Do you ever wish that Hillary Clinton was still in the Senate working on health care?

[bluestateguy]

Make no mistake about it, I think she has been a fine Secretary of State. On the other hand, sometimes I really wish it was her, rather than Max Baucus, who was drawing up the health care bill in the Senate (Ted Kennedy is of course, out of commission).

[Oregone]

1. No.

What part of her old reform had anything to do with incrementally and pragmatically expanding Medicare (at least lowering the age limit) for a centrist compromise?

If she wouldn't even be in favor of that, what use is she?

[Cleita]

23. I agree. Her vision was corporatist and not what we need for a real

solution.

[BlooInBloo]

2. I like her better doing whatever Obama tells her to do, rather than being free to snipe at him...

But yah, on that specific issue, it would always be better to have more senate Dems on-board and fighting rather than fewer.

[Oregone]

3. Her speeches most certainly do sound better...

When she is 5000 miles away.

[StevieM]

9. Hillary was an enthusiastic campaigner for Obama in the GE and worked hard to elect him.

Her efforts made a clear difference on the ground, in terms of results, and Obama himself acknowledged that. She is a team player and I am proud to count myself as a supporter of hers.

Steve

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluestateguy]

16. Yes indeed she was

She pledged to work her heart out for the nominee and she was better than her word.

I consider it my duty to support her in 2016 if she wants the nomination.

[Beacool]

53. Thanks!!!

:hug:

[JVS]

33. +1

[theHandpuppet]

46. I guess if I subract 1 that makes it even.

....... :eyes:

[rug]

47. You have a primitive view of government, Archie.

[BlooInBloo]

81. Hush, Palin.

[Fire1]

61. +1

[billyoc]

4. No, I like the idea that her time in government is coming to an end.

She might have lasted YEARS in the Senate. This way, we'll be rid of her soon.

[StevieM]

6. Right....Obama wouldn't see any drop in his poll numbers if he fired her (eom)

[billyoc]

12. He doesn't have to fire her, she's gone when he's gone.

[Sebass1271]

19. what are you saying? that he will be gone soon? let me ask

you, how soon do you think P.Obama will leave and how long do you think Hillary will last?

just curious -

[billyoc]

22. They'll both be gone in eight years, Hillary maybe in 4, whereas she might've lingered for decades

in the Senate.

[StevieM]

42. Right. And she gave up her Senate career (which she loved) when Obama appealed to her

to serve her country and to help him right our place in the world.

I doubt Obama would fire her after he wins re-election.

Steve

[billyoc]

43. No, I wouldn't expect him to fire her. Still, 7 1/2 years 'til I'm Hillary Free...

[tekisui]

55. I've heard Hillary will be running for NY governor.

The SoS deal was to keep her in the limelight, without making her navigate the Senate votes.

[tekisui]

56. NY Governor is next up for her.

Or, so I've heard.

[billyoc]

68. We'll see.

[redqueen]

5. Soooo... you're against a public option? (nt)

[armyowalgreens]

44. Not much of a history buff are you...

[redqueen]

62. So the Clinton health care plan did have a public option?

Your snark is vague and unhelpful.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

7. Hillary has a spine and that certainly IS missed in our Senate.

[karynnj]

32. Can you give me a few examples where she stood against

the wind to support anything in her years in the Senate. It wasn't part of her strategy for winning the Presidency.

[Beacool]

40. Neither was it Obama's........

Not exactly a paragon of courage in either senate. And please don't even bring up a speech given in 2002 when he was not even in the US senate.

:eyes:

[karynnj]

41. Obama did push an ethics bill with more teeth than any in decades

The NYT article at the time expressed surprise that he was able to get some of the anti-lobbying bundled contributions in over genuine anger from high in the party Senators like Schumer.

I know that is just one, but I didn't say that he was someone who stood against the crowd. What I said is that HRC did not lead any controversial effort. Now, I can make decent cases for Feingold, Wellstone and Kerry - and likely more if I spent more than a minute thinking.

[blm]

51. Have to disagree with you there, SCQ. She never USED that spine to oppose Bush on any major

issue her entire time in the senate. She stayed on the same page with Lieberman but stayed more quiet about it than he did.

HRC was one of the Dems who stayed sided with Bush on his Iraq war decisions up until her own primary race in 2007.

[frazzled]

8. She was on the HELP committee

Which has already passed out of a committee a fairly decent bill with a public option. Baucus is the Finance Committee, which Hillary Clinton was never on.

So it wouldn't help.

Max Baucus is not actually drawing up the health care bill in the Senate. He's drawing up one of two competing bills in the Senate, and one of 3 more in the House. He's got a lot of clout, since money (his bailliwick) always talks, but these bills will all be conformed eventually.

