RW's latest reason to oppose health care reform - illegals!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

Subject: Act Now to Stop Obama-Care for Illegals

Dear Friends,

Some of the faces in Washington may have changed but the tactics are as duplicitous as ever. The Democratic leaders are up to no good---they are deliberately misleading America about their intent to cover illegal immigrants under their health care plan. That's right, while it's been widely reported that illegals are not being covered-don't believe a word of it.

We need to put a little light of day on this matter---and no one can do that better than you. I'll give you the facts-then you need to call, write,20email, or just show up in their district offices and let your congressman know that you know and you are not standing for it.

Obama and the Democrats know their socialized health care scheme is a tough sell for the American people. And if they give our taxpayer funded health care to illegal aliens, they know they will pay dearly at the ballot box. A recent Rasmussen poll stated that 80% of Americans are against government providing health care to illegals.

With this in mind, Senate Finance Chair Max Baucus said, "We're not going to cover undocumented aliens, undocumented workers. That's too politically explosive."

Translation: he wants it, but the American people won't stand for it.

Even Barack Obama said this week that he was against giving national health care to illegal aliens with one important exception, the usual left wing canard. He wants it for the children. He wants taxpayers to pay for the health care of all illegal alien minors-sounds like a fantastic reason for foreigners to travel to the US illegally-especially if they have a really sick or needy child.

But Obama didn't stop there-and risk disappointing La Raza and the other open border fanatics who support him. He added that he would solve the problem of uninsured illegals by creating "a situation where we 're dealing with illegal immigration, so that we don't have illegal immigrants... And I want a comprehensive immigration plan that creates a pathway to achieve that." In other words we will first give them amnesty, and then health care!

But even this is a lie. Illegal aliens will be able to get Obama care. The bill doesn't say straight out "we're giving health care to illegals," but there is absolutely nothing in the bill that requires screening to ensure that illegal aliens don't abuse the system. This past week Congressman Dean Heller introduced an Amendment to the Ways and Means Committee that would have required that the federal government to verify the legal status of applicants for the government health care plan or credits for private health insurance. Every single Democrat on the Committee voted against this common sense Amendment!

Let's show Baucus just how "politically explosive" giving free health care to lawbreakers is. Call up your representative and tell them to vote against Obama Care. Tell them that if they vote for the bill, they are voting to give billions of dollars of your tax dollars to illegal aliens, and that you will hold them responsible come election time.

This fight is raging right now. Some conserv ative Democrats are trying to stop this insanity. But they need your help. I'll be writing a column about the fraud of Obama care and bringing it up on television but the best way to stop it is the same way we stopped the treasonous amnesty bill-with your calls.

Thanks for all you do to keep Washington from taking this country right over the edge. If we can hold on for another fifteen months we can throw some of these bums out and send to Congress Americans who will fight for us! Please call today, and again on Monday and Tuesday!

With all my respect and appreciation,


Bay Buchanan
Co-Chairman

[RaleighNCDUer]

1. From Bay Buchanan - why am I not surprised? nt

[WorseBeforeBetter]

2. I was told the same thing last night by a wingnut neighbor...

"Obama's health plan is for Hispanic women and their babies."

Between this and "gassing Grandma," I'm losing faith in passage of anything.

[OHdem10]

3. Illegals have come up before. Often at Fox, it is reported that

80% of Americans are covered and satisfied with their Health
Insurance. "Let's see who is not covered---Young Americans
who do not think they need Insurance, Illegals" In other
words the groups not covered are really not that important
or they are "illegally here". They know this stirs the Anti-
Illegal Sentiment in this country.

Here some rendition of this over and over does nothing to help
the passage of Health Insurance Reform.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Even Cuba has better access to health care than we do

They don't come here for health care.

[JayMusgrove]

11. Mexico, too!

Women in Mexico can have childbirth care for next to free.

They come here for better advantages for their children and themselves, (because they are POOR AND WANT TO WORK!). NOT for free health care.

[ejpoeta]

5. sounds like my family members who claim that illegals come here and

live on welfare and get medicaid. uggh. apparently they do not know that you have to be a RESIDENT to qualify to get any assistance from the state. I guess I would know better than them, since I have been on assistance myself. try eplaining it to them. they think that the folks at the social services office must routinely deny us good white folks so they can be sure to have the resources to give to all those hispanics. funny thing is.... in the same breath they'll make comments about the 'mexicans' driving around 20 in a car going to work in the fields. which is it!! are they lazy and living off the rest of us, or hard working!!! uggh. sometimes i wish i had been adopted.

