29 July 1967 - Sailors to the End

[BOSSHOG]

42 years Ago today onboard the USS Forrestal

The aircraft carrier was preparing to launch attacks into North Vietnam when one of its jets accidentally fired a rocket across the flight deck into an aircraft occupied by John McCain. A huge fire ensued, and McCain barely escaped before a thousand pound bomb on his plane exploded, causing a chain reaction with other bombs on surrounding planes.

134 Shipmates died as a result of the catastrophe.

64 years ago tomorrow the USS Indianapolis was sunk leaving a third of its crew in shark invested waters for almost a week before being rescued.

As John Kennedy said on the first of August 1963, Any man who may be asked in this century what he has done to make his life worthwhile can say with a great deal of pride and satisfaction, I served in the United States Navy.

[commander bunnypants]

1. ya know it Boss HOG

HM3 here


CB

[BOSSHOG]

3. Hey Doc

Loved My Corpsman, crazy motherfuckers going on patrol with Marines.

[Blue_Tires]

2. there was also the mystery of the Scorpion...

the 60s were some hairy times in the Navy...

[Captain Hilts]

SOSUS made it pretty clear what happened. The USN just couldn't say

"hey, we got these big microphones in the ocean...."

[Blue_Tires]

9. so the Russians did sink it?

[BOSSHOG]

11. A Great Book on the subject

ALL HANDS DOWN, the True Story of the Soviet Attack on the USS SCORPION by Kenneth Sewell. Sewell is a Nuclear Engineer and former Sub Sailor.
Published in 2008. A very fine, if not very sad read.

[Captain Hilts]

13. It's horrifically inaccurate and dishonest. The JAG report was recently declassified. Here it is

http://www.jag.navy.mil/documents/FOIA/USS%20SCORPAIN%2027%20MAY%2068.pdf

[BOSSHOG]

17. Thanks

very much for the document.

[Captain Hilts]

18. It's a hair-raising read. The Moral of the Story - as with the IOWA explosion

is that the USN will do whatever it can to cover up contractor or command errors.

SCORPION was behind on maintenance. Folks that were in the sub force at the time just kind of saw it as pushing the envelope, just as pilots do. Only, it's in a group with subs.

And they knew there was trouble with the weapons. Did anyone get keel-hauled for the lousy weapons in WWII that cost us several subs? Nope.

In my father's papers, I recently found a letter to him from a sailor on SCORPION. It's on SCORPION stationery. It's like how the THRESHER's radioman was put on my dad's sub for a Med cruise because he wasn't really needed while THRESHER was in the shipyard. The whole thing was a horrible trauma for him as a survior.

[TrogL]

31. Do we have the report for the Thresher?

I was just a kid at the time and heartbroken.

[Captain Hilts]

33. Yes. Let me see if I can find it. Not quite as interesting a read.

A friend of mine is the guy who found the wreckage.

Of course, for THRESHER, the folks on the surface were on the phone with the skipper through nearly the whole thing...

[Captain Hilts]

12. No. SOSUS provided a detailed soundtrack of the entire incident. nt

[alfredo]

8. Had a friend on the Scorpion, David Huckleberry. I heard about it

while stationed in East Africa. The wife of the JAG informed me. She was my sister's gym teacher so she felt a bit of kinship with me. I remember her walking across the field right at me. I had an uneasy feeling because she wasn't smiling as usual. She informed me that David was on the Scorpion when it was lost.

It was amazing how, many high school connections I had while stuck on top of that extinct vacation. Another high school friend would appear around the time there were space shots were to happen. Another was the cousin of an old girlfriend. He was CIA at the time, and is now a State Department Consultant.

[Semi_subversive]

4. July 29 1972 and 1973

I was somewhere in the Pacific, most likely under water with the USS Plunger or in a Dolphin bar.

[BOSSHOG]

10. Hey Shipmate

Just finished an interesting Sub Book "Stealth Boat, Fighting the Cold War in a Fast-Attack Submarine" By Gannon McHale. He was on the Sturgeon 67-70. He was a nonrate but struck for Yeoman. Interesting book about that period of time, most of the book was about he and his shipmates bar hopping. Its a relatively new book published last year. Not much of historical value but a Sailor would appreciate the non-sense we did and most likely still do get into as retold in this book.

