Sgt. Crowley lied in police report, fabricated conversation with caller

[goodhue]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/gates.arrest/

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. KICK!

[BumRushDaShow]

2. Complete fabrication

Not only fabricated conversation with caller but fabrication of what she said.

And this isn't "racial profiling"? :shrug:

[EFerrari]

19. He was trying to justify his arrest. What a manipulative little jerk.

[BumRushDaShow]

24. He might have gotten away with it too

if he hadn't stood up with the rest of his ilk and demanded an "apology". :eyes:

[Hissyspit]

152. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Stupid.

Actually, calling this guy stupid is showing restraint.

[EFerrari]

188. Yep. He must have been in a panic or something

once he understood in that reptilian brain of his how badly he'd screwed up.

[downindixie]

264. Here is a prior statement from professor Gates

"As always, whitey now sits in judgment of me, preparing to cast my fate. It is your decision either to let me blow with the wind as a nonentity or to encourage the development of self. Allow me to prove myself."
Professor Gates

[tabasco]

301. First of all, WTF does that have to do with anything?

Second of all, you didn't provide a link.

I'm sure you're absolutely poutraged.

[BumRushDaShow]

352. It's something that those who know they are wrong

are wont to blurt out when they have nothing else left to try to justify the criminality of this cop and his false report. The quote was supposedly something from 40 years ago written by a teenaged Gates when he applied to Yale (essay).

When confronted with true racism, the rats are backed into the corner and hurl all sorts of nonsense like this.

[kikiek]

319. I like that. Very profound. He is one of the most intelligent people of our time, if not the most.

What a brilliant statement of race in America. Thanks for sharing. Prof Gates makes me proud to be an American.

[DeSwiss]

359. ....

Welcome to Ignore

[Hissyspit]

362. Mind providing some fucking context for that?

He wrote it years and years ago IN 1969 speaking to academics and school administrators and you've taken it completely out of context, just like the right-wingers do.

[Name removed]

461. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geckosfeet]

368. Bwaaahhhaaaa haaaaaa. Oh yea. Good one. Whitey! Ohh haaa haaa.

I would say 'nice try', but that was a sorry ass lame attempt at mud slinging.

[Name removed]

460. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

380. Looks like the negro is winning. I'd lock up your women right fucking now.

:hi:

[unapatriciated]

459. .

:rofl:

[lexanman]

432. uh, he was sitting in front of "whitey"

wasn't no uppity blacks on that committie. He was proven right though. a few decades later a lying racist white cop arrested him for "yelling". Kind of proves his point, unless you are trying to cover for a racist white cop, which as you know, well they don't nor have they ever existed. I dont think I need the sarcasm tag

[SemperEadem]

453. non sequitur

that has nothing to do with the current discussion. Nice try with the obfuscation and distraction. It wont' work. Crowley is stupid and he did a stupid thing. Case closed.

[RaleighNCDUer]

456. It's time to crawl back under your bridge for another 5 years. nt

[Proud Liberal Dem]

3. If he lied and fabricated then the question must be asked:

Did he act stupidly or not????

[Bluerthanblue]

142. oh...stop....

:rofl:

[Iggo]

4. Cops lie in reports?

The HELL you say!

[WolverineDG]

27. No kidding

:cue up line from Casablanca:

dg

[mix]

31. ..

[DearAbby]

252. A Cop would Never lie in a report...

There are some real great cops out there, then there are pricks with badges, who have the authority to "win" all arguments...so they think.

[mopinko]

438. the job is a prick magnet

as you say, some great ones. in my travels, they are few. and mostly they are the female ones.

[jhrobbins]

430. Well, I'm sorry-I just don't believe it because we here in Texas have been

(rightly apparently)schooled that this doesn't happen in the North-only in the venal and backward South , so something must be wrong. It just can't be that a Mass. cop could do such a thing. Nothing makes sense in my world anymore.

[mix]

5. He lied.

Gates was right, there was a whole narrative dancing around inside Crowley's head. Hell yes it's about rights.

[VMI Dem]

6. Rec.

[midnight]

7. Is it unusual that a crime informant needs to get legal representation?

Attorney Wendy Murphy, who represents Whalen, also categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

[goodhue]

16. She wants to clear name, let people know she's not "white"

Speaking to CNN by phone, Murphy said she was trying to clear Whalen's name after she's come under attack by bloggers and in chat rooms, accused of racial profiling when she first called police.

She said Whalen is "devastated" by such characterizations because she is sensitive about such issues because of her own complexion. Whalen worked down the street and was on her lunch break when she called police.

"She just wants to clear her name. She doesn't want to create more controversy," Murphy said. "She falls outside the plain lines of race, and I think she wanted people to know that."

[WolverineDG]

29. No good deed goes unpunished nt

[valerief]

139. You can say that again. nt

[RobinA]

65. Crazy

Is Gates not black? So, in fact, somebody looking at him trying to get into his house would accuratly report that they saw a black man trying to break into the house if that is what it looked like he was doing. This story is so out of control.

Next thing you know somebody calling the police saying there is a white guy trying to break into the house will be accused of being a racist because they felt the need to ID the guy as white in case somebody were to naturally (and racistly) assume the perp was black. Sheesh.

[merh]

76. Are you even following the facts.

In her call to the police Whalen did not identify two black guys on the scene.

Here is the link to the 911 call.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x343394

The 911 transcript/tape proves she is correct on that point.

She also said she never spoke to Crowley to tell him about two black men, as he wrote in his report. So Crowley appears to have created facts (like the public that was disturbed).

[EFerrari]

83. Crowley also identifies her as a white woman, doesn't he? Oops.

:rofl:

[merh]

87. LOL, the man should have just shut up and apologized.

x(

[EFerrari]

90. No kidding. He has a young family. What an idiot.

What part of, I'm sorry, I was wrong, is worth all of this?

[merh]

103. Apparently, the commish isn't as staunch a supporter of

Crowley as he was over the weekend.

Police Commissioner Robert Haas told reporters at a news conference Monday that the 911 tape and police transmission from that day "speak for themselves, and I would ask that you form your own opinion." He added that police always ask themselves: "If I had to do it over again, what would I have done differently?"

[EFerrari]

104. I'm sorry that I'm enjoying this so much.

:evilgrin:

[merh]

110. The cops will do what it takes to cover up their mistakes, often they

will tell lies and quite often, when they attack the person they arrested, they do so to take the heat of themselves.

Jesse Williams was supposed to have been high on drugs, pcp or crack or meth, the night they tortured and beat him to death. That is what the deputies told the Sheriff and what the Sheriff told the man's family and the press.

Turns out, he had no drugs in his system and there was video of the beating. It took us months to get video, we had suspicions and scared others, but we needed solid proof.

The video provided the proof.

[EFerrari]

113. Oh, yeah. I get it. That's a lot of power and a lot of trauma, it's going to happen.

[lxlxlxl]

343. the queens arrest when cops made up shit before the tape came out, an old hispanic man

beat to death in jail...http://www.correctionsone.com/news/1842780-Jury-acquits-2-officers-in-Texas-inmate-beating/

[Seldona]

416. Pretty much.

That 'Thin Blue Line' or whatever the hell they call it. I believe it is really more of a wall than a line.

[shaniqua6392]

435. The video in the jail cell where they killed my brother in law

was conveniently "broken" when he was beaten to death and died choking on his own vomit. Dare I say that not all cops are heroes??? Some of them are murderers with badges and guns.

[merh]

443. my condolences

what a horrible way to loose someone and your trust.

[shaniqua6392]

449. Thank you.

It has forever changed our whole family.

[merh]

452. I can imagine it has.

cyber hug and prayers

:hug:

[JitterbugPerfume]

161. Im lovin'it

:hi:

[EFerrari]

173. Oh, man. They told the president to apologize!

Oh, man.

:hi:

[lexanman]

253. I agree to a point

Im not so much enjoying it as I want these fascist racist cops to have the light shine down upon them and for their asses to be sued off, in addition to the thinly veiled pseudo progressives that are on this fine website, who come off as this short of outright racism. That they are tolerated on a progressive board is beyond me.


I hope all who read these threads questions cops at every turn and support citizen review boards with the ability to fire and investigate.
THAT is what is needed.

[Confusious]

307. Should you be the judge, jury and executioner

When we find those racist in our midst?

[lexanman]

310. of course not

they should be alerted and let the admin decide that. That is, unless you agree that thinly veiled racists should be able to post like anybody else. What are you implying?

[Confusious]

312. I was implying,

and now am saying that from your post, I think you're a little extreme, and I wouldn't trust your judgment on who and who is not a racist.

edit: used reactionary the wrong way.

[lexanman]

317. think of me what you will

the admin will decide what they think racism.

[Confusious]

321. Is that some sort of threat?

[lexanman]

330. alerting admin about a racist post is a threat?

you agree with racism?

[MUAD_DIB]

369. What's comical is that two days ago the reactionary crowd was

painting the witness as a racist.

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

385. Blame Jim Crowley. He wrote the report. He wanted it that way.

I bet this lady thinks that was very comical.

[MUAD_DIB]

398. Which doesn't change the fact that a few days ago the witness was being

portrayed as a possible racist and that DUers were jumping to conclusions.


Jump away, folks. :rofl:

[EFerrari]

420. And you continue to shift the blame away from him. Hilarious. n/t

[lexanman]

433. When the racist cop wrote a false report

saying the "white" 911 caller saw two black men with backpacks were forcing their way into the home, its kinda hard not to question the witness. Turns out it wasnt what the witness said, but what the racist lying cop wrote about what she said. You kinda miss that point, but I think you alreay know that.

Speaks volumes about continuing to cover for a lying racist cop. You also still support Killion saying Obama is disgraceful as C in C, or are you ok with that too. How about Obama apologizing to every police force in America on behalf of a lying racist cop? You ok with that too?

[Confusious]

306. Yea, He should get a fair trial

before his hangin'

Did you, and some of the other people here think that maybe the dispatcher said "two black men?"

I know the police officer was wrong, gates showed his ID.

What if it was a big whig white man and this much had been made out of it and the cop knew he screwed up?

He'd try to cover his ass. I would try to cover my ass.

It seems to me this has become "he didn't tell the whole truth, or covered his ass, so he's a racist.

I think a little to much testosterone was involved. Cops always have a little to much.


Is my ass going to be splattered like this one day on the alter of anti-racism?

[lexanman]

315. The dispatcher would have patched through the information

they received from the caller to the cop. Now why would a dispatcher all of a sudden say "two black men", when nothing of the sort was said by the caller Whalen?


You are correct, the cop tried to cover for his ass. He lied in his report, unless you suggest the cop also forgot to verify with the dispatcher when he wrote the report. That could also have happened too. I suppose for the sake of argument. Maybe Crowley got abducted and the alien really wrote the report to frame him. That is a possibility too.

You should let the admin of this board decide your last statement. Only time will tell.

[Confusious]

320. Well maybe the dispatcher is human also.

Maybe we're all human an we make mistakes, and sometimes, its not racism.

