There is no proof that Crowley intensionally lied on his report.

[intheflow]

Was his statement false? Absolutely.

But did he write his report after his interaction with Gates? Yes. Which means his memory may have been infected by his own racial biases in the situation. It is probably equally plausible that he did not intentionally lie to cover his ass but instead reported what he thought he remembered.

This could an example of how insidious and unconscious white privilege can be: white officer responds to call on a break-in (he did not hear the initial dispatch call, I'm certain) + two black men were involved = "I got a call to respond to black men doing a B&E". The assumption is wrong--that the call was specifically calling for action against suspected black criminals--but after the fact, as he was making his report, it's probably to be expected he would place his report within his own emotionally charged, racially biased recollection of the incident.

Not that it excuses the behavior, and not that cops don't lie on reports to cover their asses. I'm just saying it may not have been overt, intentional racism on his part, but rather the insidious scourge of white privilege that pervades our culture. It's a much deeper issue that simply good cop/bad cop.

[xultar]

1. Pass the buttah and salt

:popcorn:

[ronnykmarshall]

4. Co-cola?

[xultar]

29. Need rum too. Don't be skimpin on the refreshments.

[bridgit]

36. Hi guys, what's go'n on...

:bounce:

[xultar]

38. Nothin just watchin this craziness...and wishin I wasn't. It's like crack.

I can't turn away!

[bridgit]

42. hahaha, you got it it's like a Russian tunnel full of ice...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbMO94od8qA :headbang:

[xultar]

43. holee shit...yup these Gates threads (mine included) are just like that...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

2. Before you go all off on white people,

you might keep in mind that there was another witness at the scene, a witness who fits Crowley's description, and no one yet has stepped forward to clarify Crowley's report.

So, I would daresay that all the information isn't in, and we might want to step back from the lynching tree (the nice one, the one used for Caucasians) for a moment until the story is fully told.

It's changing daily, so let's be reasonable and wait to see where it goes, shall we?

[redqueen]

6. A "nice" lynching tree for Caucasians?

:wtf:

[ShamelessHussy]

16. Some live in alternate realities

Hence the popularity of programs like fox news.

[Spazito]

28. An interesting 'turn of phrase', isn't it...

:wtf: was my reaction as well.

[DireStrike]

56. Well I got it, at least.

Oops I forgot, there is never any humor in anything that has to do with race. Sorry.

[redqueen]

66. So... it's a joke?

I don't get it.

The phrase "lynching tree" brings up *very* ugly images... so maybe that's impinging on the joke for me.

[Quantess]

123. Oh yeah, that was HILARIOUS.

"lynching trees" are SOO funny.

[Number23]

132. That one is so far gone she's just a speck on the horizon

Every person on this site has seen it by now. From the comments about Michael Jackson to her constant references to the Duke Lacrosse case in reference to Gates ('cause you know, those two cases are so similar) it's out there for the entire world to see.

Gets her ass handed to her DAILY to no effect.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. It changing daily only means it was WRONG from the git go. nt

[JuniperLea]

120. All the more reason NOT to form an opinion on the details...

The only thing I see becoming clearer and clearer is that both parties overreacted and should have known better. Even Obama back-tracked and said they both overreacted.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall for the beer... mine's a full pint.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

134. No heroes in this one -

no victims, either.

But, the villagers are armed and frothing, and nothing can be better.

Just a pint?

Amateur............................

[JuniperLea]

156. LOL! To start, TLB! Just to start!

And it's full, a full pint. In some pubs you have to let them know you are paying attention, and not paying for a slighted pint, or a big empty head of froth... which brings us full circle:)

[intheflow]

18. Um, where did I go off on white people?

The way I see it, this is a post of the unconscious behavior of white privilege. That's not "going all off on white people." I am white. I'm actually advocating, well, not for the white officer here, but trying to stop the knee-jerk assumption that his report was something that was consciously racist. You can be racist and not prejudiced. That's kind of the whole point of white privilege, it acts through you in a way that you're not even conscious of.

[BlooInBloo]

47. "All the information isn't in" = "we haven't figured out the next lie to tell people yet".

:rofl:

[endarkenment]

84. Yes of course, don't discuss the flat out lies we know about

because there might be some other data we don't know about. Of course not. We should never take the facts at hand and analyze them. Bad idea. Requires thinking and in particular analytic skills. Much easier to sit back and get told what to think.

[lexanman]

130. "there was another witness at the scene, a witness who fits Crowley's description"

link please.

Or did you attend the same writing class as Crowley?

again...link please.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

133. It's in the news reports -

you're perfectly capable of reading them, the same way I did. Hardly obscure. A stable part of the news story.

I've never taken a writing class, but why do you ask?

[lexanman]

135. post the link then

[Tangerine LaBamba]

136. . .

[lexanman]

137. please post the link

pretty please. Show everybody here that the cop is just misunderstood.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

139. . . . . ... . . .

[lexanman]

141. show us the site oh Tangerine Esq.

post the link, its pretty simple.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

143. . . . . .