[Captain Hilts]

19. I'd like to read that. I'm sick of reading captain's memoirs...

[BOSSHOG]

20. For a YN3

he was pretty rough on one of his Skippers but there was a lot of idolation of another CO.

[Captain Hilts]

21. Dad was a YN3 before he went to the academy. Skippers come in all shapes and makes, don't they?

[Obamanaut]

30. Some skippers are memorable, others not so much. During my

28 years, there were many. Another old Navy man and I were talking one day, and I discovered I could only remember the names of two former skippers. I don't think it's an age thing.

[Semi_subversive]

26. Thanks

I'll check it out. BTW, I hope my wife and kids never hear the words "Subic Bay".

[BOSSHOG]

37. Why?

What could a Strapping Young American Sailor with a wallet full of cash get into in, of all places, Subic Bay?

[Semi_subversive]

42. After spending a couple of months underwater

There's no steam to blow off here. Not a bit.

[Captain Hilts]

5. A friend of mine was flying A7s off the Forrestal that day. His plane was not damaged. The cruise

book from the cruise was really graphic.

[Obamanaut]

28. Was it A4s he was flying? I was in one of the two squadons with

A4s many years later after their transition to A7s. Was in that same sqdn twice, the second time as maint chief, and retired.

http://www.forrestal.org/fidfacts/page13.htm

<snip>thus it was that on June 6, 1967, Forrestal left Norfolk, Virginia, for what was to be her first combat deployment.

Carrying Air Wing 17, Forrestal was the first U.S. carrier to be built from the keel up with an angled deck. She carried East Coast squadrons, two F-4B squadrons squadrons; VFs 11 and 74; VAs 106 and 46, flying A-4Es; RVAH-11, with RA-5C Vigilantes, for which the big carrier had undergone major modification for the IOIC reconnaissance intelligence system; the KA-3Bs of VAH-10; and VAW-123, flying E-2As.<more at link>

[razorman]

6. Thanks for the post and good wishes. "The Forrestal Fire" was a training film

being used extensively when I was in the navy in the 70's. I saw it several times, and the images still remain with me. Having experienced a few shipboard emergencies, I can tell you that fire is probably the thing that sailors fear most at sea. Like the old saying, "If you have a fire on land, there you are. If you have a fire at sea, where are you?" God rest the brave men who died on the Forrestal that day.

[Captain Hilts]

7. Folks in Norfolk always talked about the carrier deck training movie where the guy

gets caught in an arresting cable and sucked through a cleat.

[razorman]

23. I heard about that one, but never saw it. I was a tin can sailor.

[Orsino]

14. Agreed...

...as long as anyone with an anti-American voting record like John McCain's isn't allowed to hide it behind his/her former military service.

[Octafish]

15. Words cannot express the appreciation I have for the men and women who keep us free.

The United States Navy, including the United States Marine Corps, is filled with these good men and women, as are the United States Army, United States Air Force, the Coast Guard of the United States, the National Guard and the Reserve Forces. They -- and all Americans who support the Constitution -- are why we have been a free people since 1776.

Thank you for remembering today's sad anniversary, Chief. Thank you with all my heart for your service, BOSSHOG.

[lpbk2713]

16. Here is some detail of that event.

Link: http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/histories/cv59-forrestal/forrestal-fire.html


Officers and enlisted did what had to be done that day regardless of the consequences to their own lives.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[hedgehog]

22. If Gregory Freeman is correct, the incident happened because t

people ignored the Navy's own rules. AS I recall his explanation, the wing rocket on a jet fired due to a faulty piece of metal in a single switch. The electrical connections were prematurely armed because two separate groups altered launch procedures in an effort to get the jets into the air faster. What turned the fire into a true disaster was the presence of WWII bombs salvaged from an outdoor storage yard in the Philippines. One officer had refused to accept delivery of those bombs because they were so unstable. He was over-ruled because the pressure was on to maintain the bombing campaign against North Vietnam.


My Dad has told us this story innumerable times to emphasize the need to respect safety rules: The opening line on the training manual for munitions handling is : Every rule in this book is written in blood.


