Wow, I cant stop shaking........

[fNord]

In most of the post I have made in the two and a half years that I have been at DU, I have been jovial and absurd. But in this post, I could not be more serious. I would just like it if anyone could help me calm down, as I am trembling right now. Please, all that respond, be gentile, as I have never shared something this personal with DU before.


Early January, I opted not to join the army after applying in early September.. This decision was devastating to my family, all of whom are military/ex-military.

my Father is a retired AF Colonel, who is currently working as a Diplomat for NATO. They haven't spoken to me since, with the exception of my sister(AF Sargent), who just had to undergo major surgery. My uncle,(retired Navy) just sent me an e-mail asking if I wanted the Obama paraphernalia that we collected wile campaigning together last year.

This was my response: (Names have been removed)




Yes, I would like these things. But more importantly, I would like a continued relationship with you.

I need time....as I'm sure you do. I haven't been able to start a dialog with anyone in the family except ---- and ----, and sadly, this is only because of ----'s resent medical problems. I want to, but I truly don't know what to say. I never wanted to hurt anyone, but I had to follow my heart. And my heart told me that enlisting was wrong. I tried to defy what I felt, tried to tell myself that it was just jitters about a lifestyle change, or maybe just flat out cowardice. But it wasn't. What I did WAS the right choice for ME. I admit, a little more tact would have been better, and I am sorry that I got the entire family's hope up that I would join the Army, even my own, but I couldn't do it. Dad himself told me "maybe the reason that it is taking so long is that God is sending you a message." I doubt this is the message that Dad was thinking of, but I know in my heart that it was the right choice. Walking out on the Army, and therefore my entire family, was the single hardest, scariest, and most courageous thing I have ever done. And I have looked down the barrel of a gun and told the man holding it to go fuck himself, because I was not giving him the last 12 dollars I had to my name. That was a sunny day compared to telling Dad I was bailing, and then listing to him cuss me out for two hours. I love my Father, and I would really like his approval. But not at the expense of my soul. I do not condemn him, or ----, or you for that mater, because I know that you were following your own path. In fact, I applaud you for it. But I have to follow my own path, too, and the military is not a part of it. You yourself told me 1001 reasons why I would not fit in the Army. Believe me, I had ten times that amount already lodged in the back of my mind. I did want it. I did. But it turns out that the reason, the ONLY reason i wanted it, was to finally be accepted by my family. It wasn't money, or stability, on any of the the wonderful things the military lifestyle promised, but just so that my Mom and Dad would no longer think of me with tears of shame in there eyes. But sadly, I realized that if that was the only thing that would make my family respect me, than none of you would truly respect ME. None of you would truly KNOW me. And I cant live a bold faced lie just so those closest to me would love and respect what I was pretending to be. Nothing would have changed. And that is what I was/am so hurt about. That's what kills me inside. It seems that you don't love me, respect me, and hell, none of you even like me. I understand why, I mean I'm nothing like any of you. I am a bad seed in your eyes, the black sheep of the ---- Family. But I am not A bad person. I have never raped anybody, never killed anybody, and aside from not living up to your "rocket scientist" expectations, I have never really hurt anybody either.

I love you ----, as I love all my family. and I would like to be involved in your life again. I would also like All of you to respect me for who and what I am, but if any or all of you are unwilling or able to give me this, it is something I will have to accept, and something you will have to square with in your own conscience some day.

With unyielding love,
------ ------ ------

[ZombieHorde]

1. I am unwise in the ways of family bounds, but I am kicking and Recing your thread.

[vanbean]

109. Hell, if it is giving you that much grief, go ahead and join for a few years.

[ZombieHorde]

118. What is "it" and what are you suggesting I join for a few years?

[onlyadream]

120. What???? Why???

This is something this person DOES NOT want to do. You think compromising themsevles for acceptance is the way to go? Grow a spine!
Kudos to the OP!!! Stand for what you believe in!! I hope your family will accept you for YOU, and nothing else!

[cui bono]

131. Harry? Is that you Senator Reid?

What??? S/he should sacrifice their own identity and become someone else just to please others? And get sent to Afghanistan and possibly die? Or come home as a disabled vet?

Wow. I so totally disagree with you.

The most important thing a person can do is be true to themselves. The rest will fall into place. imho.

[DissedByBush]

138. You did the right thing

You shouldn't join if you are not 100% sure of your conviction to do so.

It's not fair to you and it's not fair to the Army.

Tell him that.

We have the best Army in the world largely because it is all volunteer. Being hounded into it doesn't qualify as volunteer.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. I am sorry you are undergoing this pain

Hubby is a USN Chief Retired and I did my time as it were somewhere else.

The military, and they should know this, is NOT for everyone.

You chose to remain a civilian. As much as it hurts, they seem to have issues with that.

I am sorry. They need to get over themselves and realize that you did not want to join the fraternity. and that it is time they respect that decision.

If you decide to join later on it should be YOUR decision, not pressured by a family tradition.

[cliffordu]

3. K&R.

Families are the hardest fucking thing in the world if you don't go with the plan....

[annm4peace]

4. I hope it gets better for you. Vets for Peace would applaud you

they would hug you and support you and your decision.

You give us hope

[Tangerine LaBamba]

5. Oh, fNord -

Conditional love isn't any kind of love at all.

Your letter is one of the saddest things I've ever seen, and I am so sorry for you. If your family is that unforgiving, that intolerant, that demanding, you will have to make your way without them. They surely do not have your best interests at heart, nor do they respect you.

They will "love" you if you join the Army?

This is harsh, but you're better off without them.

I know you'll be all right, and I applaud you for having the courage of your convictions. Among right-minded people, that earns you respect and affection. Among controlling neurotics, it gets you shunned.

Make your life without them, and maybe someday, one of them will snap out of it and apologize, and then you'll be able to begin again.

Good luck. You did the right thing, and good for you..............................

[fNord]

8. The worst part of this is.....

My father is one of the most caring, loving, open minded people I have ever Had the privilege of meeting. He has a genuine concern and empathy for people. He is also incredibly smart. When i was a kid, our late night talks help me to understand the world. He is also deeply christian. Not the evangelical type, or one that constantly wanes of the rapture or the lake of fire, but one who was concerned with the teachings. He was very big on things like compassion, love, and FORGIVENESS.

That is why this hurts so bad

[Tangerine LaBamba]

19. It sounds like there's more to the story -

do you know of anything else that's eating at them? Something you maybe didn't even notice?

I do not come from a military family, but I find it impossible to understand that a child would be demonized and shunned because he didn't want to enlist in the Army.....................

[fNord]

20. they think I never decided what to do with my life.....

never found a direction....and there right.

