Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Australia: Olympic gold medalist Ian Thorpe speaks out against Aboriginal “intervention”

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 02:57 AM
Original message
Australia: Olympic gold medalist Ian Thorpe speaks out against Aboriginal “intervention”
Corporate media promotion of sports stars is an all-pervasive feature of contemporary life — until, that is, the celebrities start speaking out about social injustice or publicly criticising government policy. When that happens, they are either denounced or — if the individual happens to be widely respected and popular amongst broad layers ordinary people — subjected to a media blackout.

Retired Australian swimming champion, 26-year-old Ian Thorpe... was the youngest ever male world champion and a year later broke four world records in four days. In 2000 he was made Young Australian of the Year... The media could not get enough of him....

This month, however, the situation changed. The reason? The former champion had spoken out at a Beyond Sport summit meeting in London about the nation’s “dirty little secret” — the ongoing poverty and social oppression of Australia’s indigenous population...

Thorpe began by explaining that, having fulfilled his sporting ambitions whilst still a teenager, he could now use his profile to assist others less fortunate. At the age of 18 he established his own charity, Fountain for Youth...

Thorpe went on to cite some of the problems confronting the indigenous communities with which his organization works...

The Olympic gold medalist then went on to direct his fire against the Northern Territory “intervention”, the program initiated in June 2007 by the former Howard government, with Labor Party support, under the false claims that it was aimed at protecting Aboriginal children in the Northern Territory from child abuse. The raft of punitive measures that have since been introduced include compulsory income management of all Aboriginal welfare and pension recipients, suspension of the Racial Discrimination Act (1975) and the seizure of Aboriginal controlled land...the Rudd Labor government has maintained these retrogressive social policies in the face of growing Aboriginal opposition...

“Once more an Australian government has claimed it is doing its best for Aboriginal Australians by taking over their communities, appointing white managers, more government bureaucrats, promising all kinds of things, if Aboriginal people will just sign over their communities under forty-year leases to the Federal Government. And politicians wonder why Aboriginal people do not trust them. The truth is for over 200 years Australian governments have neglected and patronized Aboriginal people.

“The intervention is unlikely to provide any lasting benefit to Aboriginal people because it tries to push and punish them, to take over their lives, rather than work with them.”

While Thorpe concluded his speech with a promise that he and his charity... would fight to overcome the devastating poverty and health problems, his decision to speak the truth about the “intervention” and other dirty secrets of Australian capitalism were taboo as far as the Australian media were concerned.

The former swimming champion’s speech, which was delivered on July 9, was not reported by a single major news outlet until July 24, more than two weeks later, and then only in one brief article in the Australian newspaper. No other mainstream newspaper commented on the speech.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jul2009/thor-j29.shtml
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. Suggestion to the Aussie natives: Don't sign anything they give you....
It's either bad, or they won't keep their word.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. I don't understand. Didn't Rudd formally apologize?
Or, did the Australian media only cover it because Rudd's the PM?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. apologize for what?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. ... (EDITED)
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 03:39 AM by ColbertWatcher
(...)

"We apologise for the laws and policies of successive Parliaments and governments that have inflicted profound grief, suffering and loss on these our fellow Australians.

"We apologise especially for the removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children from their families, their communities and their country.

"For the pain, suffering and hurt of these Stolen Generations, their descendants and for their families left behind, we say sorry.

"To the mothers and the fathers, the brothers and the sisters, for the breaking up of families and communities, we say sorry.

"And for the indignity and degradation thus inflicted on a proud people and a proud culture, we say sorry.

"We, the Parliament of Australia, respectfully request that this apology be received in the spirit in which it is offered, as part of the healing of the nation.

(...)

"A future where this Parliament resolves that the injustices of the past must never, never happen again.

(...)

"A future where all Australians, whatever their origins, are truly equal partners, with equal opportunities and with an equal stake in shaping the next chapter in the history of this great country, Australia."

Guardian


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. irony, eh?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yeah, that's why I was confused.
I assumed that the apology was the start of something.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. It was- and is. The Rudd government isn't the Howard government
Most of these measures are designed to improve squalid conditions in the camps that would shock your conscience.

And they also have plenty of supporters in the Aboriginal community.