[lexanman]

145. you posted close to 4 paragraphs.

would it not have been easier to post the link? But you can't, can you?

[lexanman]

142. where is the other witness that fit Crowley's description

I didn't catch that in his report. Point it out. Show the link. We all wait with baited breath. You've been condesending in your posts to just about everybody here. And you've been proven wrong and covering for a lying cop time and time again. Its ok to admit you're wrong Tangerine. I know it's painful for you, but it's alright.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

144. . . . .

[lexanman]

146. Verbatim, by Tangerine La Bamba

"Before you go all off on white people,
you might keep in mind that there was another witness at the scene, a witness who fits Crowley's description, and no one yet has stepped forward to clarify Crowley's report."

If you now say it's not in Crowley's report, why the need to clarify?

And you are an attorney? For real? You're trying to lie out of a lie.

[redqueen]

150. Hi lexanman!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[lexanman]

157. hey

[Raineyb]

153. WTF?

I think I'm done reading anything you write.

[Cali_Democrat]

158. A tree used to lynch caucasians?

You just insulted the memory of every black person that was ACTUALLY lynched in the United States.

For you to be so cavalier using that term makes me sick.

[dsc]

3. He claims to have spoken to the person who placed the 911

the person who placed the 911 says he didn't. It hs hard to believe that one of them isn't lying.

[redqueen]

5. So, he accidentally lied?

Your third paragraph is hard to decipher... it seems like you're saying that racism makes people lie unconsciously. Is that it?

[intheflow]

19. Kind of.

I'm saying the least credible witnesses are often the people most closely tied into any given situation where emotions run high. Add race into the mix and I can see how someone could think they were giving a factual account and still get the facts wrong.

[marshall]

129. Hillary termed it "mis-spoke" when she did it

In reference to deplaning in Bosnia with Chelsea and having to dodge sniper fire.

[Iggo]

7. So he's not an asshole...he's just an idiot?

Wow. The people of Cambridge should breathe a sigh of relief.

[BlooInBloo]

9. Yep. Either way, he needs to be fired.

[intheflow]

24. I never said either.

I believe he could be both an asshole and an idiot, but he could be completely and blissfully unaware of these tendencies in himself. That's the so-called "gift" of his white privilege, most white Americans have the leisure of not even examining what motivates them in any given racial situation.

[xultar]

32. No, he is still an asshole and and an idiot, but may have memory issues.

[intheflow]

45. Self-delete.

Thought you were replying to my post.

[Ikonoklast]

73. Yeah. Their tax dollars bought this guy a handgun.

Or maybe he gets a weapon, but isn't allowed any ammunition.

They save that for the better-than-C-student hires.

[BlooInBloo]

8. lololol!

[Spazito]

10. His memory failed in less than 36 MINUTES? WOW!

From the police report, Sgt. Crowley was still in his cruiser at 12:44:00 pm when he heard the 'broadcast' and responded. His report was filed at 13:21:34. Again, that means the WHOLE incident from beginning to end was LESS than THIRTY-SIX MINUTES.

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

This memory thing seems to be the latest attempt to excuse the inexcusable, imo.

[intheflow]

27. Yes, and I'm sure he was completely over his emotional response to the situation by then.

Thankfully YOU never held onto your anger for longer than a half hour. Or said anything only a half hour after an emotional incident that you later regretted.

[Spazito]

39. Sgt. Crowley was acting in an official capacity with a great deal of power...

and authority given to him when he IS acting in an official capacity. While in that official position he deliberately misrepresented the facts in his OFFICIAL police report. To excuse him by saying he had an emotional response, a response that resulted in the ARREST of a citizen, that resulted in that citizen being handcuffed, fingerprinted, photographed for a mug shot, denied his freedom for hours is, imo, appalling.

[intheflow]

44. True.

But we are emotional creatures, we humans. To expect everyone in power (or without power for that matter) to be able to emotionally detach themselves from every professional interaction they have is unrealistic.

I am not defending Crowley's actions on the scene, which are completely indefensible. I am merely pointing out that the world is not as neatly black-and-white as many here would like to paint it. Particularly when it comes to blacks and white interacting. The vehicle which allowed Crowley to abuse his power was his badge, but the gas that fueled the abuse was white privilege.

[Spazito]

57. "what fueled the abuse was white privilege" is saying...

in effect, racism fueled the abuse. Are you saying there are 'degrees' of racism and the lesser 'degree' is excusable as long as it is not, to use your own words, " overt, intentional racism"? If so then you are enabling racism to continue unchallenged as long as it is of the 'lesser degree' and I find that to be disturbing to say the least.

[intheflow]

67. I never said racism didn't fuel the abuse.

And I NEVER said Crowley's actions were excusable. I'm amazed that so many here read my OP as saying that, because I do believe he is responsible for his actions which were reprehensible no matter what motivated them.