But THAT direction was not on my map, no matter how much they, or even I wanted it to be.

They have been pushing this idea on me since I was 14.

oh, and in response to other questions, I am in my upper twenty's

[Tangerine LaBamba]

23. You are responsible only for yourself -

and if they don't like your choices, that's unfortunate.

Sometimes friends are better family than family.

You're doing fine, and you'll do even better. But, in the meantime, I know it hurts, and I am sorry, very, very sorry.....................

[lildreamer316]

134. Hey fNord....

I can relate a bit.

My family was very academic-oriented, and both my parents were the first in their families (here in the South) to go to college (although not the last,thank goodness). I was brought up with those kind of values.

So you can imagine what kind of discord it caused when I decided to not finish college, and a year later, I became an exotic entertainer (stripper).

I was written out of my mother's will, and she went to her grave thinking that the profession was one of vice, drugs and whores..and that it meant that I was squandering my life and my intelligence.

Without going into a long diatribe; I find myself in my mid-30s now; and very happy with the way my life has gone so far. It has not been the most secure; but I have done what I thought was right and followed my own path. I made my own family and am very happy. My extended family has accepted what I (and husband, for he is a dj in the industry) do and we get along just fine.

I know this is painful, but I applaud you for making the decision that was right for you. Hold the line and stay the course...they will probably come around. If they don't; make your own family of friends.

:hug:

[1monster]

121. fNord, it is the nature of parents to dream dreams for their children and make plans for them. When

the child in question grows up and rejects the dreams and plans of the parents, the parents often mistakenly take it as rejection of themselves and they become hurt and angry. They they also mistakenly quite often retaliate by withdrawing their love, affection, and support from that grown child.

It is a difficult time for both of you. You are understandably devastated by their repudiaton of your choice, and seemingly of you.

They are not thinking very clearly right now and are reacting accordingly. They believe that they know what is best for you and they fear that by refusing to join the military you are ruining your life. It may be that they are trying a little "tough love" on you.

Eventually, things will work out, but it will take some time and patience.

First, find the direction that is right for you and pursue it as diligently as you can. Form supportive friendships from others who will be there for you when you need them because you will make mistakes along the way. EVERYBODY does.

Don't let anyone convince you that mistakes made are because you didn't fall in with their plans for you. Mistakes are the price we pay for experience and experience is what leads to success.

In the meantime, write your family; tell them you love them, but that you must follow the beat of your own drummer. Periodically, let them know what you are doing and how you are doing.

But don't beg for their favor. Stand on your own two feet and make it on your own. Eventually, they will come to respect you for going it and making it without help. Eventually, they will accept that you are an adult and capable of thinking for yourself.

edit: typos

[lildreamer316]

135. +1; could not agree more. n/t

[wolfgangmo]

129. Time heals all wounds.

Remain positive and remain open to dialog. Time will heal this.

Above all don't give up. You love your family and assuming that they love you, will allow all of you to find your way back to each other.

[M0rpheus]

6. You did the right thing..

If the military was not for you, then it wasn't for you.
If your family can't understand that and cannot get past it, well... What can you do?

It's much better to take the stand you've taken rather than live a lie for everyone but yourself.

The ball is in their court. All you can do is keep moving forward.

[Samantha]

7. I only read down halfway before I had to stop and respond

I am not sure of your age, but I am sure of the advice I am about to give you.

People who live the life their parents have set in place for them are people who when reaching middle-age have a mid-life crisis. I know this because I married such a man. I have seen it over and over in many of the people with whom I went to high school. It was a very large graduating class.

Those of us who have lived to a ripe age and maintain a sense of self-confidence, worth and contentment without suffering a mid-life crisis are those of us who are independent thinkers who found out early in life who we were and lived our lives guided by our own conscience. I hope you too can be one of us.

I cannot remember which wise philosopher said "Know thyself" but it is something I was taught, believe it or not, in the third grade in a classroom in Knoxville, Tennessee. Turned out to be the most valuable advice I have been given in life. Sounds like you know yourself and might turn your course around to be one that will suit you the rest of your life. You can do this without yielding to the advice of well-meaning, even loving people, who do not know you like you know yourself.

Good luck to you as you make your way.

Sam

PS Your family will get over it.

[voc]

17. +1

[Juche]

33. This

That was a good post. If you do something you don't identify with, it will eventually catch up with you. Doing something you don't like because you crave the conditional acceptance of other people is going to catch you sooner or later.

No idea what to tell you about your family though. Do they have an idea how badly this issue hurts you?

[DeschutesRiver]

74. Another +1

I remember hitting this point with my own mother over an issue when I was younger. After a lot of "stuff" and discussion and anger and getting ostracized for not toeing their line, I made a call and tried again. Didn't work. And I told my mom that only one of us was going to cry and be miserable because they didn't get their way on this issue. And that it was my life, my destiny, and that she was going to be the one to cry, not me. I was going to do X, nothing illegal, immoral or untoward, just something she didn't want me to do.

I wasn't going to live my life as she dictated in order to make her happy - I chose to live it as I saw fit. Yep, this ultimately was one of many factors that lead to a permanent estrangement. And my life became better than it ever could have, had I done nothing but live it her way in order to keep the peace.

I wish I'd had real parents who didn't force their choices onto their offspring by using these conditional love techniques - I'd give anything to have real parents, or at least not to have known that if I didn't do X as they demanded, they were completely fine with ostracizing me forever. That is one of the saddest days when you see that clearly. But who you are born to is random, and you can choose to find those who are not into being conditional in exchange for the gift of having a close relationship with them.

Good luck - I know how hurtful this is, and I do hope you can turn it around. But know that if you can't, it isn't the end of the world, it is the beginning of you being fully you. There is simply no greater gift in life than that.

[AspenRose]

123. "To thine own self be true"

Yep.

[jhrobbins]

148. I'm not sure who said 'Know thyself', but I think the quote that you might be

referring to is from the bard himself. He said (in Hamlet through Ophelia's father whose name escapes me at the moment), "to thine own self be true and it follows as night the day, thous canst not be false to any man"(that's sorta the way it goes. Pretty smart guy, old Willy - and what was true 500+ years ago is still true today

[Samantha]

149. Did a google and found this

"Know Thyself," was the motto carved in stone on the entrance of the school founded by Greek Philosopher Plato."

I am familiar with the phrase you quote, and it is always good to be reminded of that as well, but the phrase I was taught was simply "know thyself" and it was from a Greek philosopher.

