Tax the smokers and leave the obese alone. The American Way !

[RagAss]

"In fact, people who are obese spend almost $1,500 more each year on health care -- about 41 percent more than an average-weight person. Beyond those costs are the disability and early deaths caused by obesity, Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said during a press conference Monday."




http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=8184975&page=1

[Hannah Bell]

1. they're all bogus stats. the point is to scapegoat anyone *except* the rulers.

who have most of the money.

[leftstreet]

2. Excellent! Smoking and obesity in one thread

:popcorn:

[RagAss]

4. yeh....What the heck,, ,it's Monday...

[leftstreet]

24. Well, the 'woman who ate baby brains' is pulling away from your thread

DU is a tough crowd

[PVnRT]

9. Olive Garden! Pitbulls! Breastfeeding! Circumcision!

[KamaAina]

11. Ralph Nader! Cornflake chicken! Vegetarianism!

:P

[PVnRT]

14. PETA PETA PETA PETA PETA PETA

I think we have the bases covered now.

[wtmusic]

16. Mac vs PC! Hillary! Cloth vs disposable! Little Guns! Big Guns!

:silly:

[SoCalDem]

12. Is it ok to smoke while you breastfeed, though? (especially if it's at Olive Garden)

[Rosa Luxemburg]

3. We need preventative care

Dancing is great for getting those pounds off - cha cha cha

In fact that there are inexpensive ways to combat obesity like reducing calories, exercise.

Fast food or ordinary restaurants and supermarkets should be made to put 'fat alerts' on food. Like red flags.

[Fumesucker]

39. Please, some of us are melanin challenged..

You really *don't* want to see me "dance"..

Spastic ground sloth is about the right image.. :)

I have just enough grace and coordination to twirl (not pump) the pedals on my bicycle.. ;)

[The Straight Story]

5. We could pay for schip with a cheeseburger and beer tax

:)

[chaplainM]

6. Beware the dangerous effects of second-hand fat. eom

[endarkenment]

7. Most states tax restaurant bills.

I'm sure you have some sort of point. What do you propose, a per-pound tax as a form of per-capita taxation? A BMI tax? Food police?

[RagAss]

13. BMI will do... or stop sticking me with unreasonable taxes on smokes.

The numbers are there...the cost of obesity hits health care costs more than smokers do.

Where's the justice?

[endarkenment]

23. Ah - surely then we will have the Caliper Police come 'round

and figure our BMI.

Tobacco tax revenue does not go to health care costs. There is no linkage except in your nicotine addled brain. It is probably the case that smokers are actually a net revenue gain due to their early exit program, saving buckets of money in SS payments and geezer-care.

Bottom line is that governments tax addictive products like alcohol and tobacco and gasoline because they can and because they know that there is little demand elasticity.

You could do what I did to quit smoking: I invested in a large quantity of specific contraband product (that is untaxed) and smoked that instead of tobacco until I no longer had the desire for the real thing.

[RagAss]

27. I never said it went to health care...but being an "unhealthy" product, demonized in the name

of danger to the public made it a target for these taxes. Well, now we have another dangerous target to tax.
Don't worry. it won't happen. Twinkies for everyone !!!

[customerserviceguy]

47. There's a difference

Your second-hand smoke affects people who don't want nicotine in their lungs. My obesity doesn't have an impact on other people, since they won't get clogged coronary arteries just from being in the same room with me while I'm scarfing down a steak.

However, we both keep Medicare and the Social Security System solvent by not living until ninty.

[KamaAina]

8. I'll take my popcorn with extra butter...

:popcorn:

[PVnRT]

10. ...

[Maru Kitteh]

15. There are no medical conditions that cause a person to smoke despite a concerted effort not to

Total fail.

[RagAss]

17. It's called addiction...same as obesity.

[Maru Kitteh]

19. Mmm. Sorry. Dr. RagAss. Your medical degree from Palau is no good here.

Because you're wrong.

[RagAss]

21. You don't recognize Nicotine addiction?

[Maru Kitteh]

28. I should have been more clear. There are no medical conditions which cause you to make the dumb-ass

decision to take up with a habit you know to result in high medical bills, decreased quality of life and premature, miserable, painful death.

While the majority of obesity is pretty much self-inflicted, there remaiins a sizable (no pun intended) minority who are obese as a consequence of their medical problems, rather than the reverse.

Smoking addiction should be addressed by offering free smoking cessation to smokers for as long as it takes them to quit, not by enabling the behavior.

Nobody has to smoke. Everyone has to eat. I'm personally all in favor of taxing nutrient poor foods IF the burden such a tax would present to the poor can be mitigated. I realize more poor people smoke, but again, nobody has to smoke. Everyone has to eat.

If the issue with how the poor would be affected can be addressed, then high sugar, high fat foods like ground meat and HFC sodas should be taxed more, along with booze. None of these measures would heavily penalize anyone eating a healthy diet.

edit typo

[WillyT]

32. Not True... I DO Have To Smoke... And It IS Good For You...

may be terrible for me, but good for people like yourself.

