If we don't get single payer....

[CoffeeCat]

...and we get some watered-down healthcare program that is MANDATED, this will create
dire political consequences for President Obama and for the Democrats.

A mandated healthcare program that FINES those who don't participate--helps the insurance companies.
They get to cover more people which means more money into their coffers. However, the insurance
companies are still calling the shots, determining who gets what treatment.

The economy is horrendous. Many people, not just the poor and lower-middle class, have been ravaged
by the economy and cannot afford to pay for healthcare. So, we're going to fine people who have no money,
during a recession that may worsen?

I guarantee you--the DLC, all Republicans and the powerful insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies
do not want a successful healthcare plan. That's why single-payer is not even an option. These companies
have guaranteed that it's not even on the table.

They'll pass a behemoth plan, run by the government, that is destined to not work, so they can all say, "SEE!
We told you so!!" They'll have the media on their side--interviewing victims of this government-run program.
We'll see people crying over relatives who died waiting for surgeries and people who died because of mistakes--that
these powerful interests can blame on this new government program.

It will be a horrendous debacle--and it will be used to destroy Obama and the Democratic party. I'm sorry to
say that it just may work.

[BlooInBloo]

1. (shrug) You're not getting single-payer right now.

[villager]

2. Shrug? Nice passion there....

n/t

[BlooInBloo]

4. Ohnoes. I didn't type with enough passion for some random internetz person...

That MUST mean I hate kittehs. Or something.

[villager]

8. plus your sunny attitude shines through with every post!

:hi:

[mullard12ax7]

13. I guess the poster forgot the big important person you are

as you insult them for being the EXACT same person you are, an internet poster. Logic 101, take it.

[mkultra]

5. its probably just acceptance. Your not getting SP this go round

[ZombieHorde]

9. Don't be fooled, people who don't care don't reply. nt

[villager]

11. they're just feigning indifference?

n/t

[ZombieHorde]

20. Why else would they post? Do you reply to posts you think are boring, or do you just move on?

If I am not interested in an OP I will move on to the next OP, as opposed to replying; "I am not interested in this OP." or "Shrug, how boring." This would be silly.

When I see these types of replies I think they are saying that they don't like the content of the OP, they find it disparaging or demoralizing. Instead of arguing against the OP, they call it stupid or boring.

[Jennicut]

22. Nah, that's just Bloo being Bloo.

He is always sarcastic like that...you get used to it after awhile.

[blindpig]

16. That's right...

We're all getting a shit sandwich.

The fix is in.

[earth mom]

23. Yep-we're getting a shit sandwich served up on a silver platter.

It may look and sound pretty, but it's still shit. :puke:

[billyoc]

3. IF?!

:rofl:

[Enrique]

6. we'll find out if you're right

because with 100% certainty, we are not getting single-payer.

[sabrina 1]

7. I agree with you

The Insurance Business/Industry has been salivating over the millions who are without coverage for a long time. They do NOT see them the way normal people do, they see them as potential customers. But, you can't get money from people who don't have it. So, the Insurance Ind. is very much in favor of the government contributing to policies for the uninsured.

Single Payer is the most sensible way to get everyone covered. However, I agree with those who say we will not get it. The Health Insurance Industry is far too powerful and will never allow themselves to become obsolete, especially since so many of our Representatives are funded by them. The people have no one lobbying for them. And the media does not educate the public or refute the smears and lies about any system that would benefit the population and eliminate the need for their 'services'.

It will take a complete overhaul of Congress to get rid of them and I don't see that happening anytime soon as they will continue to fund candidates who will be loyal to their interests. I do not know the answer, but Democrats being in the majority is clearly not the answer either.

[Cronus Protagonist]

10. I got no cash to pay insurance companies

If I get fined for not paying them, I can assure you that I will have the nastiest web site on the planet that attacks the perpetrators of this theft.

[BuyingThyme]

12. How 'bout we stop murdering Afghanis and put that money towards saving Americans.

Politics is easy.

[anonymous171]

14. Of course. Sometimes the most "extreme" solution is the only one that works. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

15. So failure is the only way to preserve democratic power?

You work for the DNC, don't you?

[anonymous171]

17. Results will preserve democratic power.

Half-assed solutions that do nothing will not help the party one bit.

[Greyhound]

19. It's the NewBlueThirdDLC that has the destruction of the Democratic Party as their main agenda.

A blatant fifth column bent on stopping any success and keeping the Republiks alive.

[tridim]

18. "fine people who have no money" is a GOP/Limbaugh talking point

Why perpetrate that lie?

[Greyhound]

21. Another sinking thread that we will not talk about.

Sorry.

maybe you should put the name of the distraction DU jour into the thread title next time?

