I saw a big mural of "Atlas Shrugged" painted on the wall at Barnes & Noble

[armyowalgreens]

There were books painted all over the walls.

Of Mice and Men
The Catcher in the Rye
Frankenstein
etc...

Tons of classics.

But as I looked across the store examining all the different book paintings, my eyes fell upon Atlas Shrugged. I immediately wanted to say something to the person working at the customer service desk. But I realized that she probably wouldn't give a crap just like the majority of the population.

So I picked up my copy of "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them" and walked out.

[Amos Moses]

1. something I found over at

RevLeft

[Liberal_in_LA]

2. lol n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

11. Oh, that's beautiful. n/t

[johnfunk]

141. ROTFLMFAO! Atlas Sucks!

[snagglepuss]

156. LOLOLOL

thanks for posting

[Norrin Radd]

3. Yeah, I never got the Rand=classic consensus. In fact, nothing

should be hailed a classic in it's own century; that way, we could weed out the pretenders.

[MrScorpio]

7. Seeing how Jack Kirby's Silver Surfer was so 20th Century

I think now that we can call it a bonafide classic

[Norrin Radd]

155. I'll second that. ;-)

[Naturyl]

4. "Atlas Shrugged" is the best-titled libertarian screed ever.

The title really says it all. Throwing the weight of the world off your shoulders and living only for self-interest. Leaving behind all compassion and conscience. Rand's anarcho-capitalist utopia is the stuff nightmares are made of.

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. What a concise synopsis. Thanks for saving me the trouble of reading it! :^D

[Jakes Progress]

48. It is the stuff dreams are made of. neocon wet ones. nt

[Occulus]

148. Rand's philosophy- such as it is- is both heavily mocked and used as a backdrop in "Bioshock"

Video game for the PC, 360, and I think PS3.

"Bioshock", for the uninformed, is set in an underwater city, on the floor of the mid-Atlantic Ocean. It was built by industrial magnate Andrew Ryan (cute pun on Rand's very name!), as a place where the "best and brightest" could do their thing without interference:

I am Andrew Ryan, and I am here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

'No,' says the man in Washington, 'it belongs to the poor.'
'No,' says the man in the Vatican, 'it belongs to God.'
'No,' says the man in Moscow, 'it belongs to everyone.'

I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose...

Rapture.

A city where the artist would not fear the censor,
where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality,
where the great will not be constrained by the small.

And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city, as well.

It's basically a what-if game based on the question, "what if there really were a place in which Ayn Rand's so-called 'philosophy' were put into place as the societal and economic norm?"

Bioshock was brilliant on just about every level. If you have a current-gen console, or a relatively recent gaming PC, Bioshock definitely belongs on your shelf.

[Ladyhawk]

150. I noticed that five minutes into the game. LOVED Bioshock.

I caught the "Andrew Ryan" reference as soon as I knew my guide was "Atlas." And since my brother is a rabid Objectivist, I knew I was going to love the game. FPS is my genre, after all.

The only thing an Objectivist and I have in common is atheism.

I believe we all should outgrow religion, but I'm certainly not in favor of legislation to that end. The battleground is reason and keenly argued positions.

[ropi]

5. *eye twitch*

*shudders at the thought*

[armyowalgreens]

12. I think I might attempt to read it in the coming months...

I've read a lot of excerpts and summaries. But I've never actually read the book. And I look kind of foolish mocking the book when I've never read it.

[TexasProgresive]

14. Thank you

Not for thinking about reading Rand but the admitting that it is kind of foolish to comment on something that you haven't personal experienced.

This seems to be one of the marks of the last quarter of the 20th century where people gave more credence to commentators and less to their own judgment.

[TrogL]

19. It's worth reading just to see how really batshit Rand is

You pretty much realize that she has no idea how people really think, talk and behave.

You also get to view first-hand her wierd obsessions eg. half-naked ladies in off-the-shoulder dresses. (last I checked, an off-the-shoulder dress would make a lady about 15% naked, to get at %50 you're nearing bikini territory)

[gmoney]

22. The abridged audiobook is about 9 hours...

The unabridged is about 50 hours...

I can't imagine how long it would take to ACTUALLY read the thing...

At Borders the other day, I was in Literature and noticed that they had three shelves teeming with Atlas Shrugged in hardback, two large format paperbacks, and a smaller paperback, with a few copies of The Fountainhead thrown in... not sure if everyone is reading it, but apparently people are buying it.

[ropi]

26. well- it's an interesting read.

however, the flow chart above really does lay it all out for you.

[MindPilot]

27. I tried, I really, really tried

But even confining myself to some form of transportation, I simply could not get more than a third of the way through it. I feel like a 3rd grader reading Homer -- I just don't get it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

35. You've never read it -

and yet you were going to say something to the person at the customer service desk about it?

Come on. You're better than that.

Make up your own mind.

Personally, I found "Atlas Shrugged" a fun read, and the movie, "The Fountainhead," was fun, too, but I like Gary Cooper.

NEVER let what others say make up your mind for you. NEVER.

Do the reading and make up your own mind. It's called "education," and you're well in the middle of it..................................

[gmoney]

39. uh, the Gary Cooper movie is "The Fountainhead" not Atlas Shrugged

There's a lot of similarity between the books, so it's easy to confuse 'em.

I seem to recall talks of Angelina Jolie playing Dagney in a film version of some sort... maybe a miniseries?

on edit... seems you edited while I was posting...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

41. Yeah, I realized I forgot to put in the title -

it's already been fixed.

