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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 07:51 PM
Original message
Principal, teacher say JROTC student lied about a Muslim student.
In the original article about this incident which is posted below, it made it sound like the Muslim girl refused to stand for the pledge to the flag. It got people in an outrage. The girl in JROTC, who is planning on enlisting next year made insults about people and their skin color and terrorism.

The principal suspended the JROTC girl for 5 days, then lowered it to 3...even though she had lied.

From the St. Pete Times:

Officials: Girl Lied About Muslim Not Standing For Pledge

SPRING HILL — The JROTC member at Springstead High School who said she confronted a Muslim student last week because the girl did not stand for the Pledge of Allegiance fabricated that part of the story, school officials said Monday. Heather Lawrence, a 16-year-old junior at the school, has said she was walking by another homeroom Wednesday morning when she saw a girl with the traditional Muslim head scarf sitting during the pledge. Later, Lawrence said she confronted the girl, told her she should stand during the pledge and, according to her own account and a school report, said, "Take that thing off your head and act like you're proud to be an American."

A teacher witnessed the confrontation and Lawrence was suspended for five days for violating the district's policy against bullying and harassment. The suspension has since been reduced to three days.


However it did not happen that way.

But Lawrence could not have seen what she said she saw, Springstead principal Susan Duval said Monday.

"This girl lied," Duval said. "I have confirmed with the homeroom teacher the young lady stood for the pledge."

The girl and her parents also insist she was standing, Duval said.


The Muslim family is hesitant to talk to the media. The girl wearing the hijab was apparently caught off guard in the hallway when the girl made the comments to her. She kept walking. The article says she was reading an article with comments on line and crying.

Ahmed Bedier, president of the Human Rights Council and a personal friend of the family, relayed a comment to the Times.

The story is troublesome because it has stoked negative feelings toward Muslims among some Americans, Bedier said.

"There are some very known anti-Muslim blogs and Web sites and they're taking up this cause of Heather Lawrence," he said. This girl got caught bullying someone else, and to deflect it she's making it about patriotism and the flag.


Here is the original article, one of many making the girl from JROTC practically seem a hero, and making the principal look bad for suspending here. Note the comments the girl made about the Muslim girl and people in the Middle East in general.

Flap over flag, hijab leads to suspension of Hernando student

This is one of the nicer articles.


Heather Lawrence, 16, was suspended from Springstead High School after telling a Muslim student to stand up during the Pledge of Allegiance.

A few bells later, Lawrence was on her way to English class when she saw the girl wearing a hijab in the hallway. Lawrence confronted her. She told her she should stand for the pledge. And, according to Lawrence's own account and a school referral on the incident, said, "Take that thing off your head and act like you're proud to be an American."

A teacher overheard the encounter. Now Lawrence is serving a five-day, out-of-school suspension, and her parents are considering legal action.

"You have someone in the States who is able to enjoy our educational and health care systems, yet it's okay for them to be disrespectful, and it's not okay for my daughter to speak her mind," said Mark Lawrence, Heather's father. "That's her First Amendment right. That's her freedom of speech."


The principal and teacher were angry about it from the start when the teacher overheard what this girl was saying about Muslims in general.

Springstead principal Susan Duval said school officials stand behind the punishment. Heather Lawrence violated the district's policy against bullying and harassment, Duval said. She was disciplined not for telling the girl to stand, but for her other comments — comments that Duval called atrocious.

"It makes me ill," she said. "That is not what this school is about. These students should feel safe and secure here. We may have differences of opinion, but no student should have to tolerate harassment."

After the incident, Lawrence was asked by a school staffer why she confronted the girl. "She began to rant that she was enlisting and was going to Iraq and that basically because the girl looks Middle Eastern, that makes her an enemy because all Iraqis are Middle Eastern," according to the referral signed by assistant principal Stephen Crognale. Lawrence denies she said that or feels that way.

"Terrorists, regardless of who they are, what color they are, are the enemy," she said.



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Kerrytravelers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Anyone else here like I am? Lovin' it when liars get caught.
Remember this charmer?

