"It’s NUTS! I’ve never seen it like this before!" . . . something big happening in Iran

[WilliamPitt]

From Tehran Bureau correspondent Saya Ovaisy:

It’s NUTS! I’ve never seen it like this before! It’s still going on, 9 pm now — raging! As I said, its more like a riot, totally out of control.

Earlier: This appeared to be the most successful protests since the crackdown began. It was more akin to a riot… The forces were decidedly not in control of the situation. The protests were too widespread and numerous, up and down Valiasr; and east and west, around the Mosala area entire main roads chock full — even stretching into side streets such as Yousef Abad (central
Tehran).

Guards would storm the crowd but even then the chants would continue amidst the beatings. People held their ground much more boldly than before; they would not be subdued. The guards did not remain in any one spot long, since chaotic protests swarmed in all directions. No sooner would they turn back when the crescendo of “Death to the Dictator!” would peak again and furious honking would resume and Vs would go up triumphantly.

This time, the cars were very actively involved in the protests. Honks blared incessantly in the Thursday rush hour gridlock. Drivers joined in the shouting. The traffic also helped obstruct the flow of pickups carrying Basij troops — stuck, they gazed out at the sea of cars in dismay. Some would weave in between cars and smash windshields; shattered glass lay on the asphalt at regular intervals.

http://tehranbureau.com/updates-8-mordad-30-july/#iranelection

[sandnsea]

1. OMG - News!!!

I am looking around to see if I'm in the right place!

(Thanks)

[SoCalDem]

3. But but but...has anyone located Mousavi's birth certificate yet?

:rofl:

[PVnRT]

6. I hear Ahmadinijad drinks BUD LIGHT!!!!!11!!

SCANDALOUS

[femrap]

66. Too funny....

and those aren't kitties...they're 'funny bunnies.'

[Hell Hath No Fury]

2. Iran has completely fallen off --

the MSM radar -- I haven't seen any coverage for weeks it seems. Glad to see the movement is still going strong!

[nc4bo]

12. I don't think they'd ever want to televise real revolutions, just the BS ones like tea parties

Save the Fetus and birther reunions.

If I remember correctly, they did cover the toppling of Saddam's statue pretty thoroughly.

[Fumesucker]

34. But only tight shots on the statue, no wide ones..

That would show the crowd was far smaller than they were telling us.

[4lbs]

49. Well, I knew this thing would take longer than 3 weeks for things to happen.

Look how long the last Iranian Revolution took. A full year.

We have to be patient.

[proud patriot]

65. me too

:bounce:

Iran's independence movement has inspired me .

Come to my house Sat ....

[HowHasItComeToThis]

73. MSM MUST CONCENTRATE ON THEIR MAIN TASK...

TO OVERTHROW OBAMA

[valerief]

4. These people are tremendous! nt

[Subdivisions]

5. They've gathered their second breath. They are much braver than Americans. n/t

[tabatha]

8. Absolutely.

I wish them success, but I don't know what it will take.
I hope they win.

[Echo In Light]

10. Leaps and bounds

[tuckessee]

16. They also have agent provocateurs from foreign intel groups on their side.

You'd be amazed at how much trouble a few good spooks can stir up.

[ShortnFiery]

55. NO! We don't need our spooks stirring up shit in Iran. We have enough problems

and the Iranian People resent the HELL out of our government for installing the brutal Shah in 1953.

When will we EVER learn? :grr: :nuke:

[stlsaxman]

61. you seriously believe this is a US led action?

[Posteritatis]

90. A lot of DUers believe that foreigners can't do anything without US leadership

The number who think like that doubles or triples if said foreigners are doing something that inconveniences any country the US government happens to dislike.

[DesertDiamond]

72. This is exactly what's been on my mind. Is this a real uprising of the people? Or is this...

destabilization? This fits the pattern, considering Iran was part of Bush's original Axis of Evil, was it not? Iraq, Iran, North Korea? Continued verbal aggression toward Iran by U.S. entities. Now, wow, an uprising! Again, it may be real, but I just don't know...

[defendandprotect]

84. Is there anyone here who doesn't think we've been messing around in Iran . . .??!!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

87. Depends -

1) I have no doubt that we've been messing around in Iran.
2) These uprisings have nothing to do with that.

When "we" destabilize a country we follow a script. We get at least a good segment of the press; we get a powerful, rich group of backers; we get elements in the military; and we run a top-down 'revolution' as we did in Iran in 53, in S. Vietnam in '61, in Chile in '71, in Haiti in '91, and as we attempted to do in Venezuela a few years back.