I'd watch that movie. I love that woman. But, the stories are great fun and great reading...........................

[Occulus]

151. I'd rather reread "Les Miserables" for the fifth time

than read any of Rand's "novels" for the first time.

I'm sorry, but there are some suthors I'd rather not contaminate myself with, and Rand is right at the top of the list.

[wickerwoman]

6. That's what happens when you chose literary classics based on the cover art.

I think those murals are standards... I've seen them at almost every B&N I've been to.

[paulsby]

8. i hope you paid for it

BEFORE you walked out. :)

[armyowalgreens]

9. I jacked that shit reeeeal fast...

Stickin' it to the man.

:headbang:

[paulsby]

10. steal this book... redux nt

[blondeatlast]

17. And yet, B&N is known for great employee relations, offering benefits (including

affordable medical) to PT workers, and donating heavily to the Democratic Party.

Congratulations on sticking it to, well--me. I'm a shareholder living in a modest apartment while I attend school.

You must be so proud.

[armyowalgreens]

66. I was kidding. I paid for the book.

[Are_grits_groceries]

13. Those pictures have been up in all stores

ever since BN decided to use them. I have no idea why they picked them. It isn't some sudden idea to take advantage of the uptick in interest. You are also likely to get a reserved response from a clerk because they don't want to get in some discussion that goes wrong. You never know who you are talking to, and what the motive is. I worked in a store where fundies would try to trip people and get them to say something they didn't like.

I worked in bookstores for years. People would accuse us of putting Ann Coulter in the back and hidden away. Oh how I longed to say we held a burning of them behind the store and had burned certain herbs to ward off the evil.

[juno jones]

15. I wish Rand had been better at acting.

She wanted to be an actress and had small parts in movies of the time.

Wish she'd got her break and been the next 'it' girl or something.

Now, If only someone had bought one of Hitler's paintings as well...

[mitchum]

23. But she wasn't "pretty" enough to be a success as as actress...

it appears that she believed in the default formula of "if I'm not pretty, I MUST be smart"
Alice, you were neither of those. Just a bitter woman with a comb over.

[juno jones]

28. Hey, a small creature of indeterminate sexuality

with a comb-over and a little moustache should have been box office catnip then just like, I mean,... In other words... let me Godwin this thread again...just like Hitler. :P

[mitchum]

31. I really am laughing out loud.

That was fantastic

[juno jones]

43. Thanks.

I honestly don't know where it came from, but it was cracking me up as I typed it. :P

On edit: I saw some of her stills from back in the day, Oy!

[Doremus]

138. Lol, a combover that hasn't seen shampoo in weeks.

Also, an accurate description wouldn't be complete without mentioning the oedipal tendencies. ;) :rofl:

[juno jones]

144. I hadn't thought of that, but now that you've mentioned it....

:toast:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

37. Ever see the film "Max"?

I'm a John Cusack film, and this is one of his unheralded bits of genius, as far as I'm concerned..............

http://movies.about.com/library/weekly/aamaxinta.htm

[juno jones]

47. No, but I am writing it down.

I'll look for it. Thanks! :hi:

I tend to enjoy Cusack's stuff.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

56. You will LOVE it -

I guarantee that. I even bought the DVD because it went nowhere commercially, and I never wanted to go looking for it and be unable to find it.

It's just brilliant.

Enjoy!!!

:hi:

[ArbustoBuster]

16. This is how I always reply to anyone who claims to like Atlas Shrugged:

[Dutch]

20. Ha! That's an awesome strip, thanks for posting.

[Dutch]

21. Surely the most tedious, fatuous work in, ahem "literary" history deserves commemoration.

I mean, Atlas Shrugged isn't just bad - it's monumentally bad. Heroically stupid. Rand actually puts together 1300 pages of words in such a way that they are actually more boring and less meaningful than the blank paper. Anyone can write a crap book, but it takes a real talent to write as laughable a piece of garbage as Atlas Shrugged. Rand had that kind of talent in bucketloads, as do the Objectivist Randroids that corporate money is suddenly prompting universities to try and accord respectability to (polishing the proverbial turd).

[mitchum]

25. That's why I never refer to her as a "hack"...

because "hackdom" generally conveys a facility with language. Rand was a tin-eared lunatic.

[The Stranger]

24. Amazes me how many DUers encounter Freeper propaganda, never say anything, then run here to tell us.

Why didn't you just tell the manager what you wanted to tell him or her?

[Johonny]

29. I'm prettu sure their text explains the answer

I immediately wanted to say something to the person working at the customer service desk. But I realized that she probably wouldn't give a crap just like the majority of the population.


My guess they thought here was a more sympathetic audience. I'm pretty sure the manager doesn't decide the interior decorations for the franchise and would infact not give a crap.

Why is it there at all? Probably they sell a lot of copies and thus there's not bigger conspiracy at work than there is for having catcher N the rye on the wall.

[The Stranger]

121. That text really illustrates my point.

The OP has no inkling about any of the things posted -- yet one simple, polite but firm question would have solved the problem.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

80. Reading the posts here

would have given you the answer to your question:

The OP has never read the book.

He was just parroting what he'd heard about it - probably here at DU.

He couldn't say anything to anyone about it because he hadn't read it.

It requires an informed mind to have an opinion. Without having read it, the OP could have no valid opinion.

And what if the person to whom he complained had actually read the book?

