Worst yet from Pat Buchanan: "Did Hitler Want War?" His answer: No.

[Faygo Kid]

MSNBC has no choice but to fire him now. You have to read the whole miserable, warped rewrite of history to understand. "Happy" 70th anniversary of the Nazi invasion of Poland. Here's how Pat fondly honors the day. Excerpts follow.

Did Hitler Want War?

. . . The German-Polish war had come out of a quarrel over a town the size of Ocean City, Md., in summer. Danzig, 95 percent German, had been severed from Germany at Versailles in violation of Woodrow Wilson's principle of self-determination. Even British leaders thought Danzig should be returned.

Why did Warsaw not negotiate with Berlin, which was hinting at an offer of compensatory territory in Slovakia? Because the Poles had a war guarantee from Britain that, should Germany attack, Britain and her empire would come to Poland's rescue. . . .

. . . Why, when Paris fell, did Hitler not demand the French fleet, as the Allies demanded and got the Kaiser's fleet? Why did he not demand bases in French-controlled Syria to attack Suez? Why did he beg Benito Mussolini not to attack Greece?

Because Hitler wanted to end the war in 1940, almost two years before the trains began to roll to the camps.

Hitler had never wanted war with Poland, but an alliance with Poland such as he had with Francisco Franco's Spain, Mussolini's Italy, Miklos Horthy's Hungary and Father Jozef Tiso's Slovakia. . . . http://www.theusdaily.com/articles/viewopiarticle.jsp?id=2552&type=Opinion

No further comment necessary for any with even a modicum of understanding of the TRUE history of Hitler and World War II.

[LeftishBrit]

1. SICK!!!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. It must not be easy for him to go through life unable to display his swastika pin

Poor Nazi.

[SidneyCarton]

3. Pat's an unreconstructed fascist.

The trouble is Hitler's behavior during WWII makes the rest of us freak out when anyone advocates fascism, so poor Pat has to try and rehabilitate the Fuehrer.

[asdjrocky]

4. They won't fire him.

No one said a word when he said no country has done more for black people than the United States. He's went around the bend sometime around 1968 and they still treat him with reverence.

[rhett o rick]

26. Even though MSNBC is friendlier than the other members of CorpMedia, they still are members. nt

[Juche]

5. Hitler didn't want war

In the book 'the young Hitler I knew' Kubizek talks about how when dialoging with Hitler in the early 40s Hitler would be angry about the war and wanting a resolution. So I suppose it is possible.

Hitler did want to conquer nations to the east of Germany and subjugate them. He just didn't want them to fight back. Apparently neither did Buchanan.

[skier_]

8. For someone who didn't want war

he was quite the instigator.

[Juche]

11. He wanted to conquer nations, he didn't want them to fight back

Hitler wanted to violate the boundaries and overthrow the militaries of foreign nations, but he didn't want them to resist. So in that regards, no he didn't want a war. He wanted the spoils of war w/o the actual war itself.

That is basically the argument Buchanan is making, just let Hitler do what he wanted, and don't resist.

[skier_]

14. Oh I understand that

I just think his thought process was idiotic.

[havocmom]

68. Hitler was a Republican? That's their methodology: conquer without defenders fighting.

Sorta like people who try to let rapists off easy: don't fight it.

[provis99]

29. nonsense. Hitler wanted a shooting war with Poland.

he was uninterested in peaceful annexation, vis-a-vis Czechoslovakia; he would not have accepted the peaceful surrender of Poland, wanted a deliberate violent invasion.

[notadmblnd]

67. and he created it.

the initial invasion was staged if IIRC? Didn't he use the excuse that he had to put down an uprising by the German people that lived there?

[OwnedByFerrets]

53. That was my first thought also.

I'm sure he would have preferred the world just roll over and be conquered.

[Cleita]

6. He's supposed to be a historian?

Hitler manufactured an attack on the German border with Poland so that he had an excuse to invade that country. He wanted all that extra territory so Germans could have lebensraum supposedly. I think he just wanted to be emperor over all of Europe so he could breed the master race and kill everyone else.

