Is there a list of all the things in this country that are ALREADY socialized?

[Curtland1015]

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these, and please add whatever I'm missing.

All I've got so far...

*Education (basic education anyways...)
*Fire Departments
*Police Departments
*Postal Service
*Health care for public servants
*Medication for veterans

I don't ever hear about Repigs bemoaning the communist state this country has become since we got government sponsored fire fighting service...

[havocmom]

1. Interstate highway system, most other roads, most water and sewer systems

the defense of the country

for starters

[TexasObserver]

52. Yes, and the highways were advanced significantly under IKE!

That damned socialist president!

I wish Ike could reappear for about a month now, and appear on talk shows discussing the military-industrial complex, the seedy influence of their money, and the need to avoid sending military on Chamber of Commerce missions.

[gmoney]

2. power companies SHOULD be

so we don't get a repeat of Enron...

[texastoast]

3. However

It wasn't until we got dereg that I was able to get 100% wind power energy.

[KansDem]

4. National Park System...(nt)

[dmr]

79. National Weather Service n/t

[PA Democrat]

5. Bad investments by the Wall Street banksters.

[TexasObserver]

6. *Military *Health care for Military *Health Care for Congress

[MercutioATC]

12. Health care for Congress isn't socialized.

FEHBP is an employer-provided benefit that uses private insurance companies...

...just like any other employer-provided health insurance plan.

[TexasObserver]

15. Sure it is. They get free medical by the government.

[MercutioATC]

23. No, they don't. They have the same plan that ALL federal employees do.

http://www.opm.gov/INSURE/HEALTH/

[TexasObserver]

24. Government workers getting government paid health care.

Sounds like socialism for government workers.

But if you need to pretend you're not getting medical care by having the government pay for it, go ahead and please yourself.

Too bad those in government choose to make the government pay for their health care, while everyone else is on their own. It's hypocrisy at its worst.

[MercutioATC]

25. The government pays 2/3 of the premium...for ALL federal employees (including Congressmen).

It's NOT "free" by any definition.

[Cid_B]

26. We're all just evil moochers...

By that logic my military pay is just mooching too because the govt signs my paycheck.

It's a benefit like any other job. What pretentious BS.

[TexasObserver]

27. You get what every American should get when it comes to health care.

THAT is the point. There is absolutely no good reason government workers should have better health care than most Americans.

[Cid_B]

28. Aside from the fact that we have a JOB....

Benefits and wages for work performed....

[TexasObserver]

29. No, you shouldn't get better health care than any American.

Job or no job.

You still don't get it. You work for US. You shouldn't get better health care than any American.

Tying health care to work is a disaster.

You don't earn your health care. It's a gift.

[Cid_B]

30. Logic is your friend...

Just to make sure I understand...

I signed a contract with the US govt. I agreed to provide labor and time and in return they would give me money and benefits to include health coverage and educational benefits.

So I earned the money but they just gave me health coverage cause they are such nice guys.


I'm glad you think that you are "owed" so much by someone else. Let me know how that works out for you.

[TexasObserver]

31. You're just a guy in the military getting free medical.

Stop patting yourself on the back. Many of us have been in the military, including me. It's a GIFT. You don't earn it. You get it because it's in the interest of the government.

The needs of the military come first. Ever hear that?

You still miss the point entirely. You don't earn your health care. You're given your health care, and all taxpaying Americans pay for it. I pay for your health care. And I pay for my health care.

When you grow up, get out of the military, and get a real job, you'll understand better.

[Cid_B]

35. Fine then...

What is the difference between my pay check and my health benefits?

Is the pay check a gift out of the goodness of the govt's heart? If you say they have to pay me or no one would show up then again what is the difference?

Is everyone in the military just a freeloading moocher and if not where is the line? Base pay? OHA? COLA? Tricare?

You didn't earn your paycheck apparantly. It was just a gift from your employer.

[TexasObserver]

36. You still have the delusion that you "earn" your health care. You don't.

I'm going to take a few moments here to explain the progressive position on health care.

It's a right. It's not something you earn by being in the military, or being in congress, or sorting mail, or collecting money for the IRS, or working in a National Park, or beating prisoners senseless in Gitmo, or serving on the Supreme Court, or working for the Corps of Engineers.