He'd have been shamed and embarrassed because of his ignorance.

Ignorance - not a good thing, and hardly a basis on which to complain.

Also, complaining about a book is, in my opinion, anyway, perfectly legitimate if you've read it, but if someone is going to start demanding that a bookstore - a place in the business of selling books - shouldn't sell something because some people object to its message, that's censorship, that's ugly, and that's not part of my America, or yours, I should think............................................

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I hate to point this out but as much as I hate it, IT IS a classic of

20th century literature.

Now I don't agree with the vision, but as a piece of fiction, which is what it should have been for evah, it is a classic.

That is why it is there.

And yes, ALL books have some measure of the author's POV, political and otherwise, even things like the little green caterpillar, one of Junior's all time favorites.

[mitchum]

33. But it can't stand on its literary merits...

because it has none.
Most literature departments in this country don't consider it to be a classic. It's not in the canon. And rightly so.

[JuniperLea]

45. Google is your friend...

It's on university and college reading lists all over the world.

LIterary merits is in the eye of the reader... being that literature is an art, and all art is subjective.

[mitchum]

49. Despite pathetic attempts to push it, it is not in the canon...

and never will be

[JuniperLea]

50. I think that's just your opinion... eom

[mitchum]

55. It's capitalist porn for half-bright teenagers...

THAT'S my opinion

[JuniperLea]

58. Only idiots who believe it's real, and not fiction...

I don't have such vitriolic opinions of fiction, or art, or anything subjective by nature. I find it very difficult to wrap my mind around any thought in that area at all. Which makes you a very odd creature in my mind. But that's just my opinion, and it shouldn't be taken as an insult. In my mind, going along with the crowd is pathetic and unwise. That would pertain to those who imho foolishly follow the Rand books as if they were texts, and those who rail against all things Rand because they don't see anything but those who foolishly follow as text.

[mitchum]

63. No, I just see her as a really bad writer.

Celine, Pound, and Eliot were rather unpleasant people, but they could write. Well.
Rosenbaum doesn't even display the facility of a hack.

[JuniperLea]

75. And that is your subjective opinion, nothing more...

I prefer the Russians.

The Death of Ivan Ilyich, when I first read it around age 12, pulled me in... Dostoevsky, Chekhov, and Pasternak followed the Tolstoy, and there was no going back. If I had a dollar for every person who ever saw me toting one of their tomes and said what a waste, I could retire.

[mitchum]

79. Well, her bad great Russian novel "We The Living" is her best work

Rosenbaum almost rises to the level of hack with that one. Almost.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

84. I'm curious -

why do you keep referring to her as "Rosenbaum"?

[mitchum]

92. Because that's her real name (Alice Rosenbaum)...

and using it annoys her fans.
However, I have always found "Ayn Rand" to be a wildly appropriate pen name; it sounds EXACTLY like what a half-bright teenage girl would deem to be "glamorous" and "exotic"

[Tangerine LaBamba]

96. Is Mel Brooks

Melvin Kaminsky to you?

My experience - and it is only my experience - with people who do that is that it's always Jewish names and it smacks of anti-Semitism.

Doesn't bother me, but I was just wondering. That someone would use a pen name bothers you?

Interesting.....................

[mitchum]

104. Actually, her fellow right winger Florence King wrote a really nice essay over 20 years...

ago, about how the theme of the self-loathing Jew runs throughout Rand's work. So, yes...one could argue that Rand was quite adept at anti-Semitism.
That someone uses a pen name doesn't bother me (as stated earlier, I find her pen name to be wildly appropriate) What I find amusing is how her fans get so bent out of shape when one uses her real name.
Odd. It doesn't bother me when someone refers to Twain as "Samuel Clemens"
Interesting...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

105. Samuel Clemens was his name,

but his pen name was Mark Twain. He never gave up being Sam Clemens.

I wasn't suggesting that Rand/Rosenbaum was a self-loathing Jew, although I agree that she probably was.

I was suggesting that your insistence on using her real name is anti-Semitic.

But, even as you say you don't mind that someone uses a pen name, you find it "wildly inappropriate."

I find that amusing.

But, it takes all kinds. And we've all got our likes and dislikes and biases, and we show them in the oddest ways..........

[mitchum]

106. No, I said her pen name is wildly appropriate...

not inappropriate.
I repeat: Because it sounds exactly like what a half-bright teenage girl would deem to be "glamorous" and "exotic"

[JuniperLea]

109. Why do you hate her so?

Why does it matter to you at all?

Other than GWB, I don't think I hate anyone that much.

[mitchum]

128. It would take an 80 page soliloquy to explain why I hate her...

and only a writer as inept and inelegant as Rand would attempt something so wrongheaded :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. You are unfamiliar wiht Latin American Literature?

:-)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

111. Oh, sorry -

I misread that. Sorry.

She was not a happy person, but that has nothing to do, in my mind, with her work. Mixing up the singer with the song never worked for me. I just like what I read, or I don't like it. The politics of the writer, or the failed dreams, or the personal idiosyncracies, are nothing to me. The work is what it's about.

Names, indeed, are the least of it, as far as I'm concerned. Give me the art..................

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Your opinion, but it is in the canon, for both science fiction

and dystopic fiction.

Why it is found in many a college readying lists around the world.