The issues are complex, and the solutions aren't easy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Okay, that's what I assumed.
I guess Thorpe is adding his voice in support of the community.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
33. I guess not, considering no housing has been built under the keystone program in two years.
Macklin under fire over Indigenous housing 'failure'

Federal Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin has rejected a newspaper report that up to 70 per cent of the Government's $672 million Aboriginal housing program is being spent on indirect costs such as administration fees and contractors' fees.

Ms Macklin has already come under fire over the SIHIP because not one home has yet been built under it - although she says about 90 remote Aboriginal community homes have been built in the Northern Territory over the past 18 months under other programs.

Northern Territory federal Senator Nigel Scullion has called for Ms Macklin's resignation and says the program is a failure.

"We're now two years into her reign, we haven't built a single house and she clearly needs to recognise that she simply doesn't have control over this issue sufficiently to deliver," he said.

The ABC yesterday obtained documents which suggested she was warned more than a year ago that the SIHIP had problems and would not result in any houses being built by 2011.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/23/2633977.htm





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RFKHumphreyObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. The Rudd government apologized to the Stolen Generation
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 03:31 AM by RFKHumphreyObama
That is, the generations of children who were forcibly removed from their parents and integrated into white families for the purposes of "assimilating them". The intervention is something different altogether. It was introduced by the Bush-ite Howard government in 2007 in response to allegations of drug, alcohol and child abuse in remote communities. You can read more about it here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Territory_National_Emergency_Response

Personally I think Ian Thorpe is dead on the mark. I always respected him for a number of reasons and this only furthers my respect for him
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. So, just the one generation, not anything currently happening?
That seems a might bit shortsighted.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RFKHumphreyObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. No it happened over quite a few generations
The practice of forced removal and assimilation actually occurred for over a century. Perhaps I should have been clearer -the correct term is actually "Stolen Generations" and not "Stolen Generation"

You can find information about the subject and the text of the apology here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generation

And, in apologizing for the stolen generation, Rudd did acknowledge the impact that it and other racially discriminatory policies had had in shaping future generations. The one area that I disagreed with him is that he didn't provide for compensation for those affected but nevertheless it was a big step forward in our nation's history

To understand the context of his apology, you have to take into account the behavior that the Howard government adopted toward the issue. The report into the Stolen Generation issue, entitled "Bringing Them Home" was tabled in 1997 and contained heart-wrenching and devastating first accounts of how the issue had impacted on both those who had been taken away and their families. The Howard government essentially dismissed the report and refused to even consider officially acknowledging the pain and suffering that the policy had inflicted -indeed there were even members of the government who defended some aspects of the policy. This had a profoundly negative impact on relations between the government and indigenous communities and caused a lot of hurt and pain for survivors who had lived through and experienced the fallout from the policy

Rudd's apology was therefore a powerful symbolic move. For many survivors, it was an important step toward healing because it was the first time that the federal government and the Australian Parliament had acknowledged the pain, suffering and sense of displacement and loss that they had endured. Of course it didn't erase the pain or injustice or the discrimination that indigenous communities face at the moment or have faced in the past but its impact was certainly significant in seeking to promote reconciliation with the indigenous community
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 03:33 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you. Didn't know. Glad the news has gotten out, in spite of corporate media effort to bury.n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
11. Could you provide a link for this story to a reliable source? WSWS is not reliable.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Here's Thorpe's actual statement
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 07:56 AM by depakid
Not exactly what the article suggests, of course- particularly with respect to pension (welfare) monies, a percentage of which are withheld so that women and kids get food and clothing- rather than having it drank and gambled away.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/07/23/ian-thorpe-australias-dirty-little-secret/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. The article DIRECTLY QUOTED the speech: From your link:
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 12:39 PM by Hannah Bell
"Just this week Australia’s Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd said that it was “devastating” that a new report by our productivity commission showed that Aboriginal people had made little progress to close those gaps since 2000. He said this was “unacceptable” and “decisive action” had to be taken. The truth is that none of the problems I have mentioned can truly be rectified until our government and my fellow Australians recognise the injustice faced by Aboriginal Australians and how they are denied so many human rights.

This has been highlighted once again by what is called in Australia “The Intervention”, the Federal Government’s takeover of 73 remote Aboriginal communities.