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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
50. Thanks for that reminder....the best bumper sticker I saw during the last campaign...
....was one spelling out OBAMA using that red, backward B. Classic!
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katanalori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. It is ALL wrong (on "Heather's part)
"She (Heather) was disciplined not for telling the girl to stand, but for her other comments — comments that Duval called atrocious."
OK, let's pretend there were NOT any other comments beyond telling the girl to stand for the pledge. THAT is supposed to be ok? Huh? There is a "law" or a "rule" that a student HAS to stand up for the Pledge? Since when? Why is that part being overlooked/accepted? Just because "Heather" went beyond that and bullied the Muslim student further, that does not mean that telling someone they MUST stand is acceptable behaior either.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Agree, but actually she was suspended for bullying and harassment.
"A teacher witnessed the confrontation and Lawrence was suspended for five days for violating the district's policy against bullying and harassment. The suspension has since been reduced to three days."

It sort of turned into the lying later on.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. quite correct!! In a 1943 case involving Jehovah Witness children - the U.S. Supreme Court
Edited on Tue Sep-01-09 09:28 PM by Douglas Carpenter
ruled in the case of West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette that children cannot be forced to salute the flag or recite the Pledge of Allegiance. That was sixty-six years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette

Even so, the JROTC girl lying - apparently motivated by anti-Muslim bigotry - makes the matter all the worse.

Does this JROTC girl think that America is at war or should be at war against all Muslims?

Is that what people who defend this obnoxious child think?

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Just picture her being in Iraq or Afghanistan after she enlists...
carrying that attitude around with her. Just imagine how that will go over.

:hi:
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. My favorite quote came from that case
Associate Justice Robert H. Jackson, later the chief U.S. prosecutor at the Nuremburg Trials, wrote for the majority opinion, "(A) person gets from a symbol the meaning he puts into it, and what is one man’s comfort and inspiration is another’s jest and scorn.”



:patriot:



BTW — this is how students saluted the flag back then:







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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Ah that salute was also modified after the end of the war
in so many other countries...

People have no idea how common this .... Roman salute... was back then.

(Yes kiddies it goers back to Cicero..."
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
34. yes, I suppose that went out of fashion for some reason
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
40. i don't know where that was taken, but I just called my 80 year old mom: hand over heart 1935.
I would also point out that the boy in that picture is wearing blue jeans, so I find it a bit suspect.
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
52. Wiki sez:
Hawaii, March 1941.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute



Here's another, from May 1942 in Southington, Conn.:







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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. Thanks. I found a similar Time article, but got distracted. Mom says she only remembers hand/heart.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #18
43. Well, here's some support for the photo
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,849356,00.html

Education: Straight-Arm Salute
Monday, Nov. 11, 1940PrintReprintsEmailTwitterLinkedInBuzz up!Facebook
MORE...
Some U. S. patriots have been disturbed by a similarity between U. S. school children's straight-arm salute to their flag and Nazis' salute to their Führer. Last week New York City's School Superintendent Harold George Campbell put a stop to arm raising, directed pupils to salute by holding their fingers at their forehead, soldier-fashion.
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renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #43
64. OT, but how cool to find a 1940 article online!
I didn't know time.com went back that far. Whole new vistas of procrastination stretch ahead of me. Thanks! :)
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #64
78. These are wonderful times we live in. Of course, in the wrong hands....
..... they could change how we see history simply by changing the old articles or adding ones which never existed. I found the writing to be suspiciously contemporary.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
38. I got sent to the Principal in 1972 for not standing during the pledge.
I think the teacher was actually concerned that it would reflect on her if it caught on. We had lots of pseudo hippie kids in my 8th grade class, including me.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
37. Telling her she should stand is OK.
Even telling her that she should act or appear more American would be OK.

Getting in someone's face in a threatening manner (not that I am saying Heather did that) or getting physical about it would be another matter; but people are allowed to have opinions on other people's behavior and those people are allowed to fire back.

