Why do some people cling desperately to conspiracy theories?

[Archae]

No matter how outlandish or simply idiotic they are?

[TransitJohn]

1. Do you think they really put thorazine in the peanut butter?

:evilgrin:

[Archae]

5. I never heard of THAT one before!

:crazy:

But is reality just too simple for too many people?

[stopbush]

14. Of course not. The thorazine has clouded your memory!!

Lay off the peanut butter.

[JonQ]

16. But peanut butter is great

delicious and healthy.

[Javaman]

23. and I drool for it. nt

[JonQ]

39. They can have my chunky skippy

when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

[Javaman]

41. First they came for my chunky skippy and I did nothing...nt

[JonQ]

42. Next it'll be the smooth

then cashew butter, then reeses and nutella and all vaguely nut based pastes.


I'll start clearing room in my attic to hide them, when the orders are finally issued.

[FarCenter]

55. Give them vegemite

That will stop them.

[stopbush]

60. No it's not. That's the thorazine talking!!!!

If they omit the thorazine, peanut butter tastes like cat poop.

[JonQ]

63. Then I'm going to just start

spreading thorazine on everything.

[stopbush]

66. Try it on cat poop. Yummy!

[timtom]

19. I'm with you.

I mean, there really wasn't a meeting on Jekyll Island among top financiers in 1913 and the Federal Reserve wasn't really sprung on us in 1913 and the U.S. never engendered a false flag operation.

Everything is exactly as it has been historically presented.

[PDJane]

2. probably because there are such things as conspiracies.

If what is given as a reason by the powers that be seems not quite right, it's likely because it isn't quite right.

[timeforpeace]

20. There's Bush/Iraq/Oil. Cheney/Iraq/torture. Bush/Supreme Court/Election. Bush/insert conspiracy here

[PDJane]

53. And false flag terrorism,

and Islamist mercenaries, and .....don't forget operation Gladio, operation Northwoods, the Gulf of Tonkin, and on and on and on.

And the things that could simply not have happened the way we're supposed to believe they did.

[Turbineguy]

3. That's a Big Question

I think it's a basic component of religion. We like to have things explained. Cuz God made us that way.

[timeforpeace]

75. Because we can't think of any other reason that Repukes do what they do?

[Vickers]

4. Who put you up to this?

:grr:

[lpbk2713]

22. Good one.

I don't know about you, but I do know for a
fact that the paranoids are out to get me.


:hide:

[SteppingRazor]

6. To confirm their prejudged world view, or else to make order of chaos, or sense of the senseless.

Examples:
Prejudged world view:
Democrats are evil. It is impossible that they'd want to just give healthcare to everyone.
Gasp! Death panels!!!



Sense of the senseless:
JFK shot in Dallas by a lone nut.
But it can't be a lone nut. There has to be some deeper meaning to this man's death!

[pampango]

7. You talking about my (true) conspiracies

or their (false) conspiracies. :)

[Archae]

10. Yes.

:-)

[Lagomorph]

61. You're one of THEM, aren't you?

[Historic NY]

8. Its the 'radio waves' it tells them something.

[create.peace]

9. i am a believer in de facto conspiracies, like the good ole boys, the country club,

the board room, etc

[EOTE]

11. Because many conspiracy theories are true.

Once they've been proven, they're no longer outlandish and idiotic. Also, once they've been proven, the ones who once called them outlandish and idiotic claim they've never said anything of the sort. In fact, they typically say that said proven conspiracy theory isn't a conspiracy theory at all. That's the nature of conspiracy theories. They're demeaned and mocked incessantly for being a conspiracy theory until they're proven and then they're no longer conspiracy theories at all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. They're weak, insecure losers.

And thus, need to invent absurd stories to explain their failures.

[TexasObserver]

71. No, that would be those who always swallow everything authority figures tell them.

And like Junior G Men, need to feel proud for doing their part enforcing the official story, whatever it may be.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

73. Let's cut to the chase.

Conspiracy theorists will believe any crap that comes along.

They're very gullible people.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/3791630

[TexasObserver]

76. So say the gullible and incurious.

Perhaps if you had experienced more in life, maybe had a Top Secret clearance, maybe worked in intelligence, maybe dealt with the dissemination of misinformation of cover stories daily you wouldn't be so ready to believe everything you're told by a man at a podium.