Ed for the stoopid mistake, canon vs cannon

[mitchum]

60. Okay...genre reading lists

just as "The Maltese Falcon" is also found on genre reading lists.
Which is where those works belong.
The difference being that, Hammett, unlike Rosenbaum, could actually write. She doesn't even rise to the level of hack.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Given that Frankestein is also science fiction, there you go

look ALL writing done, don't care who does it, has a political bent. Mine does... I just happen to be more ahem Liberal than Ann Ryand... but you should know... 1984 is also Dystopic and Science Fiction.

Got it?

Don't like it, don't read it, UNLESS you are assigned that in a College Lit or History course. Lord knows I read some weird shit in history classes, see Frankenstein AND 1984.

[JuniperLea]

Writing ability is subjective to the reader...

And anyone who thinks they know better than any individual's subjective likes and dislikes is truly kidding themselves.

Art, music, and literature may receive awards, but those who give out awards are basing them on their own subjectivity. There are a lot of things I don't like in all three areas, but I'd never say your favorite band is crap without giving you the right to love the hell out of them.

[JuniperLea]

61. And The Fountainhead is on many architectural school...

Reading lists as well.

I always got a kick out of that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Yeah I had to read some of that in an architecture apreciation class

That was well before I knew who Rand truly was.

[JuniperLea]

85. I'm glad I read her way in advance...

Of being told to by some reading list or school, and decades in advance of finding out people actually believe and live by that crap! LOL!

Stephen King can be a fun read, but I'll be damned if I'm going to go bury my pets somewhere weird, or touch some meteor and get meteorite shit all over me! Hmmm. Off topic, but that particular King story, I swear, is blatantly plagiarized!

The Voice in the Night is a short story by William Hope Hodgson, and the whole "meteorite shit" deal is lifted directly from this short story from 1907... or thereabouts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. You want scarier... here is a true story from a comicon over ten years ago

We used to do demos for a game called Battletech... which had its own book line. (Yes giant walking robots are cool, but lord knows I'd not like to live anywhere in that fictional world, not even the closest to us, House Davion)

Anyhow, we are doing demos and I get challenged by a kid for a circle of equals. Ok, fine, got minis will travel. No, kid meant for real. His daishi. a 100 ton Mech (that exists only in the world of the imagination) was parked in the parking lot... I went... HOOOLLLLYY SHIIITT!

It is funny, but the same goes for those who live by Ann Ryand's Objectivism as a real life applicable theory, all the way... (incidentally the same goes for naive marxists or even capitalists...)

Things are a little different in the real world, where I live, than in the theories given by so many philosophers and fiction writers. Damn it I like my Heguel better than my Marx... LOL.

[JuniperLea]

112. Great story!

If there weren't people that "dedicated" (I'm being kind here) to stories, we would have never seen a Klingon wedding:)

Humans are so interesting!

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. I actually had a LONG TALK with parents

They actually took kid to see specialist from what I understand. It wasn't just Mechs that he was imagining... damn creche MechWarrior... (genetically engineered)

It also 'splained to parents why he tended to ignore them.

He had issues...

Oh and me, doing demos, I "took it seriously." Got myself a flight suit with proper patches and boots. First and last time I went to Comicon in costume...

My chipewa firefighting boots were a pain, in the literal sense of the word.

:-)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

87. The daughter of a good friend of ours

went to Princeton's architecture school, and The Fountainhead was on her preliminary reading list - to be completed before classes started.

I was floored, and then delighted.

She LOVED it, and grabbed Rand's other work to have for "fun reading" when she went off to New Jersey. Great kid, who is in the process of becoming a great architect.............................

[ColbertWatcher]

32. How can you be sure that it's for the hack Rand and not for the original myth? n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

34. Think about free speech,

and then tell what you might have said to the person working there.

Books are wonderful things.

Book-banners and book-burners are not wonderful things......................

[JuniperLea]

46. I can hardly believe what I'm reading in this thread...

I thought "we" were better than that.

Weird, just weird.

Banners and burners should be banned:)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

54. The OP has a fine mind and a great attitude

and a brilliant future. I know him a little bit, and I like him a great deal.

He's very young, bless his heart, and smart enough to have caught himself, big enough to have admitted it.

I like him even better now.

That said, this thread is the perfect example of what I now call Mother Superior's School Of Kneejerk PC Mindless Novitiates." The concept of thinking for yourself, and perhaps going against the gang mentality, is something that WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

I exaggerate.

Sort of.

Free speech - for them. Not for others.

Cute, huh?

[JuniperLea]

57. Quite cute:)

I think there is some study to be done on the subject of group mentality, group think, and group action. Lemmings and fishes and moths to the flame... the uncontrollable desire to be part of the crowd.

Momma raised me to believe being different was good, and the desired outcome. I mean, if all your friends are jumping off a bridge does it mean you must as well? To some, it's the only way to fly:)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

70. To others,

Masada was the only way.

It's fascinating, I agree.

I had an anarchist grandfather who conceded to being a socialist, if pushed, and he taught me to trust the powerful as far as I could throw them. He also taught me that the best view - the only way you could see everything - was from the outside. So I worked to become as "inside" as I could get so as to be able to run outside and watch from my perch. It worked.

Some honestly believe that traveling with the herd will ensure that they'll fly once they jump off that bridge.

What a lousy surprise they have waiting for them as they sink with barely a ripple.............................................