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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
51. telling her to stand when she actually stood doesn't seem ok.
calling her hijab unAmerican doesn't seems ok
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. Actually, it's OK to say things other people think are offensive.
Edited on Wed Sep-02-09 01:45 PM by imdjh
That's what the First Amendment is all about. It doesn't mean you'll get a reputation for good manners or intellect, but it really is OK. Only when you physically corner a person, detain them, or threaten them have you crossed the line where government at any level (teachers to cops) should step in.


Look, I was the fat kid at school until tenth grade. I know what it's like to be picked on, but I got my own shots in now and then. I didn't care for being teased or offended from time to time, but I would have been delighted if the school had simply managed to keep physical violence in the unknown.
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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Schools have very strict rules on bullying.
The courts also say that free speech in schools must be weighed against the school's ability to mainatin an environment conducive to learning. No you don't check the 1st amendment at the door, but you get a bunch of qualifiers attached.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #58
87. You are wrong here.
" Only when you physically corner a person, detain them, or threaten them have you crossed the line where government at any level (teachers to cops) should step in."

Nope. One of the most obvious ways people can easily see this is wrong is that it doesn't encompass sexual harassment, only sexual assault. Schools obviously have a responsibility to investigate and stop sexual harassment. The same responsibilities are their whether the harassment is sexual, ethnic, or based on religion. No physical contact or threat of physical contact is required to create a hostile learning/work environment.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. Harassment only comes in a few forms.
Harassment can be a threat.
Harassment can be extortion.
Or, harassment can be true harassment which is a possibly acceptable behavior rendered unacceptable by repetition.

Telling someone you think that their religion or the expression of same is unamerican (or utter bullshit) is not harassment. Asking someone to fuck is not harassment. These things become harassment when force or repetition comes into play. They can also be actionable when there is a disparity of actual power which constitutes an implied threat of benefit or retribution.

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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #58
108. That is so fucking stupid.
And completely false.

I really hope you don't have kids and are never, ever in power to decide anything about what happens in a school.

You're on ignore after this dumbassery.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #37
106. No, it isn't. I stopped "pledging" in High School. No one even noticed.
Now I won't say anything to my kids, but my foreigh-born husband thinks it's crazy to have to do this.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
113. What the hell would be "more American" than wearing clothing that honors her faith?
There's nothing "more American" than the freedom to practice one's religion.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
73. Agree but what I got from the
article is the wannabe 'patriot' fabricated the story about the girl not standing to justify her bullying. He ass needs to be kicked put of the jrotc - isn't that Junior Reserve Officer Training? Isn't there some rule about officer's not lying?
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. I wonder where she learned these attitudes.
Bet she has a wonderful family that raised her like this.
:puke:
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snort Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
47. Notice that in the background is the
picture of a person in uniform and that she is wearing camo. Militarism sucks. I'm betting they are fundies, just a guess.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree
The ROTC kid doesn't get what the military is about. If someones skin is darker than hers they are the enemy......good job pops!! :sarcasm:


The school did the right thing.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. It's JROTC.
Not ROTC.

This stupid jerk isn't quite officer material.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. This retired Master Chief (USN) would not want her even as an enlisted
person in my unit.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. She's not enlisted material either
I don't want liars under my command...

Something about honor...
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
67. If she manages to enlist ...
... and I'm not saying that the military is THAT desperate, then she will likely find herself performing such patriotic duties as KP or burning outhouse barrels with diesel.

Unless the repubs get back in power in which case she will probably be detached to the justice department to screen new and current hires for their loyalty to the replublic of repubs.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
86. agreed!
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Dumb little Nazi Youth girl. n/t
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Alenne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is why there are bullies.
Heather was wrong and so are her parents for defending her disgusting behavior. Obviously her parents didn't do a very good job raising her.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Her parents probably think they did a great job raising her
and they probably think exactly the way she does.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. You really should read some of the comments about it.
From the Hernando section of the Tampa Tribune.

http://www2.hernandotoday.com/content/2009/sep/01/cheers-lawrences/
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Dramarama Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. There have been some disg. comments
on other sites
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. I wonder why they think bullying a young Muslim girl and lying about her is heroic and
patriotic?