[lexanman]

334. perhaps the dispatchers were the racist ones

and the cop was being set up by the dispatchers. That is a possibility too I suppose. But the the cop would also have to forget to verify with them when he wrote his report. Im trying hard to spin and twist too. It is not easy, I'll tell you.

[Confusious]

I'm just asking questions

I don't like crucifying people without ALL the facts in hand.

If he is a bad cop, up he goes. I'll hammer in the nails.

[Spazito]

345. The dispatcher did NOT say "two black men", the dispatcher did say...

"unknown on race, one may be Hispanic, we are not sure."

Link to calls:

http://thepoliticalcarnival.blogspot.com/2009/07/videos-cambridge-911-call-excerpts.html

[Grinchie]

378. I'd rather not invade a country due to a Mistake..

The Cops, the Military and the Government have the ability to fuck up your life for good. I'd rather they not make "Mistakes" because they are not an individual, but an entity that WE give power to. We must have the ability to hold these rogue individuals, Organizations, and Government official accountable, otherwise, we are nothing more than slaves to the system that we slavishly conform to in every respect out of fear.

Nothing forces people to make mistakes. They do so of their own free will, ignorance and impatience. If the Cops are unable to do their job without supervision, then we must enforce real supervision in order to stop mistakes from occurring in the first place.

[Confusious]

322. Is that some sort of threat?

[lexanman]

336. didn't you just ask the same thing before

in response to another part of the thread? Do you support not alerting admin about racist posts?

[Confusious]

347. I support telling the admins about troll posts

but from your previous post, I got the feeling you'd report anyone who didn't agree with you as a racist.

[lexanman]

351. disagreeing about a subject

is not racist. A racist post is racist.

[MUAD_DIB]

370. Careful, sweetie, your bias is showing.

[NoSheep]

425. I sure as hell hope so..that your ass will be splattered because of your racism.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

329. Apologize for what? Obama says he's an outstanding officer and he gets to visit the WH.

[LiberalFighter]

123. Hmmm how could Crowley identify her as a while woman when they didn't talk to each other? nt

[LiberalFighter]

122. And if he created one set of facts what is the likelihood that he created other facts?

And not just in that particular incident.

[merh]

133. Precisely.

[spag68]

406. Crowley

It's not just that he lied in this case, but how many other cases has he lied?

[polmaven]

436. I'm going to take

a small amount of exception here.....Her attorney said she BARELY spoke to Crowley...not NEVER. I still am not convinced we know all of the facts here, so I am going to stick to my conviction that there is plenty of blame on BOTH sides in this matter.

[merh]

446. When you stick to that conviction you miss something very important.

Gates was just a citizen.

Crowley is the professional who is trained on how to handle situations like this and who trains others to handle them. He is paid to handle these situations and he took an oath to comply with the law and to protect the rights of the citizens.

So Crowley had a higher duty than Gates, hell, he had a duty to Gates.

[Spazito]

451. Well said! n/t

[goodhue]

77. She did not know whether they were white, black or hispanic

Nothing crazy about it.

[mix]

120. No, this story is in fact under control. Crowley lied.

[NOLALady]

140. She didn't notice if Gates was black.

In the call, Lucia Whalen reports seeing "two larger men, one looked kind of Hispanic, but I'm not really sure, and the other one entered, and I didn't see what he looked like at all."

[EFerrari]

146. She was a great witness because she was careful.

She only saw them from the back.

[Karenina]

182. Pod poster...

:silly:

[SemperEadem]

454. try keeping up with the story instead of what the voices in your head are telling you, would ya?

to successfuly hide something from you, all one has to do is write it down.

[Brother Buzz]

30. I suspect the attorney, Wendy Murphy, was hired to be a spokespersons

I sure as heck would not approach a microphone or camera and subject myself to a media blitz. I would leave it to a professional, and I suspect Lucia Whalen did the same.

[Lerkfish]

39. Not if she knows a cop is bearing false witness against her. I"d get a lawyer, too,

in that case.

[tj2001]

54. Knowing how the gang members - ahem the cops - I mean the police union - operate

that was a wise move.

[Kber]

354. Bearing false witness and willing to falsely arrest someone who gets "lippy"

Probably a smart move on her part, really

[Kber]

355. Bearing false witness and willing to falsely arrest someone who gets "lippy"

Probably a smart move on her part, really

[H2O Man]

101. No.

Lots of people have lawyers.

[Lerkfish]

450. hey, waterman, howzit goin?

nice to see you.

[jpak]

8. He was provoked by an uppity black man that gave him "attitude" - give him a break!!11

:sarcasm:

[BumRushDaShow]

9. "Contempt of cop" n/t

[jpak]

13. "living peaceably in your own home while black"

go to jail

go directly to jail

[BumRushDaShow]

22. LOL

:rofl:

[Spazito]

10. This is going from bad to worse for Sgt. Crowley, imo...

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."


Boom! How can the Cambridge Police make THIS go away? By calling the woman a liar? Don't think so.

[mix]

12. How can Obama host Crowley after this revelation?

The premise that these are "two decent people" is no longer tenable.

[Spazito]

20. I still think it is a good thing for President Obama to go through with...

his offer. Getting Professor Gates and Officer Crowley together in a non-confrontational setting might lead to a REAL 'teachable moment' especially, imo, for Officer Crowley given what we now know.

With this revelation, I wondered more whether Professor Gates would re-consider his acceptance, I suspect he will not and he will still meet with Sgt. Crowley and President Obama.

[mix]

23. I agree.

It probably is better that it goes forward, as long as this revelation is a major subtext of the meeting. I too wonder about Gates' reconsidering...this is devastating news.

[LiberalFighter]

127. I think the police chief and mayor needs to be invited too at this point.

And Obama should invite his own DOJ people.

[Spazito]

141. I think the invite as originally given should remain as such ...

It is up to the State of Massachusetts and the city of Cambridge to address the issues raised as a result of this incident. Were President Obama to involve himself beyond the friendly invite he would certainly open the door for accusations of inappropriate interference and, imo, they would not be without merit.

[awnobles]

149. Yes,

...Yes they should.

[Patchuli]

411. I would hope that the police officer is mature

and offers Professor Gates an apology and that we all then let it gooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Edit to add: I am glad that this is shining a big bright spotlight on attitudes in this country regarding diversity. It's painful but maybe this a teaching experience. Once again, I am proud to see that my President is a grown-up.

[BlooInBloo]

32. Because you have a beer with the cops you have, not the cops you wish you had.

[mix]

33. Why is that always so?

[NAO]

66. Red-Rum-sfeld Redux -nt

[Proud Liberal Dem]

158. ...................

:spray: :rofl:

[opihimoimoi]

11. OH OH....why would he intentionally lie/deceive/distort? on the record too.? me smells something

[LiberalFighter]

130. That fact will make it more difficult for that officer to be a witness in a court.

Can you imagine the defense asking the officer if he has ever lied in a report?

[opihimoimoi]

338. Bully types often lose credibility by lying their asses off.

[datasuspect]

14. that's just not possible!

cops don't lie in reports!

[EFerrari]

15. HA! Our model officer, expert in race relations, LYING HIS ASS OFF?

Tell me it's not true.

[tblue37]

248. And specifically lying his ass off about supposed *black* suspects. nt

[L0oniX]

17. Cops lie??? Whodathunkit

[BlooInBloo]

21. Color me shocked.

[JitterbugPerfume]

163. But But But

They serve and

protect us from scary intellectuals like Prof Gates and we should always respect their authori-TAH no matter what our lying eyes tell us:evilgrin:

[Fire1]

56. Ditto. n/t

[bkkyosemite]

18. This guy lied no beer for him

[Lance_Boyle]

26. give him the beer

but don't tell him about the iocaine powder. ;-)

[juno jones]

323. Ipecac is good enuf...

;)

[Orsino]

254. I was just thinking that this is twice now...

...that President Obama has acted a bit prematurely--first in using the word "stupidly" before the facts were in, and second, in inviting the police officer to tea before the basics of his story checked out.

I guess I'm still glad that da prez is trying to build so many bridges.

[goclark]

342. "stupidly" makes the meeting even better

IMO.

Now that all the MSM has talked night and day about the President's rush to blame and the Police so perfect.... Obama is holding the cards now more than before.

Let's get this "teachable moment" started.

When is it?

PS/ I heard some "MSM" person say today that "Obama should not serve Beer because that would not be appropriate."

Yesterday I heard that when President Obama got in touch with the officer, the OFFICER was having a BEER. Thus, President Obama said something like, " I'm inviting you over to my house to share "a beer and talk about the events."

What is the status of the Beer Invite?

[unapatriciated]

447. I heard on the news today that it would be Thursday

and that Gates preferred Red Stripe
Crowley enjoyed Blue Moon
While the Presidents beer of choice is Budweiser.

[VMI Dem]

25. Yoo hoo, racist cop defenders?

How can this be?

[EFerrari]

51. He was just doing his job! He risked his life for you writing that false report!

[tj2001]

63. Typical creative writing taught at every police academy

Looks like Crowley got a good grade in that class

[Hutzpa]

79. Don't forget he is the profiling master

no one does it better than he can.... :evilgrin:

[Enrique]

166. that was true before we knew about this

actually it's true now, we don't know what really happened. It sure does change things.

[EFerrari]

181. That's what I've been hearing for days now. We don't know what really happened.

You know, yes we do. We have multiple sources of hard information.

This lying asshole arrested Skip Gates for being jet lagged in his own home and then lied on his incident report when he figured out how badly he fucked up.

That's what happened. Oh, and the icing is, knowing he lied, he allowed his union, his fellow cops and his police commissioner to go out on a limb and support him, even to the point of asking for an apology from Obama who got it right.

Don't defend this @sshole. Maybe when his ass is fired, he'll learn something about himself.

[Enrique]

187. why not defend him?

what bad thing will happen if I hold off judgement?

I happen to agree with all your speculations. But I don't see one bit of good in pretending that I know them for a fact.

My ignorance of the facts is very real and so is yours, there is no point in denying that ignorance.

[EFerrari]

189. Ignorance isn't the same as not knowing ALL the facts.

And I think you know that.

[bobbolink]

201. Fired? A cop???? Why, that's not 'Murkin!

[Name removed]

349. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[malaise]

28. Oh My!!

K & R

[democracy1st]

34. i think i'l let the pres take care of this bs over a bud

[imdjh]

35. So now we still need to know how Crowley knew that the driver was black? Or was he?

After all, if Lucia Whalen can go from being a white women to being a woman of color with the issue of a statement from her attorney, perhaps she can turn the driver into something which conforms with her new version of events.

[EFerrari]

41. She didn't write the police report so this isn't her "new" version but nice try.

[Lerkfish]

43. way to miss the point completely

[imdjh]

60. I'll just wait for tomorrow's installment.

[Fumesucker]

109. I rather suspect that you won't like tomorrow's episode any better..

The skein of lies wrapped around this case is starting to unravel and I don't think it's going to make the cops look good.

[imdjh]

115. On the other hand, Lucia Whalen works for Harvard

As long as we're spinning fantasies, let's imagine the shit hitting the fan when it gets out that Lucia Whalen and her attorney have been in a war council with Gates and others at Harvard to wage Gowns vs Towns.