[Bjorn Against]

86. In fairness to the OP they never called for Atlas Shrugged to be banned

Nothing in the OP suggests that Ayn Rand did not have the right to free speech nor that Barnes and Noble did not have the right to stock the book on their shelves. They may not have liked seeing a giant Ayn Rand mural on the wall just as I would not like to see a giant Rush Limbaugh mural on the wall, but having a negative reaction to such an image is not the same thing as wanting to see that image banned. There are many people that do pose a serious threat to free speech in America today, but there is nothing in the OP that makes me believe that the person who posted this thread is one of those people.

That being said I have to admit that as wrong-headed as I believe Ayn Rand was, she certainly did have an enormous amount of influence and as much as I hate to admit it her books are classics. I can understand why Barnes and Noble would have a mural of her work on the wall even if I did have to cringe when I walked by it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

89. Oh, I KNOW! I really do know!

I was just taking what he had intended to do, and extrapolated from it. That he never spoke up - and it turned out that he'd never read the book, so he was smart to be quiet - was not relevant to my musing. I just wondered, what would he have said?

That it shouldn't have been up there? That it was a book they shouldn't sell? That it was something or other of which some people might not approve?

That was where I saw that kind of "complaint" going. I'm very, very leery of people who complain about books. You can have all the opinions you want, but books - to me - are sacred things, and if they say things with which you do not agree, that's fine, but you cannot - you do not have the right to - ask for them to be removed, or any such thing.

I'm sorry I was so clumsy about it. I never meant to cast aspersions on the OP, someone I happen to like very much. Mine was more of a "what if" observation.

And, you're right about why her work would be up there. Part of American literature, even if you don't like her style or content.

Thanks, by the way, for a very thoughtful post. Much appreciated...........................

[armyowalgreens]

93. Yeah...I know. *hangs head in shame*

I sometimes have a problem of opening my mouth before reflecting upon the potential consequences. I almost got the crap kicked out of me by a gang at my school because I decided to be a smart ass when they were giving my friends shit.

That's something I need to work on.


But I would never suggest that the book should be banned. I would probably say that Ayn Rand had some horrible philosophical ideologies.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

98. Listen, my friend -

you know how highly I think of you. And I hope you take none of what I wrote here personally. Because you behaved well and caught yourself and will never even be tempted to do anything like that again.

So I'd say you learned something really big at a very inexpensive price.

I know you would never suggest banning a book. I really do. But your actions could have opened the door to any number of possible scenarios, all of them unpleasant.

Read the book. Your fine mind will enjoy it.

Always, honey, always read the book. As I said, you're far too good for anything else. Your mind will thank you, and I'll just continue being proud of you.............................

:yourock:

[JuniperLea]

36. I've always loved Ayn Rand's books...

They are fiction, and they should never be construed as something society should actually seek to attain.

The last paragraph of The Fountainhead is one of my all time favorite pieces of work.

Too many people are confused and think these works are to live by. Not smart. No smarter than trying to live by The Hobbit, or The Winter of Our Discontent.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

38. Bingo!

And I loved the movie, "The Fountainhead," too.

Both are great fun.......................

[JuniperLea]

40. It made me cry...

But it was fun!

It cracks me up that so many are so confused on this that they develop this visceral hatred toward Rand! LOL!

I hate that damn Popeye! It's ridiculous to think that spinach can make you grow instantly stronger! And no one really has forearms like that! And those anchor tattoos... such a stupid sailor stereotype!

:rofl:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

42. For years, my ideal was Bugs Bunny -

and then one day, I tried to outrun someone, looking for my rabbit hole.

No rabbit hole.

It ended badly.

Lying bastard wabbit.

My guess is that most people who make all those anti-Rand rants have never read anything written by her. She was a pretty good writer, and her works, while a bit repetitive, were real page-turners, very good beach reads.

But, who needs to do the actual reading in order to have an opinion? Witness the admission of the OP - that he was "going to say something" to someone in the bookstore, but my guess is that he didn't because he wouldn't have known what to say, since he hadn't read the book, and what if the person to whom he was complaining had actually read the book?

[JuniperLea]

44. I think you would like this one...

Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time
Michael Shermer

Yeah, there is a bandwagon. And many will critique her writing saying it's all poorly written, blah blah blah... what is music to my ears may not be music to yours. Why is it people just don't get that all art, literature, film, and music is purely subjective. I think it makes people look really stupid to condemn another for their own personal taste in anything. I think it shows a very limited ability to think independently. Some people apparently need to be told what to like. Weird.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

64. Looks good, and thanks -

I'm in the process of ordering my very own copy right now, thank you very much.

Do you remember this classic?

"A Nation Of Sheep," by William J. Lederer. First edition was 1961, and I had a great Economics teacher who gave me a copy to read. I still love that man, and got to thank him a lot for what he did for that young mind of mine.

It's more relevant today than it was almost fifty years ago.

http://tinyurl.com/mzwx58

The need to herd, the need to belong, the fear of being unable to sustain the courage of one's convictions, the inability to have any convictions, the need to be told what to think - those are some of the factors, I think, that go into the blind following that seems to define so many people on the political right and left.

Oh, believe me - people LOVE to be told what to do. Why do you think those B&D businesses continue to thrive, even in times of economic downturn?

They love to be led. Consider Germany in the early 1930s. An out-of-work hoursepainter with a bug up his ass, and a lot of economically affected people - remember?

[JuniperLea]

69. Ok, you just gave me chills head to toe...

You speak the truth. Wow.