[Kansas Wyatt]

6. Does Canada give Americans free health care?

Does Mexico allow illegal entry into Mexico from their southern border or offer any sympathy for illegal immigration into Mexico?

NO & NO

Illegals should NOT receive a damn thing, except immediate deportation.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. They don't get health care here and that's not why they come anyway

They have better health care in their home countries!

[Kansas Wyatt]

17. Problem Solved! Illegals can use their own government health care in their country.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. As soon as our businesses stop hiring them here, they can do exactly that

[Kansas Wyatt]

24. So nice to see that you finally see what is illegal.

Since they have no reason at all to be here illegally and it is against the law to hire them, all of them should be immediately deported to their countries for their own government health care.

At least as of August 28th, illegals will not be allowed on government funded construction sites in Missouri, without an OSHA 10 card. Many states are following this requirement, which will effectively make it a lot harder for illegals to steal paychecks from American workers and contractors to hire unqualified illegal workers. Finally the backlash and crackdown begins! How's that for the 'taking back our country' rhetoric?

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. How do you propose to pay to deport them?

My position has not changed at all. I have said all along they are here for the JOBS, NAFTA destroyed the economies in most Central American countries and these immigrants do not suck our benefits. In fact, an argument can be made that the financial benefits of all of this cheap labor outweigh the costs.

I find it racist to bash these people, as they are human beings who are just trying to survive. Like me. Like most Americans.

Yes I am angry that many Americans have lost their jobs to these illegal workers but I don't blame the workers; I blame the greedy employers who not only hire them, but often help smuggle them over the border with false promises. And I blame the politicians who allow this to continue. But not the people.

We need to start putting employers in jail for violating numerous immigration and labor laws.

I also understand this situation enough to realize deporting every single illegal person is cost prohibitive. Especially in this economy. Stop hiring them and they will stop coming. Take away the jobs and they will find their way back home.

But for the GOP to take this hotbed issue and use it to prevent health care reform is despicable. Of course, I am used to the GOP behaving badly and inciting their base to hate with false talking points.

[Kansas Wyatt]

36. I have NEVER bashed anyone & my position has never changed.

Illegal entry is no different than illegally employed. It's all the same to me. Oh, "cheap labor" costs everyone higher wages all the way up the ladder, unless YOU do not have to worry about those "costs."

[Lance_Boyle]

43. fine the employer an amount sufficient to cover deportation costs,

plus an additional penalty as disincentive to try to hire any more illegals.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. They couldn't begin to afford it

Should we just let them go out of business? What about all those jobs?

[lefthandedlefty]

52. You know what Bush said

They do the jobs we won`t

[teachableseconds]

56. ...like the rest of the world! Try and go to another country and have your kid born there...

See what nationality s/he is. If the parent/s is/are citizens, then I guess the kid is a citizen. But if they are just there, fuggedaboutit.

[Canuckistanian]

9. We have a good system for keeping out the riffraff

Everyone needs a valid healthcare card with a smart read feature.

You can tell this to everyone who says, "If Canadian health care is so good, why aren't Americans using THEIR free system?"

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. In SICKO, Michael Moore takes the 911 responders to Cuba

where they are given health care and medications for a fraction of what they cost here.

It's just ignorant to think any foreigner comes here for better health care.

[wolfgangmo]

27. Better health care is the number one cited reason

Of Americans' trying to emigrate to Canada.

[JayMusgrove]

16. If you get sick while in Nova Scotia, or Brittish Columbia, or anywhere

in between, you have a heart attack, go into labor for delivery for a baby, get swine flu, get in a traffic accident...

NO ONE SHIPS YOU BACK to the USA for treatment, and NO ONE charges you BEFORE treatment, they ask for actual cost of treatment, (much lower than in the USA) after you recover, are back in your nation, and can work to pay it off.

I'm thinking of driving to Canada for emergency treatment, instead of being screwed by a $1000 bill for 3 hours of ER services in the USA.

[Kansas Wyatt]

18. Sounds like a good plan for illegals, after the U.S. deports them.

If they can't pay, then their country should be billed.