The Intervention was constructed by the previous government and has since been reported to have been assembled in the space of just one day. The irony is that Aboriginal people had been campaigning for decades about the living conditions and the neglect of their children within their communities. The programs to protect and nurture the children, had been grossly neglected and under funded by government over the last decade. What appears to be a political stunt and a grab for government control over Aboriginal people continues to this day under the new government.

Once more an Australian government has claimed it is doing its best for Aboriginal Australians by taking over their communities, appointing white managers, more government bureaucrats, promising all kinds of things, if Aboriginal people will just sign over their communities under forty year leases to the Federal Government. And politicians wonder why Aboriginal people do not trust them.

The truth is for over 200 years Australian governments have neglected and patronized Aboriginal people.

The Intervention is unlikely to provide any lasting benefit to Aboriginal people because it tries to push and punish them, to take over their lives, rather than work with them. One of Australia’s oldest and wisest Aboriginal leaders, Galawuy Yunupingu says the only way forward is for Aboriginal communities in these remote areas to be led and organised by their own organisations. Assimilation will not work."


No, the WSWS report is nothing like what he said: just the EXACT WORDS.

I don't know what your agenda is, but it's obvious you're disingenuous.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. course he doesn't say, "oops, i was wrong," just repeats the bullshite elsewhere in the thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Replying to your own posts is a bad sign.
You might want to just get a reality check on this. It suggests a certain level of paranoia -- like you may believe people are watching you, or focusing on your posts, and yet not responding in time when they don't post back. This may be obsessive behavior. It's kind of like believing your existence is "Truman Show-esque".

Good luck!

:hi:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. your ad hom attack is noted, hampton.
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 04:23 PM by Hannah Bell
labeling one's political opponents as mental cases smacks of a pretty nasty brand of politics, btw.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #27
35. What a laughable pot-kettle-black reply! You can't even use my actual screen name ...
but instead use a childish ad hom every time you address me -- I suppose some kind of hint that I live in the Hamptons, a place I've never even visited.

You are so blind that you can't see your own hypocrisy!

:rofl:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. But it doesn't say, though, "the false claims that it was aimed at protecting...from child abuse"
Edited on Thu Jul-30-09 03:16 AM by muriel_volestrangler
And the claim by WSWS that there was no child abuse is the most serious charge that they make - and it turns out Thorpe said nothing about that at all. But their article reads as if he did talk about that.

The intervention was because a report said that child abuse was at crisis levels in the Aboriginal communities concerned. Whether the actions taken were the right ones is open to debate, but to stick your head in the sand and say "there was no child abuse", like WSWS does, is pointless.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. There is no claim in the article as to whether there is or is not child abuse. The claim
Edited on Thu Jul-30-09 05:26 AM by Hannah Bell
is that the Howard gov't initiated the intervention claiming it was to protect children from abuse, when the initiative was undertaken for other reasons (which they've elaborated on in numerous previous pieces).

There's no claim that thorpe talked about abuse: the claim is that he talked about, & decried, the Intervention: which he did.


The relevant passage from the wsws article:

The Olympic gold medalist then went on to direct his fire against the Northern Territory “intervention”, the program initiated in June 2007 by the former Howard government, with Labor Party support, under the false claims that it was aimed at protecting Aboriginal children in the Northern Territory from child abuse. The raft of punitive measures that have since been introduced include compulsory income management of all Aboriginal welfare and pension recipients, suspension of the Racial Discrimination Act (1975) and the seizure of Aboriginal controlled land. Elected to power in November 2008, the Rudd Labor government has maintained these retrogressive social policies in the face of growing Aboriginal opposition.

“The intervention,” Thorpe said, “was constructed by the previous government and has since been reported to have been assembled in the space of just one day. The irony is that Aboriginal people had been campaigning for decades about the living conditions and the neglect of their children within their communities.

“The programs to protect and nurture the children had been grossly neglected and underfunded by government over the last decade. What appears to be a political stunt and a grab for government control over Aboriginal people continues to this day under the new government.

“Once more an Australian government has claimed it is doing its best for Aboriginal Australians by taking over their communities, appointing white managers, more government bureaucrats, promising all kinds of things, if Aboriginal people will just sign over their communities under forty-year leases to the Federal Government. And politicians wonder why Aboriginal people do not trust them. The truth is for over 200 years Australian governments have neglected and patronized Aboriginal people.