Funny that "A Nation of Sheep" was the first thing I thought of when the idea of study in this area came to mind:) I'm pretty sure I quoted it here a few years back when talking of Bush's backwash 23%...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

73. We're on the same wavelength,

because your post just gave me chills. That title flashed through my mind immediately, and I went looking for it. I should have known you'd know it.

:)

Might be time to find my copy - I wonder if I still have it? - and re-read it.

You, JL, give me hope. Thanks .....................

[JuniperLea]

88. Back atcha, TLB...

I have four large bookcases, and many, many boxes of books in the garage... it's aroud somewhere! LOL!

I can't seem to let go of a book. It's a sickness!

[Tangerine LaBamba]

91. When I started grad school,

I realized I no longer had time or energy for "other" reading, and that meant mostly fiction.

So I began a pile of books I'd read once I graduated.

It became a shelf.

Then shelves.

Then it became a room of bookshelves.

Now it is several rooms of bookshelves.

As I read them, they get piled up and sent to the local library.

But, being under contract to a publisher means you get free books. I call or email my publisher's assistant, and whatever I want is FedExed to me. It's much like free heroin to a smack addict.

For older books, I have alibris.com, a place I worship.

It's not a sickness, my dear. It's a blessing.

BUT, if you get rid of some old books, there's room for NEW books!!!!

Check out alibris. A truly wonderful place...................

[JuniperLea]

97. Why am I not surprised?

I just bought some August Derleth stuff for my boss on Alibris:)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

100. Bingo and chills........

Whoa....................... :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

145. August Derleth?

The Jar Jar fucking Binks of the Lovecraft circle?

[redqueen]

59. Did the creator of Popeye come out with anything similar to Objectivism?

I think Rand brought the criticism onto herself with Objectivism, not simply her novels.

[JuniperLea]

65. It's fiction...

Taking it seriously is probably dangerous.

[redqueen]

67. I thought she put Objectivism out there as a serious philosophy.

I guess I'm mistaken on that.

:shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Yes, and your point is?

It has been seriously deconstructed by Derrida and Foucalt if that helps...

But her fiction is separate from her collected philosophy, just like Karl Sagan's fiction is separate from the Annals of Astronomy.

Jessus freaking age, Atlas Shrugged, can't believe I find myself defending this, IS A PIECE OF DYSTOPIC FICTION... just like oh 1984.

[redqueen]

76. Calm down... we're now off of the topic of her fictional works.

The comment I was addressing was concerning this "visceral hatred toward Rand"... *not* any of her works.

Jesus.

[JuniperLea]

72. She may have... many authors in fiction do that...

It's like when you say something mean to someone in a way that it can be construed as a joke, but you're really not joking;)

Many authors run things up the flagpole in fiction. It's still a work of fiction. I know several people who live and breathe by The Celestine Prophecy, claiming it is chock full of truths. It's fiction... aka it's made up. It strikes some people so close to home, they don't even consider the fact it is pure fiction.

Edited because I caint spel gud on fridees apairuntly.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

74. Consider this:

people read their horoscopes in newspapers every day and nod.......................

[JuniperLea]

78. Bingo!

If you look for it, you will find it. Believe it and you will see it. Seek and ye shall find! No wonder Wayne Dyer has made millions stating simple facts in a woo woo way! He's absolutely right. The woo woo is for fun and profit, no doubt.

Perspective is absolutely everything, and perspective is unique to each individual, and each individual dictates their own perspective.

Agin... i caint spel tuday!

[Tangerine LaBamba]

82. It takes balls to say

"I don't know," and then set out to find out.

It takes balls to ask questions of those who might know, and then work to form your own opinions.

It takes balls to stand in front of the babbling crowd of ignoramuses and tell them to piss off, they know nothing.

But, there's no other way, really, for some of us.................................................

(It's Friday - spelling is optional, as are pants..........)

[JuniperLea]

90. Woohoo! Pants opitional!

I just love that "loose" feeling!

:rofl:

The most brilliant people are the first to admit they don't know it all. But they know how to dig and scratch and read and ask until they find the answer.

You aren't by chance of the Irish clan Dugan, are you? Because I swear my grandpa Dugan raised us both! :rofl:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

94. My Sardinian grandfather

raised me to believe that the Irish were that people we civilized and who were never grateful.

I brought home Eddie Dougherty as my first serious boyfriend.

THAT was interesting.

But I suspect our grandpops would have been great drinking buddies, don't you think?

Can you imagine?

[JuniperLea]

99. I can imagine YOU being MY drinking buddy!

[Tangerine LaBamba]

103. For those, we'll need hats -

Very Silly Hats, indeed.

And lithe young men, well-oiled, to bring them to us.

I hear palm trees rustling in the background, and our dirty laughs mumbling low.

Yeah, that works...........................

[JuniperLea]

114. I demand to be fanned...

They must bring large fans along with the drinks.



And more oil... yeah...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

119. Of course,

we'll have to have them hosed off before they're brought to our tents.......................

[JuniperLea]

124. Literally loling here!

With that, I must bid you adieu... time to turn off the computer and live IRL for the weekend... though this little fantasy will no doubt be revisited as my mind travels with me IRL:)

Ciao, my friend! Always a pleasure to chat:)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

126. Same here -

Nixon-Frost beckon.

Always a pleasure, indeed. Travel safe and happy....................... :)

[redqueen]

77. Well then that, to me, explains the 'visceral hatred'. YMMV.

As for works, we're no longer discussing them. You brought up the topic of the visceral hatred toward her... I'm pointing out that that's probably not due to her fictional works.

