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Disorderly Conduct: Conversation About Gates Arrest Precedes Arrest

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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 10:06 PM
Original message
Disorderly Conduct: Conversation About Gates Arrest Precedes Arrest
Edited on Thu Jul-30-09 10:07 PM by tblue37
Disorderly Conduct: Conversation About Gates Arrest Precedes Arrest

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/29/disorderly-conduct-conver_n_246794.html
<SNIP>

"That's why I hate the police," Tuma said. He told the Huffington Post that in a loud sing-song voice, he then chanted, "I hate the police, I hate the police." One officer reacted strongly to Tuma's song. "Hey! Hey! Who do you think you're talking to?" Tuma recalled the officer shouting as he strode across an intersection to where Tuma was standing. "Who do you think you are to think you can talk to a police officer like that?" the police officer said, according to Luke Platzer, 30, one of Tuma's companions.

Tuma said he responded, "It is not illegal to say I hate the police. It's not illegal to express my opinion walking down the street." According to Tuma and Platzer, the officer pushed Tuma against an electric utility box, continuing to ask who he thought he was and to say he couldn't talk to police like that. "I didn't curse," Tuma said. "I asked, am I being arrested? Why am I being arrested?” Within minutes, the officer had cuffed Tuma. The charge: disorderly conduct. . . .

<SNIP>

Tuma filed a complaint with the D.C. Office of Police Complaints, alleging a lack of probable cause, a false arrest, and that the officer used harassing and demeaning language -- Tuma alleges the officer called him a "faggot." Tuma has retained a lawyer. He might sue if he's not satisfied after a meeting with the complaint office on Thursday.

<SNIP>

One of the things that got lost among the obvious racial issues involved in the Gates arrest is the fact that American cops abuse their power so often that we are in the process of becoming a police state.
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maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Tuma arrest
I completaly agree, although I know good cops... what has happened in this case?
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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. "the officer used harrassing and demeaning language"
and "I hate the police" is not harassing and demeaning language? Granted, not as bad as being called "faggot".

If the cop said, "I hate gays" would that be acceptable?
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. But the man using "harassing and demeaning language" against the officer did not
shove him around, slap handcuffs on him, and arrest him.

The point is that those "disorderly conduct" charges are overly broad and vague and allow cops to abuse their position in a way that directly undermines our civil liberties, including the First Amendment.
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Pssst ...
If the cop said "I hate gays" the gay person couldn't arrest them, giving them a permanent record.

C'mon. Since when is saying "I hate the police" on a street corner grounds for arrest? In my day, people said "Kill the pigs" all the time, and all they got was a little tear gas, if anything. Now, I didn't agree with saying things like that back then, but I am also not one to believe that cops deserve undeniable respect in all cases. Just a few of the personal experiences, as an older white woman, that have led me to that position.

(1) When I was a young woman and out walking my dog (a great dane), one of New York City's finest yelled out a truly vile sexual remark to me regarding myself and my dog and the activities he presumed we engaged in. Everyone on the street turned and stared. I was mortified, humiliated, and angry ... but too scared to confront him. That's harassment and demeaning. Abuse of power.

(2) When I was a young mother pushing my second baby in a carriage around a lake in Minneapolis, I saw a group of police push two teenage kids into their squad car. The kids had their legs spread and arms up on top of the car, faces on the vehicle. They were unarmed and motionless. Then the cops, for no apparent reason, began to kick and hit and slam these defenseless kids, from behind. I was absolutely appalled and started to go demand their badge numbers. But realizing I had a 3-month-old baby with me, I again felt too scared to confront them. I will always regret that. Whatever those kids had done (and I suspect it wasn't much), there was no reason to physically abuse them.

(3) A few years ago, in the bar/restaurant behind my building in a very nice neighborhood, some young, twenty-something office workers were playing pool. Three off-duty cops beat them up, and when uniformed police were called to the scene, the off-duties waved them away and continued beating up the men. By the way, those cops were exonerated in by a Cook County judge recently, despite evidence on videotape and evidence that cops were turned away from the scene after several 911 calls were placed.

I won't even tell the story about when my husband asked a policeman politely what the law was when he was asked to move his car, and the policeman responded "I am the law" and slapped him with a criminal court appearance. Turned out the "violation" ( violation for asking what a law was, given that six or seven chauffeur-driven cars were also idling in front of the same building, and there was no sign prohibiting standing) was a traffic court violation that cost $15. But it took a lawyer and about 12 hours of phone calls to find out the cop was just being an asshole.

I've also had good experiences with police officers, and appreciate their service. but they are not always due the benefit of the doubt. They are public servants, and they need to respect the public. We pay their salaries. They should not harass us, beat us up for no reason, issue fake vindictive tickets, or arrest people for exercising their free speech.


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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Are you fucking serious?
You don't know the difference between a citizen and a police officer?

Are you fucking serious?
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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Isn't a police officer also a citizen?
n/t
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yes, but he also has responsibilites and limits to his power that
come with his role as a police officer, and if he uses that power to abuse others in a way that a "mere" citizen cannot, then he is also not living up to his responsibilities. One of the things cops are not supposed to do is to use their power to harass and abuse people.
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itsrobert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yes, we all understand that
But should citizens run around yelling "I hate the police"? just because they feel from a distance that they know how many cops it takes for traffic stop without knowing the facts? Is there a body in the truck, is it a kidnapping, is it someone fleeing from a murder/rape/crime scene? Or it may of been a simple traffic stop. But going around half-cocked and yelling at a whole group of people "I hate you" shouldn't be condone by liberal thinking people. Yes, we have free speech. Maybe he could of said "I hate some cops" or "I hate the bad cops"?

I can understand the guys anger, but yelling "hate" isn't going to solve anything. And it doesn't deserve an arrest, inappropriate name calling, and physical violence either. Cops should be trained to shrug it off and move on. ie: Citizen: "I hate the police" Cop: "I understand you hate the police and it's noted, now can you please move on? I'm over watching this traffic stop and I'm a little busy right now."
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. I don't think that anybody could have predicted there were so many bad apples.
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. Excellent example of abuse of power
and it is not uncommon, just not often reported.

I have witnessed cops who have behaved totally opposite - cool, calm, and in total control, the way you'd expect and hope a police officer to behave. It takes a certain temperament and proper training to be a good cop.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
7. There is something in the Patriot Act that gave the cops this 'authority'.
I don't know what it is. But it's apparent they believe they have have a right to order complete submission. Their training is at odds with what we've known about about their limits. We seems to have no leeway if they are personally offended. They are like whining, demanding mothers or fathers. Listen to me. Do as I say. Because I told you so. They are children acting in a parental way. Someone told them this is the new way? What's in the Patriot Act?
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I think it may be called State of Emergency?
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-31-09 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. Another pig headed man with a badge and no sense of decency.
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