White privilege is racism so deeply ingrained in American (Western/European) culture that white people are often completely unaware of how it informs their actions when interacting with other races. So yes, I do believe there are degrees of racism. The black cop who profiles other blacks driving down the highway is not operating from overt racism, but out of law enforcement training that was developed from a white worldview that assumes blacks with cars are suspicious. That's a big difference from the overt racism that drives idiots to don white sheets and burn crosses.

I think in order for race relations to move forward in a meaningful way in this country, we have to acknowledge both conscious and unconscious racism exists. To lump all racism together gives the unconscious white racists a free pass to not examine how white privilege works through themselves and their communities. Because they can say, "Hey, my best friend is black!" Which may be true, but does that white person still cross the street when and unknown black man walks toward them on the sidewalk, without even thinking twice about why they're crossing the street? In many cases, yes.

Unconscious racism = white privilege. That's really all my OP was about.

[Spazito]

70. Your OP header is the why, imo, "so many here read my OP as saying that..."

"There is no proof that Crowley intensionally lied on his report." First, I, and it seems others, don't believe his misrepresentation of the facts was unintentional. Quite the opposite, imo, it was done VERY deliberately in order to justify a bogus arrest. Whether that intentional misrepresentation was due to "unconscious" racism or "conscious" racism, the fact is Sgt. Crowley misrepresented the facts in an OFFICIAL police report which, had the charges not been dropped, would have been used in court against Dr. Gates. That is unacceptable, period.

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. As I said in another thread, this is the real problem with profiling -

it encourages the officer to see what he EXPECTS to see, instead of what he DOES see, and that, of course, colors (so to speak) his recollection of the incident.

OTOH, he could just be lying.

Neither is better than the other.

[Karenina]

14. Did you read Leonard Pitt's piece?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6161771

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. No, I hadn't - thanks for the link.

Excellent piece.

[Karenina]

46. Having so prepped you, would you kindly indulge your Tante K.

in a story from her experience that SO EXTREMELY ILLUSTRATES the reality we share?

[RaleighNCDUer]

51. Sure - lay it on me. nt

[Karenina]

127. I'm in this club waiting to be called up to the stage

Horn in hand, reed in mouth, I was asked 5 TIMES if I was the singer and what I planned to sing. I waved it in front of my face, was pleasant about what I had in my hand, explaining what a reed was and that why I didn't sing was because there were minions who had better vocal pipes than I, smiled, schmoozed and upon the last inquiry as I approached the stage, WENT THE FUCK OFF.

DO YOUR ASSUMPTIONS PREVENT YOU SEEING THIS?

The place was packed, I was a bit nervous and already exhausted from the STUPID. (The owner had earlier suggested that I bring a "coupla girlfriends" by if I wanted to discuss booking my project... ) I got to the mic and made a joke meant to explain my reaction to this couple, secure that the music would find its mark. Called Jobim's "How Insensitive"

This is a version with Sting. He gets it. "Fragile" confirms that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8kddyBZEhM

What I'm trying to explain to you Raleigh, is that some people see THE COLOUR OF MY FACE which instantaneously blocks out ALL the other visual and psychic signals that might inform them who I am AS AN INDIVIDUAL. And THEN they're FUCKING RUDE.

[Raineyb]

154. Completely off topic but which sax do you play?

I used to play tenor.

[Karenina]

155. The double-reed kind!

;-) Have referred to da 'bo as a horn since my post adolescent club days... Talkin' like da boyz.

[TahitiNut]

13. A number of social biases could be involved. Age and education are among them.

It's NOT unusual for 'townies' to resent the academic community ... nor is it unusual for a younger, ambitious person to resent the older person in the collision of authority. At the same time, it's not unusual for professors to take an autocratic stance vs. someone of student age (or thereabouts) or for folks brought up in an inner city culture to be accustomed to police abuse -- and not see a visit from a cop as a "good thing."

It's a veritable Rorschach against which our social perceptions can be projected. The bottom line (imho) is that the charges of "disorderly conduct" were trumped up and not supported even by the Crowley's report - or by the absence of any yelling in the background on the recorded calls from Crowley to dispatch.

[NoQuarter]

17. Gates was not brought up

in an "inner city culture".

[TahitiNut]

25. You're probably more familiar with Piedmont, WV, than I am.

:shrug: I guess Gates was brought up to think of the police as good guys. :eyes:

[Hepburn]

15. Soooooo.....

....he had NO access to the 911 tape?

:eyes:

[Fumesucker]

20. True enough, but he may have *intentionally* lied on his report.. n/t

[bridgit]

21. i fold

[xultar]

30. ronnykmarshall and I are eating popcorn and drinkin rum and coke post # 2

come up and join us. Oh and bring the cards.

[bridgit]

34. Yay! I'll be right over ~

:kick:

[Forkboy]

71. Tell Ronny he is missed.

:(

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Riiiiight.

And when Ashley Todd carved a backwards B in her face, she accidently mistook herself for a large black man who ran off afterwards.

[BuyingThyme]

23. I think the fact that he left out the circumstances under which he entered the home

is a clear indication that it was not his intention to write an honest report.

