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Wasn't Everybody Totally Pissed Off Because They Thought Sen. Gillibrand Was WAY To Conservative????

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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 02:53 PM
Original message
Wasn't Everybody Totally Pissed Off Because They Thought Sen. Gillibrand Was WAY To Conservative????
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 02:56 PM by Beetwasher
Whuh happened? Is this one of those pleasantly surprised cases, where a politician ran more conservative (or seemed moreso) because she was running in a conservative district, but given the breathing room, she could actually be much more progressive (as perhaps she wanted to be)?:

Senator wins review of 'don't ask, don't tell'

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/28/MNRJ18VSSS.DTL

Kudos to Sen. Gillibrand!! Pretty damn good replacement for Clinton, at least so far, donch'ya think?
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Apparently she's anti-choice and very pro-gun, though.
Correct me on the anti-choice part if I'm wrong, though.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Evidence?
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 02:59 PM by Beetwasher
Evidence please. Not statements that she personally is against abotion, but evidence that she would support legislation limiting choice.

As far as pro-gun, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It depends on whether she supports common sense gun control. Again, evidence please.
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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. she is not anti-choice
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/24/nyregion/24gillibrand.html


"she favors the English language-only movement as well as abortion rights.."
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. She's endorsed by NARAL:
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. OK, OK, I'm wrong, then.
It's worth pointing out I was just going on memory--apparently my memory was wrong.
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Understandable. I'm in NY and was worried about her because
she was a self-proclaimed Blue Dog. So I've watched her very carefully and paid attention to her endorsements. I'm still a bit concerned on some fronts, but her pro-choice standing seems very solid. :-)
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Well, how DARE you?
That NEVER happens to me!!!!!! :hi:
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. No Problem
n/t
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. She hasn't been very "pro-gun" in the Senate so far
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 03:55 PM by derby378
Charles Schumer and the Brady Campaign have been leaning heavily on her, and her votes on gun legislation show it. Carolyn Maloney may still challenge her in the primary anyway.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Also Remember
As an upstate congresswoman, any other position other than "pro-gun" would have been difficult. Lot's of hunters upstate.

IMO, you can be "pro-gun" and still support common sense legislation regarding gun control.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Depends on what that "common sense legislation" is
Everyone's going to have their own definition of the phrase. I think having to report lost or stolen guns to local law enforcement is a good idea - it could help cut down on the black market. But restricting sales to one gun per month? That's going to be a tough sell outside of New Jersey.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Of Course It Depends
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 04:11 PM by Beetwasher
I'm just saying, it's not necessarily so black and white. And as a Statewide office holder now, as opposed to just upstate NY, she can do things and support stuff that may have been more difficult before.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. Ooh!
A review!

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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. Not everyone, just a vocal minority that never...
bothered to look below the surface. Now there's still a crew, getting samller mind you, that insists on a primary challenge "for the sake of democracy" or some such thing.

The rest of us started out giving her a chance and rather quickly found her to be a pretty good team player.

She's my Senator, and I will be happily voting for her.



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rvablue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Good. The only reason Mahoney wants to primary Gillibrand is
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 03:49 PM by rvablue
because Maloney thinks that she should have been appointed instead.

Maybe so, maybe not. But that is besides the point now.

Gillibrand has done well for the people of NY as well as helping to forward the President's agenda.

A primary in NY next year is a huge waste of time, money and energy that will be needed elsewhere if we are going to maintain or increase our majority in the Senate.

Mahoney needs to check her ego.


ed: sp.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yes, Mahoney Needs To Step Back
She's doing well. She's been a surprisingly strong, progressive voice (at least so far).
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. Conservative? Liberal?
She's running for office statewide. Is she doing the DADT thing because she is passionately committed? Or is she doing it because it will position her strongly in a Democratic primary?

I don't know the answer to that question. But I won't judge her record on the basis of one thing, or on the basis of her past representation in a conservative district, or by anything else that is fleeting. I truly hope she turns out to be a good senator, because she will most certainly probably get elected.

But I've been around these parts too often to see people get elated about a politician one moment and then turn around and attack them the next.

I'm glad about the DADT hearings, but I haven't yet decided that that makes Ms. Gillebrand a "liberal" on all matters.

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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. It's Not One Thing
It's just the latest thing. She's been pretty good, IMO. Is there something she's done that you don't like? Praytell?

So, a politician has to be "liberal" on "all matters" before they get your support? Good luck w/ that.
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. No, it's not that I like her or don't like her
And she's not my senator, so I won't be voting for or against her. I don't really know that much about her record so far in the Senate (though I was very disappointed in her introduction speech for Sotomayor: she has a lot to learn.)