There has been NO sign that the uprisings are backed by powerful interests that want to overthrow the government - that they are anything BUT real, popular protests.

If this was due to our fucking with them, there'd be a strongman standing in the wings issuing voiceover statements and ready to step onto the stage.

These protests are happening DESPITE us, not because of us.

[Recursion]

33. +1

It's a shame how we bent over for that.

[dixiegrrrrl]

71. Love the Deninnger/Bernanke pic. !

My favorite financial blog.

[graywarrior]

7. And CNN is reporting the shit out of it, right?

[ShamelessHussy]

63. lol

[Warpy]

9. All the usual message boards came alive today

and it seems Tehran isn't the only city seeing masses of people moving out into the streets.

What remains to be seen is whether or not this translates into strikes. If it does, the government is finished.

The strike was the most successful weapon used against the Shah.

[Subdivisions]

13. Hi, Warpy! Hey, could you pass along a couple links for us

to follow? Thanks! :hi:

[WilliamPitt]

14. Search #iranelection on Twitter

You'll get the works.

[Subdivisions]

17. Thanks, Will! n/t

[WilliamPitt]

18. Tehran Bureau is the best of the lot

[Warpy]

30. Your best bet is following the daily Green Brief

http://iran.whyweprotest.net/

It's a distillation of all the stuff coming out of the country in English and Farsi, usually posted in the wee hours.

Reading the boards means reading a lot of drivel and looking for trends.

[sabrina 1]

75. Well, I am not sure why we should be cheering this on

isn't it the Shah's people who will be restored to power if this succeeds? He was a dictator who brutalized the people of Iran which led to the fundamentalist rulers now in power.

Iran was moving towards a more democratic government, I am pretty astonished at the cheering for this when we do not know who is behind it.


Richard Perle, Ledeen, Cheney, Chalabi and the rest of the neocon gang who had Iran on their hit list after Iraq, have been trying hard to stir up trouble in Iran for the past decade. When they couldn't get the US to start another war there, I wondered what they would do.

I'd like to know more about who is behind this before getting all excited about it. We've been behind many of these revolts in so many countries for so long, Iraq being an example, then installing dictators (like the Shah) who will keep the population under control while we get to steal their resources. I HAVE seen a lot of coverage of this on CNN and Fox etc. Always cheering for the overthrow of the government.

In the end, being that Iran's government has the means to do what China did, they may end up doing so and all that will happen is many people will be killed. The worst scenario would be Israel deciding to get involved and then the US eventually being dragged into it as we are very, very interested in Iran's oil.

I am very nervous about this whole thing to be honest and can't understand why there is not more caution about supporting something that may turn out to be very bad for the Iranian people and for the US. If the neocon crowd are involved, we can be sure it will not benefit anyone.

[On the Road]

80. It Would Not be the Shah's People Taking Over

I assume Mousavi would be the leader, who has just as long a background with the Islamic Republic as any of them. The structure of the government or its feelings about Khomeni would be unlikely to change.

[sabrina 1]

94. Yes, I realize that Mousavi was no friend of the Shah

The reason I mentioned that is I did see an interview with a son of the Shah recently regarding what is happening there now. There is so much we do not know. Mousavi's own background, assuming he would be the leader if the revolution were to succeed is pretty complex from a western pov. I rarely pay attention to the US media, including or espeicially, the NYT when it comes to ME politics. They were all complicit in the propaganda about Iraq.

Journalists whose opinions I respect because they have a history of reporting the facts are who I look for when events like this take place such as John Pilger eg. He has spoken about recent events and is far less enthusiastic about jumping on the bandwagon than the MSM has been. There are many, many factions with an interest in installing a government in Iran that is friendly to the west and not for the benefit of the Iranian people.

It is possible that these demonstrations, real as they may be, could be used to further the nefarious interests of people whose main concerns are oil and geo-political advantages. So, I prefer to reserve judgement is all I'm saying.

[On the Road]

97. There May Certainly be Covert US Support for the Protests

and Mousavi is likely to be less hostile to the US and the rest of the world. I just can't see either Chalabi or the Shah's people as having much influence in a possible Mousavi government.

[sabrina 1]

99. I agree with you regarding Mousavi V Chalabi et al

But leaders of revolutions, once their usefulness is past, or/and if they do not seem to be cooperative to powerful outside forces (sad to say I have learned that we, the US have never been particularly supportive of actual Democratic leaders in the countries where we 'have interests')have been known to have sudden illnesses or accidents. Mousavi has already said he will not get rid of Iran's nuclear program. He doesn't appear to be someone who would sell out his country even if he is 'more friendly' to the US. Friendly may not mean, eg, handing over control of Iran's oil as has happened with the puppet government of Iraq.