Do they think that even an American teenage Muslim high school girl is their enemy who they are fighting?



Cheers to the Lawrences


Hernando Today

Published: September 1, 2009

Springstead Assistant Principal Steve Crognale's concern was the "mental duress" caused upon the student in question.

What about the "mental duress" our troops are suffering both deployed and those returned back home or don't they count?

I'm extremely aware that my comments about these "student cultures" in our country would not be published but for Heather and her dad Mark Lawrence. I say ooh-rah, Semper Fi!

To Heather: Three words - you go girl!

Connie Maxim

Brooksville

http://www2.hernandotoday.com/content/2009/sep/01/cheers-lawrences/






Suspension outrageous

I read with extreme outrage how a student who attends Springstead High School was suspended for being a proud American.

I think that Assistant Principal Steve Crognale should have his act looked into by the school board. His actions reeked of political correctness instead of intelligent thought.

For my money, Heather Lawrence deserves an award, not undue punishment.

.....

William Kingeter

Spring Hill

http://www2.hernandotoday.com/content/2009/sep/01/cheers-lawrences/




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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
79. Obviously those who commented on the suspension didn't read any of the articles describing it...
Edited on Wed Sep-02-09 05:06 PM by George II
...or else they're just blind, narrowminded 'mercans who would take the side of a white, probably Christian, girl rather than the side of one of those terrorist-loving Muslims (aka, to them, of course, an "Islamist"!) regardless of the truth.
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GodlyDemocrat Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. Let it go ... this is a local high school issue, not a national media issue
Edited on Tue Sep-01-09 10:45 PM by GodlyDemocrat
I don't know if a 3 day suspension for lying about someone standing or not standing for the Pledge of Allegiance is warranted under any student code of conduct, though I would concede that racial insults would be grounds for suspension.

Regardless, I don't think dragging any 16 year old in front of the national media for alleged misbehavior is psychologically healthy or needed.

Edit: A 5 day, or even a 3 day suspension is unwarranted. Perhaps, a warning or detention would be called for. This is the problem with zero tolerance. While an act might be wrong, the punishment has to be proportionate. Sunspending a student for 5 days just for speech with no foul language is uncalled for and opens the district to civil liability.
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Gotta disagree with that one
"Take that thing off your head and act like you're proud to be an American."

That language is as foul as it gets. Hatred is far more foul than simple cursing will ever be.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I very much disagree with you. This young lady is heading to the Mideast.
with attitude. She has caused the principal, asst principal and teacher a world of trouble.

Anti muslim blogs are stirring up hate because of her.

Sorry you feel that way, but some areas are so bigoted they are tinderboxes ready to ignite.

We see life in entirely different ways.
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ChadwickHenryWard Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
71. I wonder if she understands what she did wrong.
I mean, besides the lying. I wonder if she understands that her statement was hateful and malicious, and that we're not all just being politically correct. I wonder if she understands what it's like to come to this country as the hated minority du jour, hated for something like your religion or your ethnicity that you've taken for granted your whole life. I wonder if she understand that what she said was offensive to the other girl. She likely thinks she's being persecuted. I hope she doesn't end up stationed somewhere where that attitude will get people killed.
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
81. With any luck, she won't be heading off to the Mideast. Being suspended, even for 3 days.....
....thankfully results in an automatic 60 day suspension of her activity in the JROTC. Hopefully she'll wash out altogether or this will affect any future she may have in the military. I certainly don't want her going to Iraq to represent MY country. We sure don't need another Abu Ghraib, Haditha, or any of the other atrocities perpetrated by "Americans" on the Iraqi people. But seeing her attitude and the attitude of her parents, I'm sure she's just another simmering timebomb waiting for a chance to "kill arabs", enemy or not.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. "...just for speech with no foul language.."
What an offensive statement. Bigotry and bullying are far worse than foul language.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. It is an offensive statement that fails to recognize bigotry.
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
82. Correct........how would one judge these two statements*:


1. She's such a fucking sweetheart

2. She's a ragheaded, American hating, god hating Muslim terrorist and I'm going to beat her up

The first uses "foul language", but in concept isn't offensive. The second does not use "foul language" but is grossly offensive. Foul language isn't the yardstick that should be used to measure offensiveness.