“The intervention is unlikely to provide any lasting benefit to Aboriginal people because it tries to push and punish them, to take over their lives, rather than work with them.”


The last four paragraphs are thorpe's words, directly quoted. The first paragraph is background on the intervention.


Finally, I suggest that you have no way of knowing the extent or seriousness of child abuse, particularly sexual abuse, in aboriginal outposts in australia, nor do you know the severity in comparison with other groupings in australian society, or american society.


what we can know is that australian history does not show the australian ruling class or gov't in a "helping" role vis a vis aboriginal people, & history generally shows that the blanket denial of rights to entire communities is pernicious, whatever the supposed rationale for such denial of rights.

& if it can be done to this community/grouping, it can be done to *any* community/grouping on the same blanket basis.



we also know that the gov't is interested in getting aboriginal lands:


"At the centre of the new scheme is a massive land grab. The Howard government will override the 1975 Racial Discrimination Act and the 1976 Land Rights Act — which granted land tenure to Aboriginal communities in the Northern Territory — in order to take over land, initially through five-year leases. No compensation will be paid to the current landholders, despite a constitutional requirement to do so. Instead, they will be paid “in kind” — through government services—a proposal reminiscent of the days when cattle station owners gave Aboriginal workers rations of tea, sugar and flour in lieu of wages."

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jun2007/sep-j23.shtml



"The Rudd cabinet is rushing through a national land grab in a proposed compulsory forty year scheme holding Aboriginal communities ransom. In the very week that Australia must answer to the UN in response to human rights complaints of an ongoing nature, latest developments put the plan into perspective and expose the earlier machinations of a comprehensive assault on Indiginous Australia. Howard’s NT intervention looks more like an entre as Rudd delivers the main course, an all out offensive against the indigenous nations by means of government coercion and withheld supply to assume control of lands for commercial and other ‘in confidence’ purposes. As the government sells its doom and gloom messages to an arrested nation, Australian history enters another dark alleyway of secret deals, racism and more layers of questionable legislation in an attempt to control remote communities...

http://news.rosettamoon.com/?p=238


The Rudd government had demanded a forty-year lease over the town camps in exchange for $125 million worth of upgrades to homes and infrastructure. But Tangentyere rejected the proposal, saying it didn’t trust government to properly deliver housing for Aboriginal people.

In response, Jenny Macklin announced last month that the government would simply compulsorily acquire the town camps, using the NT emergency intervention legislation.

The leaked documents reveal that:

• The Minister was warned in March this year that if she reinstated the Racial Discrimination Act to the NT intervention legislation, there was a “significant risk” the compulsory acquisition of Aboriginal land for five years would not survive a court challenge.

• Macklin was warned by her department against creating any “formal consultative” process on compulsory land acquisition because it would be very expensive, might not “sufficiently strengthen” the government’s legal position in the event of a court challenge, and was unlikely to get the outcome the government required — “informed consent”. Instead, the official recommends an “informal consultative process on land use approvals which goes some way to providing a consultative mechanism”.

• The government’s current round of consultations with people affected by the NT intervention are aimed, at least in part, at building a better legal case in the event the government is challenged in court. Macklin’s department warns: “ have advised that the addition of will reduce the risk that a court will find the five-year leases not compliant with the RDA. They also note that depending upon the process of consultation during the RDA consultations, this risk may be further reduced.”

http://www.unpo.org/content/view/9785/77/


Governments are going to great measures to transform Aboriginal land into crown land. Under Rudd’s leadership, these latest attacks on Aboriginal people have been increased in the NT and extended to affect Aboriginal people in Queensland, Western Australia and South Australia. Labor is making these attacks because in recent years remote Aboriginal communities have been successful in opposing the establishment of new uranium mines and nuclear waste dumps.

With an expected increase in global use of nuclear power, the price of uranium has rapidly increased and the big mining companies have been pressuring Australian governments to allow the opening of more mines and the establishment of a nuclear waste dump. The forced or coopted loss of Aboriginal control of their land is an important step to achieving this.

http://directaction.org.au/issue7/labor_steps_up_racist_nt_land_grab


& this:

'In May, barely reported government statistics revealed that of the 7,433 Aboriginal children examined by doctors as part of the “national emergency”, 39 had been referred to the authorities for suspected abuse. Of those, a maximum of just four possible cases of abuse were identified. Such were the “unthinkable numbers”. They were little different from those of child abuse in white Australia.