Sailors to the End: The Deadly Fire on the USS Forrestal and the Heroes Who Fought It
Author: Gregory A. Freeman

[proteus_lives]

24. RIP to the men of the USS Forrestal

:patriot:

[maxrandb]

25. and on April 19, 1989

Turret #2 on USS IOWA (BB-61) experienced an open breach explosion of 550 lbs. of black powder, killing 47 Shipmates. Only the actions of the crew, and the fact that the Battleships were the most survivable ships ever constructed, saved the entire ship from exploding with all 1200 men aboard.

[SidneyCarton]

27. Mrs. Carton's grandfather served on the Forrestal

He was there for the fire, and survived.

[Captain Hilts]

32. My friend knew how lucky he was. Peace to Mrs. Carton's grandfather. Luck counts. nt

[onethatcares]

29. my dad was a radio operator on a PBY at that time

64 years ago. He was stationed in that area. He doesn't talk about the war, never did. I think he deserves a salute.

[MADem]

34. K/R. nt

[TahitiNut]

35. My father was Navy in WW2 in the Pacific. I initially aimed higher: Coast Guard.

:evilgrin:

[Thothmes]

36. Third Generation Navy here

Grandfather heaved coal on USS Wyoming during WWI. Father served on USS Yorktown until she was sunk at Midway, then USS West Virginia from the time she was raised off the bottom of Pearl Harbor. He also served on the USS Sitkoh Bay during the Korean war. I spent 25 years in the Navy, served on 6 ships.

[Captain Hilts]

38. Wow! Your dad was in the thick of it!!! Which ships were you on?

[Thothmes]

44. St Louis, LKA116, Meyerkord FF1058, Sterett, CG31,

Vogelgesang DD862, Platte AO186, and Detroit AOE4

[Captain Hilts]

45. Oooh, so on the AOs you had to watch a lot of airdales learn to drive ships...

not for the faint of heart!

[Thothmes]

47. Only on Detroit.

The Captain of the Platte was a black shoe.

[Captain Hilts]

49. Cool!

[madokie]

39. I remember this well asI was only a few weeks away from heading to San Diego for boot

And mcPOW walked away and have been selling the usa down the river ever since.

:hi:

[BOSSHOG]

40. Hey Madokie

I went to Boot in San Diego but not til 72. Lordy the Navy's tragedys could fill a library.

[madokie]

43. My first duty station upon graduation from boot

was going back there as an adjutant. That was the life, here I had only been in the navy for 6 months or so and already I was getting to boss someone around. I helped push 6 companies in all and I was rough on those young kido's, seaman to be. I ran into a couple of the guys later on down the road and they both thanked me for staying on their asses and making sure they did what they had to do.

[UTUSN]

41. Is it reveille already?!1 Well, Mc5PLANEs was in the Navy, too. n/t

[Captain Hilts]

46. Sub service has no reveille. Another great reason to be a bubblehead. nt

[B Calm]

48. USS Yosemite AD 19 1969-71 USS Albany CG 10 1971-1973

[Captain Hilts]

50. Friend of mine was on Albany in late '70s. YOSEMITE basically had a successful mutiny

in the early '80s out of Norfolk when it had just gotten out of the shipyard and they took it out and the skipper decided to do some hot-rodding - without warning the crew - so all sorts of folks got hurt with stuff sliding around, etc. When they pulled into NOB, everybody in town knew what a jerk the skipper was by the end of the week. He was relieved.

I think I saw YOSEMITE in Philly or Newport News recently. I've been both places and can't remember where I saw it. A distinctive profile.

[B Calm]

51. The USS Yosemite is on the bottom of the ocean now. They sank

her a few years back to make an artificial reef.

[Thothmes]

52. Believe you are refering to the USS Yellowstone AD41

Yosemite AD 19 was based in Mayport Florida. While underway for an ISE period shortly after a yard period the CO saying to XO "lets see who is secured for sea". He order the OD to execute a full speed full rudder turn. They did not pass the word to the crew that that was going to happen. Several people were injured from unsecured tool chest, file cabinets etc. Do not remember the CO being relieved, but he was given a letter of admonition by ComLogGruTwo, Admiral Toole. We refered to her as the RollingStone thereafter.