I will not forget the words of Michael Ledeen eg, regarding turning the ME into a cauldron if necessary to accomplish the goals of these people who seeem to have immense power, certainly the power to start wars.

As for the US having operatives behind this movement, it is more than likely and it is wrong unless it is purely for the benefit of helping the Iranian people. Which even as I typed it, made me laugh.

So, I'll just wait and see and remember all I learned over the past several years, not to be forgotten simply because Bush is gone .... I cannot imagine those forces that conned us into war in Iraq not having a vested interest in manipulating this situation one way or another.

[leveymg]

81. The usual suspects - the Shah, Israel, the neocons, CIA, MI6, etc, - have nothing to do with this.

Yes, there are those abroad would like to exploit popular dissatisfaction with the theocratic regime -- and to see massive bloodshed -- but, frankly, the external enemies of Iran are in no position to overthrow the mullahs.

Another Tienanmen Square is possible, but that would be a profoundly anti-revolutionary event, guaranteeing the swift end of any pretense to legitimacy by the Islamic state. Unlike China, which is essentially a fascist dictatorship, the theocratic state cannot survive without a strong base of true believers and the cooperation of the rest.

This is a domestic political and social uprising, and it will continue by fits and spasms until the system becomes more responsive to those who want democracy, modernization and an opening up to the rest of the world.

[sabrina 1]

98. Well, I wish I could be as certain as you are

I have no doubt that there are many Iranians who genuinely want a more Democratic society. That they are sincere doesn't preclude them being used, for now, to achieve a long-desired goal of the PNAC crowd who haven't gone anywhere that I am awared of and who, last I heard, were still salivating at the thought of taking care of the next step of their plans for a New World Order. To ignore the very people who convinced a nation to go to war in Iraq considering how obviously wrong it was by playing on their patriotism AND altruism (in the beginning until the Iraqis demonstrated how 'ungrateful' they were) in the form of spreading 'democracy' to our friends, the Iraqi people, would be extremely foolish, im.

They don't have to be obvious. There have been many, many reports of Special Forces in Iran eg and the paying of other groups to stir up those who are genuinely unhappy. I remember when we on the left used to be very concerned about upheaval in Iran and very conscious that, if they could not get another war going, there were other ways to get what they wanted, such as a compliant, friendly government in a country that is so strategic to the interests of the New World Order crowd.

As far as another Tienanmen Square in Iran, I doubt that will happen. But if the people succeed in overthrowing the regime, I would not, if I were Mousavi eg, who doesn't seem to be willing to give up Iran's nuclear program, get in any small planes if this really is a revolution for the benefit only, of the Iranian people and they, the people are unwilling to sell their country to the highest bidders. Because when have the interests of the citizens of countries we have 'national interests' in taken precedence over American interests? And when did the 'left' in this country lose their scepticism over anything the MSM tells them about the ME?

I could and probably am wrong, but I'd rather err on the side of caution considering the facts of the past eight years, than be jumping for joy when we do not know what opportunities the bad guys are seeing in all this.

[leveymg]

100. The only place the PNAC crowd is going is out the door

They had their chance, and blew it in the biggest possible way. There's no way that the professional military and intel people -- the ones who really run this country -- are going to let them get anywhere near the the controls of the foreign policy apparatus, again. Not for a long, long time.

As for Mousavi, he probably is in no more danger than Rastanjani was before him. Both are part of the inner-circle in Iranian politics. Replaceable, yes, but not expendable.

[PVnRT]

11. Outstanding

:thumbsup:

[LeftishBrit]

15. Very best wishes to them!!!

[Beetwasher]

19. What's W/ The US News Blackout On This?

:shrug:

[PVnRT]

21. Kind of shoots a hole in the "CIA is stirring up Iran" theory (n/t)

[Beetwasher]

22. Would Look Too Good For Obama's Foereign Policy?

And cut into the propoganda a lies about healthcare? :shrug:

[PVnRT]

26. Probably

They are awfully busy pimping lies about health care reform.

[Warpy]

57. I think the corporate news has convinced themselves

it's just a bunch of scruffy college ruffians burning garbage and trashing the streets.

We might see them wake up if this morphs into the type of strikes that brought down the Shah.