[goodhue]

116. fantastic

eom

[tblue37]

251. goodhue, you should put "eom" (or "nt") only in the subject

line, not in the message box, because the point of "eom" (and "nt") is to let the reader know the subject line is all there is, so there is no reason to waste their time clicking on the post to read the message.

[goodhue]

267. good advice, thanks. nt

[tblue37]

309. You're welcome. I remember a few years ago when I had to

ask my son what that "eom" and "nt" stuff was that I kept seeing. I am almost 59, so I am always lagging behind about these intertubes things. (For example, I just learned yesterday what a "1" comment means, after having seen them all over the places and wondering for weeks.)

[EFerrari]

121. Right. Then how did she turn up white in that police report?

She didn't write it and she's not white. Maybe she hypnotized Crowley from afar and forced him to write that.

[Fumesucker]

135. With a name like Lucia Whalen she just *sounds* white..

We melanin challenged know our own.. :)

[EFerrari]

137. LOL. Or maybe throwing in a white woman in distress just fits better?

So schlocky, really.

:hi:

[noiretextatique]

167. i hear latinas can do that

according to pat buchannan :rofl:

[Pavulon]

255. I bet my pinki here drivers license and loan applications say "WHITE"

Portuguese womens association..

[Mojorabbit]

408. I am half Portuguese

and wondered at the first name Lucia....

[spiritual_gunfighter]

153. Yes its a racist conspiracy!!!!!!!! n/t

[tabasco]

311. Keep telling yourself that,

idiot.

[frylock]

377. have you figured out how lucia whalen managed to doctor the 911 tapes?

or are you just pulling shit from out your ass? you might want to refrain from posting any further on the topic until you receive the next set of talking points from the apologists errrrrr... formulate an opinion based on facts.

[timeforpeace]

124. Good idea. Narratives shift so fast and so far.

[EFerrari]

132. But the RACE of witnesses don't change and Crowley wrote in his report

that this non-white witness was white. Maybe he needs to write a sequel.

[StatGirl]

143. The driver probably was not black . . .

. . . Gates said in an interview that he thought the driver might have been Moroccan.

[imdjh]

151. might or might not

here are some Moroccans








?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=DA47DE60F65EF459F4504518423FD42AEC7C5022FB410D56

[noiretextatique]

165. are you being intentionally obtuse?

crowley says he spoke to her at the scene in his police report...she denies speaking to him at the scene. her story hasn't changed...his story, however, is in question.

[fishwax]

388. what do you mean "her new version"?

Can you point us to her old version? :shrug:

[Lerkfish]

36. LOL! well, that figures.

[goodhue]

37. NYT finally has story but completely ignores police report fabrication

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/us/28cambridge.html?hp

Ms. Whalen did not mention the race of the men she saw until pressed by the dispatcher to describe them. At that point, she said one of the men may have been Hispanic and that she could not describe the other.

Ms. Whalen was vilified by some bloggers and other commentators last week after it was incorrectly reported that she reported two black men trying to break into a home.

[goodhue]

40. "incorrectly reported"

by whom? to whom?

[lexanman]

434. incorrectly reported is a nice way

of saying the cop fucking lied in his report. As in the cop reported falsely(lied). Doesn't suprise me the NYT would leave that out. By whom and to whom indeed.

[goodhue]

440. it seems the false report will not be reported at all

nothing to see here

[goodhue]

57. Actually an AP story

eom

[LiberalFighter]

134. We really need a database of AP reporters to identify questionable reporting. nt

[RobinA]

70. I Don't Understand This

Isn't Gates black? So how would it be inaccurate for her to report that two black (assuming the driver is black) men were trying to break into the house? She was wrong about them trying to break in, not their race. And they were trying to get through a stuck door, which, in my experience, can look pretty much like trying to break in.

[goodhue]

74. She did not know their race, she did not see their face, she saw their suitcase

She told 911 that they may not be breaking in as they may in fact be residents.
When pressed she said one of them might be Hispanic.

[These Eyes]

168. The issue here is not what Lucia reported, but what Crowley said she reported…

She couldn't give and accurate description and said one of the two men may be Hispanic. The officer's report said that it was reported two black men with backpacks trying to force their way inside of the house. That's not what Lucia reported. Crowley goes on to report that he spoke with the witness (Lucia) and that she again describes black men. She didn't speak to the officer at the scene.

Summary: Crowley lied. He embellished his report to justify his actions at the scene. He created a "profile" of what the suspects should look like to make it believable that he did was justifiable.

[tj2001]

38. Outstanding officer to be honored by White House

WTF

[CakeGrrl]

112. Thankfully it wasn't presented that way, but it's still going to put Crowley in

a sticky spot. As he richly deserves.

[donheld]

401. What do you bet he's a no show?

[TexasObserver]

42. Yes, he's busted for lying.

[fascisthunter]

44. we knew that...

[zonkers]

45. What a dumb, lying POS. Totally busted. I knew when the unions and his dept. started circling the

wagons, he was full of shit.

[zonkers]

47. Gates should have a beer at the WH and then sue the cop. That's a teachable moment.

[EFerrari]

50. That's as close as Crowley is going to get to a classroom any time soon. n/t

[mix]

75. lol

[EFerrari]

49. I knew when he arrested Skip Gates, he was full of shit.

Gates has no history of making an ass out of himself in public and he's 58. Unless he gets some kind of dementia, that's not going to change.

[zonkers]

52. Ooh, I bet Crowley's blood was just boiling when he said "Go get your mama" Crowley's toast.

[EFerrari]

58. This is going to feel good; GATES WAS RIGHT. HE IS A RACIST ROGUE COP.

:)

[MrsBrady]

423. if this was in a different context...

my gut reaction in a professor vs cop interaction would be to believe a professor anyway.

Someone pointed out the other day, that the officer was at WORK and Gates was at HOME.
The officer is supposed to be able to do a job without arresting someone, just because they get a bug up their but.
Even if Gates did yell, yelling in your own home does not constitute a crime.
Cop should have just left the moment he knew the man was in his own home.

Also, I even know who Gates is, and I'm a nobody living in a Texas suburb.
You mean to tell me the cops there don't know the profs? BS.

Rogue is right.

[EFerrari]

426. Dr. Gates pegged this guy immediately, jet lagged as he was.

And even so, people have called him every name in the book for days.

Well, I bet *he's* not surprised by any of this.

[MrsBrady]

439. it's not like we want cops to lie

but somehow the power? goes to their head.
But we didn't choose or ask for him to be an a-hole.

I was afraid something like this would come out.
The man just seemed too smug to me, in the tapes I've seen of him.

[tblue37]

256. Yeah--Gates says he *never* said anything about "your mama," which

Crowley claims he did. Whom are we likely to believe about this point now? Let's see, who is now on record as defintely having lied already about the incident?

[zonkers]

268. Crowley screwed over his fellow cops by lying. I am sure they feel great about being judged by his

actions.

[mix]

82. no kidding...

Set aside the cop's racial framing of the incident and his mendacity in the report, Crowley just seems like an incompetent cop, unable to read the social world around him. Full of shit in other words.

[LiberalFighter]

138. That police organization should not be considered a union.

They should be considered a "Band of Brothers" as I believe they think of themselves. And that they will protect themselves at all costs.

[BlooInBloo]

46. One wonders what other parts of the police report are false.

[Solomon]

249. Ahh yes. Notice how everyone is so quick to go with the

angry black man thing. That Gates just tee'd off right from the get go. That bothered the hell out if me. It was a given that Gates gave him hell.

Now why should we believe that part of the report? But everybody does.

[tblue37]

258. I bet Crowley lied about Gates saying, "I'll talk to your mama outside."

Gates says he never said such a thing; Crowley insists he did. I bet Crowley is lying to make Gates sound like his own stereotype of what an angry Black man would say.

[Forkboy]

Just the written parts.

[WillyT]

48. Big K & R !!!

:kick:

[AspenRose]

53. Hmm. Well would you look at that.

Hmmm. Michael Vick may be playing ball again....

Wonder if that jerk in Congress will change his mind about the resolution to make Obama apologize now.

[SuperTrouper]

55. So...Meet Joe The Cop. The GOP and their racist fans must love Joe the COp nt

[Better Believe It]

59. No hard facts at all.on what was said on the porch. Just more he said, she said stuff

Let Gates and the cop have their beer at the White House.

Everything will be OK.

Kind of making a mountain out of a mole hill here, aren't we?

[goodhue]

67. there's gold in them there hills

Crowley's police report said:
"As I reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified as Lucia Whalen. Whalen, who was standing on the sidewalk in front of the residence held a wireless telephone in her hand and told me that it was she who called. She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street. She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry. Since I was the only police officer on location and had my back to the front door as I spoke with her, I asked that she wait for other responding officers while I investigated further."
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

But that's not what happened according to Whalen's attorney:
Attorney Wendy Murphy, who represents Whalen, also categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."

She added, "I'm not sure what the police explanation will be. Frankly, I don't care. Her only goal is to make it clear she never described them as black. She never saw their race. ... All she reported was behavior, not skin color."

Calls to the Cambridge Police Department about the issue have not been returned. Police Commissioner Robert Haas told reporters at a news conference Monday that the 911 tape and police transmission from that day "speak for themselves, and I would ask that you form your own opinion." He added that police always ask themselves: "If I had to do it over again, what would I have done differently?"

"This matter is not resolved," Haas said. "We have a long way to go. We recognize that we are going to take advantage of the situation and we're going to learn from it. We're going to move forward."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/gates.arrest/

[tblue37]

262. Boy, Crowley sure goes into a lot of detail:

his back to the door as he talked to the "white" woman; the cell phone in her hand; her calling out to him to get his attention as he approached the house.

The more fabricated details he included, the more ridiculous he ends up looking.

Someone must have smacked that fella upside the head with a good-sized idiot stick.

[EFerrari]

72. He wrote her up as a white woman because he didn't meet her. She's not white.

lol

[mix]

96. Gates sized Crowley up perfectly.

[EFerrari]

97. Yes, he did.

:)

[Ikonoklast]

89. He's a Goddamn liar.

Lied on an official police report, he's also a criminal now.

And you apologize for him.

Nothing to see here, right?

Better believe it.

[Hutzpa]

92. lol

:rofl:

[tabasco]

316. If I lie to police during an investigation, I get arrested.

That would be a big deal to me.

[Spazito]

61. I noted Ms. Whalen, through her lawyer, specified she did NOT talk to Sgt. Crowley and then..

went on to say:

"And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.'

Upon reading "And she never said to any police officer.." the wording struck me as saying she had spoken to an officer but not Sgt. Crowley. I then remembered the second officer on scene, Officer Figueroa, had also filed an official police report where he named Ms. Whalen so I read his report again and this is what it said:

"I stepped outside to gather the information from the reporting person, WHALEN, LUCIA. Ms. Whalen stated to me that she saw a man wedging his shoulder into the front door as to pry it open."

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

(scroll down to page three)

It looks like Ms. Whalen did speak to an officer but NOT Sgt. Crowley and, in speaking to Officer Figueroa, NEVER referred to race at all.

Kudos to Ms. Whalen, she believes in standing up for the truth!