Anyone who has all or most of their health care paid by the government is getting something that most Americans are not getting, and they're getting it at government expense.

Your logic is so upside down on this topic you don't even see that you're being an advocate for the corporatists, the rightwingers, and the health care industry robber barons. They all love having health care be an issue that causes massive distinctions among Americans. Like you, they love to present the issue as one of merit - that those who deserve health care get it, and those who don't deserve it don't get it.

The military doesn't give you health care to get you to sign a contract. They give you health care because THEY have money invested in you, and THEY want you healthy to do their bidding. You can't tell me you've never had a superior tell you "boy, you belong to Uncle Sam, and if you hurt your body, you're hurting Uncle Sam's property."

Stop patting yourself on the back. You're in military and our government gives you free medical because it has money invested in you. Wait until you're a veteran, and see what you get.

[Cid_B]

38. Any time you feel like answering my previous questions..

feel free as opposed to going off on your own rant.

Why are my health benefits a gift but I earn my pay? Which parts of the pay( Base, OHA, COLA etc.. etc..) and benefits (Travel, Education and Health) are freebies and which ones have I earned? Is anyone who WORKS for the government just a moocher ?

Also, I have seen poor VA benefits and excellent ones as well.

[TexasObserver]

45. I did. If you don't understand the answer, that's your problem.

Eventually you'll grow up and understand. If not, you'll stay in your state of ignorance and denial.

[Cid_B]

46. So I'll take that as a no...

Rambling about whatever you feel like while avoiding a direct question doesn't count...

P.S. I can imagine what kind of Soldier you were with that sunshine attitude of yours. Bet you had a grand 'ol time didn't you.

[annabanana]

63. healthcare is a basic human right... It comes under "Life" in Life, Liberty

and Pursuit of Happiness". .

[TexasObserver]

81. You're right. It's not something that should have to be earned.

The whole notion that employment and health care should be tied together is insidious and anti progressive. It's yet another way the very wealthy pit workers against one another and against the unemployed or unemployable.

[havocmom]

55. Federal employees doe not get government paid health care! They get insurance

And they pay part of it. Only real difference with other group policies that employers contribute to and government employee group insurance is that pre-existing conditions are covered.

We pay several hundred $$ per month, 20% of covered care, IF we go through plan doctors, clinics, labs, otherwise we pay much more out of pocket. There are annual limits on benefits. Our coverage varies depending on what state we live in or get sick/injured in. LOTS of variables. No free care.

Where do you get the stubborn notion that government workers get government paid healthcare? Too much RW radio? You know not of which you speak. But you are damned stubborn about it.

[rateyes]

7. Uh,

Social Security & Medicare & Medicaid.

[valerief]

8. Corporate Welfare! nt

[rateyes]

9. Federal Emergency Management.

Flood Insurance.

[rateyes]

10. The military.

[TexasObserver]

48. True. The military is completely socialist.

They get cradle to the grave care from the government.

Soldiers who go into the military out of high school and retire from military often have a shock when they get out and find out that the government isn't there to take care of their every need any more.

[FLDCVADem]

51. You must have been in a different military

than I was. We certainly didn't have every single need met by the government. Yes, we had health care (earned, regardless of what you claim up-thread), and pay and allowances. But the government certainly wasn't there holding my hand for 20 years.

[TexasObserver]

53. No, just paid attention.

I'm not surprised you defend your decision.

[FLDCVADem]

57. What are you talking about?

Defend what decision?

[iverglas]

65. and the real point about the military is

It is a public service (the common defence) organized and paid for by the public collectively, not by individual members of the public.

That is what is "socialized" about it. yeesh.

[redqueen]

11. Libraries

[JanMichael]

13. Local government I.e. municipalities and counties.

And the military.

[Puzzler]

14. You can start with the military...

... that's right the whole armed forces (and I'm not talking about their medical plans)

Used to be, governments/kings only kept small standing armies, and during times of war, soldiers were hired... mercenary-style. That's one of the reasons the 2nd Amendment has the right to bear arms.

[elehhhhna]

21. The World's Largest Non-Profit

[TexasObserver]

49. Great statesmen warned against it.

We need military, but more often than not in the past 50 years, they've been used by the powerful to secure economic goals and political hegemony to secure economic objectives.