[NoPasaran]

7. It's true. All Hitler wants is peace

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv3pm0veWQI

"I don't want war! All I want is peace...peace...peace...!
A little piece of Poland,
A little piece of France,
A little piece of Austria
And Hungary, perchance!
A little slice of Turkey
And all that that entails,
And then a bit of England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales!"

[Occulus]

16. AAAaaaaaand now it's

Springtime for Hitler and Germany
Deutschland is happy and gay!
We're marching to a faster pace
Look out, here comes the master race!
Springtime for Hitler and Germany
Rhineland's a fine land once more!
Springtime for Hitler and Germany
Watch out, Europe
We're going on tour!

[lapfog_1]

37. Again, better with pictures!

[Blue_Tires]

64. greatest scene from the greatest movie!

[spanone]

9. pat sees it from the nazi point of view, there is no other explanation.

[redqueen]

10. Unbelievable.

I knew he was a miserable, racist POS... but I wouldn't have expected this. :wow:

[barbtries]

30. pretty much

echoes my first response. i knew he was a racist. but an apologist for hitler?! nah.

[redqueen]

50. Guess we know better now.

I've seen enough of that guy to last me several lifetimes. I really wish they'd get him off the air. If he was a female he'd have been gone long ago. Women aren't allowed to stay in those jobs past a certain age... with Barbara being the lone exception, which only proves the rule.

[goclark]

40. He is desperate to keep his position with MSNBC

He is getting more insane by the minute.

[infidel dog]

12. Be honest, Pat.

While watching "Triumph of The Will" late at night do you march around the room in full Gestapo uniform or naked except for your big black boots?

[Faygo Kid]

15. I'd laugh, but it might be true. And this is what passes for a "commentator" on MSNBC?

Is there a petition I can sign somewhere to get this neo-Nazi off the air?

[Creena]

18. You just described my lab partner from high school.

His grandfather is a lot like Buchanan. I don't know why MSNBC still employs the nut.

[niceypoo]

13. Had Europe just handed their governments, land, and populations to Hitler...

...war could have been averted!

Pat Robertson ranks right up there with used toilet paper these days.

[Sebastian Doyle]

20. Well, yes, but....

This thread is about Pat Buchanan.... not Pat Robertson.

Robertson would acknowledge that Hitler wanted war, but he'd also say that Satan made him do it. And probably claim that Hitler was gay too.

“When lawlessness is abroad in the land, the same thing will happen here that happened in Nazi Germany. Many of those people involved in Adolph Hitler were Satanists. Many of them were homosexuals. The two things seem to go together.” - 700 Club, 1-21-93

[Vinnie From Indy]

39. LOL!

Very funny!

[niceypoo]

47. Just an aside????

*lol*

[Turbineguy]

17. Yes, if only Hitler

had followed Pat's excellent analysis. Of course it would have helped if all those countries had simply rolled over too.

[eShirl]

19. Poor widdle misunderstood Hitler.

All he ever wanted was wuv.

[old mark]

21. I have no idea why trash like Patty is welcomed on every TV program

as a comentator. He has nothing useful or intelligent to say, and I have no wish to support the old prick in his dotage.

Take him off the social security and medicare rolls as he would no doubt prefer and let him fucking starve.

mark

[Prophet 451]

22. Well, no, he didn't WANT war

Hitler might have been a maniac but he wasn't stupid, he didn't actively want a war. But he did want a shitload of territory and the extermination of Jews, Roma, disabled, liberals, socialists, etc and he wasn't too bothered if that caused a war.

Chimpy is perhaps unique in history in the sense that I cannot think of any other figure who started a war just for the sake of having a war. The rest, including Hitler, all wanted to achieve something and the war was a side-effect of that. Chimpy just started a war for the hell of it.

[redqueen]

23. Not true... it was a war for profit.

Profit for his oil buddies, and Cheney's KBR buddies.

[Prophet 451]

28. Ah yes, good point

That hadn't occured to me. Make that some physical objective then.