What was different was that no soldiers invaded the beachside suburbs, no white parents were swept aside, no white welfare was “quarantined”. Marion Scrymgour, an Aboriginal minister in the Northern Territory, said: “To see decent, caring fathers, uncles, brothers and grandfathers, who are undoubtedly innocent of the horrific charges being bandied about, reduced to helplessness and tears, speaks to me of widespread social damage.”'

http://daownunder.wordpress.com/2008/11/11/a-new-land-grab-in-australia/




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Stop It
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Any time anyone cites to WSWS, Stormfront, Fox, Drudge, World Weekly News, etc.,...
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 08:03 AM by HamdenRice
the credibility question needs to be raised. WSWS are blatant liars.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Cut the Crap
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 08:57 AM by NashVegas
Anyone with a star can do a search and see your constant campaigning to discredit any OP sourced from that outlet, and they can also see you getting your ass handed to you.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. No, why don't you cut the crap
There are sites that are not linked to on DU because they lack credibility. WSWS isn't on that list yet, but at the rate they're going, I sure hope they are soon. Lot's of people recognize this, and no, I'm not having my ass handed to me:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6176118&mesg_id=6176188

WSWS is in the same category as Fox, World Weekly News, Drudge and Stormfront.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Lalalalal ..... Don't You Get Tired of Biting Ankles?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6106275&mesg_id=6106300

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5964232&mesg_id=5965014

This is what ankle-biters do: make wild assertions that aren't even remotely true, then when someone calls them on it, they sit back and say: "prove it," forcing that person to waste precious time in order to show everyone how full of shit the assertion was. So gosh, you found an incident where someone decided not to play your game. Congrats.

http://www.upi.com/Emerging_Threats/2009/07/28/Germans-intensify-fighting-in-Afghanistan/UPI-88091248783229/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. What on earth are you babbling about? In both cases, it was pointed out that WSWS is unreliable,
not just by me but by several other DUers.

It's a bogus website. Only gullible people think otherwise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. thanks for the....kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
19. I Like Australians
But some of them are still operating under that "God is an Englishman," blindfold.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. Go "Thorpedo"!
:yourock:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
29. I feel like I just wasted a bunch of time with this thread.
Edited on Thu Jul-30-09 01:32 AM by imdjh
I read the article. I read the speech. I still don't know what a person would need to know to understand what's going on.

Are the aborigines in some remote place where there is no work?
Are they kept there?
Does the Australian government not provide health care in this place?

If these people are rotting on welfare on some reservation then wouldn't the government be expected to intervene?
So I go looking on the internet.

Oxfam Aus

• banning liquor in prescribed areas, although bans on alcohol existed in many of these communities prior to the intervention;
• introducing a system of compulsory income management for welfare payment recipients;
• introducing causes in legislation allowing for intervention measures to be deemed “special measures” according to the Racial Discrimination Act, and • • therefore — in the eyes of the government — not discriminatory;
• compulsory acquiring five-year leases over Aboriginal land and abolishing the permit system to “common” areas;
• appointing government business managers who have a broad range of new powers over local organisations and service providers;
• banning possession of explicit pornography in prescribed areas; and
• replacing Community Development Employment Projects (CDEP) with mainstream employment programs and “real jobs”.

There is also growing evidence that some measures, in particular, income management and the ending of CDEP, are having unintended consequences. For example, the Combined Aboriginal Organisations of the Northern Territory report that quarantined income cannot be used to repay some loans and fines and this is leading to people defaulting and being put on blacklists.

The Mayor of Alice Springs suggests that “small business is hurting because Centrelink is issuing cards that can only be used at major retail outlets”.

Several agencies in Alice Springs report that these store cards are becoming the new currency and are being used for gambling and traded for cash. In Darwin, Larrakia Nation, and in Alice Springs, Tangentyere Council, have seen significant increases in people moving from traditional lands to under-resourced town camps. This is leading to increased pressure on service providers, and a spike in reported crime.

http://www.oxfam.org.au/world/pacific/australia/stories/tracking-the-intervention.html


http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE49C1L520081013

Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:11am BST
By James Grubel

CANBERRA (Reuters) - Aborigines feel a strong sense of injustice over an Australian government intervention into scores of troubled remote communities and believe the program is racist, an independent review said Monday.