Here's a link:

http://www.mindpub.com/art409.htm

But another site says there are at least six contenders for having authored that phrase:

"The aphorism has been attributed to at least six ancient Greek sages:

* Chilon of Sparta (Chilon I 63, 25)
* Heraclitus
* Pythagoras
* Socrates
* Solon of Athens
* Thales of Miletus"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_thyself

But regardless who said it, it is key to finding one's peace in life, and your phrase as well is one the author of this thread hopefully too will take to heart.

Sam

[patrice]

9. This is Courage AND Love. nt

[southernyankeebelle]

10. Everyone makes their own decision in life. I come from a family of

military family. I wanted to join when I was a young lady but my dad said hell no. I told him he spent over 22 yrs in the Air Force why couldn't I. No daughter of mine in going in the military. I am glad I didn't years later. My husband was an adopted child and brought here to the United States. My husband wasn't a fishing and hunting type of guy. His dad was. His dad was a grunt for over 22 years in the army. My husband decided to go in the army because I think he wanted to please his dad. He ended up staying over 20 yrs too. The point is it will be you that has to do the job. If you don't have your heart into than you made the right decision for you. Don't let anyone pressure you. They will come around. If they don't than I feel sorry for them. Be proud of yourself against this kind of pressure. Your father if he really loves you will get over it. For now I would leave it alone and let it sink in. You have to live your life not the life your parent want you to live.

[dgibby]

11. I'm retired Navy,

and I applaud you for having the courage of your convictions and knowing enough about yourself to stop from making a big mistake.

Leaving the door open for reconciliation is, I believe, a good decision, as long as you can stay true to yourself.

As for your family, they have a lot to learn about unconditional love, and perhaps this will be their opportunity to grow in spirit. Hopefully, they'll take the right path.

Take care of yourself, and know that this is their problem, not yours. Also, remember that your DU "family" is here for you 24/7 if you need someone to lean on.:hug: :yourock:

[fNord]

22. Thank you......

that really means alot to me right now :hug:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

25. You've got family,

and I'm very proud of be a member of your family, fNord........................

[NoSheep]

94. I'd like to second that. I am very proud, as well, to call you a member of my human family.

I had to write mine off many years ago. If it comes to that, you will be much better for it in the long run. I admire your willingness to leave the door open but please, always love yourself first or you can never love another. fNord, I visit this board all the time. If you ever need to talk for a bit, just pm me and I'll be happy to "hear" what you have to say and offer my shoulder and whatever consolation I can give you. :hug: :grouphug:

[dotymed]

59. I WAS AN "ARMY BRAT" ALSO

My Father(like his) was a "lifer." When I was in
college, I took ROTC(I enjoyed the mountaineering, and rifle
marksmanship,etc..) but when it came time to sign that paper
and accept their scholarship, I refused. My Father (at the
time) was upset too. I found a trade (even though I earned a
B.S.) that I really enjoyed, and joined the Union. My Father
finally became a "Liberal" and was glad that I
didn't join the Army. I made good money as a Union carpenter
and enjoyed the work. It usually works out in the end. Protect
yourself though, go Union. Good Luck.

[texanshatingbush]

151. "Leaving the door open for reconciliation".......

is GREAT advice. Always do the "right thing" there, too, so that you have no regrets. You should be able, at any time, to say honestly to yourself: I always tried to keep the door open to my family.

So continue your family's traditions with regard to birthdays, mother's day, anniversaries, etc.

If YOU should stop those traditions, then (alas) they will probably use it a one more stick with which to bludgeon your spirit.

That's what I do.....my family has not spoken to me (or sent me birthday cards, etc) for 1-1/2 years (because I support Obama), but I need to know that I have not been the one to shut the door, so I stay in touch as best I can. I have to send emails and snail mail, however, because they will neither answer my phone calls nor return my calls.

Families can be strange sometimes, and sometimes you just have to accept it and get on with your life.

Courage and love to you......

[tabatha]

12. I wish people would realize that as an adult

people should be allowed to make their own choices, and that whatever they decide, should be respected. That is the true meaning of freedom.

I feel and understand your pain. I know you will be stronger for it. Just do your best at what you have chosen, and let the chips fall where they may.

[RandySF]

13. I never served in the military

but if I my son chooses to do so, I will wish him God's Speed. His mother is a different story, but I think she will manage. The point is the decision will be his and his alone. I wish every parent followed this.

[Rhiannon12866]

14. K&R. No wonder you're shaking, but kudos to you.

I'm not surprised that you are overwhelmed by emotion. You don't say how old you are, but I'm guessing you're young, though if you're old enough to join the Army, you're old enough to make your own decisions.

Obviously, I applaud your decision. I honor the patriotism and courage of our troops, but those who are in harm's way right now were sent there based on lies, the last thing that these brave folks deserve from their government. There have been times when it was reasonable and even necessary to join up, starting with the Revolution, but this is not one of them.

If you believe, as I do, that it's long past time to bring our troops home, you certainly don't have to apologize for your decision. Any loving family who is watching the news would certainly not want to see a beloved family member enter that deadly mess. They need to come home and you need to stay here...

My heart goes out to you for having to face such a difficult decision, especially when confronted with such terrible pressure. And for the unreasonable family rift that confronts you.

My Dad had certain hopes for me, but he never reacted this strongly when I went in a different direction. If they love you, they need to respect your decision. Everyone is different and it's your right to hold different beliefs.

If you can, share your OP with them, starting with whoever is easiest to approach. Maybe he or she can talk to the others, and so on. Share the news with them, starting with the record casualty rates in Afghanistan. Ask if anyone knows why we're there. You have the knowledge and the tools.

I wish you all the best, my friend, and applaud the courage you've shown in thinking for yourself and for doing what you know is right.

Rhiannon :hug:

[ljm2002]

15. Sounds like this has been going for a few months...

...first of all, you made the correct choice for yourself and you have every right to do so. Second, your family is downright mean to cut you off like that. Third, these things usually do work themselves out. It would not surprise me if the communication from your uncle was a feeler, maybe even with the knowledge of your mom or dad, who knows. I'm glad at least your sister is still speaking to you, even if there are other factors at play.

Hang in there, I predict you will be back in communication with most of your family within another few months at most. If so, here's hoping it's on your terms.

Families can be weird pressure cookers. Not only are there family traditions, like the one you're bucking; but also, families expect each other to continue playing the familiar roles. Whenever someone busts out of their proscribed boundaries, there is a backlash. Standard family dynamic. But, it sounds like you had a caring and loving upbringing, so in spite of the current difficulties, that is why I tend to believe that communications will be reestablished.

Oh and by the way, good for you for standing up for yourself and refusing to be railroaded into something that is not for you.

[fNord]

29. Yes it has.......

the only communication between us was when I told the where I had moved to after baling, and the response was something to the effect of "glad to here your alive" and that was an e-mail.