[goodhue]

68. yes, very good point

eom

[Hutzpa]

100. hmmm.....

that would explain why officer Figueroa was mysteriously missing from the press conference
by them giving a fucked up excuse he was home baby sitting.....the officer whom the
witness spoke to was home baby sitting??? now it makes sense.

[NAO]

62. Link to (lightly redacted) copy of Crowley's Police Report

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

He explicitly states he talked to her TWICE: when he first approached the house AND as part of the wrap up.

I wonder if anyone else can corroborate either Gates' version or her version of the narrative.

[Spazito]

71. Actually, page 3 is a report from a second officer on scene..

Officer Figueroa. It is interesting to note that in Officer Figueroa's report upon speaking to Ms. Whalen it is clear she stated "a man" and did not identify any race at all. That seems to back up what Ms. Whalen's lawyer has said.

[Eric68601]

85. From that link

Did anyone notice the discrepancy on page 2 of that?

On the second paragraph, he says he radioed in his findings to ECC, and in the 3rd paragraph he says that he told Gates to step outside because he couldn't communicate with the loud noise around him..

So which is it? He could, or couldn't communicate with ECC?

[Spazito]

105. Good question...

I just listened to the released ECC tape and at no time is there loud noises interfering such that Sgt. Crowley is not heard.

[EFerrari]

107. He tried to Gates out on the porch since the beginning of the contact. n/t

[mix]

131. Crowley's lie--that Whalen was white--would make a third party

corroboration here less significant.

[BlueIdaho]

64. Now THAT'S an incovenient truth! nt.

[hfojvt]

69. actually he is being contradicted by somebody

Not the same as having been proven to have lied, even though the person contradicting him is certainly in a position to know.

However, that part of the report should have stood out as not making sense. It said he was on the porch and a woman called to him from the street (or sidewalk) and she told him some things. Was she shouting them or did he go back down off the porch to talk with her? Or did she come up to the porch steps? Those details are left out.

But making up a conversation with a witness does not make sense either. He already had a radio report from dispatch of a possible burglary, why does he need to talk to the person that made the call in order to investigate?

The sad thing here is that defenders of Gates have spilled from defending Gates to attacking Crowley and also attacking Whalen to the point where she feels the need to defend herself publicly.

[EFerrari]

73. And under that pressure, the truth is coming out. nt

[Spazito]

86. Officer Figueroa, the second officer on scene did, according to his...

official police report, interview Ms. Whalen and reported the following:

"I stepped outside to gather the information from the reporting person, WHALEN, LUCIA. Ms. Whalen stated to me that she saw a man wedging his shoulder into the front door as to pry it open."

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

(scroll down to page 3)

It seems gathering information from the reporting person was expected and not unusual. Note Ms. Whalen made NO reference to race in her statement to Officer Figueroa.

In reading the CNN article, Ms. Whalen's lawyer states:

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."



In saying this, "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period." it certainly implies she did talk to an officer but NOT Sgt. Crowley.

[LiberalFighter]

148. The second officer doesn't have much in his report.

[Spazito]

154. No, he doesn't which is interesting in itself...

given he arrived on scene very shortly after Sgt. Crowley entered the home of Dr. Gates and remained on scene until after the arrest.

[CakeGrrl]

78. This is going to make this week's beer meeting seem A-W-K-W-A-R-D

But Obama and Gates will look even MORE mangnanimous sharing their time with the lying cop who didn't vote for the President and who wrongly arrested Gates.

:crazy:

[EFerrari]

You know something, the president knows Skip Gates, remember?

Obama pretty much put a trap out for this racist asshole and he waltzed right into it.

lol

[pleah]

80. K&R

[RobinA]

81. Why Would He Lie

in his report about what Whalen said or whether or not he talked to her? It's of no consequence to the issue of the case. He could have been driving by in his cruiser, seen Gates trying to jimmy his own door, and the outcome could have been exactly the same. Nothing Whalen did or said covers any mistake he may or may not have made. Or exhonorates him of the same.

Sounds like this summers shark attack to me.

[EFerrari]

88. Except if he was told to look for two black men

then his arrest of Dr. Gates seems more like a natural outcome. Crowley was writing a context in which his own fucked up behavior made sense.

[goodhue]

95. Maybe he was acting stupidly?

eom

[EFerrari]

99. LOL

:toast:

[Mariana]

192. Out of habit, maybe.

Some people lie so often that they just begin to do it automatically. Maybe he lies on EVERY report he fills out, whether he "needs" to (to justify his actions) or not.

[Octafish]

84. Busted.

And the lady also has been more, ah, exposed: "...one looked kind of Hispanic..."

[goodhue]

91. more exposed, how?

seems she may have looked kind of hispanic herself

[EFerrari]

102. She's olive skinned herself, Portuguesa. nt

[Eric68601]

93. Here ya go.

A recording of the 911 call.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITl55WTyIRY

[Fumesucker]

94. Let the games begin...

I have a feeling that the "teachable moment" has not yet been reached.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Edited to add: I also am starting to think this is more about class than "race"..

[EFerrari]

98. I heard Gates talking about class last night on BookTv.

He'd probably say it was equally about class -- if only because Crowley didn't fabricate a story about two hobos.

:rofl:

[dorkulon]

106. I don't get it. How would lying about this help justify his actions?

Remember, the cop did nothing wrong to respond to a possible B&E call, regardless of the suspects' race. Where he went wrong was arresting Gates after it became clear he was in his own house. I don't really understand how fabricating a false description of their race would help him. Can anyone explain why he would do this, what possible benefit he would derive from it?

[EFerrari]

108. Because he panicked when he realized how badly he'd screwed up

in making that arrest and then he tried to make it look logical. If he was looking for black men, arresting one doesn't look so bad? That's all I can figure.

[Fumesucker]

111. Routine cop procedure really..

They are eminently used to lying to cover up their screwups..

And he would have gotten away with it without the media firestorm surrounding this case, 99.99% of the time this would have been "business as usual"..

[dorkulon]

118. I'm not surprised that a cp would lie to cover his butt...

My question is: How would fabricating a story about a witness identifying the "perps" as black help him in this case?

[EFerrari]

119. Because it makes him look as if he got at least part of it right, that's how nt

[tblue37]

273. Part of Gates' resentment toward Crowley was Ceowley's automatic assumption that a

slender, small, gray-haired, cane-using scholarly man in his own home on the telephone must be a suspicious character to be treated with no politeness or respect, but rather forced to prove, prove, and prove again that he had a right to be in that nice house (where, really, only a white man should reside, it seems).

By claiming that he believed the potential burglars were two black men, because of the 911 call and the (fabricated) conversation with Whalen (rather than because of his own racialist assumptions), then that supposedly justifies his insistence on continuing to treat Gates as a "suspect" after it was obvious that he wasn't at all suspicious. If Crowley had just apologized for the inconvenience and left as soon as it was obvious that Gates was in his own home and not a burglar, then this whole incident would have been nothing but a cop responding properly to the possibility of a break-in. But Crowley couldn't let it go. He kept after Gates, for whatever reason, long past when he should have just said, "Sorry for your inconvenience, sir" and left.

[BlooInBloo]

126. That's why I'm glad Gates is famous.

[goodhue]

114. How do we know he did nothing wrong in his response pre-arrest?

An uninvited entry into the house for instance would seem perhaps a mistake.

[dorkulon]

117. To clarify, what I'm saying is that

once the call about a possible burglary in progress is made, the cops are duty-bound to show up. As to his behavior once he got there, I obviously don't know.

[Mariana]

195. Maybe he's so accustomed to lying on his reports

that he just does so as a matter of course, whether he "needs" to or not.

[lexanman]

215. because he's not a very bright cop.

Panicked and lied. The straws are so hard to grasp when they slip farther and farther away.

[JDPriestly]

125. Skin color is an identifying factor -- like hair style, baldness,

height, weight, gender, eye color, tattoos, scars, earrings, clothing color, etc. It's all important in police reports. I've seen some reports in which witnesses and suspects were identified by letters. Thanks to the descriptions in terms of identifying factors, you can tell who did what. I saw at least one report in which it became obvious that the report had mixed up witnesses. The comments of a witness who clearly was not present during certain events was described as being present. You have to read police reports carefully.

This report was strangely better written than other reports I have seen. I'm wondering whether Officer Crowley's reports are always written in grammar and style that is so clear, so succinct. Are his reports always so well organized? This is not, in my experience, a typical police report. Come to think of it, I haven't read a police report during the last year or so. Is there some new technology that helps the officers write grammatically correct reports
nowadays?

[pscot]

128. I got a feeling Sgt. Crowley may not

be able to keep his appointment at the Whitehouse. I feel a sudden indisposition coming on. Perhaps the realization such a meeting might not be advisable in light of new developments.

[Bluerthanblue]

129. this is not good for Sgt. Crowley.... no wonder it seemed that the Cambridge

Police seemed to be dialing back their rhetoric at today's press conference.

Facts are very important in Crowley's line of work.


:hi:

[EFerrari]

136. And that's why in the AP story I posted last night, AP gave more space

to cop spin than to the meat of the story, she never said black. By the end of the piece, they'd spun it into, she didn't say black to the dispatcher.

Black eye #2 for Cambridge PD.

[CannabisRex]

144. Oh Happy Day!!

I can't wait for the day when such a conciliatory meeting as is proposed here does not involve the use of distilled chemical products but rather a safe and healing herb; CANNABIS!!

Maybe one day, dare I dream..someone placating rivals would offer a means of not only sensing the shared humanity of us all but seeing the humorous side of whatever situation was involved as well.

The peace pipe is always a better way, and if there was any real justice, and if politics was guided by truth and science, we might very well see vapor wafting from not only the White House but from many other venues when reason and a calm demeanor would do much to heal a divide.

Just a thought.

[drm604]

145. I'm not really surprised.

I didn't expect this but I'm not surprised.

I'm sure when he filed his report he had no idea that this would become a big deal and someone would actually compare his report to the phone call.

What happens to a Police officer who files a false report? I imagine it depends on the municipality, but it seems to me that it should be treated as a severe infraction.

[madaboutharry]

147. Crowley was getting everyone to stick their necks out for him,

knowing that he made up the story of talking with Whalen. What a jerk. He probably never thought she would go out and hire Wendy Murphy. She is on television from time to time commenting on cases and one thing is for sure, she has a really big mouth and doesn't take crap from anyone. Hmmm.

[EFerrari]

150. The union, the commissioner, asking for apologies for all cops everywhere.

And Crowley is the sensitivity trainer.

What a creep.

[tblue37]

292. Crowley even went on a RW radio station and hinted that he might

sue Gates for defamation of character!

He needs to learn not to let his alligator mouth bite his hummingbird ass. (old African saying)

[The Wielding Truth]

379. Now he has shown his true colors. He acts stupidly,to say the least.

[Bluenorthwest]

155. If a cop is talking, they are lying

it is that simple. They lie under oath, to their families, to the press, to themselves.

