This is what we're up against:

[dgibby]

Sen. Jim DeMint believes health care is a privilege, not a right. What do you think?
We didn't record your vote, because this poll has been closed.

Health care is a right. 31% 221 votes Health care is a privilege. 68% 485 votes
706 total vote.

http://www.postandcourier.com/

The poll is closed now, but 68% of these idiots think health care is a privilege. Unfreaking believable!

[rurallib]

1. and their views will change when their uninsured asses are lying

in a $500/day hospital bed.

[Echo In Light]

17. Once the shoe's on the other foot that's usually how it pans out n/t

[Bonobo]

2. To be perfectly honest...

This is the single thing that frightens me most about America.

It is that our own expectations for what we deserve and how we demand to be treated is so low, has fallen so low, that I do not see it ever rising back again.

I remember when "phone systems" (press 1 for English, etc.) began. I remember when, at the time, thinking that we would never be allowed to go back to EXPECTING that a human would pick up the phone when we called a company to whom we were paying our bills.

Expectations are the hardest thing to build back up in my experience.

It is what makes me fear the most for America. That we have learned to take it, and like it.

[dgibby]

8. Point well taken.

It's sad and scary at the time time. I think most, if not all, of it is caused by the "Dumbing down of America", most notably, lack of critical thinking skills.

[Occulus]

14. Which is itself due to an underfunded and generally neglected public education system

which, in its own turn, leads straight back to the republicans.

Their scorn for public education was and is intentional. They don't want people to be able to think critically and ask intelligent questions. "Teh stupidz" makes it oh so very much easier for them to get away with swindling the public, to convince them that up is really down, black is really white, and yes, that wetness from above isn't them pissing on us but is, in fact, just a gentle rain.

[tjwash]

3. Dude...it's South-Freaking-Carolina. They voted 54 percent for Mc-Palin in 2008 for christ sake.

You expected something different?

The problem is, that people THINK we are up against this, and we are not. Fuck the repugs...They are irrelevant right now. We need to start excluding these shitheads from all of the meetings and task forces on health-care, just like they excluded the dems on all the committees on going to war in Iraq back when they had the majority.

[dgibby]

4. I live here. Tell me about it.

I don't expect anything different, but the stupidity gets to me sometimes. The only people in this state that walk upright belong to DU!

PS: It's Dudette, not Dude.:hi:

[tjwash]

6. Oh, I know how you feel...San Diego is a hell of a lot like that too.

Ultra-conservative-wingnut-hell. With a beach.

Big red fucking blotch in a blue state. This was one of cali's HUGE "yes on prop 8" bases a few months ago.

[LiberalAndProud]

12. ^REC^ You are right, we are not.

It is so very easy to get Republicans to concede that something has to be done about health care around here, I find it hard to believe. The hard part is getting them to believe that we can afford to do something without bankrupting the country.

[MindPilot]

5. Yeah, well so is driving...

but just try to tell someone they can't.

This is just stupid sloganeering that muddies the issue.

I'll bet if the question were a little different, like "should every American citizen have access to quality healthcare regardless of their employment status?" you would get an entirely different result.

[dgibby]

7. I agree.

It's all about the framing, isn't it. A lot of polls are designed to elicit a predetermined outcome.

Analagous to the old medical saying, "If you don't want to find a fever, then don't take a temperature".

[flaminbats]

19. exactly!!

the options are..is health care a right or privilege?

The response would be reversed if the options are..should health care be a right or privilege? :thumbsup:

[FormerDittoHead]

9. There is something very, very wrong with our society and my personal example.

Does that mean I 'hate America'? In ways I do, because there are things that are very wrong and YET there are people who DEFEND it.

I wouldn't mind the wrong things, but what I HATE are the people who defend the very things that are wrong.

I have a very, VERY good example.

My 5 year old son needs to see a doctor about his throat. He can't speak right. His breathing is strained.

We made an appt at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. Practically the premiere hospital in the world for children. On the side, the appt for the initial consultation took over 10 weeks to get.

Yesterday, we got a robo-call to call their pre-registration to have our insurance checked/cleared.

Now, we have excellent insurance. If I were a Republican, I'd imagine I could be one of the ones defending the 'system' we have, but as it is, I have a BRAIN and can see the OTHER scenario.

Here's the other scenario, and here's what's wrong:

What if I (not my son) weren't Medicaid poor, but I had a job but didn't get / chose not to have medical insurance. I (probably) simply couldn't afford whatever is going to be done for my son.

WHY THE *FUCK* SHOULD MY FIVE YEAR OLD SON SUFFER DUE TO WHAT *I* CAN / CAN'T AFFORD / CHOOSE TO SPEND? WHY SHOULD *HE* SUFFER BECAUSE *I* DON'T HAVE / WANT TO SPEND THE MONEY? WHAT THE HELL SHOULD *HE* DO AT FIVE YEARS OLD TO TAKE FUCKING "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY" ABOUT HIS THROAT?

Again, the problem isn't so much that we have a system whose distribution management is decades behind most of the developed world but the REAL problem is that somehow we have people who would DEFEND this obviously broken system.

[dgibby]

10. I'm not trying to alarm you,

but if he's unable to speak and his breathing is strained, he probably needs to be seen immediately, either through urgent care or in an emergency room. Those are symptoms of a compromised airway. If you haven't called his pediatrician about these symptoms, please do so asap.
:hug:

[FormerDittoHead]

11. Yes, we've seen a pediatrician.

We were first alerted with this when he had a cold and his pre-k teacher said he had 'kissing tonsils'.

http://www.ghorayeb.com/KissingTonsils.html (yech)

My boy's tonsils are NOT touching. More like this (yech part two):
http://www.ghorayeb.com/TonsilHypertrophy.html

Our pediatrician said his case wasn't acute, and recommended seeing a specialist (not a specific one).

Our appt is this Thursday morning.

The wait was frustrating, however, because we were ready to go in June/July, but now his Kindergarten school year may be interrupted if he needs a procedure. (Mom made an appt in June for August, but then upon following up, it was somehow LOST, and she had to reschedule).

[LiberalAndProud]

13. Ten weeks waiting in line for health care in the good ol USA.

But it's better than Canada, right?

[margotb822]

15. That's one thing I really don't get about the argument

People already are waiting for care and procedures. People have to make appointments to go to the doctor regardless. Why would a government option change that? It's not like there are going to be fewer doctors...

[LiberalAndProud]

18. I know. The "lines" and the "rationing" arguments are just so ...

WTF???

I do love getting into discussion about this issue though. It's such an easy argument to win.

[Silent3]

16. We have to decide to make health care a right, and should.

I wouldn't say health care is as fundamental a right as, say, free speech or the right to a trial by a jury of your peers, but any modern society with sufficient wealth to provide health care to all should do so. If it weren't for all of the waste and inefficiency in our current system we're already spending more than enough money to cover everyone anyway, with better results than we currently get, so there's no question that we can afford to do it.

[Feron]

20. I wouldn't put much stock in an internet poll.

There are too many ways to manipulate one.

[flaminbats]

21. I'll put stock into the irony..

A majority of those who believe health care is currently a right, think Obama will take this away..a majority who know health care is treated as a privilege want it to become a basic human right.