I only spoke to my sister a month ago, and that was because she was frightened, going into surgery. She had a corrective procedure, and will soon need a hysterectomy. I suppose grasping your mortality and finality helps you get over petty disagreements, but I don't wish my parents to have to go through something similar before they want to talk to me again.

I hope your right, and soon they will come around to the idea that this is the decision I have made for myself.

[nini]

16. Have you sent something similar to your immediate family?

If not - you should.


I am guessing but maybe the email from your uncle was him trying to reach out to you a bit. Did he really need to know if you wanted that stuff? If he really didn't give a damn about you he wouldn't have bothered.

I am a bit baffled why your Christian father seems to have missed the unconditional love part of the teachings he believes in. Would talking to his minister help?

I feel for you and I would hope they'll see they are not being fair to you and to let their disappointment go.

Good Luck and hopefully your uncle will be the connection you need to get this nightmare behind you.

[rhett o rick]

18. Bless you for your bravery. You did what had to be done. Sounds like someone should have done it

years ago. It may be tough but it will be good for the whole family.

[bkkyosemite]

21. It was a very good email and the truth. It they cannot take the truth and still love you then they

are not worth you giving them your energy or time. I am serious I am 63 seen a lot and let me tell you you did good!

[Gregorian]

24. This is an act of bravery. I applaud you.

There is very little doubt that in short time you will feel relief like you've never felt before. Breaking the bonds of expectation by family is extremely difficult. My mother is the youngest of 11 children. They are essentially all republican and religious. That's religious in quotes. More like going through the motions. She is the only one who broke away and did what she felt was right. She's a staunch liberal. She's 81, so this happened a long time ago when such things just didn't happen.

You are your own person. You alone make your decisions. That's how it works. You can be polite, and do what others expect of you, but that can lead to all kinds of dreadful things. Including death by war. Or killing by war, for example.

There are far more productive things to do than involve oneself in the military. I was preparing to be a consciencious objector during Vietnam. I will not pick up a gun against another human being. Period. Fuck the notion of self defense. Look at how much money we spend on defense. It is killing the planet.

All I can say is good for you. Bravo!

I find it all too easy to judge people and make them wrong for something I don't approve of. That's wrong of me. And I would advise you to let people be who they are without mistreating them. Be an example. You'll be the winner.

Keep your relationships. Don't burn them.

You've made a very big improvement in your life, if I may say so.

[fNord]

41. Thank you......

I hope that you are right.

it took me two hours to write that one e-mail, my hands were shaking so bad. It felt like I was writing a manifesto. I hope my uncle decides to send it to my parents, as I think I spent my courage sending it to him.

[Maru Kitteh]

26. They need some time to grieve for the version of you that died when you walked out.

The version of you in their heads that was going to carry on the family tradition. Safe. Predictable. Familiar.

Give them some time.

I wish all of you well.

[ohheckyeah]

27. I deeply sympathize and empathize with what you are

going through.

I have always been the black sheep of the family and 11 years ago I did something that my family found so outrageous they were furious. I won't go in to details except to say it was over a divorce and a remarriage. They gave me a hard time and I ignored it. I was polite, I sent birthday cards and called on the appropriate holidays and I lived my life. I had set myself free from their judgment with my actions and I became a happy, productive, and pretty nice person. I was older than you, by the way, when I finally found my way in life.

To make a long story short, the more I quietly refused to accept their condemnation and was happy in my marriage and life, the more they came around. The brother who was never going to speak to me again and didn't like my husband now loves to come to our house to watch a football game, play poker or just hang out. He even lived with us for a couple of months while waiting for his house to be ready. My mom and dad who were so mad at me, call me every day. I go out with my mom almost weekly and they come to my house a couple of times a month. Both of my younger sisters and I are close and the only one who hasn't really accepted me is an older sister who had never forgiven me for being born, so that doesn't count.

Find what makes you happy. Live your life. Be polite and stay in touch in some fashion and I bet they come around. Once they see they can't change you, bully you or push you into their mold they, too will be free - and that's what you've done for yourself, you set yourself free to be you.

Congratulations!

[fNord]

42. thank you....

that is very uplifting. I have carried this inside since January, and it feels good to hear that I am not alone, and that it does get better. I may not agree with my family, but I do love them, and being shut out of there lives over a personal decision really hurts. its alot easier to be patient when there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel.......

[ohheckyeah]

45. My guess would be that like my family they are

frightened for you and your future and a bit frightened because they don't quite understand you. Those of us who walk outside the boundaries the others set are always a bit frightening and frustrating to them. If they didn't love you they wouldn't be upset, but there is probably some manipulation and payback tactics going on. When you show them you can be manipulated and you won't acknowledge you are being punished I bet they come around. Stand your ground. You have friends here to help you through. Just remember, they do love you even if they aren't showing it right now.

You were wise to take a stand now. I waited until I was 43 and there were a lot of years of pain and depression because I kept caving in to their pressure. Reading your post made me think back and see how far things have come from that dark time. I'm so happy now in my life and they even respect the life I have built.

[GardeningGal]

28. You need to live your truth.

Sounds like you've figured that out, now just continue to do so. This hit home for me for different reasons but the end result is that you need to be yourself. More power to you for figuring this out early in your life.

If your family can't/won't accept you and your decisions, then go out and make a new family of friends. Best of luck to you.

[mullard12ax7]

30. Good decision says me, relative of a disabled veteran

Look at someone who's crippled for life and ask yourself if you'd be willing to live that life for whatever warring causes there are now.

[fNord]

35. The Idea of being crippled, blinded, or even killed.....

doesn't bother me nearly as much as killing for what I consider no good reason.

I, unlike my father, am not a Christian, though I did learn alot from reading the Bible. I also learned alot from reading the Koran, the works of Buddha, Lao Tzu, and even Malaclypse the Younger, whose words I finally accepted as my "religion." Though my father wasn't happy with my decision to walk away from his chosen faith, he never spurned me for it.

One more reason that this hurts so bad.

However, from what I have learned, both from books and life, I do not believe it is bad to fight, die, or even kill for something you believe in. unfortunately, I do not believe in this war. And Fighting, killing, and possibly even dieing for something I do not believe in is exactly where I would be If I enlisted, even as a saxophone player. This country hasn't fought a war in the last 40+ years that I would willing participate in.

When I took the ASVAB (military's Inelegance test) I scored a 98 out of a possible 100. The recruiters began foaming at the mouth, giving me the hole "anything anywhere" dog and pony show. but I knew, that if I worked in any job they offered, I would still be assisting a machine in the destruction of an undeserving people.