* disclaimer - I know, I'm stretching the point in my two "statements", but I'm too steamed to think of something more clever right now...sorry.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. I'd call racism foul. YMMV.
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. Harassing another student, furthermore, under false pretenses......
......is protected speech? Get a clue.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. It's heart-warming that most of us disagree with you.
Some days, DU makes me proud to be a Democrat. :patriot:
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. that makes me happy too
but every time someone on one of the DU forums post something about President Obama celebrating a Ramadan dinner or extending greetings to American-Muslims and Muslims around the world in honor of Ramadan - there are ALWAYS some people who un-recommend the thread.

Why on earth would anyone un-recommend such a positive thread?

On one of the threads I saw just minutes ago, someone even promoted a link to extremist right-wing anti-Muslim hate material on an otherwise positive thread.

Well, it is still heartwarming that they are a small minority here on DU.
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
83. Yes it is hearwarmng that they are a small minority here on DU...
...(why are they here in the first place???) but it's equally heartwarming that the overwhelming MAJORITY here on DU would still support that old quote:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
29. Fuck that shit.
God damn motherfucking bigotry worse then any fucking swearing. Jesus fucking Christ.
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chasitynola Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
56. Fucking-A
:toast: :patriot:

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
30. Not Very Godly Of You GD !!!
Lawrence's racist, bigoted, and un-American language was DEFINITELY FOUL!

:wtf:
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
33. 'Speech without foul language..'
I would much rather that someone swore at me than spread lies about me.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
35. What About the JROTC Program?

This young woman, regardless of what are her therapeutic needs, should not be a member of our armed forces unless and until her head is screwed on properly.
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
36. You get better with every post!!!
:rofl:
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #13
41. Nice to see you right-wing Xtians sticking together.
Racists always claim it was someone else's fault for making them do it.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
44. Wow
What a fucking stupid thing to post.
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
53. Bullying someone is not psychologically healthy or needed.
Who would Jesus bully?

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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
68. I agree, as suspension is not a good punishment. Not fitting at all.
Little miss junior racist should be made to perform community service like cleaning up the school, and helping to design a school website in diversity, and even, gasp, made to form or join the muslim student association.

It reminds me of a radio documentary on "This American Life" where a wounded soldier returning from Iraq and attending college, decided that because he hated all muslims (due to his traumatic service) that he should challenge his opinion and join the Muslim Student association. This student, although not muslim went on to become president of the association. It's a great story.

Maybe she can be taught that not everyone is a racist narrow minded scumbag like daddy.
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #68
76. Just saw your reply after posting mine below ...
:hi:
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
69. Sorry, dude, as your own RWers have put it in the past so well,
"nits make lice". We need to nip christofascism in the bud.
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
75. "Take that thing off your head" (referring to the hijab, in this case a symbol of
religious identity) is pretty darn bigoted, IMHO, and is not acceptable. At all. Period.
Would you have thought otherwise had this been a Jewish male wearing a yarmulke? That is just one example that I can think of, although others spring to mind.

******
According to the report, things didn't just stop with that statement, however. My understanding is that this young idiot (cursed all too evidently with unfortunate parenting) was not suspended for the deliberate lying, although she could indeed have been ... something about yelling "fire" in a crowded theater comes to mind ... but rather for the bullying and harassment.
Still, rather than suspension, she should perhaps have been required to perform a few hours of community service with a Muslim group or at least to learn about and write something positive about her fellow Muslim students.
This way she becomes a martyr for the abysmally ignorant. And the cycle continues.
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
80. Interesting thoughts.....but it ran deeper than that and it wasn't merely "lying"..
...it was lying to put down another girl different than her because she was taught by her parents that them-there Muslims were bad people. And the lie wasn't a simple teenage lie about something that happened in her class or near her. She went out of her way to say something totally false about what she "saw" as she walked past another classroom and peered into it. It was a malicious lie and was followed up by a public berating by her of the poor unsuspecting Muslim girl.