Australia's former conservative government sent police and soldiers into outback towns and settlements in June 2007 to stamp out widespread child sex abuse, fuelled by chronic alcoholism from "rivers of grog" in indigenous communities.

..............

"In many communities there is a deep belief that the measures introduced by the Australian government ... were a collective imposition based on race," said the review, released Monday by Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin.

Australia's 460,000 Aborigines make up about 2 percent of the population. They suffer higher rates of unemployment, substance abuse and domestic violence, and have a life expectancy 17 years shorter than other Australians.

..............

Former prime minister John Howard ordered the intervention in the final months of his 11-and-a-half years in office, declaring the widespread sexual abuse of Aboriginal children to be a national emergency.

Under the intervention, extra police and medical teams were sent to Aboriginal communities, where alcohol and pornography were banned and welfare payments were quarantined to make sure the money is spent on food, clothing and health care.

The independent review found the intervention affected 45,500 Aboriginal men, women and children in more than 500 communities in the Northern Territory, and progress on health care and security were undermined by a lack of full community support.

"There is a strong sense of injustice that Aboriginal people and their culture have been seen as exclusively responsible for problems within their communities," it said, adding many problems stemmed from years of government neglect.

The review said the intervention should continue, but the government needed to build a new relationship with Aborigines in order to ensure community support for the program.

"The relationship must be recalibrated to the principle of racial equality and respect for the human rights of all Australian citizens," it found.



Someone correct me if I am wrong here. It reads like the government has taken steps to ensure that welfare which is intended to help with food and shelter is spent on food and shelter. I think if a community in the US were so identifiable and isolated and in such an economic and social breakdown and the US did nothing about it, it would be considered complicit. We don't go into the ghettos of the US and put them in lockdown and custodial care because even the worst ghetto has a mixed economy of people who are working, people who aren't abusing alcohol and drugs, people with kids who go to school, and people who are trying to make it. But I think that if we had an island of people who were literally falling apart, the government would step in with a more supervised and regimented program than our current welfare system.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. This is what happens when the OPer tries to address an issue through a WSWS article
Edited on Thu Jul-30-09 08:19 AM by HamdenRice
WSWS may report on actual events, but those events are always garbled through an extremely exotic, idiosyncratic ideological lens. So, you are right, it's impossible to understand the issue from the OP article.

Your take is basically right -- the Aboriginal communities are in a state of extreme social breakdown as a result of centuries of destructive policies, and the question is what to do now. The valid criticism is that this particular government's approach is likely to be as destructive as helpful.

You are also correct that some of these Aboriginal communities are not like urban problem areas. It goes beyond the fact that American urban areas are mixed economies. It goes to the fundamental world view of the inhabitants. Even drug dealers are "economically rational" by the dominant culture's criteria. They are small scale, illegal (violent) businessmen.

But Aboriginal culture is different. When I studied anthropology, my main focus was Africa, but I read a lot about modern Aboriginal communities for comparison. It's pretty amazing. Because they are so close to their roots as hunter-gatherers, for example, in many Aboriginal communities, there is little sense of property. If you have cigarettes, for example, you cannot NOT give them to anyone who asks for them. So it is customary for people to "cadge" cigarettes constantly from each other. The only way to avoid the obligation to give away your cigarettes is to hide them. If you own a radio, your friends and neighbors can ask for it. The only way to avoid giving it away is to hide it. In other words, a person taking a possession is only theft, if the "owner" has tried to hide the possession. Here's an interesting article; if you get past the theory at the beginning, the actual description of the author's time among the Aborigines (from p. 56) is really interesting:

http://books.google.com/books?id=g2ouJC9qRY4C&pg=PA52&lpg=PA52&dq=Australia+aborigines+%22burning+the+truck%22&source=bl&ots=YcO8shqkgX&sig=1b01WUAIg_fghOn2fy2YkHmrqKs&hl=en&ei=SYhxSqLbMoKBtweGt62NBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

The new fad in poverty relief is severe management of the poor. It seems to have started in Mexico. It involves putting the poor in a "Skinner Box" of rewards and punishments (no offense intended, Admins!). Bloomberg is talking about imposing it here. Seems that's what Labor has in mind.