[hatrack]

70. It has nothing to do with (A) Jon & Kate; (B) Gates & Crowley: (C) Michael Jackson

i.e. ratings death - no wonder they're not covering it!!

[AntiFascist]

20. K&R n/t

[Joe Fields]

23. So, when are they all going to have a beer with the dictator?

And what brands are they to drink?

[dgibby]

24. CNN has been reporting this all day.

It's the 40 day commemoration of Nada's death, an Iranian custom. Looks like things are really revving up over there. Yea!

[Beetwasher]

25. Good!

Glad to hear it's getting coverage.

[BlooInBloo]

27. Fresh video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3YxVuD101s

[earth mom]

28. The people of this country need to step up the same way if we want health care,

jobs, action on global warming etc.

[piratefish08]

29. What the FUCK does this have to do with the current "Beer-gate" crisis!! You call this news?!?!

[JitterbugPerfume]

31. Thanks Will

It is really nice to see you

[Uncle Joe]

32. I wish the best for the Iranian People.

Thanks for the thread, WilliamPitt.

[Kurovski]

35. K&R. (nt)

[TahitiNut]

36. Please note the use of "nuts" in an affirmative vein.

The International Association of Fruits & Nuts, Ad Hoc DU Chapter, would probably approve.

:silly:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TahitiNut/606

[TahitiNut]

37. (DU glitch - noting for My Posts)

:grr:

[followthemoney]

38. Democracy is coming to the I-Ra- QIs

Sung to the tune of Leonard Cohen's "Democracy."

If the U.S. leaves Iraq, I'll be cheering too.

[PretzelWarrior]

39. this was predicted. a growing cycle of mourning and more protests that keep reinforcing

one another. Just like the increasingly amplified protests against the Shah in 1978 and 1979.

[ChiciB1]

40. Mean While.... Back In The U.S. Of AAAAAAAA... We Sit By While Our

"esteemed" LEADERS, you know the Democratic ones we voted for!! They just keep rolling along with their "little agendas" and get almost NOTHING done! And "we the people" just sit by and WATCH!!

Sorry, just "venting" a bit... my cynicism ABOUNDS!!

Oh, but there's that "beer" THINGIE, aren't we NOVEL???

[Cetacea]

41. That's nice. Which beer did they chose for the White House meeting?

:sarcasm:

Seriously, thanks Will.

[pleah]

42. K&R!

[jimlup]

43. Yeah there is even a minor mention on CNN

Frankly, I believe it should be the lead story but then I'm not the director

[trocar]

62. Wolf

Which is why 40 minutes of the Situation Room today dealt with beer...... GO figure

[grantcart]

44. inching closer to a tipping point

[sellitman]

45. Here is link to Video's of today.

http://www.youtube.com/onlymehdi

[DailyGrind51]

46. I heard over the BBC that Iran and Russia were conducting joint military exercises in the Caspian.

[Fla Dem]

47. K&R. This should be a top news story. This is amazing. n/t

[regnaD kciN]

48. It's odd that the Huffington Post, which has given heavy coverage to the Iran protests in the past..

...doesn't have a mention of this one. :shrug:

[Nothing Without Hope]

50. Thanks, Will. I'm not surprised we're not seeing much about this major event

After all, in a Muslim state, there's not much beer drinking to report on.

[ShortnFiery]

51. It's hyped. We've got our own covert ops going on there ... give it up.

The people will change Iran but NOT with any help from us.

[sabrina 1]

76. Thank you, I agree with you

I wouldn't be surprised to find out later that Chalabi and the Cheney gang are behind it. As I just posted above, I am stunned at the reaction to this without knowing anything about or who will be the puppet government if it is being orchestrated by the neocon gang who have never given up on the second part of the PNAC plan.

[LeftishBrit]

93. Just as anyone who didn't support Bush, or thought he'd stolen the 2000 election, must have been in

league with the terra-ists! :sarcasm:

Sometimes people just get sick of their RW leaders and blatant election rigging, without it meaning that it's a sinister conspiracy by the country's enemies.

[sabrina 1]

96. Or, you could turn that around. Anyone who isn't jumping for

joy over what's happening in Iran is against Democracy. Or just as those who doubted the MSM reports and photos of the 'millions' of happy Iraqis tearing down the statue of Saddam were also anti Democracy. But it turned out they were right not to trust the reporting of our corporate media.

As for getting tired of their RW leaders that may be. I am thinking more from the pov of the many factions around the world who have a vested interest in a western-type puppet government in Iran willing to do what Iraq's puppet has done. That the sincere desire for democracy could very well be manipulated and the Iranian people, even if they succeed may not get the leaders THEY choose. It's not a new concept! Certainly not in Iran or Iraq.