Unfortunately, it appears that the suspension was merely for lying. My thinking about this is that she should have been suspended for her blatant nasty racist harrangue directed toward that other girl. But sadly that's the "free speech" angle in this whole thing - apparently one can say anything nasty that one wants without punishment, but lying brings on punishment. So, bottom line is she could have screamed at the girl as long as she wanted and there wouldn't be a word said about it. If she hadn't made up that story of what she "saw" in the other classroom, she would have gotten off scot-free.

Sad state of affairs considering this is America in the 21st century.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
107. She should have been expelled.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
20. Color me shocked.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
23. Where do you think the kid learned this crap?
She should be kicked out of JROTC, forced to make a very public apology, and then to wear a headscarf for the rest of the school year.

OK, I made up that last part, but I kind of like it.....................
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bumblebee1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
32. THe coup de grace of all this would be:
when our dear Heather enlists. one of her superiors is a Muslim. Wouldn't that be something?
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
39. When I was in JROTC, such an act would result in expulsion from the program
"We will not lie, cheat, or steal, nor tolerate any among us who do."

We took the honor code seriously.
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carlyhippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
91. In my kid's JROTC program this would have not been tolerated
Edited on Wed Sep-02-09 10:21 PM by carlyhippy
the honor code is still there. The JROTC program is still a good program.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
42. Muslims are not evil.
But it seems that the propaganda over the last 8 years has led many to believe that they are.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
45. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
46. Look how their house is decorated - these are clearly racist republican ignorant triumphalist trash
and I'm sure they go to either to a mega-church with a conservative shitstain uneducated pastor, or a small non-denomination church with a shitstan uneducated pastor.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
48. Here is an ugly example of what she unleashed.
It is why I posted about it. It has started a real backlash in that conservative area of Florida.

Just the link.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=33357

I would call this a site that the SPLC might be interested in watching because of the hate.

Lies matter.

In the latest article I read today...the JROTC girl never left her own classroom according to her own teacher. That's two teachers and one principal...and the hating still goes on.
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
49. Good for the school administration and principal....
...although the stories don't say specifically if the muslim girl was native born or an immigrant, it's a pity that someone "different" in this country makes a better American than lily-white conservative "Americans".

Let's hope this incident is a setback toward her military career, especially if she wants to go to Iraq. This country doesn't need people like her representing America - we had enough of the likes of her in Haditha and working for Blackwater.

Sadly, though she will wind up apologizing, one wonders if it will be truly genuine or just to take the heat off her?
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
54. did they do away with the jrotc honour code?
and if so -- when?
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Libertas1776 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
55. This
little brat should never be within 100 yards of a uniform. She lied and is a bigot; isn't there some kind of honor code she has broken. And what if the other girl\ didn't stand for the pledge? (Even though she actually did, regardless of what this ROTC wannabe skank may say) It is her damn right to not have to stand up and say the pledge, as an above poster pointed out, and was ruled as such by the Supreme Court over 6 decades ago.

"Terrorists, regardless of who they are, what color they are, are the enemy" You want to know who the real enemy is? YOU ARE, you lying, bigoted, divisive lowly disgrace for a human being. You are the epitome of everything that is wrong with this country. You are a disgrace and I hope to good god you are never given the privilege of wearing a uniform.
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chasitynola Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
57. Once again, madfloridian
thank you for your posts...

It is amazing what utter nonsense comes out of my homestate. Incredible that most of the material for COPS and other 'reality tv' come out of Florida.
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Althaia Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
61. My school district has a sizeable percentage of muslim Somali immigrants.
I've worked in my district for 7 years, and I've come to some understanding about their culture and how they feel about wearing the hijab. Asking a Muslim girl to remove their hijab is equivalent to asking a teen to strip naked in front of their class. There is that much shame associated with being seen without it.