[Z_I_Peevey]

290. +1

no kidding

[Tx4obama]

156. Olive skinned people fall into the 'white' category

So what!
Sgt Crowley said 'white'.
Italian-Americans are olive skinned like Hispanics and Italian-Americans are considered to be 'white' here in the USA.
Lucia is also an Italian name. I am sure he did not stand outside while he was responding to a 911 call and questioned her on her race. She was not an African-American or Asian or Indian so basically she could be considered 'white'.

Also, don't forget that Mr. Gates was hollering about 'a white woman calling the police on him'.

[EFerrari]

160. LOL

[noiretextatique]

178. you do realize that is from crowley's police report?

the bit about gates hollering about a white woman? :eyes:

[goodhue]

190. Crowley describes a conversation he had with Whalen when he arrived.

But she ever spoke with him at all. So he made that part up. What else he made up is not yet clear.

[Tx4obama]

286. Well...

She is now saying that she did not talk to him BUT she works for HARVARD - so what do you expect her to say if she is covering for Mr. Gates?

I am sure the OTHER woman that was outside will come forward and tell us more about that!

[Enrique]

157. if he did that

then I think it's safe to say he acted stupidly.

(edit: but I'm unreccing this thread because of the false headline).

[goodhue]

194. what's false?

He describes in detail a conversation that did not take place.

[Enrique]

203. how do you know it didn't take place?

how do you know Whalen isn't lying?

Or that no one is lying? It could be a misunderstanding. Those do happen. Lying happens too of course and that could be what happened.

[goodhue]

209. Well when the Cambridge police were asked about it, note what they said . . .

Police Commissioner Robert Haas told reporters at a news conference Monday that the 911 tape and police transmission from that day "speak for themselves, and I would ask that you form your own opinion." He added that police always ask themselves: "If I had to do it over again, what would I have done differently?"

"This matter is not resolved," Haas said. "We have a long way to go. We recognize that we are going to take advantage of the situation and we're going to learn from it. We're going to move forward."

[leftupnorth]

159. So far Crowley has appeared to lie about

1. The conversation with Whalen
2. What the "suspects" were carrying (Whalen said suitcases to 911, not backpacks)
3. Whalen's being "white"
4. The reported race of the "suspects" before he identified them.


He couldn't have lied about anything else. Right???

Please feel free to add to the list, everyone.

[EFerrari]

162. Anyone seen his birth certificate?

[leftupnorth]

170. LOL

:rofl:

[Donnachaidh]

199. DUZY! n/t

[griloco]

372. bet he left it in china nt

[EFerrari]

382. Dr. Gates has kind back to the Revolutionary war.

This "Crowley" guy, not telling what else he's lying about. :hi:

[griloco]

397. yeah, probably the french revolutionary war nt

[Spazito]

405. Crowley was in China? Wow!

Who knew!

:rofl:

[Hoyt]

164. Obama got this one right "without all the facts"

[EFerrari]

171. Yes, he did.

That's my president.

:woohoo:

[Enrique]

172. he's clairvoyant

we don't need courts anymore, just ask Obama.

[EFerrari]

174. How psychic do you need to be to decide that arresting a guy

in his own home for nothing is behaving stupidly?

[Enrique]

180. Obama's smart enough to know the difference between guessing and "deciding"

and when he reads this new story he will realize he still doesn't know all of what happened.

[EFerrari]

184. No one knows all of what happens at any time. And because Obama

is an educated, thoughtful man, that was one of the first things out of his mouth.

Which was immediately interpreted by less thoughtful, less educated people as the president speaking out of line, which he was not.

Skip Gates is one of the most distinguished men of letters in this country. He is a national figure. It's only the Blue Wall that tried to reframe this as a local issue -- while they were being lied to by Crowley.

[Enrique]

191. I think we will know what happened eventually

there were a lot of witnesses and a lot of people want to know.

Then again, Obama could broker a deal to say, let's not open this whole thing up. I don't know if that will fly now, when there's a question of fabrications on a police report.

[EFerrari]

200. I'm pretty sure he told Skip Gates that we need to talk about healthcare

and Gates is media savvy so it's not hard to guess that he got it and agreed.

[BlooInBloo]

179. Nah. He's American.

[Jakes Progress]

169. The police jumped on Obama

for speaking without all the facts. It seems they are the ones who mouthed off before they had all the facts.

Not only does Crowley need to apologize, but so does the Cambridge police dept. Crowley needs to apologize to Gates. The Department needs to apologize to Obama.

Let Crowley buy his own beer. We don't need the WH to be involved in sweeping this away.

[mzteris]

175. who was the "other woman"

the older woman who called Whalen's attention to the whole thing?

Was she ever even interviewed?

[EFerrari]

177. I don't think so. n/t

[mzteris]

183. doesn't anyone think she

would be a VERY pertinent "witness" to this whole debacle? Why hasn't she been named and interviewed?????

[EFerrari]

185. No, because she never contacted the police. And because

the witness who did contact them had as much information as she did.

[mzteris]

193. no, evidently she had more -

she was the one who witnessed it from the getgo and got Whalen's attention. In fact, when I listened to the 911 tape, it sounds at first as if Whalen really didn't SEE much of anything but was just reporting what the other woman had said...

[EFerrari]

198. What is interesting is that Crowley nor anyone else bothered to ask her.

:shrug:

[lexanman]

219. Notice

the almost complete absence of the cop apologists now. Quiet as church mice. I hope not only he gets fired, but also Killion. and the whole department investigated. Believe it to the bone this is not the first lying ass report to come out of that department and covered up. These cockroaches need the light shone on them.

[EFerrari]

222. There are probably no happy campers there today, for sure. n/t

[tblue37]

298. I do see some apologists in this thread. Maybe you spoke too soon. nt

[lexanman]

230. this mysterious woman?

why did she not make the report then? You would think that if this other woman was critical, she would have been found and interviewed by the police, alas, she was not. Nor can this "mysterious" woman be heard in any 911 calls. No dice.

[mzteris]

233. did you listen to the 911 call?

Whalen clearly talks about the other woman . . .

I'd just like to know who she is and what she saw.

[lexanman]

245. I did, and I did not hear her voice. This has been in the news for a time now

You would think with your argument that this woman would come to clear up things. Iv'e seen statements that Whalen was made to call by this woman. What the other woman saw or who she is didn't seem very relevant when the cop was supposedly interviewing Whalen, which turns out he's lying though his teeth about. In fact, every part of what this cop wrote in his report is based on what Whalen supposedly told him, which according to arguments like yours, came from this woman.
Sounds to me like phantom statements were attributed to Whalen, when in fact she made none.


Unless you think the officer secretly interviewed this other woman, without Whalen's knowledge, then interviewed Whalen(which he didnt) and attributed that info to Whalen.

Are you seeing how utterly convoluted and full of shit that sounds? Or perhaps you still think the cop was telling the truth. Then in that case that would make sense. To a piece of tree bark maybe.

[mzteris]

263. uh - methinks you've got me wrong -

I'm no apologist for him.

I just think it very strange that she was never questioned nor her name mentioned. I'm just curious about it.

[lexanman]

284. Why would she be questioned or her name mentioned?

she did not make the call. She is not listed in the police report. This woman, whatever she alluded to, had nothing to do with the case.

[mzteris]

293. she instigated the call, did she not?

She asked Whalen to call. Presumably she was there while it was all happening, I'd just like to know what she has to say about it is all. :shrug:

[lexanman]

324. she may or may not have,

Whalen said she called because of a concerned neighbor. Does that mean the neighbor asked her to call? No. It might mean Whalen on her own decided to call because of her concern. It is not presumable at all this other woman was there, as she would have been interviewed when the officer got to the scene, right? A lot is being read into this woman, who in all likelyhood saw something, didn;t have a phone handy, and relayed what she saw to Whalen, which still doesnt make sense because Whalen specifically denies what the cop said she said in his reports.

[mzteris]

333. Whalen: "I'm just calling because

she's a concerned neighbor".

[lexanman]

346. I read it too

It didnt say Im calling because I was asked to call. The point being missed is it does not pertain to the lies in the officer's report. The officer doesnt refer to any person except Whalen in regards to the report. Which is actually odd, because the other woman is referenced in the 911 call, and is not in the officer's report. It is all attributed to Whalen, which turns out are lies. Seems like the officer lied and he knew it, and wasnt particularly bright in covering his ass.

[MellowDem]

176. I read the article....

and it never says what the OP says. Still not enough information about what happened. The truth is, the OP's title is as much of an assumption as any that has come before about this case. The truth will come out, but few can wait on the internet.

It's why the woman was assumed to be a racist by some on here, and that's just one "fact" which has been questioned as more information is coming out.

If Sgt. Crowley intentionally lied about this and did not mistake one name for another of who he spoke to, then I have no respect for him as a cop and it will also of course put into question everything else he "reported". This is such a big story that the truth will come out.

[EFerrari]

186. LOL.

[Enrique]

208. do you think Obama will call Crowley a liar?

if not, why not?

How about, for the same reasons that Obama doesn't call him a liar, we don't call him a liar.

(my guess for the reason Obama doesn't call him a liar is that HE DOESN'T KNOW).

[EFerrari]

213. My guess is that Obama won't call this liar a liar because he's smarter than that

and because he is more gracious than that, and in that order.

Obama knew what this guy was. What did he have to lose being gracious to him? Nothing. He looks even better know for giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Enrique]

227. why would it be not smart for Obama to call him a liar?

I happen to agree with you, and I think for the same reasons it wouldn't be smart for Obama to call him a liar, it isn't smart for us to do so.

What good does it do for us to call him a liar now?

I can tell you what harm it does, we could turn out to be wrong and then we would have been guilty of an injustice. Or doesn't that matter? We're "just DU" who cares if we unjustly accuse people, let's just fire away.

[EFerrari]

229. This information would not have come out but for the pressure

this lady felt to set the record straight.

[Enrique]

236. I agree

and why is it not smart, as you say, for Obama to call him a liar?

[EFerrari]

244. The president has taken the high road and so far, it's working for him just fine.

Why fix what's not broken?

[Enrique]

246. should DU take the high road?

I say yes. What's the downside?

[EFerrari]

247. DU's role is very different. We muckrake here and sometimes that has good results.

Most of the time, in fact. DU generally leads on these stories rather than follows.

Will we fall on our @sses sometimes? Sure. But if you run it down in your head, DU is usually on the right side of these issues before most people are.

[Cha]

387. Yeah, we be

the muckrakers..Much different than the president's role. Thanks for explaining that so thoughtfully.

[MellowDem]

393. The pressue she felt...

was from being called a racist for being white and reporting a possible break-in by minorities. And some on here automatically jumped to that same conclusion.

Regardless, it's good she came forward in case there is really something nefarious going on here and Crowley is lying.

[EFerrari]

422. Right and who put her in that false position? Crowley did.

[goodhue]

196. The article says that Whalen never talked to Crowley.

eom

[Enrique]

206. it doesn't say Crowley lied n/t

[goodhue]

211. Crowley's statement . . .

"As I reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified as Lucia Whalen. Whalen, who was standing on the sidewalk in front of the residence held a wireless telephone in her hand and told me that it was she who called. She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street. She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry. Since I was the only police officer on location and had my back to the front door as I spoke with her, I asked that she wait for other responding officers while I investigated further."