[redqueen]

52. Yes, totally unnecessary.

Just like the first Gulf War.

[provis99]

31. no, he deliberately wanted war with Poland.

he was just a little uncertain about war with Britain.

[Prophet 451]

35. Disagree

He wanted to occupy Poland and wasn't too bothered if that caused a war in the process. If Poland had just invited the German army in, there wouldn't have been a war. That's what I'm saying.

[cali]

34. lol. so hitler isn't exceptional and bushy is?

of the two I'd have to go with Hitler, though really, nothing is new under the sun. however, saying that bush started a war for the hell of it and no one else ever has, is nonsense. furthermore, he did indeed have reasons: war for profit, war for oil, war to keep America's war machine in business, and well lubed, revenge, and on and on.

[Prophet 451]

36. That point was made upthread

Look, I'm not defending Hitler. I have more reason to hate the bastard than most so, trust me, I'm not defending him.

My point was that the others all wanted to seize something: Territory mostly but sometimes resources or occasionally slaves. If Poland had just stood aside and let the Nazis march in, there would have been no war. It's only in fairly recent times (say, the last century) that it has become profitable to have a war.

However, as has been pointed out upthread and as you have just pointed out, one of Bush's motives was oil, a resource. Wars over resources have happened before so I was wrong. Apologies and I retract the point.

[OwnedByFerrets]

54. Actually, it was started for the "capital" it would bring him.

[Johonny]

24. It was only a month ago Pat told us Darwin was evil

because evolution lead to Naziism. Now Hitler didn't want war. So I guess on the plus side evolution is ok now in Pat's eyes?

[mucifer]

25. pat sure loves him some hitler.

[Canuckistanian]

38. He's obsessed

He probably has genuine German Nazi-era toilet seats in his home.

And let's not even talk about the lampshades.

[mucifer]

44. yeah lets not.

[provis99]

27. dead wrong, Pat. Here's why.

on Aug 31, 1939, the German government gave a list of demands to the Polish government which they must meet, or be invaded. Having seen what happened to other countries targeted by the Nazis, Poland immediately agreed to all conditions; this even though the Nazis had specifically chosen conditions which the Nazis felt Poland MUST reject. Having agreed to all of Hitler's completely unreasonable demands, Poland was attacked by Hitler the next day anyways, because Hitler didn't want a peaceful conquest like he had of Austria or Czechoslovakia, he want to kill Polish people in a real invasion, and was determined to have it even if Poland had offered complete surrender and annexation to Germany.

[Johonny]

32. I think this is the funniest line

As of March 1939, Hitler did not even have a border with Russia. How then could he invade Russia?

I mean Pat does know Hitler was signing treaties with Stalin to split up Poland. So Pat after they each got half of Poland... they'd pretty much would share a border wouldn't they?

[rockymountaindem]

48. That didn't happen until August 23rd

Negotiations for the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, even in the most preliminary sense, did not begin until sometime in late June, 1939.

The real way people thought Germany could invade the USSR was by engineering the conquest of the Baltic States and invading that way, or perhaps through Finland.

[subcomhd]

61. Why would they need a border anyway? To invade that is.

Even though Germany had a border with France, they went through Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg.

Shit the US doesn't have a border with Iraq, but we invaded the hell out of it.

Besides the obvious nazi apologia lurking behind all of this, it's just really bad history and bad logic. I knew B was a racist, but I thought he was smarter (or at least more knowledgeable than this)

[Johonny]

66. Yes the whole argument is of course a strawman

I told you it's a very funny line.

[Libertas1776]

33. I have known

about this "opinion" of Buchanan's for some time, but a nice reminder for us all on the 70th anniversary of the start of that blasted war. Buchanan is a hack. A two bid hack whose ridiculous opinions and historical revisionism deserve no audience. And no, I don't believe MSNBC will fire him, unless it gets enough publicity. He published a book on this crap some time ago and nothing happened. The geniuses at MSNBC still think him a credible pundit. Well, as for the rest of the learned masses, we see him for what he is; a hack and nothing more. What he spews is an affront to the countless millions who died fighting to save the world from Hitler and his like and the millions who perished in his camps. Fuck you Buchanan!