Also, hijab-wearing Muslim girls are an easy, vulnerable target for bullies. They are already oppressed and bullied by the boys (I can't count the times I've seen girls in tears after a boy said terrible, obscene things to them - the boys make a sport of it), and the school staff needs to be aware of this and prevent any bullying as much as possible.
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maxintexas Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
62. I second that...
Good catch, MadFlo.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. Hi Max...
Good to see you here.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
63. I get the feeling that Eric Prince will be recruiting her for his outfit. This
makes me sick. As a German- American who had uncles in the US Army fighting Germany and Japan I detest her attitude. We were treated that way if we dared to speak German. She is small minded and it is too bad that our military will even accept her.
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seattle_blue Donating Member (299 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
65. These people kill me.
I am willing to bet that she, and her family, are consumers of the "fair and balanced network."
Also, even if what she said was true, that the girl would not stand......That would not give her license to make racist remarks to the other girl. Also, she has yet to even enlist, making it simply impossible for her to know if she is going to Iraq or not. She sounds like an outright born liar.
I am sure the fox noise propagandists are drumming up a vigorous defense on her behalf......
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
70. I applaud the teacher & principal that got to the truth of this matter. The
JROTC girl doesn't deserve to wear a uniform.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Yes,I am proud of the principal for standing up firmly.
Edited on Wed Sep-02-09 05:03 PM by madfloridian
:hi:
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
72. a few years from now, she'll be one of Fox News' regular commentators...
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
77. Here is a comment from the St. Pete Times article supporting the little liar:
"I THINK SHE SHOULD AT LEASE STAND. SHE IS OVER HERE GETTING PROBABLY MORE BENFITS THAN WE ARE. SHE DON'T LIKE IT GO HOME WHERE SHE BELONGS.HER FAMILY WANTED TO COME HERE WE DIDN'T ASK FOR THEM TO COME HERE" says LARRY from PEKIN.

Hey Larry, "at lease" learn to speak your own country's language before you start criticizing others who you imagine (in your pointy little head) are getting more "benfits" than you.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #77
90. So only educated people are entitled to an opinion?
This is what mirrors are for.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #90
92. No, Larry is entitled to his opinion, and I am entitled to criticize that opinion.
It's called free speech and people who use that freedom to show their ignorance and bigotry don't deserve a free pass on the critical opinions of others.



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GrantDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
84. From the comments...
Edited on Wed Sep-02-09 06:00 PM by GrantDem
The Right Stuff says...
September 1, 2009 6:51:40 am
They should not allow headscarves in the classrooms.

They obviously cause a distraction to learning.



Hey idiot... They are not "headscarves" they are hijabs. I love the way these assbags advocate religious discrimination unless it's against the ever so oppressed Christians. Secondly, the only distraction is the little bigot that should never be allowed in the U.S. Military, enlisted or officer.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. headscarves, curtain, cover, veil, whatever
Secondly, the only distraction is the little bigot that should never be allowed in the U.S. Military, enlisted or officer.

It's not the government's right or duty to demand a singular world view from the military personnel.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #89
93. I admire your courage and consistency
in standing up for the rights of bigots both within the classroom and the military. It's heartwarming.

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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #93
95. The ACLU and I agree on a lot, not every case, but most by far.
You do not have the right to float through life without being challenged or offended whether you are a Muslim, a Nazi, totally type O, or a born-again Druid.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #95
99. If this had been a young teenage orthodox Jewish child who was bullied would you have a problem
Edited on Thu Sep-03-09 11:22 AM by Douglas Carpenter
with it? If it became a regular habit at high schools across the country to harass Orthodox Jewish high school children and intimidate orthodox Jewish kids with comments about their differences and were regularly accused of being un-American at high schools across the country would you have a problem with it? If there was then a blitz of people defending the harassment and intimidation of orthodox Jewish students and accusing them of being un-American, would you have a problem with it?