[endarkenment]

21. Quite a few countries with UHC will treat you, no questions asked.

It is called being a compassionate human being. You should learn about it sometime.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Bingo

[MountainLaurel]

23. Yep

My husband has been treated in a few nations with healthcare for all. Not only did he get better care even as a nonresident, he didn't pay a dime.

[Kansas Wyatt]

25. Nobody invited them to come here and break our laws.

They have their own government health care in their countries, so they do not need it in ours, since they illegally entered the U.S.

You should learn to be respectful of laws.

[wolfgangmo]

28. Who exactly is "THEY?"

Are 'they" related to the mercedes driving welfare mother that Reagan talked about?

Compared to the amount of money that the insurance and pharma companies suck out of the system, "they" are a drop in the bucket.

Administrative overhead in the US for private insurance companies runs from 20% to a high of 50% with 27% being average. No other industry comes close to being this ineffective. No other industry practices medicine with minimum wage clerks. No other country rations care as much as the US. No other country has as long of wait times in ER's as the US. No other country spends more than we do and gets 3rd world results.

You, my friend, are barking up the wrong tree.

[Kansas Wyatt]

30. Illegal aliens

Happy now?

No?

How about illegal immigrant?

Don't worry, I want Death Merchants abolished just as much as I want illegals deported. At least illegals would get government medical care in their own country, so there is no need to give it to them here.

Now, if you think I do not have experience with insurance, medical, and pharmaceutical industries, you are barking up the wrong tree.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Romulox]

42. Here in Detroit, Canada is a few minutes away by car. Canada will NOT treat US citizens

because they are geographically close to the border...

:hi:

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

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[Hugabear]

35. So you would be okay with children DYING because their parents were "illegal"?

I can't believe I've been seeing so much right-wing bullshit on DU lately.

[Kansas Wyatt]

37. So you would be okay with children going hungry and dying without health care...

Because illegals destroyed job markets?

Right Wingers love illegals being here, so they can pay less... Save your bullshit.

Besides those "children" have government health care in their own country.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Those "children" aren't in their home country; they are here

I draw the line at kids suffering, regardless of where they were born.

[Kansas Wyatt]

45. Who brought them here?

You mean their parents involved them in a crime?

Responsible parents would take care of their kids, and NOT deny their own kids the government health care already provided for them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. That doesn't justify penalizing kids

BTW, I still want to know how you propose we pay to deport these people.

[Kansas Wyatt]

51. You should talk to their parents then!

Pay for deportation:

1) Heavy fines on employers, including property seizures. Which would immediately stop the hiring of them, and illegals would return to their own country with their OWN money.

2) If caught, THEIR money will pay for their own return... Whatever they have, because it's ill gotten gains. If it doesn't cover paying for their processing and return, then their country of origin would be presented with a bill.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. I talk to their parents all the time

1. I agree. Employers must be penalized.

2. These are mostly very poor people who have no assets. I also doubt their home countries could afford to pay. That's why they are here; the economy at home has been destroyed and there are no job opportunities.

[Kansas Wyatt]

55. So you just want to complain to me about "penalizing" kids.

While you whisper 'sweet nothings' into the ears of the parents here illegally, who PUT their kids in that situation.

In case you haven't noticed from YOUR government funded job... For over the last decade, millions of Americans and their families, including their children, have been greatly harmed by illegal workers. Americans have had their jobs destroyed by illegal workers and have been oppressed by the lack of job opportunities in this economy. Just ask construction workers what illegal workers have cost them and done to their families.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. You have no idea what I whisper in anyone's ear

That is off base and uncalled for.

And if you want to continue parroting RW comments in this thread, you are only making yourself look bad. I am at least on the street trying to solve the problem.

[Kansas Wyatt]

61. Corporate America sponsored the Illegals' rallies on streets a few years ago too.

You have no right to blame me for the illegal actions taken by parents of sick children.

By all means, tell me what "RW comments" I have made. Talk about off base and uncalled for, just because my position is that the LAW should be enforced. Or do you think all laws are either Right Wing or Pro-Amnesty?


As far as looking bad... If the Democrats make any plans to give illegals government health care, the Democrats will lose a lot of public support for any health care plan. Simple fact. Once again, a Special Chic Interest group would love to screw it up for everyone else, because they demand everyone conform to their agenda. Back off! Corporate America is screwing it up without the Special Chic Interest group help.

[Hugabear]

39. Why can't you answer a simple question?

A 2-yr old child has a life-threatening illness, and will die without immediate proper medical treatment. Except the girl's parents are here illegally.