I know that cover stories are commonly used by government to create a different reality, and quite successfully. I know that most conspiracies are not revealed, are not found out, and do not get loose simply because many people know about them. That's the kind of nonsense believed by someone who has never held a Top Secret clearance.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. So you're arguing we should believe you...

because you claim to have had top security clearance, and therefore are an authority figure.

:spray:

[TexasObserver]

79. No, because I have experience that allows me to know.

I don't care what you believe. The purpose of our dialog is more than your communicating with me and my communicating with you.

You are representing a line of thought, one that I always find amusing: You always believe "the official story." You are proud of this accomplishment, too, which makes it all the more laughable.

That you official story embracers feel a need to use the Limbaughesque method of denigrating as stupid your intellectual superiors only adds to the humor you unintentionally sow.

Keep it up. You're hilarious.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

81. So, yeah, you're an authority figure, and we should believe yo.

"You are representing a line of thought, one that I always find amusing: You always believe 'the official story.'"

I've never said that, I just don't think people should believe really stupid shit like explosives in the WTC, or cell phones causing cancer.

"That you official story embracers feel a need to use the Limbaughesque method of denigrating as stupid your intellectual superiors only adds to the humor you unintentionally sow."

You official conspiracy story embracers feel the need to use the Limbaughesque method of believing and stupid shit you want, just because you want to believe it.

Oh, and I love the irony about denigrating and intellectual superiors.

"Keep it up. You're hilarious."

Yes, many lulz are to be had.

[crazyjoe]

82. stop now, your embarrassing yourself.

mr anonymous poster
(chuckle..)

[stopbush]

13. Because an outlandish theory beats a simple but unfulfilling explanation every time.

At the heart of every crazy CT is the inability of the human mind to wrap itself around the truth that great men/causes/ideas can be undone by mundane happenings and insignificant people, or that great tragedies and disasters are often instigated by seemingly insignificant events. Seems we as a species like balance, and a enormous crime/wrong needs to be balanced in our minds by an equally enormous explanation.

BTW - it's not just CTs, it's stories and myths that ring "true" to people because they fulfill some need in that person's world view. I remember when it came out that the bushco-generated myth about the heroism of Jessica Lynch was a total fabrication. Upon hearing that it was a fabrication, my mother-in-law spontaneously remarked, "Oh, that's so sad. It would be so nice if it were true."

Go figure.

[votingupstart]

72. i think this is a very close answer nt

[Adsos Letter]

77. What he said...pretty much...with a caveat here and there...

to accomodate my conspiracy theories. :D

[JonQ]

15. Makes them feel special

somehow "in the know" so they can throw that in everyones faces and pretend they are more intelligent than everyone else.

Plus it provides a ready scapegoat for all their problems, and scapegoats are always fun.

[Pangolin2]

29. Ding, ding, the WINNAH!

:toast:

[WeDidIt]

17. Cognitive dissonance n/t

[sweetpotato]

18. Well....

If Sibel Edmonds is telling the truth, then she confirmed a wacky conspiracy theory that was floating around here for a couple of years during the previous administration. She said that a member of Congress was being blackmailed into going along.

Blackmail.

Surely its just a wacky conspiracy theory that all that spying was used to blackmail members of Congress - NEVER HAPPEN. OUR government would NEVER do that!!!

Unless what Sibel says is true.

That's at least one that has been proven to be true.

Hard to let go of all of them when some of them prove true.

Just because the label "conspiracy theorist" has been defined as "nutjob-wacko" doesn't mean taht all conspiracy theories are crazy. You've just been conditioned by the media to assume that there's no such thing as a conspiracy and if you believe there are, then you are crazy.

[wildbilln864]

69. well said! Thank you. nt

:hi:

[Odin2005]

21. Confirmation bias.

All observation is theory-laden, so they interpret everything in terms of the CT, which, in their minds, "confirms" the CT.

[pscot]

24. Just because we're paranoid

that doesn't mean we they aren't out to get us.