[Solomon]

31. Why is everybody so keen on believing the "angry black male"

meme without question? See how easy it is. Keep saying Gates was angry, that's all you need to prove the cop wasn't racist, it was Gates who was the racist right?

Goddam some people. Put the proof right in your face and still all this fucking parsing and stretching and reaching to prove the cop is a good boy. On the other hand, just go ahead and assume Gates was yelling at him.

Did anybody hear any yelling on that tape? Doesn't matter does it. We all know that Gates insulted his momma.

Reminds me of Rodney King. Finally I said, they got it on tape. Then what happened? All the bullshit about "we don't know what he did before the tape started rolling." "See he raised his hand" (trying to cover his head from getting the shit beat out of it) It was despicable. "Angry black male" trumps all proof everytime.

Why can't people just accept that the cop fucked up? There are no excuses. He lied on his report. As simple as that. He wouldn't give his id. Simple as that.

Imagine what would have happened had the cop been black and the homeowner been white and the homeowner called the cop the "N" word. I can just hear all of y'all talking about how that's no excuse, he's got to be professional, and all that shit.

Geez people. The cop fucked up. Get over it.

[intheflow]

40. I never said Gates was to blame or got angry.

I said Crowley's report probably reflected his (Crowley's) racial biases and that his (Crowley's) emotions were probably still running high. My post didn't say anything about Gates himself. Stop projecting.

If Gates yelled at Crowley he had every right in the world to do so. I can say that without buying into some "angry black man" meme, can't I?


Edited b/c my typing sucks.

[EFerrari]

75. Exactly. And this particular cop knows the way it works so well

he even invented a white women that called him to respond to a tale of two black men. He's a POS.

[Karenina]

33. Be that as it may, he is GUILTY of abusing his position.

"It is probably equally plausible that he did not intentionally lie to cover his ass but instead reported what he thought he remembered. "
And embellished to cover his own ass.

ALL of his perceptions were "infected." As were Skip's. Professor Gates will search his soul and share his findings with us all. I wonder if the good Sgt. can be persuaded to do the same... ;-)

[Fuzz]

35. Maybe he's a pot smoker.

;)

[intheflow]

41. ..

:spray:

[Iggo]

37. "I lost my temper. I screwed up. I'm sorry."

They could've taken care of this the very first day at the police station.

As is often the case, the fix looks so easy in retrospect.

[4lbs]

59. They screwed it up worse at the police station.

Remember, Gates was suffering from a bout of bronchitis, and at the police station, people saw his breathing was labored but didn't do anything about it.

Not until his friend showed up and got the police to give Gates medical attention.

[Iggo]

61. Yep. You're right.

This was never gonna work out right.

[rucky]

81. This sums up the whole mess. n/t

[Bobbie Jo]

48. Being in such a position of power over an individual's freedom, he had better get it fucking right

99% of the time.

but that's just my opinion, of course.

[intheflow]

52. It would be great if we could get that kind of accuracy rate!

But until society places more emphasis on having compassionate police forces than police whose first instinct is to incarcerate, I'm afraid we're going to keep having these kinds of colossal fuck ups at an alarmingly high rate. :(

[merh]

49. Yes, there is proof.

The recorded conversations he had with the radio room do not support his version of events.

The fact that he charged Gates for one crime for acts that were not illegal - his false arrest and then the efforts to cover his ass in his report - prove that he intentionally did lie in his report.

He made a retailitory arrest, he called out other officers to the scene to create a "crowd" - he was manufacturing evidence so to speak - to try to create a necessary element of the crime he wanted to charge Gates with and he called Gates out to the porch (while he ignored MA law that required he provide his identification card upon request).

Yes, there is plenty of proof.

[EFerrari]

65. He couldn't misremember a conversation with a woman he didn't talk to.

Yep. He lied on purpose.

[merh]

68. Have you listened to the recording of all of the audio on this?

Even on tape, when Crowley tells dispatch Gates' name and they ask if the other units are needed, he responds "yes".

I mean, why - if he knew the lawful resident was in his own house, did he call for back up?

And I don't hear the carrying on he claims was happening either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITl55WTyIRY

I wonder if Gates' call to the chief's office was recorded.

[EFerrari]

72. I haven't listened to this, not. But you bring up a great point.

What the hell does he need back up for? I can see needing it BEFORE you determine who is in the house but not AFTER.

[merh]

79. He was manufacturing his "public"

he thought a crowd of cops would do or would cause the passers-by to stop and gawk and become the "others that could be provoked into violence".

[EFerrari]

82. That actually happened at our house once

when the cops were so sick of Doug popping his cork and yet not really having any grounds to cuff him. A whole troop of them showed up and I told them if I'd known they were all coming, I'd have made breakfast. lol

[merh]

104. Or at least had enough coffee and a few dozen doughnuts for them.

:rofl:

[merh]

109. Look at this, you can still see the lies (or NYT's inaccurate reporting.)

=====================
As the encounter between the two men escalated, the Cambridge police tried to reach Sergeant Crowley on his radio at least three times, but he did not respond, police officials said, revealing previously unreported details. Because of his worrisome silence, they said, six more police cars soon clogged the one-way street, surprising Professor Gates. By 12:51 p.m., he was in handcuffs, charged with disorderly conduct. Friends say the two men who met at the front door of the trim yellow house on Ware Street were the unlikeliest of people to be caught in such a struggle.