[elehhhhna]

16. Patent & Trademark Office.

[elehhhhna]

18. The US office of personnel management. OOPS, that's outsourced...

to a subsidiary of CARLYLE GROUP. Totally.

[elehhhhna]

19. All licensure bureaus.

[POAS]

17. Air traffic control n/t

[havocmom]

56. And TSA. Coast Guard which helps a lot of upper middle class and rich boaters

Coast Guard is not part of DOD.

[POAS]

59. The airports themselves

which are heavily subsidized by the government.

[grasswire]

20. national defense

the military is socialized defense

[TexasObserver]

62. yes, definitely, and it is the most expensive military in the world by far

[Puzzler]

22. What have the Romans ever done for us?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ


Courtesy of Monty Python

[DaveinJapan]

32. Well I'll probably get slammed for saying this but

Isn't the Fed kinda sorta Socialist as well?

I mean, it's a government mandated institution which is responsible for regulating the "free" markets (as much as they can, anyway, among other completely UN-mandated things)...

So in a sense, Wall Street is a Socialist institution when you really think about it.

flame away :hide:



edited to say "kicked and recommended", by the way...EXCELLENT topic, thanks! :)

[TexasObserver]

33. Socialism is what the biggest corporations get in America.

Free money for big companies, and the Fed master planning the economy.

The wealthy in this country want socialism for them and rugged individualism for everyone else.

[DaveinJapan]

34. My thoughts exactly! nt

[proud patriot]

37. Those people who check you out at the airport

:)

[TexasObserver]

54. Socialized Airport Security!!

not crazy about that one

[proud patriot]

71. nor I

But I've flown , so I trust them ..

[spanone]

39. there you go, bringing logic into the conversation

of course, anything the gov't. does could be construed as socialism.....it's bulllllll shiiiiit

[lame54]

40. I hate when he does that

[nashville_brook]

41. Medicare

[nashville_brook]

42. NASA and NOAA

[nashville_brook]

43. all Law Enforcement, Police, SWAT, etc.

[KittyWampus]

44. Water, has anyone mentioned the Big Kahuna yet? WATER!

[TexasObserver]

50. Yes, where would we be without socialized water and sewer systems?

We'd be a third world country.

[crickets]

47. There was a recent thread similar to this that might help.

Q: "What has the government ever done better than the private sector?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6138293

The list is long.

[chaska]

58. Here's a list I started a while back...

welfare
foodstamps
unemployment
social security
mail
fire
police
military
trash pickup
roads
prisons
gov't
public transportation
public parks
libraries
city festivals
concerts in the park

[TexasObserver]

60. Yes, basically all social and government services are socialism.

It's a good thing, not a bad thing. It's just unfortunate that those in government almost always serve themselves more than they serve the general public, as evidenced by the health care they provide themselves, at all levels of government.

[FLDCVADem]

61. Why do you insist on repeating untruths?

There is no free government health care for government employees.

[TexasObserver]

66. Why do you insist on personally attacking those who don't agree with you?

Those who work in government have better health coverage at a lower personal outlay than everyone else in society. That's not just. It's government providing health coverage at public expense to those who work in government. Whatever a government employee pays, it's far less than such person would pay without the government picking up most of the cost.

If those in government had to buy health insurance in the marketplace like everyone else, we'd quickly see an end to the disparity between the costs government employees have for health coverage and the cost that the average American has for such coverage. Government is supposed to serve the needs of everyone, not simply those who work for government.

[havocmom]

64. Just who do you work for?

We have debunked this for eons and you STILL keep posting lies and crap about it.

[TexasObserver]

67. You're missing the point. Government can provide decent health care to everyone.

There's simply no justification for government employees to have health coverage that isn't available to everyone.

You don't earn your health coverage. You get it because you have a job that provides you with coverage you would not have otherwise, and it is paid for predominantly by government revenues. If you wish to think the amount you personally pay is more than a small portion of your health care costs, you're certainly free to believe that.

You are one of many who think that they have health coverage because they deserve it, but it's really simply part of the largesse of government. I see no reason government workers should have any kind of coverage not available to the general public, a point you simply fail to address.

I would like to see government workers get only coverages available to all the public. That would quickly force government to provide such coverage to all Americans, not just those who work in government. We are all paying for most of your health coverage, because the vast majority of your health care is derived from the health coverage you have paid predominantly by government.