[JuniperLea]

81. What did she ever have other than fictional works?

:shrug:

[redqueen]

83. Um.... Objectivism?

You know... her philosophy?

:wtf:

[JuniperLea]

95. Her philosophy!

Did you ever notice how it's part metaphysics, and part selfish libertarian screed?

I'm totally open to the metaphysics bit. We don't know enough science to dispute a lot of that, and chance are that someday we will find the science to show it's part of nature. The selfish me first, I'm here solely for the pursuit of my own happiness deal is hogwash, imho.

To me, that doesn't detract from her novels. Much like Knut Hamsun's support of some of Hitler's ideas doesn't distract from my love of his novels... even his semi-autobiographical novels. Much like my favorite guitarist, who happens to be a total RWer... that doesn't distract from my love of the most killer guitar riff ever known to humankind. Much like my love of Wagner, and Orff... I don't care that Hitler got off on their work. I'm an individual. I try not to go with the flow if I can help it at all. I don't think it's healthy in the least.

[redqueen]

101. Yes but you brought up the hatred for her, personally...

not for her books.

Though I see how the OP was more an example of disliking the books by extension... or perhaps they just didn't like the writing style, I dunno...

Anyway... my point was simply re: people's hatred for her, as a person. I can't help but think it's due to her philosophy and in particular its tenets as they pertain to politics.

[JuniperLea]

118. If she were GWB and had actually caused harm politically...

I might join in. I think people take her all too seriously. And I tend not to associate art with the artist.

[JuniperLea]

122. I guess I just don't get that...

The only person I can say I actually hate, in all of the world, would be GWB... oh hell, yes, and Cheney. I don't see a philosophy, which is pure opinion, to be worthy of my angst. And I don't ever associate art with the artist. Chihuly is a one-eyed monster of a man to work for, but damn I love his work! Carl Orff served Hitler, and Knut Hamsun supported some of his ideas, but I will always love their works in music and literature. As much as I despise some of the ideals they held up, I can't see myself hating them with such vigor.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

102. So -

you're a Ted Nugent fan?

Interesting.

OK, that's a joke.

Although - and this is strange - I've had parts of "Carmina Burana" buzzing through my head today. I thought it was maybe too many times watching "The Omen" movies.........................

[JuniperLea]

107. Haha! Nuge is always the guess...

But no, and I can't mention the name because he knows me. We were on the outs for a while, but I'm hoping that will change. His wife hates me because I treat him like a human being instead of a rock god... LOL!!! She hated when we used to argue politics... he and I loved it and things would have been cool... long story short, his message board was shut down after his wife started a hate thread about me... complaining that I didn't show him respect! LOL!!!

O Fortuna is on my short list of all time favorite tunes! I've coined the term "Doom Opera" with Carmina Burana in mind, among other very, very heavy classical works. I can bang head to the classics as well as to the metal!

O Fortuna
velut luna... like the moon
statu variabilis,... you are changeable,
semper crescis... ever waxing
aut decrescis;... and waning;
vita detestabilis... hateful life
nunc obdurat... first oppresses
et tunc curat... and then soothes
ludo mentis aciem,... as fancy takes it;
egestatem,... poverty
potestatem... and power
dissolvit ut glaciem... it melts them like ice.

Sors immanis... Fate - monstrous
et inanis,... and empty,
rota tu volubilis,... you whirling wheel,
status malus,... you are malevolent,
vana salus... well-being is vain
semper dissolubilis,... and always fades to nothing,
obumbrata... shadowed
et velata... and veiled
michi quoque niteris;... you plague me too;
nunc per ludum... now through the game
dorsum nudum... I bring my bare back
fero tui sceleris... to your villainy.

Sors salutis... Fate is against me
et virtutis... in health
michi nunc contraria,... and virtue,
est affectus... driven on
et defectus... and weighted down,
semper in angaria... always enslaved.
Hac in hora... So at this hour
sine mora... without delay
corde pulsum tangite;... pluck the vibrating strings;
quod per sortem... since Fate
sternit fortem,... strikes down the string man,
mecum omnes plangite!... everyone weep with me!

[Tangerine LaBamba]

110. Look at this:

"dorsum nudum... I bring my bare back
"fero tui sceleris... to your villainy."

There's a line. I mean, there is a LINE! Jesus, the power in those words, and with the music, yeah, it's Doom Opera, all right, but what opera worth anything isn't Doom Opera? And the horse always dies. Always.

Rock god wives are complicated sorts. My own kid is one of them, quite the Little Protector, so I no longer tell her that his music makes my hair hurt. We just go on.

Touchy, touchy people, huh?

[JuniperLea]

115. I had to listen... we talked about it too much! hahaha!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvD0Vr-jt7Q

[Tangerine LaBamba]

125. Talk about timing!!!

I clicked on this, and then, on the TV nearby, the Maryland Public Television station announced that NEXT UP is the two hour film of the ORIGINAL Frost-Nixon interviews!!!

Which is exactly why I have that channel on.

And this music? With that on the TV right now?

I dasn't.............

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Or, as predictive in some ways as they have become

because they were a criticism of autocratic systems... 1984

[Umbral]

117. Sorta like L. Ron Hubbard was just a Science Fiction writer and never intended anything beyond that?

[nadinbrzezinski]

131. What he did late in his life has little to do wiht his earlier works

there are only three novels that can be tied to that... his early work, and his early short stories have precious little to do with that.