[Fumesucker]

25. Why do some people cling desperately to "conventional wisdom"?

No matter how outlandish or idiotic it is?

[Junkdrawer]

26. They're weak, insecure losers.

And thus, need to accept absurd stories to avoid confronting the truth.

For example, see post#12

[Ignis]

34. *golfclap* Well played, sir. (nt)

[Echo In Light]

30. Because that degree of denial is the glue for modern "civilization."

Progre$$, and such ;)

Plus it affords those who abide it the appearance of being level headed and reasonable. See, a defining characteristic of orthodoxy is the desperate want to avoid appearing unseemly by entertaining certain thoughts and questions which usually carry with them specific risk for social and/or profe$$ional lo$$es.

[Whisp]

27. tell me some theories you 'do' believe in

because there are plenty around to talk about.

Lets talk about those instead of some of the 'poisoning the well' ones you mean - that is the planting of outlandish and simply idiotic and totally made up conspiracies so people like you can laugh at 'all' conspiracy theories as being just as nutty and then the conspirators can just carry on and continue to conspire against us all.

[Echo In Light]

28. Michael Parenti: CONSPIRACY PHOBIA ON THE LEFT

"Almost as an article of faith, some individuals believe that conspiracies are either kooky fantasies or unimportant aberrations. To be sure, wacko conspiracy theories do exist. There are people who believe that the United States has been invaded by a secret United Nations army equipped with black helicopters, or that the country is secretly controlled by Jews or gays or feminists or black nationalists or communists or extraterrestrial aliens. But it does not logically follow that all conspiracies are imaginary.

Conspiracy is a legitimate concept in law: the collusion of two or more people pursuing illegal means to effect some illegal or immoral end. People go to jail for committing conspiratorial acts. Conspiracies are a matter of public record, and some are of real political significance. The Watergate break-in was a conspiracy, as was the Watergate cover-up, which led to Nixon’s downfall. Iran-contra was a conspiracy of immense scope, much of it still uncovered. The savings and loan scandal was described by the Justice Department as “a thousand conspiracies of fraud, theft, and bribery,” the greatest financial crime in history.

Conspiracy or Coincidence?

Often the term “conspiracy” is applied dismissively whenever one suggests that people who occupy positions of political and economic power are consciously dedicated to advancing their elite interests. Even when they openly profess their designs, there are those who deny that intent is involved. In 1994, the officers of the Federal Reserve announced they would pursue monetary policies designed to maintain a high level of unemployment in order to safeguard against “overheating” the economy. Like any creditor class, they preferred a deflationary course. When an acquaintance of mine mentioned this to friends, he was greeted skeptically, “Do you think the Fed bankers are deliberately trying to keep people unemployed?” In fact, not only did he think it, it was announced on the financial pages of the press. Still, his friends assumed he was imagining a conspiracy because he ascribed self-interested collusion to powerful people.

At a World Affairs Council meeting in San Francisco, I remarked to a participant that U.S. leaders were pushing hard for the reinstatement of capitalism in the former communist countries. He said, “Do you really think they carry it to that level of conscious intent?” I pointed out it was not a conjecture on my part. They have repeatedly announced their commitment to seeing that “free-market reforms” are introduced in Eastern Europe. Their economic aid is channeled almost exclusively into the private sector. The same policy holds for the monies intended for other countries. Thus, as of the end of 1995, “more than $4.5 million U.S. aid to Haiti has been put on hold because the Aristide government has failed to make progress on a program to privatize state-owned companies” (New York Times 11/25/95).

Those who suffer from conspiracy phobia are fond of saying: “Do you actually think there’s a group of people sitting around in a room plotting things?” For some reason that image is assumed to be so patently absurd as to invite only disclaimers. But where else would people of power get together – on park benches or carousels? Indeed, they meet in rooms: corporate boardrooms, Pentagon command rooms, at the Bohemian Grove, in the choice dining rooms at the best restaurants, resorts, hotels, and estates, in the many conference rooms at the White House, the NSA, the CIA, or wherever. And, yes, they consciously plot – though they call it “planning” and “strategizing” – and they do so in great secrecy, often resisting all efforts at public disclosure. No one confabulates and plans more than political and corporate elites and their hired specialists. To make the world safe for those who own it, politically active elements of the owning class have created a national security state that expends billions of dollars and enlists the efforts of vast numbers of people.