For most of his life, Professor Gates had gone out of his way to avoid confrontation with the police, even introducing himself at the station when he moved to Lexington, Mass., in the 1990s, in hopes that he, a black man driving a Mercedes, would not be pulled over constantly.

Professor Gates has dozens of honorary degrees and is such a fixture of Harvard Square that a beloved student hangout named a burger after him. Everyone at Harvard knows him — charismatic and distinctive with his impeccable suits and cane, the result of a longtime disability.

Sergeant Crowley was a trusted adviser of the Cambridge police commissioner, known for his even temperament and as a role model to younger officers. He is a new-generation officer who has not only been indoctrinated with racial sensitivity, but also teaches other officers how to avoid racial profiling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/us/27gates.html?em

------------------------------
You can here Crowley say he still wants back up - the didn't just arrive out of concern.

[EFerrari]

112. LOL. Oh, brother. n/t

[Spazito]

119. Holy crap! That HAD to have been written before they released the calls!

The tape of the ECC communications are very clear. Here is the time sequence:

One minute into the tape, Crowley has not yet encountered Dr. Gates

40 seconds later Crowley is saying "the man is being "uncooperative""

Seconds later Crowley asks for the Harvard Police and says "Keep the cars coming."

So, it seems Sgt. Crowley took ONE MINUTE 42-3? SECONDS from the point of interacting with Dr. Gates to want to "Keep the cars coming."

How soon after that did the "police call for "the wagon."?

The WHOLE incident took less than 36 minutes from the time Sgt. Crowley heard the dispatch to when he FILED his official police report.

From his police report:

Time of incident: 12:44:00

Time of Incident Report Entered: 13:21:34

[merh]

121. my apologies, it was published on the 26th.

Guess that is just one of the versions being promoted until the audio tapes were listened to and then made public.

[Spazito]

124. I am VERY glad you did post it!

Someone else posted that 'being out of communication' being the reason for all the cars' without any links, it was yesterday I think, and I wondered about it. I appreciate you giving me the link as I am adding it to my favorites as another example of the lies that are being told by those in authority, lies that are continuing to be proven as such.

So, again, thanks for posting it, it is much appreciated!

[4lbs]

50. The audio of the 911 call refutes most of Crowley's police report.

So.... which to believe?

[intheflow]

55. I'm not saying he didn' t file a factually incorrect report.

I'm saying there are a lot of reasons while he may have done so, including reasons of white privilege so deeply ingrained in him that he was completely unconscious of his motivations.

[4lbs]

58. That really doesn't make it any better. Falsifying a police report is bad no matter if it was

intentional.

It's the officer's responsibility to make sure it is as factual as possible.

Crowley didn't do that.

You know why it's important to make sure the report is as factual as possible? Many times those reports will be used in court trials as evidence.

[intheflow]

63. Please show me where in this thread I said Crowley shouldn't be held accountable.

My OP was really meant to be more about white privilege than this particular case, but emotions are running high all around and not many seem to be "hearing" what I was saying. Of course, it could be that I just didn't communicate my thoughts very well, either.

[4lbs]

64. You said there was no proof that Crowley intentionally lied on the police report.

How can that happen?

How can someone not intentionally lie? A lie, by default, must be intentional, because it's a conscious act.

[intheflow]

69. You've never been in a situation with other people

and had completely different recollections of what happened later? This happens all the time. It's what makes eyewitness testimony so easy to pick apart in many cases. Not remembering an emotional scene with robotic accuracy is part and parcel of being human.

My OP was never meant to be about the entirely of Crowley's behavior but rather looking at one part of his actions that are not necessarily as cut and dried as most DUers and the media want to paint it. I'm saying in culture where unconscious racism exists, for him to write that he was responding to a call about a black man breaking into a house, it may be more about what he was projecting after the fact through the lens of white privilege than what he experienced IRL.

[4lbs]

117. Sure, weeks later. My memory would fail... weeks or months later.

If an officer's memory fails just several hours after the incident, when he is filling out the incident report, maybe that officer should consider another line of work.

[lexanman]

131. That happened to me too when I was a kid

my older brother used to beat me up and then he had a completely different recollection of it when asked by our mother later on. He told her he remembered me hitting myself, and trying to defend himself agaist me(I was 9 years younger than him and much smaller).

Grown up, thinking back, he was a bald faced fucking liar. That is what it's called. a LIAR.

[EFerrari]

74. I hear what you're saying, I just don't agree with you this time.

Couples all the time do what you're describing when they recount their arguments, don't they? It's two different events.

But, there's enough evidence of bad faith on Crowley's part to rule that out. Plus, when asked about the discrepancy, Crowley himself doesn't even acknowledge room for variation or error. He stands by his report.