Would YOU condemn this child to death? Please answer the question, it's a rather simple one. And don't give me all this BS about "job markets, own country, blah blah blah". The child in this country is here NOW, and needs treatment NOW or will DIE. Yes this is a hypothetical case, but it's a case that many families in this country face in real life.

So what about it, you who love to speak in absolutes? Sentence a child to death?

[Kansas Wyatt]

46. Trying to make the Brigade?

The OP has already stated that many of these illegals have government health care in their own country.

Do NOT blame me for your fucking hypothetical, where the 2 year olds parents are fucking irresponsible and already denied their child health care in their own country!

Are you trying to say that this country is now suppose to be responsible for all the world's children, who need health care?

Keep it up, and you will NEVER see any government health care with that approach. Fuck the American citizen, and give illegals everything, huh? Very nice attitude to have and FAIL with miserably.

[Hugabear]

59. So for those who are ALREADY here - you would just let them DIE

Nice. Punish the children for the crimes of their parents.

There is no reasoning with someone who would allow a child to die because their parents happen to be living in the wrong place.

[Kansas Wyatt]

62. The OP has already admitted that their parents have better health care...

For them in their own country. Maybe you would like their parents charged with neglect too.

[Hugabear]

64. Except they are here NOW. What part of that can't you understand.

So you would look a parent in the eye, and tell them they have a choice of watching their child DIE or hauling their ass back to whatever country they came from.

Wow.

[Kansas Wyatt]

65. You trying to say the kid's parents are CRIMINALS...

For illegally entering and staying in the country?

No wonder you want the parents charged with neglect as well. At least you can see irresponsible and neglectful behavior in your hypothetical. Note... Getting your panties all bunched up won't make your hypothetical real.

[Hugabear]

67. What in the hell are you talking about?

1. I never said they were criminals. I believe that was you who said that.

2. I never said the parents should be charged with neglect.

3. It is NOT a hypothetical - there are millions of undocumented immigrants in this country, a large percentage of whom have children. And yes, children often need emergency medical treatment.

But I can see that arguing with you is about as effective as arguing with a right-winger.

[Kansas Wyatt]

69. You change your story too much.

Now you say illegal activity is NOT a crime, and parents denying medical care to their children should not be neglect. To top it off, you get all pissy with me and want to blame me for the illegal actions, criminal activity, and neglecting children. I have not done that... But you advocate for those who do. Guess it hasn't ever crossed your mind that when you choose to NOT follow laws, their are consequences that you then have to address. Government health care in their countries verses no health care here, but you are not happy that they already have government health care. You would rather rob health care from American citizens, so that illegal activity can be rewarded. As with amnesty a few years back, you will never get what YOU want, because the American people are going to say, Hell no. So you would rather blow up health care for American citizens, because the majority does not agree with you.

You may want to try using a little logic with your argument, because your illogical nonsense is ineffective. Oh, and your pathetic "right-winger" insult is a joke, since you are the one trying to drag down Democratic successes and health care for Americans with your Chic Special Interest.

[liberal N proud]

7. So they would rather just keep raising cost to cover the cost

of those who do not have medical insurance.

Status Quo!

[endarkenment]

10. we have the naifs and trolls posting that shit-meme here too. nt.

[leftstreet]

12. Raise your hand if you think the Dems are deliberately letting this fall apart

They're giving the Republicans the rope, as usual.

MIDTERMS!!!!11111

[abbeyco]

13. Bay is really just Pat in

rollers and makeup. Two pea brains borne out of the same racist pod.

[Xicano]

15. Ask the right wing if they will then stop robbing the wealth from

the countries these migrant workers are forced to leave as a result of?

[mamaleah]

19. If we have a national healthcare plan, I am sure there will be cards for it.

Just like in Canada.

In a real emergency (and no a cold is not that), the ER would take care of you, but if you don't have the healthcare plan card, you won;t get regular service.

That's a bad thing why?

[Kansas Wyatt]

26. Because some here believe in OPEN borders...

Where illegals get everything ahead of a U.S. citizen.

Then these same people wonder why so many working class voters vote against their alleged 'best interests' and against their candidate.

[wolfgangmo]

29. Name em.

I don't believe in open borders. How is this a part of the health care discussion.

Let's worry about illegals getting access to our system once we actually have one in place. Until then...