[Bluerthanblue]

250. maybe it was just a 'misspeak'....

....:shrug:.....

From the CNN article:

"Calls to the Cambridge Police Department about the issue have not been returned. Police Commissioner Robert Haas told reporters at a news conference Monday that the 911 tape and police transmission from that day "speak for themselves, and I would ask that you form your own opinion." He added that police always ask themselves: "If I had to do it over again, what would I have done differently?"

[goodhue]

257. yes, perhaps

But it is remarkably well crafted for something that didn't happen.

I suppose if you write a lot of police reports after events happen, it is not uncommon to recount narrative most consistent with your view of what went down, without really sweating the details of who said what. Probably happens all the time.

[Bluerthanblue]

260. now that's a

depressing thought.

Crowley mentioned that he used "Department issued hand-cuffs"- but couldn't get the important facts right?

It's pretty odd to say the least.

[Bluerthanblue]

217. read this:

exact quote from the article:

Attorney Wendy Murphy, who represents Whalen, also categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."

She added, "I'm not sure what the police explanation will be. Frankly, I don't care. Her only goal is to make it clear she never described them as black. She never saw their race. ... All she reported was behavior, not skin color."

Now read this excerpt from Sgt. Crowley's official report:

"When I arried a _ Ware Street I radioed ECC and asked that they have the caller meet me at the front door to this residence. I was told that the caller was already outside. As I was getting this information, I climbed the porch stairs toward the front door. As I reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified as Lucia Whalen. Whalen, who was standing on the sidewalk in front of the residence, held a wireless telephone in her hand and told me that it was she who called. She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of _ Ware Street. She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry. Since I was the only police officer on location and had my back to the front door as I spoke with her, I asked that she wait for other responding officers while I investigated further.

(read the entire report for yourself here-http://www.scribd.com/doc/17581906/CPDIncidentReport9005127 )

You may want to think about apologizing to the OP.

:hi:

[MellowDem]

389. No...

This is a complicated case. I read the entire report, but there still isn't enough information. For all we know, he was talking to the "older woman" that Lucia talks about. Even in his own report he doesn't say that HE identified the white female, just that they were later identified, which could have been a mistake or due to confusion.

Either way, the article the OP quotes never says that Crowley lies. If anything, Lucia's report shows that the stories don't match up. That can be for a whole lot of reasons. But to assume that it's because the cop is lying automatically exposes the OP's own bias.

There is nothing to apologize for, and if you can't see how this is still just guessing, then you are blind. I got no problem with people having their opinions on the case, but to put it in the title of the OP like it is fact is disingenuous.

[ebayfool]

419. He says he had his back to the door? Where there was supposed to ...

be 2 potential 'criminals'? I'd say that doesn't sound like something any cop w/experience on the job would be doing, never mind a Sgt! That sounded like hokem from the get-go.

"Since I was the only police officer on location and had my back to the front door ..."


I think the sgt has heard the old chestnut that the best lies are the ones w/a whole lotta detail. :rofl: But he didn't catch the part where they're supposed to mesh, match-up & make sense.

[grantcart]

277. On the simple question on whether Crowley met personally and talked with

Whalen it is obvious that Crowley lied.


He tried to fill in the cracks in an embarassing case that he thought would go away.


Problem is if he is willing to lie on small matters the question is raised is he willing to lie on big matters/


Its always the coverup that becomes the big problem.


Crowley lied to try and justify his over reaction.

[MellowDem]

392. You might be right...

but there is no evidence of that yet, just he said she said. Crowley might have mis-identified the woman he talked with. Maybe he was talking with the "older woman" that showed Lucia the break-in in the first place, and just thought that it was the same woman who called in the break-in.

Considering the woman who first saw the "break-in" and the woman who called it in were different, it could have been confusion.

Or it could have been that Crowley is lying. Either way, we still don't have all the facts.

[lexanman]

197. oops!

You mean a police officer would lie? Nah. He was just doing his duty to srrest a guy for the crime of "yelling offensively", you know, as in repeatedly asking for the cops badge number and name. Watch the clowns come on here and try and spin this.

[wisteria]

202. Who cares? People always don't remember things EXACTLY as they happened.

The officer was making a report, he wasn't testifying under oath. It could have simply been an after the fact honest mistake.
The other Black officer who was there said Crowley did nothing wrong in the handling of this situation.
This story has gone on long enough. The two major parties involved have said it is time to move on, and have agreed to meet at the WHite House and also have suggested this entire incident be used as a learning experience. However, it appears some people can't let it go and want to continue to pick at dry bones.

[goodhue]

204. The officer recounts a conversation that never took place at all

Its not the details that are the devil here

[wisteria]

360. I believe the call was relayed to him- he didn't take it directly.

Some people are trying real hard to try and prove this officer was racist.Some people have a vested interest in continuing to flame the smoldering fire. I am not going to by it any of it. I would rather believe the best about people and I don't think this officer was being racist. I don't know all the facts and I am not about to believe shady lawyers and selectively released phone calls. The other officers who were there back Crowley's story and Prof. Gates has said it is time to move on. I would suggest you do so.

[EFerrari]

404. LOL

[wisteria]

361. So what do you intend to do now Sherlock? Now that you think you has solved the crime.n/t

[goodhue]

431. what crime? nt

[EFerrari]

221. LOL

[Bluerthanblue]

242. bullshit-

the whole reason for writing a report is to ensure that the facts ARE remembered.

You want to put this behind because your stand is sinking fast.

Claiming in the report that he spoke with Whalen- and that she mentioned 'black men' when she claims to have done nothing of the kind, and the recordings back her up- is more than a little slip of memory. If Whalen never spoke with Crowley, his entire report is suspect.

Sorry Wisteria- it's a PO's JOB to get the facts RIGHT.- and to do so thoroughly.

I'm not into picking any kind of bones- but I'm into making sure this kind of shit stops- The Cambridge police acted like puffed up buffoons last week, and now they are saying that there is a lot that can be learned from this. Sgt. Crowley has stated that he will NEVER apologize. That kind of pig-headed attitude doesn't jibe with a person who is a "Stellar Officer"- He isn't infallible, or above needing to make amends.

[wisteria]

357. Think what you may. I think some people have a real problem with authority and are trying real hard

to try and prove something that can not be proven. I stand by my comments.

[EFerrari]

391. You seem to be the one that has a problem with authority.

And it's already very clear that Crowley lied his ass off and inserted race into this case for his own purposes.

[lexanman]

205. K and F'in R

and I want the apologists to remember this statement too from Killion.



"That was totally inappropriate. I am disgraced that he is our commander-in-chief. He smeared the good reputation of the hard-working men and women of the Cambridge Police Department. It was wrong to do. It was disgraceful."

Killion, whose union does not represent officer Sgt. James Crowley, says that Crowley is "a good sergeant." He added that Obama's comments today, in which the president said that cooler heads should have prevailed, were "back-pedaling, not a clarification


Say Obama is disgraceful as C in C. These police departments are out of control. And they are all over this country. I hope this type of shit makes everybody ever stopped by a cop suspicious and cooperate as little as possible, while documenting with audio and video if possible.

[PurityOfEssence]

207. Not good; he needs to speak up

It casts doubt on everthing he's said.

I'd like to hear her say what she said to him when he arrived, and I think they both should be expected to answer. He DEFINITELY should, since he's a public employee making a legal statement. She should because she's come forward to say that she said nothing about it in the call. From hearing the 911 call, it sounds highly doubtful that after being unclear about the race of the smaller guy, and thinking that the bigger one might have been Hispanic, it doesn't sound like she'd say something different to the responding officer.

If this is what it sounds like, I apologize for my stance on this, but Gates still bears some responsibility for the escalation. Gates, in an interview, makes no reference to calling him a racist, portraying himself as a gentle and innocent victim, so that's not particularly stellar performance either.

Crowley will have done all police a disservice if it is, in fact, true that he made this up. To my knowledge, she has not commented on her personal words to Crowley.

[goodhue]

214. She says she said nothing at all to him when he arrived or at any other point

eom

[EFerrari]

225. Yes, she has. She says she never spoke to him.

And I note that you are still trying to tar Dr. Gates who was arrested at his own home for being jet lagged.

Nice going.

[PurityOfEssence]

279. You're right. I just read that.

Her attorney says she never used the word "black" at all.

It's also open to question whether Crowley walked down the steps to the street.

I'm working today, so I'll have to catch up on all this later, but it certainly sounds bad. The Daily Kos article raises even more concerns.

I'm not trying to "tar" anyone, and presumably that's just an unfortunate choice of words instead of the insinuation that it sounds like.

Many questions are left unanswered, though, and it will be interesting to hear the rest of the tapes. If Crowley made up the statement, then I am sorry for having taken his word for it, and have already said so.

[EFerrari]

287. There's no "if" He lied. He never talked to her. n/t

[fishbulb703]

210. It doesn't change the fact a black, hispanic, and white officer, as well as witnesses...

Gates behavior as disruptive. He WASNT charged with B&E, but disorderly conduct.

DU really hates cops, apparently.

[goodhue]

212. Crowley recounted a conversation that never took place.

The only witness who has said Gates was disruptive is Crowley.

[fishbulb703]

218. Yes, he might have. So?

Eyewitness reports are awful at details and even descriptions. And did you even read the police report? Apparently not. There is a supporting one page report from a hispanic officer page three of thesmokinggun page, and a black officer made a statement that he supported the arrest "100%". So since you don't know any of the facts, please stop bashing the people paid to protect us.

Must just be "the black police looking out for a white cop."

[goodhue]

220. Crowley said this in the police report . . .

"As I reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified as Lucia Whalen. Whalen, who was standing on the sidewalk in front of the residence held a wireless telephone in her hand and told me that it was she who called. She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street. She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry. Since I was the only police officer on location and had my back to the front door as I spoke with her, I asked that she wait for other responding officers while I investigated further."

[fishbulb703]

231. So the neighbor who called recanted in order to avoid media scruitny?

Or Crowley is a racist whose entire agency, are also a bunch of douche racists?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates3.html

check reporting officer's name

kthx

[goodhue]

232. No neighbor called

Please try to keep up

[fishbulb703]

235. not even gunna read the report

[goodhue]

241. I've read the report

The caller was not a neighbor

[EFerrari]

243. Crowley was the genius that fabricated a conversation he didn't have

and assigned the wrong race to the witness he never met.

Sorry, your guy loses.

[LisaL]

270. He has met the witness, according to what Murphy told NYT.

Hello? By the way way do you accept that everything Murphy says is totally accurate? It's hearsay. Murphy wasn't there at all. And apparently she told CNN that Crowley and Lucia has not talked whatsoever, yet NYT quotes her as saying that Lucia told Crowley she was the one who called.

[EFerrari]

275. LOL

[LisaL]

289. What is so funny?

There was some sort of a conversation.

[EFerrari]

295. Crowley lied in his report. He misidentified Lucia and he didn't talk to her

at the scene.

That's all.