[intheflow]

90. Well, again, that's white privilege, isn't it?

The president has to apologise for calling Crowley stupid (when he was) but Crowley can stand by his biased report without admitting he was wrong.

Besides, my post wasn't about the totality of Crowley's report, just the part where he said he was responding to a call regarding a black man. Would that the DU edit period lasted longer than an hour! I would edit the shit out of my OP to clarify I really meant this post to be about WP much more than about Crowley, per se. First thing to change would be my crappy, non-specific title! :blush: I hate it when I write poorly.

[EFerrari]

92. The way I can agree with your point about white privilege

is insofar as white privilege makes a lie that harms a person of color somehow less false.

[merh]

62. Sorry, he is the trainer at the Police Academny on how to avoid

racial profiling and how to handle just this type of situation. As a cop, he is trained on how to handle disturbances and he knew from the get go he couldn't charge Gates with a crime while Gates was in his house.

He intentionally lied, you may want to refer to it as exaggerated, embellished or even fudged, but he did file a report that contained falsehoods and those falsehoods were in his report for the purpose of covering his ass and creating a crime that could be pursued against Gates.

[KamaAina]

53. Sounds like a distinction without a difference to me

"the insidious scourge of white privilege that pervades our culture" is pretty much where racism comes from. For every Pat Bukkkanan or David Dukkke, there are dozens of Crowleys out there. :eyes:

[jpak]

54. false report + false arrest = lying stupidly

:D

[Iggo]

60. He lied. It's obvious.

"He might've forgotten what happened" is just too much of a stretch for the thinking man.

[teachableseconds]

76. I agree with you in part, but it may have zero to do with racism!

I am banking on that, given everything I have heard about him and what he does (the racial profiling classes do mean something to me). I would like to see any of us, given info from various sources, deal with an intensely emotional situation and then go back and write a report which is 100% on the money with every little detail. I read where people were excited that the witness never said the race of the 'suspects,' but what about when we hear the dispatcher say "WHITE, BLACK or HISPANIC?" It seems like it caused a bit of deflation, so some people glommed onto the hope that Crowley was a lying, racist cop. That's not right. We should always see and hope for the best in others.

[Spazito]

77. Sgt. Crowley is a trained professional and, as such, is not only expected to...

but is OBLIGATED to "go back and write a report that is 100% on the money". It is his job, it goes along with being given the power and authority over the citizens of his state when acting in an OFFICIAL capacity as he was doing in this incident.

I get that you "see and hope for the best" in Sgt. Crowley and would like to know whether you apply that as well to Dr. Gates and, if so, please explain further.

[teachableseconds]

78. I'll put it this way: I don't think Professor Gates is an evil person,

but when I heard that statement about "you don't know who you're dealing with," I immediately felt like I knew what had happened. He felt so 'esteemed' that this was a grave insult! And you know the old saying: "The higher you rise, the harder you fall." Egos are dangerous things. Success can be a dangerous thing. I am just glad that our Prez knew how to dig himself out of that one! I saw the initial statement ('acted stupidly') and the backtracking one and I thought he handled himself beautifully.

[Spazito]

83. Ahhh, I see! You always strive to "see and hope for the best in others" but...

only in 'chosen' "others". Very enlightening, very enlightening indeed.

[teachableseconds]

88. Why did you use the word 'chosen?'

I never have said that police officers should be allowed to do whatever they wish with the public. Given the facts I have been presented, I feel that Gates had an attitude that day. He resented the imposition. I have met people who won't even cooperate with you by answering a simple question. I call them 'problem personalities.' Not sure if Gates is always like this, was just tired, or what, but the only question is whether he should have been arrested for disorderly conduct. Yeah, I'll bet the cop did it to teach him a lesson and I can't say I blame him. Just saying 'yo mama' to a cop should get you put in the slammer for a few hours!:rofl:

[EFerrari]

96. That's what Sergeant Jim Crow said. He found Gates' tone disturbing.

Unfortunately, a person's "tone" is not an arrestable offense. But you support retaliatory arrests? Jim, is that you?

[Spazito]

100. The very fact you use the "yo mama" quote...

as if it is 'gospel truth' is exactly why I used the word "chosen". Your slip is not just showing a bit, it is in full view. The hole you are digging for yourself is getting ever deeper, keep digging.

[teachableseconds]

102. You are absolutely right...There was no tape of him saying that, although

there was supposedly another cop in the room when this happened (oh, forgot, all cops are lying pigs. Forgive me!:sarcasm: )

Don't "Sgt. Crowley-ize" me. Don't smear me and question my intentions. The only "hole" that exists is the chasm being created by chronic anger.

[Spazito]

105. I see you have NOT done your homework, gosh, I'm shocked...

Sgt. Figuerao, the second officer on scene DID NOT report Dr. Gates as having said anything of the sort when he filed his OFFICIAL police report and, indeed, it seems he was NOT in the room when this "supposedly" was said. It is only Sgt. Crowley says this was said, Dr. Gates says it is untrue.