Very few people for whom I have respect, independent reporters and other ME experts, while not doubting the desire of many Iranians for a more democratic society, are also reserving judgement before knowing all the facts.

It would be wonderful if no one interfered in a country that has so much control over resources that we in the west seem to believe we have an absolute right to and deeply resent being placed in countries occupied by 'unworthy, ungrateful 'ragheads' and 'jihadists'. I remember the 'Iraq experts' on our lying and complicit media. The PNAC crowd succeeded with step one of their plans for the ME and not one of them has been held accountable for their war crimes. I doubt very much they've repented and are not salivating at the opportuny this could bring to move on to step two. Even if they've had nothing to do with it so far.

So, considering all we've learned over the past eight years, I am sceptical. Very sceptical for now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. At least someobdy is still posting this, I no longer bother, and yes

I got my sources. It is still going strong and it will not end well... That is all I will say about this...

[Mopar151]

53. The truth don't change

Kinda like the laws of physics...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS3QOtbW4m0

"the revolution will not be televised"

[BOG PERSON]

54. Roll your tongue back up into your mouth, learn to tell fantasy from reality

The Islamic Republic of Iran will be around, and will remain a thorn in the side of the West, for the foreseeable future.

[DCBob]

56. I suspected this revolution was not over.

Good luck to the Iranian people.

[AverageJoe5]

58. It's a waste of time and energy

Mousavi's supporters are wasting valuable time and energy on these endless protests. Their relentless sore-loser conduct is getting old.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ShamelessHussy]

64. Cake

[midnight]

95. Yum! Who painted this?

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tekisui]

82. Sore-loser?

It was a stolen election, a coup. When they marched, they were beaten and killed. You don't think they have a reason to be sore?

[WilliamPitt]

86. Wow

Haven't heard that one in a while.

You think they all have birth certificates?

:eyes:

[lark]

89. OMG, are you kidding?

If not, why in the world are you on this board? Sounds like you also thought Gore was a loser because he too protested a stolen election. I truly am dumbfounded at your remarks. There is no way in the earth that 23 million PAPER ballots could be hand counted in the 4 hours it took to announce the winner in Iran, absolutely no way. Are you saying this is a valid election?

:wtf:

[Posteritatis]

91. That guy's mainly posting pro-Ahmedinejad talking points

You should have seen him during the first round of protests last month.

[stlsaxman]

59. K and R #100!!!

"Down with dictator!"

[femrap]

67. Please let the young, the secular,

the women bring sanity back to Iran. 'Independence, freedom and Iranian Republic.'

[caseymoz]

69. Wonderful . . .

Has anyone else thought that maybe Obama removing the US threat against Iran wounded the regime? I mean, it needed a threat to terrorize people so it could stay in power. That was the Great Satan. Notice that within months of Obama offering them peace, keeping his rectitude while Amadenijad insulted him, how the regime became de-stabilized?

Obama did not issue threats or insults to Iraq as an American was arrested for spying and he watched his statements carefully as the first protests took place. And he was very much criticized by conservative politicians and propagandists for doing it.

Some give Reagan the praise for winning the Cold War. Obama deserves a little credit for weakening the regime, but the Iranian people are going to deserve this most.

[HughMoran]

74. I heard on NPR this morning that even the right-wingers were turning on "I'm a dinner jacket"

Looks like he's toast.

[dos pelos]

77. Best regards to the Iranian people.

They walk the talk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BpLFeG3Jos&feature=related

Marg Bar diktator
Marg Bar Basiji

[Vidar]

78. K&R

[Joanne98]

79. Honduras will be same same.

[westerebus]

83. Joanne 98

You were not supposed to talk about that. ;-)

[florida08]

85. Fresh videos

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/07/iran-crowd-thousands-strong-is-too-much-for-security-forces.html

One shows police beating on one Iranian but he doesn't back down. Strong people they are.

[qwertyMike]

88. You just noticed that

something big is happening in Iran?

It's been 40 days since Neda was murdered.

[Posteritatis]

92. The 40 day figure is significant

It's been relatively quiet since a few days after then, but the local population makes a big deal out of commemorating the 40th day since someone's death. More people than Neda died in June - a fact which a lot of people seem uninterested in, since most of them weren't young photogenic women and thus don't count - and the government was stupid enough to try to forbid people to observe arbayeen yesterday or toady. So yes, something big and relatively new is happening in the country right now.