[JonQ]

41. He didn't want war, but he wasn't opposed to it either

he had a set of goals (staying in power, eliminating anyone who didn't care for, conquering europe, and so on).

I think if he could have gotten all that without war he would have (more of a sure thing). And he was quite content to scoop up bits and pieces of europe peacefully as long as chamberlain let him do so. Only when the british refused to give him any more land did he go to war. I don't doubt that if no one had said otherwise and the poles had stepped to the side he would have gladly annexed them without firing a shot, as he had so many times before.

So did he specifically desire war? Not for it's own sake, but his demands were such that it necessitated war at some point.

[Lagomorph]

42. Damn good thing he got one...

He was working on some nasty technology that would have made WWII much harder to deal with.

[WeDidIt]

43. And Pat pulls the Nazi mask completely off

and becomes a Hitler apologist.

Fucking disgusting.

I bet Faux has made him an offer if he can get out of his MSNBC gig.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

45. LESSON: POLITICAL EGOS CAN FUCK UP THE WORLD OR INSPIRE HUMANITY.

I'd like to destroy the media STILL INTO human destruction rather than human inspiration,...but, I can't,...

[ngant17]

46. Buchanan is an American neo-fascist

And I would think he couldn't get away with saying this garbage in Russia, which had a slightly different perception of the Nazis, a regime which caused the death of over 15% of the Soviet population during that time, over 26 million people.

An "alliance with Poland"? Boy, this is the most absurd thing I have ever heard from that bona fide looney toon. Could he please explain why many of the largest Nazi extermination camps were located in Poland? Is this his reasoning behind the "alliance"? Someone ought to lock him up in one of these Nazi concentration camps for a few years and see how much he appreciates those blonde Aryan beasts and their insane ideology.

[Adsos Letter]

49. Well, that certainly explains all that experimenting they did in Spain

:crazy:

[Mrs. Overall]

51. Yep. Adolf and Benito were the precursors of the peace movement, love beads, and flower power.

[TexasObserver]

55. Pat Buchanan, the chuckling Nazi sympathizer

He's like this relic from 50 years ago. Pull his string, and he says outrageous shit and then chuckles about it.

Real fucking funny, Pat.

[G_j]

56. like Bush never wanted a war with Iraq

:banghead:


Pat has ZERO to add to any real discussion.

[newspeak]

58. yeah, sure Pat

Czechoslovakia was one of the first country's hit by Hitler. At the time, the country was perceived as one of the best democracies in the world. Hitler made every excuse to overtake Czechoslovakia-since there were German citizens living within the country, one excuse was that Germans were being discriminated against by the Czechs. Pat is so full of bull--but the truly sad part is that there is going to be those who believe him.

[G_j]

59. the fact that he gets PAID

to spout his insanity on "news" shows is disgusting.

[newspeak]

60. maybe the next thing that comes out of Pat's mouth

will be that Hitler really, really did not want to murder Jews, political dissidents, homosexuals, gypsies, Slavs or his own damn Brown shirts. Yeah, Hitler is so misunderstood.:eyes:

[Morning Dew]

62. Exactly. There were a few bad apples in Hitler's military.

[Prism]

57. Nothing new from him

He has an entire chapter devoted to this subject in his book A Republic, Not An Empire from ten or so years ago. I remember reading and it and being awed at how ahistorical his summation was. He's something of an uber-isolationist and goes to great pains to bend history around his point of view.

It's like he's the last surviving member of the America First movement.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

63. Hitler was sweet and misunderstood

He wanted nothing more than to sit in the beauty of Berchtesgaden with his fraulein and his dog, learning to yodel.

But he liked bread, and they grow wheat in Ukraine. So he felt like he had to conquer the world before starting lessons in yodeling.

:hi:

[Ferret Annica]

65. Pitchfork Pat should of not used his farm tool

to pick his ears. He nicked himself and his brains drooled out onto the floor like so much fascist diarrhea.