Ya see... by smoking, I tend to calm the intense desire to beat the living crap out of judgmental pricks and societal scolds that I run into on a daily basis.

It's my little contribution to a more civilized society.

Your welcome.

:evilgrin:

[Hassin Bin Sober]

37. LOL @ internet tough guy. You would probably keel over if you got in a "real life" fight.

[WillyT]

38. LOL @ Internet Judgemental Prick

I guess you'll never know, will ya?

Think I'll go have a smoke.

:evilgrin:

:smoke:

[Hassin Bin Sober]

46. Enjoy, wheezy.

[Maru Kitteh]

49. So, you're saying that poor impulse control is another one of your problems?

[WillyT]

52. Oh Yeah... The List Is Quite Long...

the smoking seems to help though.

Thanks for asking.

:evilgrin:

[Maru Kitteh]

61. I like you Willy. You haz teh funny.

:P

[pipi_k]

34. It's true that nobody is forced to make the dumb decision to smoke, but

I would imagine that most smokers of many years probably started smoking when they were too young and naive and stupid to realize what it can do.

And nobody really believes they'll become addicted anyhow. "Oh...not me!" they say. I'll only have one. Or two. Maybe three. Just to fit in with the other kids. To "look cool" or whatever.

That is why marketing to children (anyone under the age of 21, IMO) is so very wrong. Most of them have brains/reasoning/logic that is not even fully cooked yet. They are, for all intents and purposes, stupid. And yeah, I imagine if there's anyone here under the age of 21 they'll come in here and give me a good flaming, but it won't work. I was that age once and I thought I knew everything. I knew NOTHING.

anyway.

Long term smokers started out doing it when they were young and stupid. Then a whole lot of them became addicted.

We can't blame the addicts for being addicted, and we certainly can't blame young people for being stupid enough to believe an addiction (and/or deadly lung disease) could never happen to them.

[Maru Kitteh]

50. That's why smoking cessation medications and programs should be available to all smokers for free.

Smoking addiction should be addressed by offering free smoking cessation to smokers for as long as it takes them to quit, not by enabling the behavior.

[Occulus]

62. I THOUGHT that was what those tax increases were for.

No, those tax increases are paying for programs we should have paid for in the first place, thereby placing the burden of funding the programs directly on the backs of people whose behavior we're supposedly trying to discourage.

So, the more people quit smoking, the less funding will be available for the programs that benefit from tobacco taxes.

The stupid burns like acid.

[RagAss]

35. I was 15... who the fuck thought of future high medical costs in the 70's when they were 15?

jeezus...where did you grow up.... at the Cleveland Clinic????

[Maru Kitteh]

51. All smokers should have access to free smoking cessation meds and programs for as long as it takes

to stop. I don't care if it costs taxpayers $10,000 and the smoker needs 5 years to do it. It's cheaper than 25 years of COPD, emphysema, and cancer meds and the payoff in quality of life for the smoker (and his/her family) is immeasurable.

[Donnachaidh]

25. and you're blinkered --- guess you have no friends or family with addiction problems?

Try talking to some addiction counselors. Many say that quitting nicotine is as hard or harder than quitting heroin.

And yeah, I know this first hand, because I have a family member who IS an addiction counselor.

[Maru Kitteh]

29. I was not as clear as I should have been with my post. Please see above.

[Donnachaidh]

45. you were perfectly clear --

It's a wonder you get any oxygen at all from way up on that high horse of yours.

And I reiterate -- it's an ADDICTION that is harder to quit than heroin. Of course, many of those folks don't consider themselves self-styled gods/goddesses who judge others by standards that are as victorian.... :eyes: :shrug:

[endarkenment]

26. tobacco is one of the most addictive substances known

addiction rates are way higher than any other addictive substance.

[Maru Kitteh]

30. I agree, and I believe smoking cessation should be free and available as long as it takes the smoker

to quit.

[RebelOne]

57. I have to agree. I did cocaine quite heavily for a few years.

It was readily available where I lived in South Florida. Then I moved to North Georgia where it was not easy to buy, plus I didn't have any contacts to buy it from here. So, I just didn't do it anymore. But there is no way I could quit smoking that easily. Now, if the government would just make tobacco illegal, I would just not smoke anymore, because I would not be able to buy cigarettes. So, out of sight, out of mind.

[ThomWV]

18. Grotesque taxation and public scorn have greatly reduced smoking, it would work on obesity too.

You can not gain weight from food you do not eat.

[Missy Vixen]

22. And there's not enough scorn for the fat now?

Then again, aren't you the same guy that posted a disgusting thread a few months ago re: some fat woman at the local hardware store?

Why don't you post a recent photo of yourself? I'm betting you're no prize, either.

[NutmegYankee]

48. Scorn makes some Obese people eat more.

In some people overeating is a reaction to stress.