Given we know Sgt. Crowley deliberately misrepresented the facts in his OFFICIAL police report with regard to his non-existent conversation with the person who called 911 it stands to reason his citing of the Ya mama" comment is likely more fabrication.

[teachableseconds]

106. Has Gates refuted it? n/t

[Spazito]

108. Yes, he has n/t

[EFerrari]

87. And those are your projections. n/t

[rucky]

110. he delivered on his warning

this went straight to the top.

[EFerrari]

86. Your point about the dispatcher actually damns Crowley

not the other way around. He needed a black suspect so he invented two.

[intheflow]

91. "We should always see and hope for the best in others."

Thanks, Pollyanna. That's the mentality that gave us 8 years of Bush/Cheney. :eyes:

[teachableseconds]

93. Wow, so now Crowley is the equivalent of Bush/Cheney?!

:crazy:

[intheflow]

97. No, but assuming everyone should be given a free pass is naive.

It's called hiding your head in the sand.

[teachableseconds]

99. Hey, I am far from naive, but the information we have been given just doesn't support the charges.

Why are so many people automatically against the cop? We can make the same charge that too many people are prejudiced against cops automatically and never will give them the benefit of the doubt and I happen to think it's unfair!

I am not worried about Gates. Even if he couldn't find his ID, it would come out that he was a professor at Harvard. Far from the average Black man in inner city America without Gates' prestige, money, and connections. He just came back from China, is on vacation now, so don't expect this from me::nopity:

[EFerrari]

103. Gates was working in China. And his father worked in a paper mill.

Gates earned everything he has. What do you have against the American dream?

Enjoy your stay at DU.

[teachableseconds]

107. People were saying that one reason he was cranky was that he had just had a grueling flight

from China. There is work and then there's work. Digging ditches and working on a documentary and/or doing research are two different animals.

And thanks for the welcome! That was very nice of you! :hi:

[EFerrari]

111. So, your beef with Gates is that he didn't work hard enough

for what he has?

Wow.

[teachableseconds]

113. Not 'hard enough,' but I think that overall, he has a charmed life, don't you?

Have you read his memoir called 'Colored People?' I have. I went to the library the other day to refresh my memory on some of the stuff he wrote. One thing grabbed me: when he talks about being blessed with intelligence and a good memory and doing well in school. Not everyone has that giftedness. You can be born into a low-income situation in a rural area and make a great life for yourself even if all you have is a great mind. It worked for my mom. And she's a minority too, by the way.

*I contrast this with a poor Black man in the inner city who is functionally illiterate. When both men get picked up erroneously by the cops, who is going to be let go and who molders in prison?

[EFerrari]

116. Go run down for yourself all the stuff Gates has done.

It's amazing. In addition to that mind and intellect, the man is a workaholic. He managed to pull together 8 vols of African American biographies where there before was zip. He pulled together WEB Dubois's idea of an encyclopedia of African and African American experience and culture. He's more responsible than just about anyone I can think of for rescuing and preserving black history. And that's just two of the many projects he's quarterbacked. You don't get all of that done as a slouch or a skater.

And Skip Gates is going to be the first one that you can talk to about class. He comes from poor, then working class families and he's written about class extensively. It's not a new idea to him of all people.

But, the fact that someone from a different class would be treated worse than Gates doesn't mitigate what was done to him.

[teachableseconds]

118. When I went to the library and looked him up

I was flabbergasted at the amount of books he has published. I never, ever said the man was a slacker, so please don't mischaracterize me. I believe that in our country, people who do the 'shit work:' repetitive, dangerous, dirty, physically tiring jobs are paid the lowest wages. I always hear about 'unskilled labor.' WTF is that shite?! People who clean up after the rest of us and break their backs deserve good wages and respect. People who get esteem are usually paid very well and their work is of a mental level. Doesn't mean it's a walk in the park and should be dismissed as such, but it tends to be very enjoyable and there are major perks.

[EFerrari]

122. I've done both. I've hung drywall in my family's business

and I've been an instructor at Cal. Yes, hanging drywall requires much more physical exertion. On the other hand, I was never asked to work 1/2 again as many unpaid hours at that job as I worked at the university as the hours I was paid.

But, as Skip Gates worked his way into the position he has now, I don't see how that is point against him. If anything, it shows you how hard he was willing to work to even have a shot at the profession he wanted. You don't suddenly wake up one day as a Harvard professor. What happens is that you work your ass off day and night for years while other people are having holiday dinners and going on vacation. I didn't see my family for a holiday dinner from 1985 to 1996, lol, because I had to work. No, I was not hanging drywall those years but I was working anyway, i.e., not free to do what I'd like to do.

Btw, Gates' mom was a maid for a white family while he was growing up.

[teachableseconds]

125. As to your last point, I posted that very factoid. Also, you used the name 'Skip.'

Am I to assume that you know him personally?

[EFerrari]

126. No, I don't know Skip Gates personally. Too bad, too.

I love his work.