[LisaL]

296. He talked to her at the scene according to what Murphy told NYT.

“She didn’t speak to Sergeant Crowley at the scene except to say, ‘I’m the one who called,’ ” the lawyer, Wendy J. Murphy, said. “And he said, ‘Wait right there,’ and walked into the house. She never used the word black and never said the word ‘backpacks’ to anyone.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/us/28gates.html?_r=1&hp

"I'm the one who called."

Hello. That is a conversation.

[EFerrari]

304. That's just sad, Lisa. n/t

[goodhue]

223. Today CNN reported this . . .

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/gates.arrest/

Attorney Wendy Murphy, who represents Whalen, also categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."

She added, "I'm not sure what the police explanation will be. Frankly, I don't care. Her only goal is to make it clear she never described them as black. She never saw their race. ... All she reported was behavior, not skin color."

Calls to the Cambridge Police Department about the issue have not been returned. Police Commissioner Robert Haas told reporters at a news conference Monday that the 911 tape and police transmission from that day "speak for themselves, and I would ask that you form your own opinion." He added that police always ask themselves: "If I had to do it over again, what would I have done differently?"

"This matter is not resolved," Haas said. "We have a long way to go. We recognize that we are going to take advantage of the situation and we're going to learn from it. We're going to move forward."

[EFerrari]

228. I've read hundreds of police reports. And you're full of it.

Crowley protected only Crowley in this incident. And he was willing to put his department and his union at risk to cover his tracks.

Maybe you should pitch that loyalty thing to him and not here.

[fishbulb703]

234. see #231. hispanic officer fully corroborates that reporting woman was on scene

[EFerrari]

238. See Crowley's incident report. Her presence isn't in dispute but you know that.

[goodhue]

239. she was on scene but never talked to crowley

eom

[LisaL]

288. She did talk to Crowley altough denies she talked about the

race of the suspects, according to what Murphy told NYT.

[fishbulb703]

237. hundreds? there were exactly 2 in this case

[EFerrari]

240. Hundreds in the years I worked with the SFPD.

[LisaL]

266. There was some sort of conversation, according to what Murphy

told NYT. Murphy by the way wasn't there, so whatever she says is hearsay. But there was some sort of conversation between Crowley and Lucia. Certainly part of what Murphy says fits with what Crowley put in his report. Crowley wrote that Lucia informed him she was the one who called. Which Murphy in fact confirmed to NYT.

[Spazito]

308. No, Ms, Whalen, through her lawyer, stated very clearly the following...

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."

Link to CNN report:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/gates.arrest/index.html?iref=mpstoryview



This point is very important as well:

"And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."

There was a second officer on scene, Officer Figuerao, who also submitted an official police report which states:

"I stepped out to gather information from the reporting person, WHALEN, LUCIA. Ms Whalen stated to me that she saw a man wedging his shoulder into the front door as to pry the door open."

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

Could you please provide a link to the NYT article that states Ms. Whalen's attorney says "there was some kind of conversation between Crowley and Lucia". It would be appreciated.

(scroll down to page 3)

Note Ms. Whalen stated "a man", she did NOT indicate race at all. Officer Figuerao's report seems to back up Ms. Whalen's contention that at NO time did she indicate the race of the person.

[LisaL]

340. I've already posted it. But here is what according to NYT

Murphy has said

“She didn’t speak to Sergeant Crowley at the scene except to say, ‘I’m the one who called,’ ” said the lawyer, Wendy J. Murphy. “And he said, ‘Wait right there,’ and walked into the house. She never used the word black and never said the word backpacks to anyone.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/us/28gates.html?_r=1&hp

[Spazito]

358. "I'm the one who called"

You consider that a conversation? Wow and yikes!

[LisaL]

363. By definition that is a conversation. Very different from

never meeting the witness and never talking to the witness.

[Spazito]

367. If you believe that qualifies as a 'conversation'...

that's really quite sad.

[LisaL]

373. Look it up in a dictionary.

Sad is claiming it was not a conversation.
Words were exchanged. That makes it a conversation by definition.

[Spazito]

376. I did, I didn't want to embarrass you by posting it...

but, seeing as you insist on pursuing this:


1. a. The spoken exchange of thoughts, opinions, and feelings; talk.
b. An instance of this: held a long conversation on the subject.

2. An informal discussion of a matter by representatives of governments, institutions, or organizations.

http://www.answers.com/topic/conversation

I feel quite sad that this is what you have to use to continue an increasingly feeble attempt to defend the indefensible.

[LisaL]

381. Can you ever hold a short conversation?

Or is that impossible now days?
:eyes:

[lexanman]

224. being disruptive is not a criminal offense, neither is yelling.

falsifying a police report is. So is conspiracy to cover for criminal cops. DU hates lying criminals who call themselves cop, but are in fact jack-ass thugs.

[tabasco]

331. Well said. n/t

[lexanman]

353. thanks

[EFerrari]

226. No, it's more that you're willing to defnd a lying racist cop.

[Enrique]

259. he might not be lying or racist

so it's good that some people are defending him, including Obama.

[EFerrari]

283. A witness has rejected his incident report, his arrest has been thrown out.

What else are we waiting for?

[Enrique]

294. for more information

an investigation, clear accounts from more witnesses, etc. Obama might try to get all involved to "move on", but I don't know if that's possible.

[EFerrari]

302. Obama has already done more than his share.

I can't remember any other president or high official speaking directly about racial profiling. That was pretty cool.

[sledgehammer]

390. You can be as disorderly you want in your own home...

...if you are not threatening anyone's life or property. That's no reason to arrest anyone.

A Klan leader can hurl whatever insults he wants to a black cop in his own home. But if there's no reason to arrest the person, or have any suspicion of illegal activities, then the cop needs to move on. He can not make the insults personal.

That's what Crowley did. He made the insults personal, and abused his power to arrest Gates (this is all besides the fact that he lied on the report).

DU doesn't hate cops, but it sure does hate abuse of power. Whether it's Dubya, or whether it's Sergeant Crowley.

[Gator_Matt]

441. Careful, defend a cop and you're a facist here apparently

Heaven forbid you have a dissenting opinion on the shocking groupthink I've been seeing here. It MUST be racism; how else will so many posters feel holier-than-thou for condemning Crowley?

I must say that I'm disappointed with the knee-jerk reactions I've seen with this story. It's stuff like this that turns off moderates. If you're going to claim racism, at least save it for actual racism, not just for when someone happens to be black and arrested by a white cop. Of the two involved, who was the only one to make any racial reference? Hint: It wasn't the cop.

[goodhue]

216. Crib notes for those who don't read article--the lie is claiming the conversation took place

The details while interesting are not heart of the matter

[LisaL]

272. And according to what Murphy told NYT, some sort of

conversation did take place.
So hello.

[Eric68601]

261. Here's something else..

OK, so Crowley also alleged that Gate's yelling prevented him from communicating with ECC..

Listen to the 911 tapes again and take it to about 6:25 into it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITl55WTyIRY

Crowley couldn't communicate because he switched to a different channel, Crowley distorts for a bit because of the channel switch, then you hear dispatch say as clear as day "52, go back to channel 2", at which point Crowley does, and then you can once again hear him crystal clear.

[LisaL]

265. Here is what Murphy told NYT.

“She didn’t speak to Sergeant Crowley at the scene except to say, ‘I’m the one who called,’ ” the lawyer, Wendy J. Murphy, said. “And he said, ‘Wait right there,’ and walked into the house. She never used the word black and never said the word ‘backpacks’ to anyone.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/us/28gates.html?_r=1&hp

So in fact Lucia and Crowley did have some sort of conversation. By the way, whatever Wendy Murphy says is hearsay. She wasn't there. So I fail to see how the rest of you can claim that Crowley lied.
Hello? Lucia and Crowley did talk, according to Murphy.

[goodhue]

271. And this is what CNN reported . . .

Attorney Wendy Murphy, who represents Whalen, also categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."

[LisaL]

274. Yea so Murphy is quoted as saying one thing to CNN, yet

quoted by NYT Crowley and Lucia did have a conversation in which Lucia informed Crowley she was the one who called. Hello. By the way whatever Murphy says is hearsay either way.

[goodhue]

276. Read carefully what Crowley wrote in report . . .

"As I reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified as Lucia Whalen. Whalen, who was standing on the sidewalk in front of the residence held a wireless telephone in her hand and told me that it was she who called. She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street. She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry. Since I was the only police officer on location and had my back to the front door as I spoke with her, I asked that she wait for other responding officers while I investigated further."

I fail to see how this is not a lie.

[LisaL]

278. Murphy is quoted by NYT as saying Lucia and Crowley did talk,

Lucia informed Crowley that she was the one who called, and Crowley told her to "stay here."
So I fail to see how you can tell Crowley's report is a lie, considering that what you have is Murphy apparently telling somewhat differing things to different news sources.

[goodhue]

282. You can inform without talking

As for the two black males with backpacks, it's a lie

[LisaL]

291. What? Murphy isn't alleging they communicated

in sign language.

[goodhue]

299. Murphy denies any communication in CNN, but as you note suggests perfunctory interaction in NYT

Doesn't alter fact that Crowley lied.

[LisaL]

300. And you know that how?

[goodhue]

303. Intelligence

[grantcart]

280. Identifying yourself as the caller is not a conversation.

[LisaL]

285. What is it then?

LOL.

[grantcart]

297. Confirming your identity. Was she the home owner, was she a victim?

Once the identity was established a conversation could take place. Obviously Crowley was drawn away and a conversation about what she had seen did not take place between Crowley and Whalen, contrary to Crowley's report.

It is clear that Whalen does not agree with the written report that Crowely submitted and went to the trouble of getting an attorney to make the point clear.

I would like to sympathize with the officer, we all have bad days, but he is misrepresenting the facts and it now undermines everything else he said about Dr. Gates demeanor and reactions. If Crowley was willing to misrepresent Whalen's interaction then what else did he get wrong.

[LisaL]

305. You open your mouth. Words come out. That's a conversation

to me.
And not just to me.
Read the definition from www.dictionary.com
1. informal interchange of thoughts, information, etc., by spoken words; oral communication between persons; talk; colloquy.

[EFerrari]

314. Hello, Lisa? This lying racist fabricated a conversation with Lucia

where she said she saw two black men breaking into Dr. Gate's residence.

What part of lying his ass off is unclear to you?

[LisaL]

332. You have claimed on this thread they didn't talk at all, and that

Crowley didn't even meet the witness. Are you still going to claim that? Were you there? How do you know what was said?

[EFerrari]

364. If he met her how did he get her race wrong?

[LisaL]

371. What race is she?

She isn't Black or Asian.
So in fact it would be proper to refer to her as white.

[EFerrari]

386. Aren't you forgetting one. Lisa?

Excuse me. I have to go puke now, hermanita.

[LisaL]

396. "Hispanic" is not a race. It's an ethnicity. Look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States_Census

[EFerrari]

399. Maybe you could give me and Lucia Hispanic lessons.

Any maybe you should go look up race, period, for that matter.

[LisaL]

402. According to wikipedia:

"The distinct questions accommodate the possibility of Hispanic and Latino Americans' also declaring various racial identities (see also White Hispanic and Latino Americans, Asian Latinos, and Black Hispanic and Latino Americans)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States_Census

[EFerrari]

403. Do you actually think that quoting wikipedia to a Latina is appropriate?

Wild.