[havocmom]

69. You make a LOT of assumptions

I am NOT one of many who THINK I have coverage because I deserve it.

I DO not delude myself. I KNOW insurers would be more than happy to exclude care for trivial reasons. I KNOW I am damned lucky that Federal employees get a modicum of protection from bean counters employed by insurers to find ways out of paying claims/

I KNOW what it is like to have a serious condition, long term, chronic, debilitating pain and NO insurance, no ability to get care, despite the lie that all I have to do is go to ER where they are required to treat me. They don't do it. It's all for show.

I know what it is like to attempt suicide because of pain and the fear of never being able to work again, take care of my self, hell, even get to the fucking toilet.

You assume too much and you keep flat out lying that government workers have their care paid for.

THAT is what I really object to you doing. You lie about it as a way to make the argument for universal, single payer. That destroys your credibility and diminishes the whole fight for care.

Things are bad enough. Make the case for what is REALLY going on and stop the damn crap whine about government employees not having to pay for their insurance and medical care. You hurt the cause rather than help when you lie and give the RW sound bites.

Jesus Flippin Christ. Stick to the FACTS. FACTS make a much stronger case. And drop the chip off you shoulder about what coverage federal employees can BUY as part of the compensation for THEIR WORK CAREERS. It really is no different from what GOOD employers do for their people. That chip you have seems to have you slanted and limping. Not the best way to function.

I have insurance (NOW) but I can still fight like hell for universal single payer, which I do firmly believe is the real solution. You are barking up the wrong tree trying to guilt trip me. Go piss elsewhere. Better yet, drop the anger and just stick to the facts, join me in working to get facts out there and encourage people to make their wishes known to legislators. Pissing people off with lies does nothing but hurt and feed you anger.

Do something honest and constructive.

Please.

edited for typos

[TexasObserver]

70. Get back to me when you can discuss this more rationally.

I don't converse with people given to hysterics.

[havocmom]

72. LOL In other words, no comeback

I was perfectly rational AND calm. You have been a liability, not an asset on this topic. Those who know the facts re government employees know you have been on a tear about something you have not based in facts.

My post was honest, earnest and in the interest of helping you see how YOU anger and 'hysterics' was tripping you up, and that you fly off the handle making assumptions about those who do not agree with you, to your own harm. No skin off my nose if you LIKE carrying that chip around.

You ASSumed something and thought that made your argument. Wrong. You have no way of knowing what others have gone through. You have just been here, looking kinda green, with envy or inexperience, I don't know, about something which you have wrong.

Either you really need to get the facts straight, instead of believing everything said on RW talk shows and in silly emails, or you are trying to spread dis-information.

Nothing about my replies have been 'given to hysterics'. I just won't let lies go unchallenged.

[TexasObserver]

73. In other words, be an adult.

Grow up. Your angry routine is boring.

[havocmom]

74. I'm not angry. I am just one of several here at DU who won't let your lies go unaddressed.

Project much?

[shadowknows69]

68. I was rattling those off to a bunch of "Obama is a socialist" types yesterday

Strangely they didn't have much of a comeback for it. One person, who works in the Department of Social Services, said she thought DSS should be done away with completely. I couldn't bring myself to point out the extreme irony of that statement.

[chaska]

75. Yeah, and there was that person that said "just keep the gov'ts hands off my medicare"....

The idiot didn't even know that medicare IS a gov't program. And a damned popular one at that.

[chaska]

76. I think some of the confusion above is because some of us are discussing Socialism....

and some are talking about socialized things. There is a difference.

Everything that the people pay for through their taxes is by definition socialized. Therefore, all gov't jobs are socialized as is all healthcare that is payed for as part of the compensation package of that gov't job.

The above is not necessarily good or bad, it's just a description of the situation.

[TexasObserver]

80. Agreed. It's amazing that so many are in such a huff over it.

They act as if having government pay most of one's health care is a bad thing unless it comes with a job, as if that makes it a program not provided by government.

Socialism is good in many, many areas, and health care is one of them.

We have people falling through the cracks, and one of the main reasons is the rightwing meme that some here cannot resist espousing: "But I EARN my health care. I WORK for it."

[steelmania75]

77. add social security, medicare

[Starbucks Anarchist]

78. Social Security.