comes from us. That's a lot - that could feed a family for a year. Why are they playing this stupid game? I suppose it's to give $ to car makers, but then it should just be for American cars.

[Fumesucker]

27. What do you mean by "mileage limits"?

Is this something that is going to discriminate against rural folks who have to drive a lot further to work, school, the store and so forth?

[GoesTo11]

29. Fuel economy limits, as in "my car gets good mileage"

Just CAFE requirements for new cars, and then gradually introduce requirements for old cars (based on make and model) so they are taken off the roads. Paying 4000 for a beater with a book value of 500 is just stupid.

Better yet, just put a $5/gal tax on gas and let people take guzzlers out of commission on their own.

[Fumesucker]

31. I proposed a gas tax of nowhere near $5/gal back when gas was about $1.60 or so last time..

The consensus was something like "Are you out of your fucking mind?"..

At least the polite ones were, not everyone was polite. :)

[SeattleGirl]

28. Mileage limits?

That would sure as hell keep a lot of people from going to work.

[hunter]

30. I could get the credit...

But there's no way in hell I would ever buy a new car. I did that once in my life, I'm done.

My current favorite family car cost $800. It's too old to be a "cash for clunker."

[obliviously]

32. And you cause traffic problems

and dangerous situations on busy streets everyday! Plus the carbon you expell as you belch and fart yor way down the road!

[taterguy]

34. Do you have facts to back up those assertions or are you just making stuff up?

Traffic problems are caused by too many cars using the roads. Bicycles take up less space so the reality is that extensive bicycle usage would alleviate congestion.

As for dangerous situations, there's nothing inherent about bicycles that cause them. Dangerous situations are caused when people in a hurry attempt to pass bicycles before it's safe. I've created "dangerous situations" in a car by having the audacity to travel at the speed limit on a residential street.

[michreject]

47. 500 for a bike? !!!!!!!!

I thought they were like 89 bucks or something. That's what they cost at Wall-Mart.

[taterguy]

48. You get what you pay for

For $500 I get fitted for a bike by an expert; and the same expert fixes the bike for a year and then provides discounted maintenance for the rest of the life of the bike.

I get about 10,000 miles out of a bike. I suspect most Walmart bikes rarely make it to 1,000 miles.

[LeftyMom]

49. You don't even work on your own bike?

I mean yeah, don't by a walmart piece of shit. Duh. But learn to adjust your own bike, at least, if not to do more involved repairs. Bikes aren't complicated, you can figure it out.

Go on Craigslist or check out your local resale shops. Find somebody else's two year old $500 bike that they rode twice and then stuck in their garage. Pay $40 or so, change the tubes and adjust everything to your liking. Take your savings and buy some decent tools so you can learn to do your own repairs.

[taterguy]

50. Did my wife pay you to post that?

She doesn't understand why I want to pay a bunch of money instead of learning to do something myself.

Of course she also wouldn't want a bike stand taking up a bunch of room in our small house.

I have tried to make adjustments before; but my professional mechanic manages to do a better job than I ever could.