[wtmusic]

20. Oh sure...let skinny people off the hook.

And motorcyclists, skydivers. People who live in cities. I suppose they get a free ride??

[pipi_k]

36. Not to mention people who

use hand held hair dryers next to the sink...

eat unwashed lettuce...

don't wash their hands when leaving a public bathroom...

put their hands and fingers near their faces during cold and flu season...


what about those careless bastards???

[taterguy]

40. Since when do skydivers raise medical costs?

Aren't most of their accidents fatal?

[wtmusic]

56. True - where's their tax credit?! nt

[The Traveler]

31. Tolerance

The word "love" derives from the old English "lief", meaning "to give permission". To love someone is to grant them permission to be who they are, to find the other good despite their flaws. And, as John Lennon observed, "All ya need is love" ... and he wasn't talking about just receiving it.

We live in a society in which "zero tolerance" has become the standard. Once upon a time, tolerance was regarded as a virtue. Hey, you're different from me ... you make different choices ... but as long as you aren't ravaging grandmothers, burning down houses, or anything like that so you're cool, it is your life to live. Not any more.

These days, it is far more typical to regard another's choices from the viewpoint of one's own abstract value system and apply this principle of zero tolerance. Indeed, it seems to me that the chief difference between conservative and liberal these days is simply which life style choices are open to condemnation. The principle of zero tolerance towards life style choices is itself freely applied on both sides.

And thus, in threads like this, one encounters those who simultaneously want to impose draconian penalties on smokers or fast food eaters while advocating legalization of marijuana. This is rather amazing to me.

There are of course many behaviors that can drive up health care costs. I smoked for much of my life. Smoking thus far has contributed a minor amount of my life time health care costs. Rock climbing, white water, skiing, and other strenuous sports have contributed the bulk of my health care costs (broken bones, torn ligaments, concussions). Perhaps we should ban these risky behaviors as well, or exclude them from health care reform plans, or tax the crap out of them.

The danger I see in a policy path of this sort it leads towards a state wherein "All behavior that is not forbidden is compulsory." Smoking is bad for you. So is gluttony. So is an excess of sex. One can create major health problems by over exercise, oddly enough. Which of these behaviors shall we regulate with the force of law or the application of taxes?

Trav

(I hate these threads ... make me want to smoke ... must resist ...)

:evilgrin:

[jimmyflint]

33. yes tax them.

And tax soda pop,fast food,candy,chocolate,cell phones,the internet,and music. Also tax people who engage in dangerous activities such as smoking,drinking,drug use,unprotected sex,contact sports,skiing,jogging,White water rafting/kayaking,mountain biking,and motor cycling.

[Fumesucker]

43. Using pot isn't dangerous...

And unprotected sex isn't dangerous when you've been monogamous for over a quarter century.

[jimmyflint]

44. well, of course there will be some exceptions.

But, I think it should be done for the greater good.

[Fumesucker]

41. There are no taxes on food?

Who knew? :shrug:

[Robb]

42. I know, right??

Maybe we should tax Hitler. Surely we can all agree on that.

[Sebastian Doyle]

53. You could cut obesity in half by banning high fructose corn poison

Tell me how you would make tobacco "safe".

[Rosa Luxemburg]

54. High fat and sugar foods should have warnings

Instead of 5 star system could have a red flag system - 5 flags worst, 4 bad, 3 not as bad, 2 borderline and 1 good. Also could have a gold star for slimming food?

[Silver Swan]

55. I'm fat and I'm old, but I'm not sick.

I blame beer.

But they already tax that.

[azmouse]

58. So the obese die earlier?

Doesn't that mean less health care costs for diseases of old age if they aren't around to see old age?

[otohara]

60. Yes, but on the way to your early death

you can rack up a lot of health bills for a multitude of problems that go with obesity.

Like the daily doses of a whole bunch of meds that might be avoided if people would just commit to eating healthier. American's prefer pills to treating the problem, Doctors prefer pills to get these sick people to stop whining and to make more money. Why spend 20 minutes with a patient explaining why what they eat is killing them, when it's so much easier ad takes only a few minutes to whip out a RX pad.

It's like when people who smoke say, well I'm going to die anyway.

Dying sometimes takes a very long time...even if you're very sick.

[Benedictine_09876]

59. tax the food corporations

Don't tax the obese- tax the food corporations that have been
putting high fructose corn syrup in everything from soda to
ketchup as a cheap sugar substitute. They have made billions
doing this and did not even pass the savings on to you. The
one thing they HAVE passed on to the American public is a 20
year rise in obesity- reaching epidemic proportions- and a
correlating rise in diabetes for all age groups. Make that a
retroactive tax with the money going toward healthcare,
specifically for obese related illnesses.

On second thought- a nice big lawsuit against the corporations
making and pushing HFCS in our food, without doing proper
studies on the long term effects, would be appropriate as
well.

[Deja Q]

63. Insurance companies have the same slogan as mcdonalds...

"i'm lovin' it"