I was just trying to comment on the "saint one day, sinner the next" phenomenon I see around these parts all the time, whether towards media personalities or politicians.

Just because she was instrumental in calling for the DADT hearings, I don't necessarily think that makes her very liberal: revoking DADT is a commonsense, widely supported position. I have a strong feeling they gave Sen. Gillebrand the lead on this because it gives her political capital. I'm surprised they didn't give it to Arlen Spector, who we all know isn't liberal.

I'm glad you like her as your senator. I am totally commenting on "process," not the substance of any individual.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Saint One Day, Sinner Next
Yeah, well that was kinda my point. People jumped on her before they really knew anything about her. She's come down consistently on the correct side of things (at least IMO). Just FYI, she's not my Sen., I live in NJ, so I can't vote for her either. Though I lived in NY most of my life and work there.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. Yes, she is a rising star, IMO. I love her. Nonetheless,
You can bet that Paterson will not get credit for having exercised good judgment in choosing her to replace Clinton.
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. Nate Silver originally sounded the alarm on her.
he first said this:

1.23.2009
link
Is Kennedy's Loss Conservatives' Gain?
by Nate Silver @ 9:28 AM

More on this later on, but if as is widely anticipated, Kristin Gillibrand is named today as the junior senator from New York, this is not a terrific outcome for progressive Democrats. Gillibrand, statistically speaking, has been one of the more conservative Democrats in the House. Moreover, she is a somewhat proud conservative, being a member of the Blue Dog caucus. In a state like New York, which is capable of electing and re-electing a very liberal senator, that's a somewhat underachieving result for the Democrats.

And I know the objection/counterargument: Gillibrand was representing a relatively conservative district in upstate New York; perhaps she will change her stripes and become more liberal upon representing the entire state. I don't doubt that's true to an extent. But Gillibrand's R+3 district wasn't that conservative by any means, especially since an upstate New York sort of conservative is different from an Alabama sort of conservative. I think, in other words, that her conservativism (or moderateness, really), is in substantial part a matter of her personal philosophy rather than merely an attempt to position herself politically.

I also don't doubt that she'll be effective, compelling and popular, and may turn out to be a very good senator for New York. I just don't know that she'll be an especially good senator for Democrats.


and now says this:

6.06.2009
link
New York's Gillibrand Has Become Lockstep Liberal
by Nate Silver @ 3:06 PM

New York voters seeking a progressive alternative to Senator Kirsten Gillibrand may have found one: Gillibrand herself.

According to ratings compiled by ProgressivePunch.org (Progressive Punch founder Joshua Grossman is a contributor to FiveThirtyEight.com), Gillibrand has thus far compiled a progressive score of 98.45% in the 111th Congress, and 94.12% on critical votes. Although there has been little to distinguish the first 30 or so Democratic senators, most of whom have voted in lockstep with the President's agenda, those scores rank Gillibrand 15th among the 59 Democratic Senators; her ratings are essentially identical to those of reliably liberal Senators like Tom Harkin and Pat Leahy, as well as those of her colleague in the Senate, Chuck Schumer. Gillibrand has also been among the most liberal of the 11 freshman Democratic Senators:

Progressive Scores for Freshman Democrats
ProgressivePunch.org
Merkley OR 98.69%
Burris IL 98.65%
Kaufman DE 98.65%
Gillibrand NY 98.45%
T. Udall NM 96.73%
Shaheen NH 95.33%
M. Udall CO 92.16%
Warner VA 90.20%
Begich AK 89.47%
Bennet CO 88.89%
Hagan NC 88.08%

It's not as though Gillibrand, who rated as a relatively conservative Democrat while representing New York's 20th Congressional District in the House of Representatives, has done much to conceal her newly more liberal politics; she flipped to become a supporter of gay marriage almost immediately upon taking office, for instance, and she has become a regular contributor on progressive websites like Daily Kos and The Huffington Post.

Still, this might help to explain why the White House has been not-so-subtly trying to dissuade other Democrats -- first Steve Israel and then Carolyn Maloney, both U.S. Representatives with solidly liberal voting records -- from issuing a primary challenge to Gillibrand.

Voting this way, of course, is probably an asset to Gillibrand in New York, where Obama retains a 73 percent approval rating, including getting the thumbs-up from about half of the state's small but hearty base of Republicans. It's a reminder, indeed, that with very few exceptions, electoral considerations bear far more firmly on a Congressperson's voting record than any sort of deep-seated personal convictions.


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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Carolyn Maloney voted enthusiastically for the Iraq War Resolution, AND
subsequent war extension/financing legislation.

Not quite the pacifist she paints herself as, is she?
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
23. Yyyup. n/t
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