[Kaleko]

46. "This country hasn't fought a war in the last 40+ years that I would willing participate in."

Bravo.

Spoken like a true patriot and a peaceful warrior backed by the power of his own convictions. You're the 'good American' this world is desperately waiting for. A man who thinks for himself instead of blindly following the brainwashed herd.

[fNord]

48. Thank you for that......

doing what you believe seems to be a thankless uphill battle.

[create.peace]

87. What are we, chopped liver? By that, I mean there are a lot of people

who are thankful for those of us who choose our own path. It isn't a selfish thing to live your own life, and that is what some will accuse you of. It is selfish to assume someone else should live the life you planned or dreamed for them. We meet people all the time in our travels who envy us for following our dreams. I raised my children to follow their dreams, not mine. I even told them that if they didn't like the names they were given, to change them.

Don't worry about this and get on with your life and be happy.

[ginnyinWI]

31. I suppose your dad feels betrayed and rejected by you,

because you are choosing a different life. It's as if you are rejecting all the values he tried to teach you maybe. So he's hurt and wants to hurt you back. I can't imagine any version of this where both parties wouldn't be in pain over this break.

I'm having a hard time with my parents now too--as they go into old age (79 and 81) they are getting harder and harder to talk to, because they are feeling weak and vulnerable and are afraid of losing their independence. So they dig in their heels and get really stubborn. And they are very sensitive to any advice, which feels like a criticism of their whole way of life and a rejection of them as individuals--when all I want to do is make life a little easier for them.

I think what I'm trying to tell you is that maybe the problem is not so much you, but them--some deficiency in them does not allow them to be comfortable with someone not exactly like they are in thought, word and deed. Your not joining the military seems like a personal rejection of them.

They say time heals all wounds, and there is some truth to it. My brother once got offended at a perceived slight and didn't talk to me for several years. Finally he was able to talk to me about it and understand, and everything was okay. I had simply forgotten to do something and he took it wrong because he was going through a divorce and everything in his life was a big mess. When he was better, he was able to move past the misunderstanding.

It's not necessarily you that's the problem--it might be them. Is your dad going through difficulties right now? A mid-life crisis maybe? Those can really shake up someone's life. Or job worries, marital worries, worries about old age--could be anything. Something else must be factoring in, to make a reasonable man behave so unreasonably.

[proteus_lives]

32. It will pass.

I know it may not seem like it will but I have been there and I have had similar rifts with my family. There would time in my life where I would have cheerfully tossed my dad down a flight of stairs. But today we are closer then we've ever been.

In fact one the biggest brawls we ever had was when I quit ROTC in college. My dad really pushed me to do it and for a long time I was gung-ho too. But I came to the realization that the Army was not right for me. He was furious and it was bad between him and me for a long time. But several years later he called me and told me I had made the right choice. That phone call meant the world to me. (I can count the times my dad has admitted he was wrong on one hand.) It might take time but your family is a great as you say they are, you'll get there.

Leave the door open because the situations/events/happenings that would cause a permanent family rift are very, very few. And I don't think your situation is one of them. Sooner or later they will get over being angry/sad/stubborn and they will reach out. I would bet the farm.

Stay strong. And that old cliche is often true, blood is thicker, blood is thicker.
:grouphug:

[Fozzledick]

34. I'm not very good at online sympathizing,

usually more at home joking and ranting, but I feel like I've just got to check in as best I can.

You've had to make a terribly hard decision, but I can't help feeling it's for the best.

You've got me thinking about an old friend from a solid Navy family (father a Commadore, grandfather an Admiral, all naval officers back to a Lieutenant who started as John Paul Jones' cabin boy) whose father nearly disowned him when he decided not to re-enlist after one six year term (two of them in Viet Nam, but that's another whole story). He had had enough to realize that it wasn't what he wanted to do with the rest of his life, but his father couldn't understand why he'd want to do anything else.

He had a very rough time of it, but by the time I met him in college he was a very different person than the way he described himself in the Navy, and while it was a difficult and painful process for him to leave it behind and grow out of it, it was clearly what he needed to do to become the person he was.

[OutNow]

36. OK, if not Army then what?

As a vet (U.S.A.F) I'm happy you made the choice to not enlist. And yes, the advice that things will get better over time with your family is probably correct.

But the tone of your note left me hanging. I expected a "I'm not joining the military and decided to go to grad school instead, or "Instead of joining the Army I'm joining the Peace Corp and teaching English to kids in Laos", or ???

We know what path your family advocated, but not your path. If you don't have one, now that a military career is out, you should develop a path and pursue it. Maybe your folks would be happy to see you make a commitment to a worthwhile goal even if it isn't THEIR goal.

[fNord]

39. your absolutely right.......

and the answer is I have no idea.

I have strongly been considering the peace corp, but "considering" and some research is about as far as it has developed.

I truly don't know what my next move is.


edited to add:
What ever it is, I want to do something that will make me proud of myself.

[Iris]

47. I think it's ok for you to not know. And I dont' think you should have to enlist in the Army just

because you don't know.

This will all work itself out in time. You may have to look outside of your family for a while to get the support you need. Obviously, you feel like you can do that to some extent here.

[fNord]

49. I do feel like a little of the weight has lifted off me....

by posting here. these responses have helped me feel more confident than ever. I Knew I was on the right path, but now my hands are no longer shaking as I type.

I really feel like I am among friends:grouphug:

[Iris]

156. good!

:loveya:

[roody]

68. Better yet, live every day to its fullest. We are all going to die.

Congratulations for following your heart. Your family will come around. May you have a long, happy, peaceful life.

[Joe Chi Minh]

69. "even if it isn't THEIR goal" suggests THEIR goal is worthwhile. He's not under

an obligation to take up a charitable cause by way of penance for not wanting to kill vanilla-challenged people, minding their own business (unfortunately for them, oil). That's charitable cause enough. Though I don't doubt they would be reassured if he had a career plan. I can well remember my poor old mother crying her eyes out at my school report. Alas, it was a good preparation for the future.

Now, WWII, that would have been another matter. Basically, I believe in the "purity of arms" concept, that the military is an honourable career, but, now, the West, it seems, and most notably the US and its poodle, the UK, turns everything it touches to dross. In this case, military service. Imo, trying to fathom the purpose of life as obstinately as fNord seems to be, is a mark of the highest integrity, and will eventually bring him enviable rewards.

[madmom]

37. "To thine own self be true"... better words I could not afford you.