Problem is that its bad enough in western poor communities, but how is it going to work in the Aboriginal culture?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. It's an interesting read. Thanks.
And it appears to add up to a damned if you damned if you don't position for modern people. The aboriginal culture has obviously worked for them for however long their identity as such and their location has persisted, but it doesn't produce things like cars and modern medicine which run on defined property ownership and regimented work or societal discipline.

The thing I found fascinating about the aboriginals given the article you sent me to, is that there are only 500,000 of them. I have no idea what the base sustainable population would have been in 1600. But as we can see elsewhere, sending in food and medicine into a society which doesn't produce its own modern technology has often led to population explosion which combined with a low life expectancy and high birth rate simply generates Malthus' "war, famine, and pestilence" to one degree or another.

My first response to the article was that we (modern people) are gorillas trying to make the chimpanzees (aboriginal people) be gorillas. The biological barrier between gorillas and chimpanzees isn't present in that dynamic, but the cultural divide is huge.

I also wonder if there really are europeans (or other races) on Australia which really have been assimilated to the aboriginal way, or if that's just in movies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. Stay granted on Alice town camp leases
Edited on Thu Jul-30-09 11:34 AM by Hannah Bell
July 30, 2009

A Federal Court judge has granted a temporary stay on new sub-leases over Aboriginal town camps in Alice Springs.

The Federal Government wants housing administrators to sign 40-year sub-leases on the camps and has threatened them with compulsory acquisition.

Lawyer Jonathan Beach, QC, told the court the sub-leases were disadvantageous for those living in the town camps and for the housing associations that run them. He said that under the proposed agreements, the rent money from the camps that now goes to the housing associations would instead be given to the Federal Government.

But a Government lawyer argued any delay would affect the $100 million the Government had promised to spend on improving housing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/30/2641422.h...



Abbott 'derelict in his duty': Brough
July 24, 2009

... the Government has been under fire after it emerged that the program, which has been underway for more than a year, has yet to result in the construction of a single house.

The ABC this week revealed a secret 2008 memo from Labor Senator Ursula Stephens to the Indigenous Affairs Minister, Jenny Macklin, warning that the program would not result in any houses being built before 2011.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/24/2635147.h...



Minister may quit over NT housing

July 24, 2009


NORTHERN Territory Aboriginal Affairs Minister Alison Anerson has threatened to quit the Labor party in protest over the Rudd government's "appalling" handling of a $700 million remote housing package that she labelled a "big farce".

"It was quite openly told to us that there will be 15 per cent administrative costs going to government, 40 per cent for the alliance (building) partners, and another 15 per cent for indirect costs, whatever that is," Ms Anderson told The Australian yesterday. "That leaves 30 per cent that will hit the ground.

"I was absolutely appalled. I said, 'Here we go again'. We talk about closing the gap in indigenous inequality and indigenous housing, and here we are creaming off so much money in administrative costs. I will not take that and I am prepared to walk on that issue." ...Ms Anderson -- who was central to negotiations to forcibly acquire the camps -- said that not one new house would be built at a town camp under the funding package. "I'm not prepared to stand by anybody compulsorily acquiring land just for repairs and maintenance," Ms Anderson said.

In the Territory, Labor last month lost its majority in the parliament when former deputy chief minister Marion Scrymgour quit the party in protest over outstations policy. If Ms Anderson also quits, it could result in a change of government...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,2582...



NT pedophile ring claims unfounded
July 5, 2009

AN INVESTIGATION by Australia's main crime-fighting agency has found no evidence of organised pedophilia in Northern Territory indigenous communities.

The finding by the Australian Crime Commission demolishes one of the central claims used by the Howard government to support its controversial NT intervention.

In the now-discredited claims that underlined his push for the 2007 intervention, then-indigenous affairs minister Mal Brough, along with some commentators, claimed there were "pedophile rings" in the Northern Territory.

But in an interview with The Sunday Age, crime commission chief John Lawler said his agency's 18-month multimillion-dollar investigation had determined there was "not organised pedophilia in indigenous communities".

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/nt-pedophile-r...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6184055&mesg_id=6184055

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
30. WHAT ABOUT THE ATTEMPTED GENOCIDE OF NATIVE AMERICANS? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 18th 2024, 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC