Rights groups: Venezuela punishing protesters

[cali]

By CHRISTOPHER TOOTHAKER (AP) – 1 day ago

CARACAS, Venezuela — Venezuelan rights activists said Wednesday that President Hugo Chavez's government is using the courts to stifle protests.

Marino Alvarado of Provea, a prominent rights group, said more than 2,200 people, including dozens of labor union representatives, have been indicted on criminal charges stemming from their participation in protests over the last four years.

<snip>

Espacio Publico and Cofavic — two other leading rights watchdogs — also signed the document that urges prosecutors to stop bringing charges against protesters.

Most have been charged with misdemeanors, Alvarado said. But some have been prohibited from joining future demonstrations and barred from leaving their hometowns or publicly discussing their cases. Others face possible prison sentences. Fourteen employees who demonstrated for better working conditions at Sidor, the country's largest steel maker, are currently on trial and could be sentenced to as many as 10 years in prison for protesting within one of the plant's "security zones."

Juan Valor, one of the Sidor workers, said the trial could set an ominous precedent. "If the judge rules that we are guilty, union leaders throughout the country could be jailed for organizing protests," Valor, a 49-year-old machinery operator and former union representative at Sidor, speaking by telephone.

<snip>

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iRoYGueXXNOJ2_osC7DUp9lyOKzAD99OA8881

OK, for the record, I don't think Chavez is a dictator. Clearly he's not. I do think he's not the icon of liberty or some great and exalted champion of the people. He's a politician. He's done some good things for the poor and working class in Venezuela. He's also done some things I think are troubling, and the attempts to stifle opposition are amoung them.

It's easy to predict the responses by those here who, no offense intended, idolize Chavez: Provea is a front for capitalist pigs and outside agitaters. These aren't really human rights organizations. The Union leaders cited in this article are really plants. The MSM is lying. etc, etc.

[madokie]

1. I'm not so sure that you or anyone else here including myself have a lock

on the truth coming out of Venezuela. I say it is none of our business when it comes right down to it, but thats just my thinking. I worry about what is going on in my own country and when I say my own I mean I have fought for this country which gives me the right to say this. I put my ass in getting it done and not just words for others to read. :hi:

[cali]

2. well, it's certainly none of our business as far as intervention of any kind goes,

but as far as discussion goes, I think it's clearly a fair topic. And admittedly, I'm plain old fascinated by the haters/lovers of Chavez here at DU.

[madokie]

3. Which begs the question

Which are you, a lover or a hater?

for the record I'm fascinated by the very same thing as you state too.

[cali]

5. Neither. I believe that Chavez' has instituted reforms in Venezuela

that have aided the poor and working class. I also think that he's a politician intent on holding on to power. Personality wise, his style doesn't appeal to me. Too much demagogery, too much bombast. Still, he's much, much preferable than the Uribe type.

[madokie]

6. Well at least we're pretty much in agreement on this

Back in the bushco days if given a chance I would have traded Hugo for dick or w any day but not now.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. Do you say the same thing about Honduras?

[madokie]

13. Pretty much

We do not have an unbiased M$M so pretty much what we know from reading or listening to them is to be taken with a grain of salt.

[MADem]

4. I think he's a despot in training. I think he buys votes with days off and

cheap cell phones, but he does nothing for the infrastructure. He's nuts.

This isn't the first time he's kicked the living shit out of people who don't toe his line. But hey, if you're pro-Chavez, in this instance, you're willing to be anti-union. Talk about cognitive dissonance!

You forgot the other objection: The Associated Press is evil!!! They hate Saint Hugo!!!


http://www.latribuna.hn/web2.0/?p=24617

[Peace Patriot]

7. "...troubling..."--ah! So where's your post on the over 1000 political prisoners in Honduras,

the tortured, dead activists, bodies thrown in a field for all to see and know the price of protesting the rightwing coup? Where is your post expressing concern for the "troubling" disappearances of community activists in Honduras, the priests and other advocates of the poor who have had to go into hiding, the shutdown of the media, troops surrounding TV stations, draconian curfews, Zelaya supporters' buses getting their tires shot out, leftist politicians being dragged from protest busses and killed, the president of the country getting his home shot up by the military and getting dragged out of his bed at gunpoint and flown to another country in a plane with blackened windows? What are your "troubled" thoughts about the teacher who lay dying in a hospital in Honduras, right now, for daring to participate in a pro-Zelaya protest?

Did I miss your post on this?

----------------

I guess this is the latest rightwing "talking point"--since "Chavez" is demonstrably, provably NOT a "dictator"--that every negative thing that happens in Venezuela is his fault and, gee, isn't this, that or the other thing--whatever the Associated Pukes can dig up--"troubling"?

And, hey, did you find Seattle '99 "troubling"? The protest "cages" at the DNC '04? The pre-emptive arrests and home invasions and brutality of the RNC '08? Pot calling the kettle black, when a US citizen focuses exclusively on the "troubling" aspects of another country's democracy, always Venezuela, always Chavez.

So, why don't you give us a rundown on the "troubling" aspects of the Patriot Act, or, say, the torture and indefinite detention without trial of random people in Afghanistan and Iraq, spirited half way round the world in shackles with bags on their heads, and thrown into an off-shore prison or into some torture dungeon in Eastern Europe.

In truth, our own country is little better than the junta in Honduras. Has Obama restored our Constitution yet? Disavowed the Patriot Act? Eschewed "executive signing statements"? Ended the secrecy and the spying? Apologized for our slaughtering a hundred thousand people in one week of bombing alone, to steal their oil? Compensated the survivors of Abu Ghraib--the raped women and children? Those gone mad? The families of the dead? Has he prosecuted Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove? Has he freed Don Seigelman?

But no...Venezuela, Venezuela, Chavez, Chavez...so very "troubling."

[Peace Patriot]

8. Here are some photos of the bloody repression in Honduras.

How about a post on this? Maybe some discussion of who is paying for this repression? (Hint: you and me.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x467967

[cali]

9. not to point out the obvious or anything, but your attempt to divert from the OP topic

is, well, obvious, dear. and lame. Not that it has jack shit to do with the OP, but sorry, I have indeed posted on Honduras and the travesty of the coup against Zelaya. And if you could actually read for comprehension, you'd note that I said quite clearly that Chavez is not a dictator. duh. try again with your pathetic syncophancy and try it on someone who'll fall for your absurd slobbering adoration. Unlike you, I don't see things in simplistic black and white.

your post is typically pathetic and a desperate attempt to stave off any criticism of your hero. Sorry, I don't entertain illusions like you do. Not about the U.S. and not about Venezuela and Chavez.

Oh yeah, and do come up with something a tad more original than the crap about how anyone who disagrees with holy little you, is spouting right wing rhetoric.

Have a great day, honey!

[Peace Patriot]

15. The media psyops war against Chavez drives me to question posts like this one.

I think the relentless propaganda campaign against Chavez is prep for a new oil war. His every flaw is hugely exaggerated, and every flaw in Venezuela's government, society and democracy is blown out of proportion, and blamed on this one leader, while--unlike you, above--his achievements, and those of the Venezuelan people, are completely ignored. Your post seems in line with this propaganda campaign, despite your caveat. While you say that Chavez is not a dictator, yet you say, hey, look at this evidence that Chavez is a dictator. The corpo/fascist 'news' monopoly "talking point" is thus cleverly reinforced.

Chavez has not harmed anyone, while leftists are dying, their blood splattered all over the street, at the hands of this rightwing coup in Honduras. Thousands of union leaders have been slaughtered in Colombia. Yet what do you post about? A relatively minor, possible injustice in Venezuela--relative to being shot in the head for participating in a peaceful protest, as is happening right now in Honduras, or chainsawed while alive and your body parts thrown into a mass grave, as one form of death that has happened to union leaders in Colombia--both US allies.

Also, if you are going to blame Chavez for everything bad that happens in Venezuela, how about criticizing Obama for not rescinding the Patriot Act, or for the USAF "drones" killing more civilians in Afghanistan every week? And what about the five new US military bases in Colombia, at US taxpayer expense, and $6 BILLION in military aid to Colombia--a country with one of the worst human rights records on earth? Are these things not wrong? Are these things not more wrong than what may be an unfair prosecution of protesters in Venezuela (but may also be an effort of the government to punish thugs parading as protesters)? (We don't really know the whole story of these prosecutions.) IF union leaders are being persecuted in Venezuela, I would be against it--strongly against it. But I have no reason to trust AP--none! And I know enough about so-called "human rights" groups funded by the CIA to be wary about yet another plank in the anti-Chavez psyops campaign, in yet another Associated Pukes 'news' article, and this OP does raise the question in my mind, are you deliberately trumpeting this at DU as a contribution to this campaign, and feigning being "troubled" about it, or are you sincere? Where are your posts about the murders in Honduras? Others are posting about it. Why not you? It seems just a little convenient that the murderous junta in Honduras blames Chavez for their crimes (in the mind-twisted manner of fascist projection), and a spokesmen for the US State Department, just the other day, said, in effect, "Let this be a lesson to Zelaya about allying with Chavez and Venezuelan socialism!"--and here you are, with the meme that workers and protesters are being oppressed in Venezuela.

I don't worship Chavez. I defend him because I see another oil war being planned, and because, on the facts--which I have taken the trouble to study--he does not deserve the relentless vilification that we see about him in our corpo/fascist media. Is he flawed? Yes. Is Venezuelan democracy flawed? Yes. So frigging what? My God, don't we have enough to do to STOP the funding of a bloody junta in Honduras, and the funding of mass murderers in Colombia, and to repair our own exceedingly flawed democracy? This OP seems like just another diversion from our immediate responsibilities as citizens of the US, whose government has been torturing and killing all around the world, and is using our money to fund the very worst governments in Latin America--to arm them against their own people.

This particular diversion--the psyops campaign against Chavez--has a purpose. It is neither informative nor benign. It is a planned propaganda campaign. Its purpose is war. I can smell it. And I fear for our country--and, indeed, for the Obama administration (for all its flaws!)--if the Bushwhacks inside and outside of this government succeed in dragging us into an oil war in this hemisphere, and I fear--most of all--for the Latin Americans with all that "sitting duck" oil who may be its victims.

This is what troubles me--us, who we are, what we have become--supporting fascists around the world, fascists in Saudi Arabia, fascists in the UAE, fascists in Israel, fascists in Spain, fascists in Italy, fascists in Great Britain, and every remaining fascist regime in Latin America. We support the bad guys. We supported Osama bin Laden! We frigging created Al Qaeda! Where on this earth does our government support democracy? It doesn't even support it here--and takes great pains to deny the will of the people here, even to the corporate-owned 'TRADE SECRET' code that now infests our vote counting system.

Let Venezuela alone, for godssakes! Leave them alone. They have a good voting system--one of the best. They can work things out for themselves. There are far worse injustices, being done in our name, with our money, that we need to attend to, than have occurred in Chavez's entire tenure in Venezuela. And not one of the wrongs that he has been accused of has turned out to have any substance to it, that I can see. I see a normal democracy in Venezuela, with normal tensions and power struggles, and a country that remains remarkably peaceful and democratic despite every effort of our government and corporations to destabilize it! We should withdraw all of our US taxpayer funded undercover operatives, and stop this bullshit about "Chavez the dictator," and tend to our own business. If unfair prosecutions "trouble" you, you should become a Guantanamo Bay or Don Siegelman activist. Any injustice that I have seen alleged against the Chavez government is nothing compared to the injustice of our own government, and the injustice of our "friends and allies"--as Donald Rumsfeld calls them (WaPo, 12/1/07)--in Latin America.

[Odin2005]

10. Authoritarianism ain't just a right-wing disease.

[EFerrari]

11. How is this different than what we have here? Maybe we should get

Provea to help us out, too, to avoid another travesty like the one at the St. Paul RNC protest where journalists where manhandled and arrested for covering the marches.

[bvar22]

14. I really need more details.

2200 protesters arrested over a 4 year period.
Most charged with misdemeanors.

Were they engaged in Civil Disobedience?
If so, arrest and charged with a misdemeanor sounds like good democracy.

"More than 750 protests were staged during the first four months of 2009, compared to 1,600 for all of 2008, according to Espacio Publico." (quote from same article)
Sounds like protesting is alive and well in Venezuela!

The problem with the Union Organizers is troubling, but again, more details are needed. I noticed that the article said they "could" be jailed if found guilty by a judge....NOT that Union Organizers "HAVE" been jailed. Anyone "could" be jailed when arrested...that is what the "trial" part is about.

The article also stated that they were charged with "protesting within one of the plant's "security zones.". Again, more details are needed. If they ignored plant safety regulations, this could be proper. The article did NOT say they were arrested for organizing Labor Unions.

Arrest and trials (public?) certainly represents a huge step forward from Venezuela's past government, and current government of neighboring Colombia where Union Organizers are shot.

[Peace Patriot]

16. Thank you for this comment. A few union leaders are prosecuted in Venezuela

--given a trial where they can defend themselves, and have a chance to prove the injustice of the charges, if they are unjust. Compare and contrast with Colombia, where union leaders are routinely murdered--thousands of them, and also subjected to the most horrible tortures and repression.

Who gets $6 BILLION in military aid? Who gets five more US military bases? Whose rich, narco-fascist elite gets fawned over and given medals in the White House, and rewarded for their filthy murders and corruption with planned "free trade"?

Who gets vilified in the media--the country that provides the accused with trials and the ability to defend themselves--or the country where union leaders--as you say--are shot?

And which government has helped workers, advocated for workers, provided higher wages, medical care and education for workers and their families? Which government provides grants and loans for worker co-ops? Which government has tried to shorten the work week and tried to provide pensions for street vendors (half the work force in the country)--and was prevented from doing so, in a very close vote, by a US-funded fascist political campaign? Which government cares about workers, at all--Venezuela or Colombia? The US-vilified regime, or the US-fawned over regime?

This OP is skewed, distorted, off-center. It has no perspective. A photo of a pit full of body parts of union leaders in Colombia is the perspective I'm looking for. Or a photo of the dead, mutilated body of the Zelaya activist thrown in a field, or the one who was shot in the head today in the capitol, or the teacher who lay dying for daring to protest the junta. Zelaya raised the minimum wage, and he gets thrown out of his own country at gunpoint. But, hey, some prosecutor in Venezuela charges a few union members with dangerous behavior, and what gets posted?

It's not that an injustice in Venezuela--if it is occurring--is okay or excusable. It's that the din of criticism of the Chavez government--which has done so much for the people of Venezuela, in particular for the workers--is not only intended to demonize Chavez, and, in my opinion, to prep for another oil war, but it is also used to drown out our peoples' consciousness of these vastly worse governments whose horrible actions are being paid for by us.

That's why I questioned this OP. There are a couple of other posters, in the Latin American forum, doing something similar--dredging up whatever they can find to dis Chavez and Venezuela, to try to drown out the news from Honduras--people being killed by US-funded fascists!

[bvar22]

18. Thought I would post this for some healthy perspective:

A group of retirees who refused to leave Sen. Dianne Feinstein's West Los Angeles office until she talked to them about health care reform has been arrested.

Los Angeles police Sergeant Rich Brunson said Thursday that at least eight people were being taken into custody and would likely be booked for trespassing (a misdemeanor).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6189811

Yet if protesters are arrested in Venezuela, all of a sudden, Chavez is an undemocratic authoritarian.

Venezuela belongs to the Venezuelans.
Chavez enjoys overwhelming popularity in Venezuela (and South America).
It is none of our business.

The US is missing a huge opportunity in South America by maintaining a hostile relationship with the emerging democracies in South America.
OUR hostile posture is driving them and their markets straight into the hands of Russia and China.

We should have long ago cast aside the right wing oligarchs in Colombia and put our full diplomatic and economic support behind the Populist governments.
NOW, we are stuck with a failing right wing government in Colombia, and closed door across almost the entire continent.

Stupid.

[Truth Talks]

17. Viva Chavez!

If George W. Bush, Obama and the right-wing media hate him so much, he must be doing something right. Go Chavez!