Perhaps Amish or Mennonite high school children, would that concern you?
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. When I was in high school, a yarmulke meant you were a dork.
Starting about ninth grade, some of the Jewish guys started wearing yarmulkes. It's wasn't that big a deal, but it wasn't exactly a ticket to popularity. By tenth grade they had pretty much stopped, except for a couple of the honors classes guys that no one saw as existing anyway.

My school was about 50% Jewish. Jews for Jesus was big at the time, and so was Trancendental Meditation, Mahareeshi Mahesh Yogi, Guru Maharaji, etc... And yes, we let our opinions on that be known. Oddly, it led to discussions rather than the end of the world.
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PSzymeczek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #99
101. Mennonite high school girls
Edited on Thu Sep-03-09 05:37 PM by PSzymeczek
don't wear the prayer cap except to church. There are no Amish or Old Order Mennonites in high school. Those are the only groups that wear the prayer cap all the time. Amish/OOM have their own schools, and education ends at 8th Grade.
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GrantDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #89
94. It is however...
The military's duty to prevent extremist bigots, such this little girl, from getting anywhere near weapons and the people she hates and carrying out her little crusade like fantasy in the name of the United States.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #94
97. Since when?
Seriously. Do you think the Army weeded out those who thought of the Vietnamese and any other of their race as a Yellow Menace or "little brown monkeys" or gooks?
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GrantDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #97
98. Noamnety is correct
You are consistant in your defense of bigotry. The fact that you seem to think it is okay for people that hold these beliefs to serve in the military is disturbing.

Moreover, recent efforts to weed out these extremists is well documented.

http://www.google.com/m/search?oe=UTF-8&client=safari&q=military+efforts+to+weed+out+racists&hl=en&start=0&sa=N
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #98
102. I am consistent in my defense of speech.
And if you aren't, then you aren't really a First Amendment supporter, or much of an American.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. bullying children because of their ethnic/religious background is hardly a free speech issue
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 01:46 AM by Douglas Carpenter
If a high school student told a gay school teacher, "go fuck yourself you sodomite " almost everyone would agree there was a disciplinary issue involved - not a free speech issue.

If a high school student told an African-American school teacher, "why don't you go back to African - Sambo." Almost everyone would agree there was a disciplinary issue involved - not a free speech issue.

The same goes for bullying children from minority backgrounds and lying about them.

I don't know what the ACLU position is on this specific issue. But, I doubt that they would defend bullying and intimidating ethnic-religious minority children at school as protected, first Amendment free speech.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. This isn't students mouthing off to teachers. It's between equals.
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 10:58 AM by imdjh
But we have had incidents here in Florida of black students making racist and aggressive remarks to white teachers and while the school system has to deal with that (in their namby pamby way) as a disciplinary issue, it's because it's defiant behavior challenging the order of the classroom and the school as well as the authority of those in charge. Not the same thing at all as one student calling another student names.

And for the record, I have no problem with a gay student telling a Mormon or BAC that those religions are racist, sexist, and homophobic, so why would I be extra sensitive to Islam, Judaism, or mainstream Christianity? You have to start somewhere.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #89
110. It's illegal for bigots to serve in the military
Sorry, nobody ahs a right to serve.
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TlalocW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-02-09 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
85. First, meet the future Lynndie England if she gets in
Second - That is the dull stare of a guernsey cow if I've ever seen one. "Don't get why people be upset with me... I didn't do nothin' to no one anyhow."

TlalocW
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #85
96. "Dull stare of a guernsey cow."
:rofl:
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #85
109. +1 with a LOL.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
105. And THESE people cry about indoctrination from Obama's speech?
IMO, the pledge is the ultimate indoctrination. People from other countries think it's crazy that we require schoolkids to do this. I stopped doing it in high school. No one said anything.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #105
111. Yes, basically the same who don't want the president speaking to their kids
And there are far more in some areas of Florida than many will admit.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
112. "You take that cross off your neck and act like you're proud to be American"
Sounds any better?
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