[LisaL]

407. Well pardon me.

I can't see other posters race or ethnicity through my computer screen. I don't think wikipedia changes depending on whom is being quoted to. Wikipedia only goes by what US census says:
"People who identify their origin as Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino may be of any race.

According to the revised Office of Management and Budget standards noted above, race is considered a separate concept from Hispanic origin (ethnicity) and, wherever possible, separate questions should be asked on each concept."
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2001/raceqandas.html

[EFerrari]

417. Right. You were too busy defending a lying racist cop to

to read my multiple posts to you about being Hispanic. And you're still citing authorities as if I don't know who I am.

lol

You choose your own adventure.

[LisaL]

418. Take it up with the census.

By the way it really doesn't have much to do with the case. Except I fail to see why Crowley should be accused of lying for identifying the woman as "white." According to the census, someone can be both "Hispanic" and white at the same time.

[EFerrari]

424. The census has nothing to do with Lucia's skin tone or the fact

that she does not look or identify as white. As I said earlier, they need a new sensitivity trainer in Cambridge. You could do just as well as Jim Crowley.

[LisaL]

427. Well, in a breif conversation she had with Crowley, I doubt he

asked her what race/ethnicity/origin she identifies as.
And I have no idea what she looks like. I haven't seen any photos of her.

[Spazito]

409. You better hurry up and call the Cambridge Police then,,,,

and tell them that they can only use 'white, black or asian' because they specifically made reference to 'hispanic':

911 Call:

Dispatcher: "white, black or hispanic?"

ECC tape:

"unknown on race, one may be hispanic, we are not sure."

http://thepoliticalcarnival.blogspot.com/2009/07/videos-cambridge-911-call-excerpts.html

It seems they don't know there is only white, black and asian!

Geez the hole you are digging keeps getting deeper, keep digging by all means.

[LisaL]

410. In all fairness to the police, a lot of people seem not to know that

"hispanic" is not a race.
I am only going by what US census says. So why don't you inform a Census Bureau they are mistaken?

[Spazito]

413. Pathetic, truly pathetic and you don't even see it n/t

[LisaL]

414. What is it am I supposed to see?

According to the census, someone who identifies his or her origin as Hispanic can be of any race.
What am I missing exactly?

[blogslut]

339. When a lawyer speaks for a client, it isn't hearsay

As well:

"I'm the one who called."

"Wait right there."

While technically, could be considered a conversation, it certainly doesn't match the discussion described by Crowley in his report.

[LisaL]

348. It matches part of it.

In fact despite the fact that many of you claim Crowley never even met Lucia or spoken to her at all, it sure looks to me like he's met her and they did talk.

[blogslut]

356. I made no such claim

Ms. Whalen states that she never told anyone that the two men were black or that they were wearing backpacks. She states (via her lawyer) that she said "I'm the one who called" to Crowley and Crowley replied "Wait right there.'

The extended conversation appears to have been invented by Officer Crowley.

[rhett o rick]

269. Police lie all the time. It is one of their benefits. Not being held accountable.

Even cases where video tape shows them lying, they are exonerated. It is one benefit of being a cop. I recently got a ticket. It was minor but the cop lied and so I went to court. The judge seemed sympathetic but "had" to take the cop's word over mine. I was lucky that I didn't become argumentative or I would have been taken to the jail for processing then have the charges dropped. This is a common cop trick they use when they really don't like you. Gates needs to sue for false arrest.

[saigon68]

281. He is a Dirty POS

Scum sucking dog FUCK HIM

[ellie]

313. Jesus, the cop lied?

There goes my faith in humanity!

Fucking cop.

[Cali_Democrat]

318. Where are all the pig defenders?

Come here and defend your pig hero filing a false police report.

[Enrique]

325. here's one

I actually just had a conversation with Sergeant Jim Crowley, the officer involved. And I have to tell you that as I said yesterday, my impression of him was that he was a outstanding police officer and a good man, and that was confirmed in the phone conversation -- and I told him that.

[EFerrari]

328. Obama didn't take back his assesment that the police acted stupidly

or his observations about racial profiling.

Sure, he praised the cop in question but he can't unsay, and he knows he can't, his initial statement.

[Cali_Democrat]

341. I'm talking about the DU'ers that attacked Obama for calling Crowley's actions stupid

Obama never defended Crowley's actions.

[progressivebydesign]

326. wow. who really cares about this shit?

Everyone, including the man who was arrested, have moved on.

[EFerrari]

327. Um, people who care about racism and about police misconduct?

[AuntPatsy]

412. This is not shit and I cannot believe that you would like for once again

the very real fact of police abusing their power to be something to just walk away from.....


I have no doubt at all if this issue does not keep in the forefront that it will never end...how in the world do we expect issues to be addressed and dealt with if they continue to simply move on and away..

We have enough people in this country to ensure all the important issues that our country is facing at this moment are given precedence, it is not the fault of those people attempting such that the media and people like you tends not to "give a shit" after a time and moves on , I assume you must bore easily, perhaps there are too many citizens who are easily bored which is why they are unable to accomplish much if at all......

If people honestly cared about what our government officials were doing with our hard earned money they would spend their spare time not watching "america's got talent" or such but cspan which shows the meetings our officials must attend and cspan would be leading in the ratings war of our televised world...the fact that it is not considering what our citizens are facing these days is pretty telling, they obviously like you bore easily and listening to people talk about issues day after day must rate up there with "boring"....

we have no one to blame in reality but ourselves if issues get hidden away..and everyday, I see blame him, blame her blame them...

[Algorem]

335. Crowley sounds Satanic

[Confusious]

350. I heard he' a NAZI

Gets the jack boots out and goose steps around on the weekends.

Has baby brains with fava beans for dinner on the weekends.

[EFerrari]

366. I didn't hear that. I just heard he lies to cover his ass on police reports

and allows his union and his department to stick up for him when he knows he's lying.

What a POS to do that to so many people.

[NoSheep]

428. No...I think others are paid to do that for him. It's an American perk.

[NoSheep]

429. I've encountered the same recently. I don't believe in Satan..but I know Satanic when I see it.

[BlooInBloo]

337. Before the lie came out, I wish to GAWD someone would have asked him...

"Is this how you always do your job?"

[RoccoR5955]

344. K & R You know that the police don't have to obey the law, because they ARE the law

It's that way all over. They do what they want, whenever they want, and people still love them. I don't know why they like the damn police. I have personally been harassed, and I am white. I just have darker skin than most lily white people, and wear my hair long. Yeah, I have been profiled since the 60s. They don't like me, and I don't like them!
Police are none more than the thugs that keep us in line, should we speak out against the corporations. Police and corporations are our enemies!

[Major Hogwash]

365. Obama was right, the Cambridge police did act stupidly

Not only by arresting Gates, but later by defending Crowley in a knee-jerk fashion for arresting Gates.

The police report that was filed is false.

And that means that the officers of the Cambridge police department have a whole lot of room for an opportunity here to make this into a teaching lesson.

And the first thing they need to learn is how not to lie on a police report.

And then they can start working on that racism thing they've got a problem with later.

[ShamelessHussy]

374. I bet he did... knowing that he had to cover up his STUPID, at best, actions that fateful day

I am very thankful it has involved very prominent people or this would just continue to be not discussed in polite society.

With this new evidence out, and the race card played repeatedly by the officer... I am left to conclude that race also had something to do with his stupid actions.

it will be interesting to see if this info will now force the M$M to 'move-on' and go back to their SOP of simply ignoring and playing down issues of abuse by police on the citizenry :shrug:

It was certainly interesting watching it play out here, too :evilgrin:

[Grinchie]

375. I have seen it myself. I once wrote out a complete statement and it was ignored

The Cop taking the report had to run off to catch a bank robber, so I took the time to write out a statement on the computer while the memory was still fresh.

He returned and took my written statement. I waited 3 weeks before the Police report was ready, and when it was, it was a twisted jumpble of nonsense, and my typewritten statement was nowhere to be found. They had lost it and made up some story and filed it as an official police report.

It's pretty disappointing when the system that is in place is about as effective as the actors seen on TV. After all, what the fuck are we paying our real property taxes for when the cops are so inept that they can't even take statements and write them down properly. They'ed be better of using tape recordings if they are unable to transcribe a statement properly.

[spanone]

383. maybe over the beer, professor gates can ask him why.

[Aramchek]

384. maybe he won't be having that beer...

[Jakes Progress]

394. Just what is the Cambridge PD policy

on officers lying on a police report? Crowley still on duty after this?

Hmmmm.

[Snazzy]

395. No one is asking the important question

in these great many days of threads, what kind of beer will Obama's WH serve. I'm going with:




But it's just a wild guess.

[Hoyt]

400. Funny. I have been wondering about that.

They ought to brew up an "Obama" beer or something for the occasion. I'd buy a six pack just for the heck of it, maybe more if it is good. Might even offset some of the deficit or pay for health care coverage -- that would tick off the right wingers.

[RoccoR5955]

437. Maddow did identify the beers last night

Obama: Budweiser
Crowley: Blue Moon
Gates: Red Stripe or Becks

None are my favorites.
Why aren't these Bostonians drinking Sam Adams' fine beers? They are much better than any of the four mentioned.

BTW-- I am former VP of a local hombrewers' club!

[Snazzy]

458. oh man, Bud

That's some PR move there. You know they at least have a case of Billy beer hiden away in the basement somewhere.

[TexasObserver]

415. Thanks. It good to have sane, rational threads about this topic.

Some of the gibberish posted on this incident is appalling. The justifications and rationalizations for racial profiling are pathetic.

[Overseas]

421. K&R for the remarkable revelations that emerged today. ...nt

[Gregorian]

442. Cops lie, and then prosecutors prosecute.

I just thought I would toss that into this thread.

[NeoGreen]

444. K & R #150 n/t

[EmeraldCityGrl]

445. Bill Maher said it best...

"I'm not even sure this is a racial situation because I don't know if this cop is racist. But I have to say it seems to me more like a police situation. I think Henry Louis Gates was arrested for the crime of not kissing the behind of the police officer."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/27/bill-maher-discusses-pali_n_245889.html


As soon as Prof. Gates failed to show gratitude for having this cop in his house, Crowley made up his mind to fuck with him.

[unapatriciated]

448. Yup, if you dare to question it becomes a matter of ego.

He then turned it into a race situation by falsifying his report. Which gives us a clue on his thinking in regards to AA's let alone a highly respected and educated AA.

on edit: his falsified report makes me wonder what he really said to Prof Gates that day.

[madfloridian]

455. Look what is in the CNN version and missing from the AP version

" Attorney Wendy Murphy, who represents Whalen, also categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."

That is in the CNN report you linked to.

But look at the AP report:

http://www.theledger.com/article/20090727/NEWS/907279970

Either I am blind or it is not there.

I sure do not see it.

That is an important part of the report.

[EFerrari]

457. The AP version visibly gives the police spin the floor. I noticed that

the night before the whole story in the CNN version came out. They made it sound as if she said one thing to the dispatcher and another to Crowley.