[maglatinavi]

38. WOW

Friend I am going to tell you what a "friend" told me once... we do not choose our parents ... however, there may be karmic linkages and your sorrow and pain may be the way to pay a karmic debt and learn the lessons of love and wisdom. I am 79 yrs. old and have had my share of profound pains of the soul, and sorrows. It wasn't until I understood the Laws of Karma that I have found solace. Just the same I suffer from depression, although not as severe as I did in the past. In spite of the pains and sorrows and guilt for many wrong selfish self centered actions, I graduated from college, worked over 42 years, have two grown up children and volunteer other more years. This may not be a consolation for you, but I invite you to try and study about the reality of reencarnation. We come by to learn and purify our spirits.
I hope you can understand what I am saying because if you ever do, you will find solace. Your parents also are on a spiritual voyage, like all of us and have their own karmic dues and lessons to learn. But you are not responsible for their spiritual development.
Everything will be all right. You have done what is right in spite of the consequences. This shall pass... wait and see...

[roguevalley]

40. follow your heart. you know what you have to do for you. I hug you.

you are a righteous person.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

43. At this time, it appears you're outnumbered within your family

I get from your e-mail that you feel alone in your feelings and decision. That makes it more difficult to defend them. But you've clearly made the right choices for yourself and that's all that matters in the longrun. You are young enough that I don't believe your family will ostracize you for long. Especially if you keep the door open a bit, but pursue what it is that will be satisfying to you.

For what it's worth, if either of my 2 kids had wanted to join the service (especially during tha last 8 years), I would have tried to talk them out of it.

K&R, my friend.

[fNord]

44. Compleatly......

After my decision to walk away from the Army, I began getting calls from my entire extended family. Folks I hadn't heard from in over a year.

The worst though(besides from my father) came from my sisters husband, who was my closest friend during high school and beyond. One of the happiest days of my life was when he and my sister announced there engagement, because that meant this man who was like a brother to me would now actually be my brother. he chewed me out for twenty minuets, and finished it by calling me my fathers Judas.

I really had no one in the family to turn to for support.

[orleans]

50. i'm really sorry

i never went through that. my parents loved and supported me regardless of what i did or didn't do.

i try to be the same way for my daughter.

you might spend the rest of your life trying to get them to accept you. or they may come around on their own. or you could sit down and have a screaming match with them (which is what i probably would do--good luck.)

[1]

51. if you believe in what you are doing...

stop shaking.

either you believe in what you are doing or you don't.

which is it?

[fNord]

53. I DO believe in what I am doing......

but telling my family that I don't believe in what there doing....and that I want them to believe in me....well thats not as easy as I would like it to be.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fNord]

54. and BTW,

that OP is six hours old. I am a little calmer now, thanks in large part to all the Positive replies this thread received.

[fNord]

52. the sun is coming up.....

and I still cant sleep. Damn nerves....

This was the first step I have taken toward building the bridge back to my loved ones.


Thank you to every one who has posted here, You have helped me remember the courage I had when I made this damning decision for my own freedom.

You have reminded me that there are people who feel as I feel.:grouphug:

[RadiationTherapy]

55. I think you need another session witht the Illuminatus books.

Life is for living and experiencing. The ultimate goal of 'Grey-face' is to find your place in the hierarchy and give and obey orders.

I read in a taoism book once: To be born human is as rare as a blind turtle in the ocean placing its head through a yoke.

Fuck war. Who knows the next time your head will pop up and you will find yourself a human again. Live hard, man, and good luck.

[fNord]

60. Thank you.....

and Hail Eris

[cornermouse]

57. If you can afford it, consider signing up for a class or two

or doing something so that they can see for themselves that you're searching for a direction or goal for yourself and not just drifting aimlessly. That might help.

[JNelson6563]

58. It is your life

and you need to do what makes you happy. You have chosen wisely. You cannot live for your family.

Frankly I think parents who demand a certain career out of their child are the most selfish people in the world. Stand strong in your convictions. You get one shot at life and the best thing you can do to prepare for when it flashes before your eyes is to make sure it's fun to watch.

Hugs and encouragement,
Julie

[Union Yes]

61. Be proud of who you are and your decisions. You don't need anyone's approval to do anything.

You've done NOTHING wrong.
Follow your heart and do what makes YOU happy.

You don't need anyone's permission to live your life.

Don't let anyone judge you. They don't have that authority.

I hope you find peace and can make up with your family. But it's them, not you, who are in the wrong here.

Best wishes to ya!

:patriot:

[BanzaiBonnie]

62. Rejection is painful, I'm sorry you are going through this

but know that you are not alone. Many of us have gone through similar rejections by family. We have had to stand against what THEY wanted for us to find our own way.

Community and friends are important. Lean on us if you will. We'll see you through this. You're going to be alright. In fact you're going to be fine because you are being true to who you are at the core.


Enclosed is a piece I wrote for a friend's website on addictions, but it can be for any life crisis. It seems appropo :



We all fear rejection but it is crucial to our moving forward to understand why. We must learn to move past the rejection in order to find our way.

Remember --- rejection is something EVERYONE faces --- daily; every time you reach out to another person there is a chance that you will be rejected. There is an equivalency between your ability to accept rejection/failure and your rate of successful endeavors.

Facing ones FEAR of rejection and going through it is a good thing. You had a positive result? That will build to the next positive result. But what if you are frozen in your fear? It will show in all aspects of your life: mental, emotional and physical fitness.



Prior to and alongside my art/garden design/horticulture interests I have training in ECE--- Early Childhood Education. I almost have a degree in Child Development. (One of the projects I let my fear of _success_ stop me from completing) I have been a child advocate in varying circumstances for 30 years. Mostly though, that part of my education helped me raise some pretty wonderful kids.

It has long been my belief that people should be required to have training and receive a license to raise children.

Some thoughts:

Fear of rejection is something pretty deeply built into us on the instinctive level. Early in life it's what makes us want to please our parents/tribe. It's why we both love and fear our parents. The approval of our parents/family/tribe helps to assure our survival. They hold the power of life and death.

As a child if we are physically abandoned, we will most assuredly die. If we are abandoned on the mental or emotional levels a part of us MAY die or at the least be severely crippled.

The essential feeling though, is that WE WILL DIE. Anyone who has abandonment issues can attest to the powerful nature of those feelings. And I’m not sure I know anyone who doesn’t face at least some abandonment issues.


So, we carry forward that fear of death and we do whatever we have to to survive. We are built to survive. And whatever gets us through we carry on with, until we find a better way. What we are working on now is finding a better way. We are working on becoming whole, healthy humans being. Yes Penelope, I meant to write --- humans being.


How to get there:

Have you ever been around a baby that is learning to walk? How do people respond to that child?

They get cheers. Good boy, keep going. Atta girl. You're on your way. You might fall down, but you can get back up again. And it's likely you'll get farther the next time.