Yet there are individuals who ask with patronising, incredulous smiles, do you really think that the people at the top have secret agendas, are aware of their larger interests, and talk to each other about them? To which I respond, why would they not? This is not to say that every corporate and political elite is actively dedicated to working for the higher circles of power and property. Nor are they infallible or always correct in their assessments and tactics or always immediately aware of how their interests are being affected by new situations. But they are more attuned and more capable of advancing their vast interests than most other social groups.

The alternative is to believe that the powerful and the privileged are somnambulists, who move about oblivious to questions of power and privilege; that they always tell us the truth and have nothing to hide even when they hide so much; that although most of us ordinary people might consciously try to pursue our own interests, wealthy elites do not; that when those at the top employ force and violence around the world it is only for the laudable reasons they profess; that when they arm, train, and finance covert actions in numerous countries, and then fail to acknowledge their role in such deeds, it is because of oversight or forgetfulness or perhaps modesty; and that it is merely a coincidence how the policies of the national security state so consistently serve the interests of the transnational corporations and the capital-accumulation system throughout the world." ~ Michael Parenti

[Junkdrawer]

33. Good Post

:thumbsup:

[Echo In Light]

38. Yes. Thanks. This line ...

"...people who occupy positions of political and economic power are consciously dedicated to advancing their elite interests."

That, which is really the dark heart of most big CTs, is, oddly enough, often the bug-a-boo that those long conditioned to 'respect' authority will fiercely disavow and deny.

[Junkdrawer]

43. Here's what I don't get:

The evidence is pretty undeniable that the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq was:

1.) Necessary for the continued US control of world oil supplies

2.) Planned WELL in advance of 9/11

3.) Politically impossible without a 9/11-type event

and yet when you suggest 9/11 was planned and executed by those who NEEDED a 9/11, you're looked upon as the worst kind of kook.

[Echo In Light]

45. Yes. PNAC? Purely co-incidental. To suggest otherwise indicates you're from Neptune.

[Junkdrawer]

51. PNAC was just a bold chapter in a story that goes back...

to the beginning of the 20th century and the conversion of the British fleet from coal to oil.

Fascinating stuff.

Here's the best book I've found on this history:



http://www.amazon.com/Century-War-Anglo-American-Politics-World/dp/074532309X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251837114&sr=8-1

[Echo In Light]

56. I'm sure you've experienced this situation before - -

You find yourself having a convo w/someone re various CTs, or some such similar topic. And you, having some conception of the seemingly numerous points of entry into the discussion, seize upon one incident, only to then realize that it's nigh impossible to discuss one aspect w/o likewise having to touch upon countless other, interrelated items.

To someone unfamiliar w/PNAC, that in itself can be a Herculean task for some to wrap their mind around, precisely b/c it isn't data found within mainstream discourse, while others will figuratively brush it aside and take the timeline much, much further back. And so it goes ...

Thanks for the book rec!

[Junkdrawer]

58. Yep. It took some time, but after copious reading I now see it...

as a fairly consistent march of history. But as you suggest, here's the problem:

The truth about our history has been hidden from the general public for so long that to begin to explain it takes hours and hours of detailed discussions.

Robert Newman's "History of Oil" is as good an attempt I've seen to do it with 45 minutes of humor:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5267640865741878159

[Hannah Bell]

62. unlike we "little people," who are vile in our pursuit of self-interest, those in power

= disinterested patrons of the public good, doncha know.

daddy is wise & good, because how could we live securely if he weren't?

[Ignis]

37. "the powerful and the privileged are somnambulists"

Great article from Mr. Parenti. I saw (heard?) him speak on this subject in ~2002. He said he hadn't intended to broach the topic, but because he'd been inundated by coincidence theorists at almost every lecture he gave after 9/11, he thought it was high time to shine some light on this logical disconnect from which many of us on the Left suffer.

[jaksavage]

40. What he/she said, times 3.5. nt

[redqueen]

46. Thanks for posting that.

I'm kind of surprised to see so many lining up to post simpleminded insults in response to the OP... although I shouldn't be, given the tone of the OP.