[Kansas Wyatt]

32. Look at the OP

I never claimed Republicans were NOT using it to whip up opposition to any government health care plan.

"Let's worry about illegals getting access to our system once we actually have one in place. Until then..." - And that is how the Republicans will successfully bring out a lot of opposition to a government health care plan. If the illegals have government health care in their own country, then the do NOT need it here, especially since they are here illegally.

Are Americans allowed to go to Canada and get free health care?

As far as naming anyone from the Taking Back Our Country Attack Brigade... Not hard to figure out.

[mamaleah]

34. I highly doubt anyone with any sort of brain in Congress would think

that an open borders with healthcare idea would be acceptable.

And you are correct. The right wing is already drumming up the "this will cost trillions" cry. Add to that "it'll cost you more because we gotta take care of illegal immigrants" and healthcare is dead in the water.

And let's be honest. If you have a real bona fide emergency in another country, yes they will take care of you. I have family in Canada so I know this. However I CANNOT walk into a regular clinic and get free service or a pap smear.

It is NOT unreasonable to say healthcare for citizens only.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

66. Yes, they have so many advantages over us.

:eyes:

[KamaAina]

31. What, exactly, is Bay Buchanan the co-chairman of, anyway?

:eyes:

[Romulox]

41. There is no country on earth that has open borders immigration and UHC

Pick one or the other; having both is not logically possible.

[mamaleah]

44. I hope you are suited up.

There was a thread in GD week or so ago that simply asked "Why can't we have a HC system like the one in France".

I pointed out that France has very restrictive immigration policies. I was asked what that had to do with HC. Many people do not understand you cannot have a system in place to serve your citizens and the rest of the damn world.

[pampango]

49. I believe that Canada has generous immigration policies and a good HC system.

Years ago I knew someone who immigrated there and their health was one of the criteria that Canada looked at. I'm sure they don't want really ill people immigrating there just for the HC.

I missed the thread last week. I think France's immigration policies are more restrictive than Canada's, but I don't think their HC system is better.

[mamaleah]

53. We have family in Canada

mostly in Vancouver and a few stragglers in Victoria.

They do not have "loose" immigration policies by any means, but you are correct that they are not as restrictive as European policies.
Immigration to Canada can be sought by a number of ways - work permits, marriage, etc. There is a point system in place that covers language, education, and other relevant factors.

Again, if you are injured while in Canada, you can seek medical help and they will help you. However you cannot go to a doctor and get a physical just because you are hanging out and think you should get one. You have to pay if you want that. As well you should.

[Romulox]

60. Nope. You must prove you can support yourself in Canada, and if you're old enough

you must prove you can pay for private healthcare.

Canada's immigration policies are much more strict than the US' in letter, and especially in practice.

http://207.219.111.92/requirements/steps1.aspx

[pampango]

68. Perhaps things have changes. The lady I knew immigrated to Canada in the 1980's was in her 60's

and was retired with a Filipino school teacher's pension (not much by our standards). She had to furnish a lot of medical information and pass medical tests, but didn't have the financial to support herself without working once she got to Canada. Things must have changed a lot since then.

You may be more familiar with the letter of immigration law in Canada and the US.

"In 2001, 250,640 people immigrated to Canada."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Canada

"Since 2000, legal immigrants to the United States number approximately 1,000,000 per year..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States#Contemporary_immigration

While the US admits 4 times as many legal immigrants as Canada, we have 10 times the population, so on a relative basis they are more open to legal immigration than we are.

If you have other figures or a different take on these, I'd be interested to know.

[pampango]

58. Wow! Looks like the RW's strategy to focus on "illegals" to defeat HC reform is working.

Looking at the posts here, I'd say the RW has struck on a great wedge issue to use to defeat HC reform. The strong emotions surrounding illegal immigration were used successfully in 2007 to defeat immigration reform, but it is surprising to me that it has the potential to defeat health care reform in 2009, too.

Makes me think that a smart conservative politician, faced with deciding how to oppose some progressive public policy change, should figure out a way to portray this policy as a boon for illegal immigrants. Whether such immigrants are a significant aspect of the policy in question or not, the emotions involved with the charge that the new policy would benefit "illegals", may be enough to defeat it.

[pinto]

63. What an utter crock of crap. Sometimes I think we ought to stop countering this hyperbolic fear

mongering and let them run off the cliff with it. Yet, I know it plays well to their base, as shrinking as it may be.