No one says WOW! You have that down. You are a perfect walker now. They are encouraged to keep trying until they have enough control over their feet, arms and other body parts to successfully circumnavigate their world.

What if our parents/family/ tribe responded like that to each new step we take on this adventure of our life? What a difference it would make.


Encouragement is what I get from the communities I hang with. Encouragement to keep trying --- even when I fall, I will get back up and try again. And believe me, I've fallen more than a few times in my life. But I keep going.


How many of you have family who tell you not to set your sights to high --- because they don't want you to be disappointed? It's out of love of course. YEAH, right. They just don't believe you can walk, let alone run. A couple of things at work there --- the big one being, it might force them to change. You might grow beyond them and just watch the process of homeostasis in action. Everyone else has to change. Even if it's just their opinion of who they believe you are. Sometimes your family and close friends will fight the changes you are making in your life, tooth and nail.

Isn’t it better to try and fall short, than to never try? If we learned to walk using that kind of discouragement we'd all be serious cripples.

And what are we learning about the body/mind connection? Body/mind/spirit all tied together? We are learning to heal the crippling aspects of our lives.

The best --- absolutely best thing I remember my father ever telling me was --- I don't know what to tell you, but I have confidence you will figure this out.

Some of us have family and friends who are supportive of our growth. Some of us don't. Find people who are not invested in you staying in your addictions. Make new friends. Develop new family. For some of us, that will be our best option.


As you move through your life, it doesn't matter how many times you fall down. It's how many times you get back up that will win you the prize of a whole and satisfying life.


BanzaiBonnie / She Who Walks

[fNord]

67. thank you for this......

it is very inspiring.

with your permission, I may send excerpts from this to my parents along with the letter that I am writing.

[BanzaiBonnie]

90. Oh yes, certainly

And you are an inspiration to me to take a stand for yourself.


Remember, when people speak of following authority, the original *author* of your life is you. You are daring to dream your own life.

[Joe Chi Minh]

63. See it as a rite of passage, though it's they who need to grow up, not you. You feel you are

losing your family. Do you know that more British soldiers who fought in the Falklands have committed suicide than were killed there.
Our conscience is the most precious thing we have. Also, fragile. You are the strong one in your family. And don't you forget it. I doubt they can be that bad, if they produced a son like you, so I'd be surprised if they don't regret their folly and come round.

Doing the right thing in normal times is never easy, but after the last Republican administration (not to speak of the previous Republican administrations), you're still living in a bit of a madhouse, it seems to me.


PS:
Like your signature line. I instinctively feel it to be very true.

[fNord]

64. Thank you.....

and on the sig line....

it means don't think of one thing wile doing another: "If you whistle wile your pissing, you have two minds where one will suffice, and a divided mind is easily conquered." --Hagbard Celine

[Joe Chi Minh]

73. Well, that's very interesting, but much more profound than I had in mind.

I was thinking of the damage that could be done to one's attire through a possible conflict between the two physiological processes - maybe compounded by capricious meteorological conditions.

[fNord]

76. well, yes...but that is the metaphore......

don't preform one action wile contemplating another.

Hmmmm, maybe I should head my own advice.........

[cadaverdog]

115. Here is another piece of advice

My story is not unlike yours, only my father wanted me to be a doctor or lawyer - anything less was unacceptable. Problem was, I had no interest in either of those choices. I was more inclined to the arts, and when I informed my father of my career choice, I was thrown out of the house. Years later, never mind that I was doing quite well in my chosen field and had won a number of awards, I was still "playing" in his eyes.

But despite my success, his rejection colored my entire career and made it difficult for me to have good relationships in my field. I was always looking for the pat on the back I never got from my father, and became very defensive to every slight, real or imagined. So despite doing well, I never really fulfilled my potential.

Not long ago, I had an epiphany of sorts. While working with a group, I happened to hear a nearby conversation between two fellows. One line struck me like a thunderbolt:

...and Dr. Phil said, "do you want to be Right, or do you want to be Happy?"

If that doesn't sing to you, that's alright. But if it does, well, I just wish I had heard those words at least twenty years ago.

Good luck to you.

[The Backlash Cometh]

65. Well done.

You are an old soul without realizing it. To understand that they would never know you if you followed their path, instead of your own...well, that's just earth-shattering as far as personal revelations go. Now. Be strong because the path you have set out for yourself is a lonely one, and it has to be, at least for the first few miles...

[fNord]

66. Thank you....

and I know. I am prepared. I am a little scared, but determined to follow my path to its joyous end.
I know in my heart that I am going in the right direction.

[ChickMagic]

70. I totally understand where you're coming from

I also applied and tested for the armed forces. I also backed out. If you're like me,
sometimes you'll regret it (especially as it concerns your family) but most of the
time you'll thank your lucky stars that you were self aware enough to bail.

My dad was in the Bataan Death March and left the army with stripes. He also had
the bronze star, purple heart and medal of freedom (I think that's the one). He
was certain that military life would shape me up as it did for him and he bragged
to all his army buddies about my going into the military. In intelligence, no less.

It took a long time, but he came around. Once I started getting myself together
and earning a living, he softened up. I trust that will happen with you.

All my best wishes :hug:

[northernlights]

71. Better you find your true path now

than spend a lifetime of misery on the wrong path, and spend your last hours wondering why you even bothered...

If your parents truly love you and are truly caring and compassionate, they will come in time to see this. If they do not come to see this, then you are better off without them.

You are very brave to be doing what you are doing. It is the hardest thing in the world to go against your parents -- it's as if lightening should strike you dead. It will not.:hug::hug: :hug:

Keep moving forward. When you find your right path, you will know it. And when your parents see you on your path, happy, productive, living a positive life, then they will understand. You have left the door open to them and that ball is in their court. There is nothing else for you to do than find your right path.

[DutchLiberal]

72. I've never understood why parents want their children to be exactly like them...

And I don't think I ever will.

You made the right decision. It's your life and you've got to live it.

Good luck.

[guruoo]

75. Here's what's really going on, IMO...

Parents tend to blame themselves when children don't follow the parents (or families') pre-established expectations.
Their blaming you is most likely a way of dealing with these irrational, deeply subconscious feelings of guilt.

I've got to get to work now, so here's a little quick search to hopefully help get you to plan a strategy for dealing with the situation.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=subconscious+guilt++parents+expectations+&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=9b1c6ebfff7f9103

Good luck! :hi:

[redqueen]

77. Well done.

You should be proud of having the courage to be so open and honest with your feelings, and for having the insight to know you weren't on the right path and the guts to stop and re-evaluate your goals.

Good luck finding the path that YOU want to be on.