[MrMickeysMom]

24. And they call this fascism

Here's what I got from our president today in my in basket-

It’s time to fix our unsustainable insurance system and create a new foundation for health care security. That means guaranteeing your health care security and stability with eight basic consumer protections:
• No discrimination for pre-existing conditions
• No exorbitant out-of-pocket expenses, deductibles or co-pays
• No cost-sharing for preventive care
• No dropping of coverage if you become seriously ill
• No gender discrimination
• No annual or lifetime caps on coverage
• Extended coverage for young adults
• Guaranteed insurance renewal so long as premiums are paid
Learn more about these consumer protections at Whitehouse.gov.

To which I responded-
Dear Mr. President,

No.... No, it's NOT. I'm not simply a complainer with a rant and a red face. I understand visionaries, and I want very badly to understand who you are.

It's NOT time to "fix our unsustainable insurance system". This was never supposed to be about "health INSURANCE reform", I WAS and STILL IS supposed to be about HEALTH CARE reform.

Don't turn your back on that promise. I instinctively know the difference, while appreciating which entities contribute to campaigns, sadly reinforcing the notion of who are the stake-holders under a system of no campaign finance reform. May I be so bold, sir, to advise you that it's going to take a huge set of gonads to do what's right, because we MUST do what's right.

I accept NOTHING less than what we have in place ALREADY and what the CBO has refused to score, Medicare for All. The American people have effectively been silenced out by the media when it comes to what we could have under HR 676 and S 703. I refuse to back down on this demand. I believe that you know this because I believe in how strong you really are.

[TheKentuckian]

25. You were never offered single payer.

I just don't get the vehement disappointment on this when at no point was single payer presented as a possibility. I totally relate to the desire for it but it strikes me, on the whole, as like being offered a choice of chicken or fish, fish was ordered, and then when a steak fails to arrive you wig out.

As long as that campaign was there was never any promise or even a hint towards single payer but people are somehow pissed that we aren't getting it. It just doesn't make sense to me to be angry about not getting something that was never presented as an option, especially since there weren't many all radicalized about it when the menu was being discussed. It's like a bunch of people just decided to be irate when reality firmed up.

[bvar22]

34. He said he wasn't going to stop the wars either.

So what?
I STILL oppose the Middle East Occupations and increasing Military Spending.

I fought for Single Payer/] long before Obama became president.
Should I stop supporting Single Payer now just because Obama doesn't support it? :shrug:

[WeDidIt]

26. Obama never promised single payer

In fact, during the campaign he sated emphatically over and over and over and over that there would be no single payer.

[blindpig]

27. So what?

It is what is needed, nothing else will do.

[Greyhound]

33. Who does he work for? n/t

[conspirator]

28. ... you sit down and watch american idol nt

[kentuck]

29. If we don't get real reform, the President should veto the bill..

and use it as a campaign issue against the Republicans in the next election and bring it up again once the people prove they are ready to accept reform.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. I am adamantly against anything that turns into corporate welfare for the insurance companies

such as a Massachusetts-style mandate to buy private insurance.

I already have (over-priced, lousy) private insurance, and I would resent the hell out of any mandate that said I had to KEEP it.

[Chisox08]

31. Why won't Obama take his doctor's advise?

He wants single payer not the cooperate ran system we have now nor the one that is being brought up in congress.

[Douglas Carpenter]

32. There is absolutely no possibility whatsoever that single-payer will pass in the near future.

I wish that were not so. I completely support single payer. But it is not even remotely possible that it will happen any time soon - none- ZERO.

I wish I was wrong. But this is the reality of the current political situation.

[Greyhound]

35. "The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice."

"You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They've long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They've got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies, so that they control just about all of the news and information you hear. They've got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying ­ lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else."

"But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago.

"You know what they want? Obedient workers ­ people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And, now, they're coming for your Social Security. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club."

"This country is finished."

George told us for 50 years and we still haven't heard a fucking thing.

[Spike89]

36. Makes no sense...

...so they can all say, "SEE! We told you so!!" Who do you envision will be shouting that? The context suggests that it will be Democrats because they are the only ones that can pass a plan right now (behemoth or not). I'm even more puzzled about who they may be shouting this to? Again, context suggests you think they'll be shouting at us, the people. Yet, this doesn't make sense because this isn't what the people are clamoring for. Essentially, the scenario you outline is what I'd expect if they actually do get pushed into providing a semi-decent or good bill.

It is much more likely in my mind that if they pass a crappy bill, they'll shout "give it a chance, fixing something this complicated takes time!" By the time pressure to really fix it builds, many of them won't be in office (they hope) or they'll just pull the "we tried our best back in 2009, but it obviously can't be fixed."

What really gets me frustrated is that I believe we the people are truly ready and demanding the big changes. I don't think this is going to end up being a partisan victory for either side, other than it may bring Democrats and Obama in particular down to the same level of distrust. I don't see any "advantage" going toward the republicans, just everyone losing (of course, the repubs have very little to lose right now).