Dow Jones up 15%, more than 1200 points, since January 20th

[DaveinJapan]

That'd be the day President Obama took office.

DOW Jan 20, 2009 7949.09
DOW July 30, 2009 9154.46





Thanks, President Obama! :party:

[JanMichael]

1. that's had no impact on unemployment. zip.

the stock market ceased to be a true indicator of the economy years ago. move on.

[FrenchieCat]

2. 401k statements do mean something....

as they certainly do mean something,
and if it helps us, its a good thing.

[rockymountaindem]

3. Yep.

I, for one, am happy the market's going up. Better than having it go down, after all.

[Statistical]

27. $2 trillion worth of 401K, IRA, and other ivnestments was erased in the crash.

Those that don't have investments think investments are "for the rich only".

The reality is about half of American has investment in some shape or fashion (mostly 401K and IRA).
So when $2T worth of net worth gets erased along with $8T in housing net worth people tighten up.

They aren't going to spend more until they see their financial situation improve. More spending = more economic activity = greater demand on producers = more employment.

Those that love to bash the rich fail to see the stock market recovery is important for overall economic recovery.

[DaveinJapan]

4. Forward looking indicator...

Is now, always has been.

The market showed signs of wreckage long before the jobs started disappearing, as well (not necessarily all of it, but certainly large chunks of it).

[4lbs]

5. Employment is usually the last thing that improves after a recession.

The stock market, and the measure of leading economic indicators (which is up for the 3rd month in a row), is usually the first.

[Johonny]

12. while the two are not necessarily highly correlated

they are related. The stock market can be a leading indicator of economic recovery. Employment however is often a trailing indicator. Which is to say jobs often don't return until after the economy is in recovery. If you are hoping that job recovery is coming this may be a good sign.

[Statistical]

25. Forward vs Lagging indicators.

Companies increase employment last in an economic recovery.

They always have, they always will.

They generally have people work overtime before hiring new workers because it is easier to cut overtime then fire newly trained (expensive) workers.

So only once companies have no choice but to hire more will they hire more. They do this to protect themselves in case the recovery fails. Locating, hiring, training, terminating is expensive and non-productive. No company wants to go through that 2, 3, 4 times in a single downturn.

[doc03]

6. According to Dennis Neil on CNBC Reports

the credit goes to the groundwork laid out by GWB last fall.

[SleeplessInAlabama]

8. Please, buddy....

Don't quote Dennis on here.

He makes my brain bleed.

[doc03]

9. I guess we could all see it coming

of course GWB will get the credit if the economy picks up, if it doesn't it's Obama's fault.

[Johonny]

14. Even if we want to give some credit to GWB

don't you have to then lay some of the blame on him too? I don't think this is a huge exciting winner for the Bush team.

[doc03]

17. Well of course not any blame goes to Bill Clinton,

Barney Franke, Chris Dodd, Jimmy Carter or even FDR.

[MercutioATC]

7. NOT a measure of economic health, but it definitively puts the "Obama tanked the stock market"

argument to rest.

[asdjrocky]

10. Yeah it's just swell.

The rich are getting richer by down sizing and outsourcing and lay offs. USA! USA! USA! Thank God the barons of finance are still well fed.

Fuck wall street.

[DaveinJapan]

11. I completely agree with you, however

the better the markets do, the better the left wing chances going forward, which I feel is important because I *never* want to relive the horror that was most of the 2000's with the GOP firmly in control.

[asdjrocky]

15. Sure, but a lot of people have been living that same horror

since 2006. We've had two elections and there is still no real difference for the poor and working people. There has been no real effort made on our part.

I have had it up to as high as it goes with wall street, banking and all of them. Watching wall street numbers is like watching a polo match to me, I'll never understand it and I'll certainly never have enough money to play.

Again, fuck wall street. No offense, but unless you are a millionaire, these people care more about where they piss than they do you.

[bemildred]

13. Thanks indeed. Now for the job situatiion. nt

[doc03]

18. I heard a couple days ago that after the last recession

employment didn't start recovering for 18 months.

[bemildred]

19. We've had other recessions?

I thought the free market took care of that. How do they tell anyway?

[doc03]

20. Well yes that was the 2001 recession and even though GWB

was the pResident he constantly called it the Clinton recession. All those good years under Clinton were actually the Bush recovery.

[Hawkowl]

22. Employment NEVER recovered

This was a constant source of outrage to me. The media and the government would crow about all the jobs that W was creating. What they didn't tell you was that the pace of job creation couldn't even keep up with the increase in POPULATION! Therefore there was an almost continuous loss of jobs under W, which has merely intensified under Obama.

There currently is an all time record of over 8 million unemployment recipients. This does not include those who are unemployed and don't receive unemployment checks. This is the highest percentage of unemployment in 68 years! and it is not getting better in the slightest. The total number of unemployment in increasing every week. The MSM headlines today of unemployment is getting better was derived from the fact that 325,000 people were simply moved off the 13 week unemployment benefit rolls as if they were magically now employed. We will be approaching Great Depression levels of unemployment in a matter of months. (Unemployment is calculated differently now and the best comparison rate would be U6 not U3 which is widely reported).

The economy will not recover until employment picks up. Yes it traditionally is a lagging indicator for most recessions. However, this time your best comparison would be the Great Depression.

[doc03]

24. Tell me about it I am laid off with 39 years

seniority. As far as creating jobs neither GWB or Obama create (jobs). The government stimulus may create some (temporary work) but not jobs. The reason we have jobless recoveries, orders for goods dry up and manufacturing facilities are shut down. When the economy recovers in industries such as steel, it is cheaper to build a new state of the art facility in China than bring an old plant back on line. You shut a blast furnace or coke plant down for a year you just as well scrap it. Everyone is to blame for it, it goes clear back to Nixon's visit to China. The Republicans tried and could never get NAFTA passed when the Democrats controlled congress. It took Bill Clinton to push it through with Republican votes and enough Democrats thrown in to pass it. In my opinion when Reagan fired the Air Traffic Controllers and the Unions didn't have the backbone to fight it was the beginning of the end for labor unions. NAFTA and the WTO put the final nail in the coffin for manufacturing in the USA. I saw a report on TV yesterday where China is even far ahead of us in wind turbine production and use. That was supposed to be a new industry that would create jobs here and we have lost that battle already.

[rollingrock]

16. In bad times, companies will balance out their finances

by laying their people off. Which is only natural because when your sales plummet you won't need to have as many workers. But by shedding workers all your company has done is make their costs fall in line with the drop in sales, balancing their financial statements. That's why the Dow Jones is by no means an indicator of economic progress. A 'jobless recovery' is nothing to cheer about. A true recovery will occur when sales go up and companies start hiring again. But when you have record unemployment, that depresses your sales even further because people aren't spending and then you have a vicious downward cycle that just keeps getting worse.

[Art_from_Ark]

21. Just keep in mind that the stock market reached 14,000

when Duhbyuh was occupying the White House.

Infuse the market with enough trillions, and you're bound to get an uptick.

[exboyfil]

23. I went back in on Inauguration Day

I sold about 2/3s of my position after the run up. I think it is headed back down.

[Blue_Tires]

26. if all those jerkoffs on the so-called 'business news' channels

bashed Obama back in April for low market numbers, they got to love and proclaim him 'the greatest' now....

[ThomWV]

28. I have been putting money into a European stock fund that is up nearly 70% for the year.