[rucky]

80. I think I'm going to go with Occam on this one.

[ColbertWatcher]

85. Just another isolated incident. n/t

[intheflow]

94. That's not what I'm saying at all!

I'm saying racism and white privilege are so deeply ingrained in our culture that people don't even know it affects how they interact with others. That's hardly calling this just another isolated incident. To my thinking, it takes the onus away from this being an isolated incident and moves the blame into systemic cultural biases.

[ColbertWatcher]

98. But, it still takes Crowley's responsibility for his own actions away from him.

Moving the "blame into systemic cultural biases" may not be another isolated incident, but it seems to remove Crowley from full responsibility since it's all "systemic".

I don't know how productive it is to make excuses for the bigoted.

[intheflow]

101. I don't see how my OP

takes the responsibility of Crowley's actions off him. I don't state he should not be held responsible for his individual actions. Aren't both true, we are each responsible for our own actions AND we are motivated by cultural assumptions and biases? I don't see how saying that takes any responsibility off Crowley or makes excuses for his bigotry.


Edited for spelling.

[ColbertWatcher]

147. "we are each responsible for our own actions AND we are motivated ..." True.

But, isn't this guy supposed to be some kind of "anti-bias" instructor? Of course, I assuming he has received some kind of training to be aware of his own presumptions and prejudices.

There's just something about his behavior that makes me wonder if he hasn't just become adept at hiding his hatred behind his training.

I have nothing to base this on beyond my own suspicions, but I wouldn't be surprised if he allowed the idea that some vague institution was to blame.

I doubt he will publicly admit to being wrong in this or any instance.

[goodhue]

89. I'm not sure about his intentionality, but he fabricated a conversation with Whalen

He said this in his police report:
"As I reached the door, a female voice called out to me. I turned and looked in the direction of the voice and observed a white female, later identified as Lucia Whalen. Whalen, who was standing on the sidewalk in front of the residence held a wireless telephone in her hand and told me that it was she who called. She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street. She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry. Since I was the only police officer on location and had my back to the front door as I spoke with her, I asked that she wait for other responding officers while I investigated further."

Yesterday CNN reported this:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/gates.arrest/

Attorney Wendy Murphy, who represents Whalen, also categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."

She added, "I'm not sure what the police explanation will be. Frankly, I don't care. Her only goal is to make it clear she never described them as black. She never saw their race. ... All she reported was behavior, not skin color."

Calls to the Cambridge Police Department about the issue have not been returned. Police Commissioner Robert Haas told reporters at a news conference Monday that the 911 tape and police transmission from that day "speak for themselves, and I would ask that you form your own opinion." He added that police always ask themselves: "If I had to do it over again, what would I have done differently?"

"This matter is not resolved," Haas said. "We have a long way to go. We recognize that we are going to take advantage of the situation and we're going to learn from it. We're going to move forward."

[intheflow]

95. Thanks for the clarification.

I was specifically talking about his saying two black males, but thought it referred to his conversation with dispatch, not with his claimed conversation with Whalen.

[Lord Helmet]

114. Lame excuses for a bullshit arrest.

[maglatinavi]

149. false arrests

In ca. i read a police report where the cops say they talked with a man who said he was going to meet a drug dealer... the police report doesn't say that they saw the accused dealing in drugs; yet he was arrested, convicted ... and then the public defender lied to him about plea bargaining ... the man was an uneducated legal mexican that had been working with the same employer for years and vouched for him in writing. Unfortunately that is another kind of injustice that happens all the time... some public defenders making defendants plea bargain to avoid going to trial ... and meanwhile getting public funds for their halfhearted defenses ... it is a shame ...
Maybe this incident and the lies will bring awareness to the public about the many injustices in the justice system ... thanks to Dr. Gates for bringing the ugly truth to the surface; if it had been any black "joe" he would be in jail...
Hope Obama is getting the information correctly...

[seabeyond]

115. he knows if he talked to that woman or not. if his short term memory is so poor to remember

having a conversation with a witness, then he should not be a cop.

he lied

[bemildred]

128. Indeed, we all have to make our own judgement. I know I've arrived at mine. nt

[EFerrari]

140. Ms. Whalen is holding a press conference tomorrow. The scene continues. n/t

[bemildred]

151. Yeah, that ought to be good. nt

[Name removed]

138. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fascisthunter]

148. fail

lol

[DefenseLawyer]

152. Police officers lie to make cases.

Every day. Sadly they don't think there is anything wrong with it. The end justifies the means and the "fudging" of the facts a little bit just makes everything go more smoothly. It is standard operating procedure, not some aberration in this particular case. It has nothing to do with fuzzy memories. It has to do with knowing how things needed to happen in order to justify a search or an arrest and a general disdain for the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments, which are seen as a pain in the ass instead of cherished rights.

[ConsAreLiars]

159. Damn,a late read, too late to recommend, and I see the pro-racism pro-pig crowd

has been very busy with their unrecs. Yeah, not all cops are pigs, but those who act like pigs deserve being called out. Defending them is the same as encouraging them, which, I guess, is the goal of those who unrecc'd your very simple and straight forward statement of the mere facts of the matter.