[dysfunctional press]

10. no. no. NO!

anything that she drafted would be POUNCED on by the right and dismissed out of hand. she's their FAVOURITE enemy.

[JohnnyLib2]

15. Ummm, the right?

Not exclusively! :evilgrin:

[Beacool]

35. What Right????????

It's the damn Left who keeps trashing her!!!!!!

x(

[Beacool]

36. Self delete, posted twice.

[superduperfarleft]

13. Oh, fuck no. n/t

[ecstatic]

14. It wouldn't help us as far as MSM spin goes

You think the spin is bad now, imagine if Clinton was in the mix. I prefer her in the position she's in now.

[timeforpeace]

17. Instead of orchestrating the Honduran coup? You bet.

[leftstreet]

29. ouch

:rofl:

[Fumesucker]

18. ""I can envision a day when you will have to show proof of insurance at the job interview""

-Hilary Clinton, during the 2008 primaries..

So my answer to your question is not just no, but FUCK NO..

[OHdem10]

20. Reid would still have appointed Baucus. The Republicans would

be giving Hillary a terrible time. However, I trust Hillary
and would not turn my back on Baucus for minute.

[Individualist]

21. No!

Baucus and Hillary are both DLC members.

[scarletwoman]

24. No, I'd rather she was gracefully retired to private life.

[Naturyl]

25. Not really.

[Beacool]

26. Why bother asking the question?

As you can see by the responses you got the same a-holes as usual attacking Hillary. The difference with Hillary and many of these senators is that she has the balls that they lack and would have been fighting tooth and nail for the plan she supported.

As for the jerks that want Hillary out of politics, dream on........

:puke:

[blm]

54. Show us ONE TIME she fought tooth and nails as a senator? She was Lieberman in an orange pantsuit.

,

[bvar22]

70. Not Fair!

Hillary took the LEAD in that Flag Burning thing,
and fought like the devil to protect our children from violent cartoons in Video Games!

[blm]

91. LOL.....

LOL

[Liquorice]

71. And Obama fought tooth and nail as a senator? LOL nt

[blm]

79. No - but no one is CLAIMING he did. Is THAT your dodge for Clinton's docility in senate? LOL

.

[Liquorice]

82. Is Obama Lieberman too then? NT

[blm]

84. No, Clinton is - look at their votes from 2001-2008. She was so docile in the Senate while siding

with Bush and Lieberman on the major issues, wasn't she?

You saw her fight hard in the Senate? Prove it.

[Liquorice]

86. The fact is neither Clinton nor Obama did huge things in the senate. If you

criticize one for it, you should criticize both--otherwise, you're a hypocrite. If Clinton is Lieberman, then so is Obama. I can't stand a hypocrite.

[blm]

87. The point I was replying to was the claim Hillary was such a fighter. Prove it using her record

in the senate.

No one MADE THE CLAIM that Obama was a fighter in the Senate. You're just using that to HIDE BEHIND because you KNOW HRC was a docile servant to Bush for her entire senate career.

[joeybee12]

78. I have so soured...

...on the Kennedys in the past few years...still love Bobby, but the rest i can do without.

[karynnj]

27. Ummm She was not even on the Finance committee

They would not make her chair of a committee she wasn't on. She was about the 5th ranked Senator on the HELP committee. In addition, Ted Kennedy had a hand in writing the HELP bill.

The problem is that Baucus didn't let Rockefeller in on the meetings and he was the head of the Health subcommittee. John Kerry was excluded as well and he has written health care legislation before. Why do you think HRC even if added as the junior most Finance committee member would have had more success?

[TankLV]

28. YES! She was FANTASTIC Senator, and is SORELY missed in NY & the COUNTRY!!!

But she is DYNAMITE in her new job as SOS.

She is great at WHATEVER she does!

[karynnj]

31. Can you tell me any issue that she really lead on in the Senate?

The fact is that she was a very junior Senator, who thought the best strategy was to stay to the center right of the Democratic party.

[blm]

92. OK... she LED the center-right to stand with Bush on ALL of his war decisions.

Lieberman in an orange pantsuit flying under the radar. Lieberman was the lightning rod while HRC stayed quietly beside him.

[TheKentuckian]

30. I don't think she'd make any significant difference. Now, if she could replace Bad Max then you're

on to something. I might be under crediting her though, she could garner face time which would give us someone besides Obama, Dean, and Kerry to discuss the issue with any heft.

[bluestateguy]

34. Well I seem to have kicked up a lot of venom with this thread

Had I known that that would happen, I would have kept my mouth shut.

We still seem to have some sore winners here from last year's primaries.