But I am proof positive you knew that

And as a practitioner of Sci Fi I appreciate L. Ron Hubbard.

For crying out loud by the way, some of our greatest figures in the field, can you say Heinlein? Were libertarian as well, or what about Orson Scott Card? Confirmed Right Winger... Ender's is still a classic.

[LAGC]

142. Orson Scott Card was a lapsed Mormon when he wrote that...

Ever since he got sucked back into the church, his writing has deteriorated accordingly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

157. That is besides the point... I can separate the ART from the ARTIST

and that is the point.

[Book Lover]

53. You mean the cover art or the whole front cover?

And frankly, "Atlas Shrugged" is one of the top sellers Signet-Penguin has in the backlist, and a required text in many a classroom. Why not promote it?

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

113. My cousin did the same thing,

except it was _Harry Potter_; oh, and she didn't buy _Lies and the Lying Liars_. She wouldn't give her money to a store that celebrated _Harry Potter_.

[NNadir]

116. Actually B&N has always been something of a right wing hell hole.

I try to avoid buying books there.

[Dreamer Tatum]

120. Sorry to burst the indignance bubble

but Atlas Shrugged is indeed a literary classic, and has its place alongside Of Mice and Men, Light in August, and so forth.

If we're going to start denigrating classics based on an ethos, then you should be prepared for Lolita to lose a great deal of esteem.

If we're going to attack classics based on poor plotting, time inconsistencies, and occasional bad prose, then you should be prepared for stones to be cast at The Great Gatsby.

Each of those books has its proponents as the greatest work of fiction ever written. Atlas Shrugged is no Madame Bovary, but it's a bona fide classic.

[mix]

132. No, it's not.

Atlas Shrugged is a cult hit at best. I would reckon it is hardly taught due to its bad writing and horrid ideas. It's an oddity and artifact at best, a sign of sick society.

[Dreamer Tatum]

133. Yes, it is

In 50 years, tell me how many literature courses will be studying Jodi Picoult novels.

Sorry you disagree. The fact that we're discussing this now should be some indication of the influence of the book.

[mix]

135. Show me where this book is taught and by whom and for what reasons...

...except among its small circle of fans, AS is a freakish artifact of a soulless philosophy. It has no standing within academe.

[Dreamer Tatum]

136. This is an idiotic and fruitless discussion

You can buy a copy of the goddamned fucking book in any bookstore in the country. It's a culturally significant book. These are established facts. You can deal with them or not; they're facts nevertheless.

[mix]

137. Culturally significant is different from "classic"...Mein Kampf

is "culturally significant" too.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

127. Of Mice and Men? Yikes.

I can't stand Steinbeck and his stance on pogroms against the mentally handicapped.

[Dreamer Tatum]

134. Cough cough

It's pretty clear the filter one has to pass through here before their works of sheer, bloodcurdling virtuosity are admitted tolive above the plane of Sue Grafton.

That's a real shame. Steinbeck doesn't need me to defend his work...that's precisely the beauty of it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

140. Just so you know,

this DUer happens to agree completely with you. You're pushing water uphill with some folks who don't really know what they're talking about.

I'd bet money that AynRand's writing has never been part of their ::: cough, cough ::: portfolio, but, she's up there and she'll always be up there............................

[Dreamer Tatum]

154. I have a saying that applies here

If you want lots of hits on your website, hire a good SEO person and have a great content on your page.

BUT

If you want UNLIMITED hits on your website, just put 'Ayn Rand' in your keywords.


Ayn Rand brings out the internet longhairs like nothing else. It's just a shame when one's politics stand square in the way of appraising a work on fiction on its own merits.

I think people here actually think truck driving, gun toting Republihicks sit and read Ayn Rand. No. Those people read Juggs.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

143. You know, the unspoken irony here...

is that despite his views on Rand and her philosophies, the OP fancies himself as some sort of elitist and wishes to divorce himself from "the majority."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

130. Ayn Rand was to writing and political philosophy what Bush was to elocution and pretzel eating.

[DailyGrind51]

139. "Atlas" needed a bailout, then gave himself a fat bonus!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

146. I painted a mural in honor of the Republican party

I fingerpainted my creation onto the wall of the restroom stall in a local bar, when I noticed there was no toilet paper left.

[Odin2005]

147. I tried reading it in high school, bored me to tears...

...when I wasn't gagging at the selfish BS and misogyny.

[riderinthestorm]

149. I'd guess it's about money. Their designer shopped it, the marketing reps looked it over,

they ran it past a few women's book club groups, and voila! You have your design.

Atlas Shrugged is perceived of as a "classic". Hate it. But there it is. B and N could care less about anything else but profits.

Fuhgeddabut your "local bookstore" ethos - B and N is a corporate entity. Atlas Shrugs sells as per marketing design plus actual sales.

They could give a shit about politics or placement based on anything but marketability. It's all about driving sales.

[LLStarks]

152. There's a "Have you read Atlas Shrugged?" banner hanging off an overpass on the Long Island Expway.

I hate it.

[johnaries]

153. You know, one of my favorite Fantasy series of all times

"The Sword of Truth" by Terry Goodkind had one book that was so reminescent of Atlas Shrugged that I almost stopped reading it. But most of the book was still pretty good, and the other 9 books in the series were so excellent I'm glad I continued it. Well, except for the last half of the final book. which he just "rushed through" and was such an anti-climax to such a great series.