Not every CT is a wacked-out tinfoil-hat mockable joke... and pretending for one second that that is the case, IMO, is dangerous.

[Echo In Light]

49. And given the 'biggies' of the past 9 yrs alone, MIND BOGGLING, lol

[redqueen]

50. Exactly... you'd think by now that more people had learned.

*sigh*

[Echo In Light]

52. Well, in truth, they have, and that's threatening to naysayer types. Hence their vitriol.

[omega minimo]

74. After all the confirmations of Bushco crimes we knew about when they were called "CT"

this rhetorical OP is bizarre.

[DefenseLawyer]

31. You know when fluoridation began?...1946.

1946, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it?

[Echo In Light]

32. George Carlin on "conspiracy theories;" convergent interests

"And people say, Oh, your conspiracy thing. Listen, don't be making fun of the word "conspiracy." It has meaning. Powerful people have convergent interests. They don't always need a meeting to decide on something. They inhabit the same clubs. They sit on the same boards. They have all this common ownership and they are very few in number. They control everything, and they do whatever they want. two-party system keeps the people at bay. They give them microwaves, fanny packs, sneakers with lights in the heels, dustbusters, to keep them distracted, keep them just calm enough that they're not going to try something."

http://blogs.salon.com/0002007/2005/08/25.html

[Echo In Light]

47. More from Carlin on the subject: "the public sucks."

"The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they're an irrelevancy. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They've long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They've got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies, so that they control just about all of the news and information you hear. They've got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying – lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else," ranted the comedian whose routines were studied in graduate schools.

"But I'll tell you what they don't want ... They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. You know what they want? Obedient workers – people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And, now, they're coming for your Social Security. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club."

And:

"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. Fuck Hope.'"

George Carlin: American Radical:
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/331953

[EFerrari]

35. Because we are story making animals. n/t

[X_Digger]

36. Because we are highly evolved pattern matching monkeys

Pattern matching = life.

The monkey with red spots and a runny nose died, so stay away from monkeys with runny noses.
The monkey who ate the green berries shit all over himself, not going eat those green berries.
The monkey who picked up the slinky stick got bit, don't pick up that snake thing.
...
<advance 1.5M years>
...
The caveman who prayed to UR took down a mammoth on the hunt, so this religion thing might be true.
...
<advance 10k years>
Whatever the random combination of data, there must be a pattern connecting the pieces.

When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. The pattern-matching 'hammer' has been one of our most important tools, so it's no surprise that we use it so often, even when not appropriate.

Taken to the extreme, you get things like Pareidolia, ie, seeing Jesus in a piece of toast, or generally Apophenia, which is seeing patterns where none exist.

[woo me with science]

44. Very nice. nt

[shraby]

48. Two reasons...lack of critical thinking and because of

critical thinking.

[The Straight Story]

54. Because they don't trust corporations or government to tell the truth - did you believe bush

most of the time when he spoke?

[NightWatcher]

57. why do some people so easily believe whatever they are told?

Please pardon my analytical brain that desires to examine evidence instead of just believing everything I am told.

[grantcart]

59. The flouride in the water triggers the conspiracy lobe in the brain.

[Terry in Austin]

64. Mmm. A conspiracy theory about conspiracy theorists.

Verrry interesting!

:tinfoilhat:

[GreenArrow]

65. Why do some people cling desperately to official theories

No matter how outlandish or simply idiotic they are?

[conscious evolution]

67. Why do some people live in denial?

No matter how clear and overwhelming the evidence?

[sixstrings75]

68. How can someone live such a sheltered life...

And not have been exposed to endless corruption in every facet of our lives?

And then not be able to extrapolate that concept and apply it on a larger scale?

How, I ask, how?

[TexasObserver]

70. Because sane, rational people know that conspiracies are common.

It's catching them that is uncommon.

The question you should ask youself is: Why are you so heavily invested in always finding acceptable whatever cover story you're told by those in positions of power?

[Uncle Joe]

80. That's what Julius Caesar said, just before they started naming salads after him. n/t

[Echo In Light]

83. Bumping to keep this visible