[Beacool]

38. You said it!!!!!!!!!!!

:crazy:

[JTFrog]

45. And some have short memories.

Which every politician counts on of course.

[Sebastian Doyle]

37. Hillary campaigned on Romney-style mandatory corporate "coverage".

Don't see how she would have done any better than Baucu$.

[blue_onyx]

64. Yes, she supported mandatory coverage

and Obama was against a mandate (part of why I preferred him). Yet it seems like a mandate may be included anyway. I'll be very upset if Obama approves anything with mandatory coverage.

It's odd that so many on DU hate Hillary but seem to ignore the fact that Obama and Hillary are probably 95% the same politically.

[cherokeeprogressive]

39. No. Simply, no. n/t

[Duende azul]

48. Depends. The people of Honduras would prefer her still in the senate.

The coupsters like her more where she is now.

[Beacool]

49. The people from Honduras?

Maybe those who supported Zelaya. Not all Hondurans are upset that he was removed from office.

[Duende azul]

74. Oh. By your brilliant logic, go ahead: let the military remove Obama from office.

Not all in the US would be upset about it.

See? It´s easy.
Sure, you'd prefer Hillary as replacement. But I fear, you'd end up with Cheney instead.

[mod mom]

50. NO! Last thing we need is another corporate Dem working against our best interest!

[marmar]

52. I didn't particularly like Hillarycare (or Obamacare for that fact of matter), but.....

..... Yes, I'd much rather have her working on it than Sad Max.

[DeadEyeDyck]

57. I'd would have rather had Hillary in the White House n/t

[Beacool]

60. Hear, hear!!!

:applause:

[dionysus]

63. it wasn't meant to be, Bea. she's doing a great job as SoS.

:hi:

[Beacool]

66. Next time around, my friend...................

Meantime, I'll cuddle next to banky.

:pals:

[saltpoint]

58. No. It's in enough jeopardy as it is.

[JohnnyLib2]

59. It would be fascinating to have the President's answer to the OP!

Shall we send a delegate to ask?

[BolivarianHero]

65. Nope...

Because she'd also be warmongering and playing kissy-face with the C-Street bastards.

[burning rain]

67. Hell, I wish she were majority leader in the Senate.

She'd be effective, unlike Grampa Harry. But I certainly don't begrudge her taking a more fulfilling job -- State gives her a much larger and freer scope than the Senate.

[Liquorice]

69. She would have excelled in that, I think. I hope she runs for president after Obama. nt

[joeybee12]

72. Better question...wouldn't it be nice if ANYONE in the Senate was working on REFORM?

Cuz what they're throwing out is hardly healthcare reform.

[backtoblue]

83. +1

nt.

[Orsino]

73. She already was in the Senate, failing to work on health care...

...along with all the rest of 'em.

[joeybee12]

76. One of the reasons SOS was appealing to her was beacuse Reid and Teddy

wouldn't give her any major role in healthcare reform...she didn't have the seniority nor was she in line to be a player on any of the committess involved in that...I think if teddy said yes, Reid would have acquiesed, but never underestimate how egomaniacal and vengeful teddy can be.

[Beacool]

77. Exactly.

I particularly agree with your assessment of Teddy. Their house in Palm Beach was near ours, saw enough of them during the season for many years.. Lots of hubris and over-sized egos in that family.

:eyes:

[joeybee12]

80. What an idiot I am...I meant to reply to you...

...and sent it about 40 posts above!

[blm]

85. baloney - the first time GOP hit back on healthcare Bill rolled over and she slunk away and never

brought it up again.

Where did anyone get the notion Clinton would fight for anything that was important to Dems? They are welcome to PROVE how hard she fights for our issues using her senate record. Have at it.

[joeybee12]

88. She fought for the citizens of New York for their interests, and was

very popular doing so...I'm sorry the Kool-Aid is so strong that you continually drink that the word Clinton makes your head spin round...JFC...you and too many people here need to get over this...you're as bad as a freeper.

[blm]

89. She fought for 'their' interests? NY sided with Bush and wanted HRC to be docile? Sorry you drank

the kool-aid and believe NY backed Bush 100% on all his war decisions.

Of course, you are still welcome to prove how hard Hillary FOUGHT while she was in the senate.

But....you can't, can you? So... you go for personal attack as your big comeback instead. Makes you feel good, eh?. Especially since that's ALL YA GOT! Not ONE issue you can point to that she LED on in the senate. Just insults at those who can't be fooled by the "Hillary is such a fighter' BS rhetoric.

[DailyGrind51]

75. She should have Harry Reid's job!

Unlike Harry, Hillary "has a pair"!

[blm]

90. Use her senate record and show us how she used that 'pair' please.

.