If NAFTA had not been passed, would our country be better off today?

[kentuck]

Would our unemployment rate be as high as it is now? We were told that we had to compete in the new world economy, even as our jobs left the country. Would not those customer service and textile jobs look good to a lot of people right now?

Of course, those that profit from cheap labor tell Americans they need to upgrade their education in order to compete in the world-wide market place. However, everyone in this country does not have the capacity to be a college graduate. We need these low-paying jobs for these folks.

Yes, a lot of Democrats still blame Bill Clinton for signing the NAFTA bill. It was a piece of Republican legislation that they had been working on at least since Nixon and it took a Democrat to finally sign it into law. That still leaves a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of Democrats.

Now, we find our unemployment rate approaching 10.5% officially, probably much higher unofficially, and no jobs on the horizon. This will be the challenge for the political Parties for the next decade. Where will these jobs come from?

[SoCalDem]

1. My take on it

SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed May-03-06 05:07 PM
Original message

Nafta/Cafta/Shafta? Do Borders even matter?


Wasn't the whole idea of these "ground-breaking" trade deals ALL about "breaking down borders" that slow the commerce between nations?

If THAT was the case for merchandise, why would it not also include labor? The moving of Job-generators OUT of the country, while importing the same products that used to be made here, seems to be little more than a waste of energy, except for the huge amounts of cash made from virtual slave labor wages paid to produce them. Of course the products have to be cheap, because the well-paid jobs necessary to buy more expensive goods, went out the window with the deals. For government to all of a sudden be worrying about the fact that labor is being "imported" as well, is disingenuous.

If the "border sealing" is going to be di rigueur, to prevent low paid workers from entering, then perhaps the same should be done for the low cost products.

To have one foot on the gas and the other on the brake is a pretty dangerous way to drive.

OWNERS of companies have NO problem "moving" for labor, so the JOBS can be (and are) outsourced across borders, the merchandise produced by those companies can be (and IS) moved across borders..

These trade deals have made borders rather insignificant.. The EU has apparently pretty open borders between other EU members' citizens, even though they are also sovereign nations (are they?)...

Perhaps a better tack to take with the 'gubbmint' is to question and re-define exactly what all these "deals" are doing to the integrity of our labor force.

In one issue they want the doors flung wide open for the goodies to flow freely, and cheaply, but in the other issue, they want complete lock-down, stay-where-you-belong rules. There is no yin to their yang..

If workers are expected to stay here and work, then the companies actually should be "encouraged" to stay here too..

There ARE NO jobs that Americans won't do..there are some jobs that have been so devalued that most American can't afford to do for the wages they now pay.

[Amos Moses]

2. good observations

Like you said, Americans will do anything for money. They just can't afford to do it for next to nothing.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

3. And the Mexicans displaced by the flood of U.S. agricultural exports to Mexico

(small farmers can't compete with cheap corn and other products) become an underground labor source for cheap, often Republican or "conservative Democratic" (same difference) employers, whose parties then get to demagogue the issue of "illegal immigrants."

As the Republican media endlessly demagogue the issue of "illegal immigrants," blaming them for everything from rising health care costs to rising crime rates to crowded schools, largely Republican agribusiness and food processing plants practically invite these people over the border to work for sub-standard wages.

[tinkerbell41]

5. No SHIT!!!

If I had a dollar..... for fuck's sake. My co-workers send me this e-mail bullshit all the time.
And I keep replying back, maybe you should start chain-mailing and protesting the companies that hire them. If there was no way to support themselves they wouldn't be here. They fucking bitch and moan but hey i got some Mexicans cutting my grass and I want to buy the cheapest food possible why pay 4.99 lb for chx breast when I can get it where Hector is choppin it up for 1.99.
Sorry, touched a nerve. These fuckers need to put two and two together

[jmowreader]

4. No, not really

Most of the outsourcing of jobs has not been to Canada or Mexico, but rather to the Pacific Rim where NAFTA does not apply.

[Dappleganger]

12. In 2001 dh's manufacturing plant moved to Mexico.

In January they informed him that his division was closing up and moving to Ireland.

It's not just NAFTA, but it sure did get the ball rolling downhill.

[DailyGrind51]

6. When you have people of diverse political positions, like Rev. Jesse Jackson,

Ralph Nader, Ross Perot, and Pat Buchanan all opposed to NAFTA and Bush 41 & 43, Bob Dole, and Bill Clinton in favor of NAFTA, I would bet that the former group has the correct assessment.

[ensho]

9. I would bet they didn't

nt

[Laelth]

7. We would have been much better off had NAFTA not been signed by Clinton.

Ross Perot had it right. There was a "giant sucking sound" and American labor were the ultimate losers in the deal.

:dem:

-Laelth

[ensho]

8. we would be better of without NAFTA

nt

[Vinca]

10. It's not just NAFTA, it's all our trade agreements.

Corporations got rich because suddenly they didn't have to pay pensions, health care and decent wages. The people who used to work in manufacturing were discarded like trash, then the Bush administration decided to doctor the numbers and added burger joints to the manufacturing job numbers. It's obscene. I don't see how we can have a permanent economic recovery without bona fide manufacturing jobs.

[kentuck]

11. True. Like the GATT .

And a lot of jobs that initially went to Mexico, left there and went to even cheaper labor markets. Labor is constantly looking for the bottom bargain.

[OwnedByFerrets]

13. It would be better off with logical tariffs, which all the other

industrial countries utilize, but we have abandoned.