:toast:

[fNord]

79. Thank you.....

I must admit, I'm not sure where I 'm headed, but I know its the right direction....


:toast:

[Tim01]

78. They might respect you most for standing your ground without appology.

I am just guessing here.
Clearly you have violated the unwritten "team" rule. Very often though, people with a militaristic mindset have a lot of respect for those who are willing to draw a line in the sand and say "fuck it, I'm doing what I feel is right, I don't care what the consequences are."
It might take time to show them that you mean it though.
Very much of the military training is all about going through adversity and refusing to give up.

Corpsmen are very often very highly respected in the military. Sometimes they are in that job because they refuse to fight for religious or moral reasons. They are a pacifist who is willing to expose himself to enemy fire repeatedly, in order to help his fellow soldiers.Yet he is unwilling to take another life. Soldiers generally respect that level of putting your money where your mouth is.

I'm not necessarily suggesting you should become a corpsman, but rather that there are other ways to be a member of the team, if that is what you want.

[fNord]

81. I considered it.......

But I am pretty big into the holistic side of medicine.

I mean I don't even take aspirin.

A friend of mine suggested that I become a Episcopalian minister, as I have a strong grasp of theology, and in person, I tend to be a bit long winded.

[maglatinavi]

154. fNr

If you understand holistic medicine. you understand metaphysics ... that is, beyond the physical. I wouldn't recommend you to take the cloth though... there is a grat Unity Church teaching that has come to me while reading your messages: Let go and Let God... God, or Godess or the universal SPirit, what ever... let go ... trust in the Omnipotence of the Supreme... and again I recommend, look into the understanding of the Laws of Karma and rest in the knowledge that you are who you are and that you are in YOUR PATH... BLESS YOU!

[olegramps]

80. If you allow yourself to be forced into doing something that you disagree with

would be the worst decision that you could make. It appears to me from reading your responses that you have not chosen what you want to do with your life. Perhaps this is really the crux of the matter and that your family is of the opinion that a military career would be a good choice since you have not shown an desire to pursue something.

It also appears that you are opposed to joining the military because our nation has engaged in unjustifiable wars. For some career service people this would not be a welcome appraisal. The majority of the career military people that I have encountered have the mentality of "My country right or wrong" and anyone who does not provide unconditioned support of the military are unpatriotic weasels.

[fNord]

82. to them I would simply state that:

this country was founded by unpatriotic "weasels."

part of my issue is that i seem to have a problem blindly following orders.

That and I don't want to kill people I don't know, don't have an issue with, and am pretty sure are no threat to me and my way of life.

but that's just me.

as i have previously stated, I have no issue with people who DO want to enlist in the military. in fact my ENTIRE FAMILY is or was in the military, and I love them dearly.

It's just not for me. If this was WWII and I was fighting Nazis to rid the world of fascism, it would be different story.

I simply cant bring myself to kill for no good reason.

[fNord]

83. i think I am going to bed.....

thanks to all the posters who have helped to calm my nerves, and to remind me that I am on the right path.

[Karenina]

112. When you wake up, check in with your FAN CLUB!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6445233

[DarbyUSMC]

84. Two words. Reverse psychology.

Go on about your life with the attitude "tough cookies, family" you lose.
Make no further overtures toward those who are shunning you.
Depend on friends, not family for social interaction.

That isn't the way you feel, but that is what you need to project.

In order to do this, it would be a good idea not to pour your heart out to the members or fringe members of your family. Believe in yourself and the truth of the life you want to live.


You can't be a floor mat unless you lie down and let people walk all over you. They are holding the bait they think you want (their "love" and approval) to keep you under their thumbs, which is more than ridiculous.

[Vidar]

85. K&R

[babydollhead]

86. You are not alone. You did the right thing.

In the Book, "What they carried", Tim O'Brien tell his own story of running away to avoid going to war and a kind man rowed him within 10 feet of Canada's shore, and Tim O'Brien was too scared to take any steps in his own story for fear of what his family would say. So he returns and goes to Vietnam. His stories in that book are a brief glimpse into how fucked up the war made him. This country is fighting two unendable wars, you would just be cannon fodder. There is so much more to do in your brief and only life. LIVE. LOVE. CREATE something beautiful with your mind and with your time. My family knows very little about me and when we spend time together, I quickly get on their nerves. But I have friends and interests and and making my life FULL. Stay active, breathe in and out, and DO SOMETHING to help someone else. I'd suggest you go to the library and read that book, 'The things they carried" and "A Path with Heart" Go on Craigslist and look for classes, read to blind people, laugh with children. Fall in love. This pain of your can be a springboard from which you leap into your own beautiful future. You have a friend in me if you ever want to pm me. I am as fucked up as the next guy, but I tend and lean toward happy. In peace. babydollhead

[MiniMe]

88. Military life isn't for everybody

I respect your decision, just as I would have respected your decision if you had decided on a military career. I think you said that you are in your late 20's? If the military was what you wanted, you would have joined long ago. I think part of the reason you haven't decided what to do with your life is because you have had the military thing hanging over your head.

What is important here is that you make the right decision for YOU. I agree with the other poster who said to give them a plan of what you want to do with your life. Maybe look into being a forest ranger, or something that will keep you outdoors since it sounds like you enjoy the great outdoors. But be at peace with your decision.

[Time for change]

89. Thank you for sharing your letter

If your family can't accept you and your situation, then in my opinion they don't deserve you.

I don't think that helps, but I felt the need to say it.

I hope that you find a way to deal with this and find some happiness.

[NashVegas]

91. Good Luck, Kiddo

You did it the best way you could. Now is not the time for you to jump through hoops to gain your family's approval, but you let him know what you wanted. The ball's in his court.

Be proud of yourself.

[GreenPartyVoter]

92. I am so sorry. *hugs* I hope that things will heal between you soon. For my own part, I am glad

that you made the decision that you did. It sounds like it was the one that came from your conscience and not from someone else's plan for you. :hug:

[samsingh]

93. I support your decision - it is your life

i hope your family relationships mend over time.

[WeDidIt]

95. The vast majority of Americans don't join the military

Just ebcause you don't want to go into the family business is no reason for the family to get all pissed at you.

[dhpgetsit]

96. I'm so sorry you are having to go through this.

You understand better than I do the pride military families take in continuing a family tradition of military service. Their disapointment is understandable, but that does not mean it is right. If you serve with honor in your own way, and continue to leave the doors open for them, I believe their disapointment will gradually change to pride and respect.

:pals:

[mntleo2]

97. FNord I Wrote A Journal dedicated to you ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6445233&mesg_id=6445233

It was written from my heart for you.

Love
Cat in Seattle

[LuckyLib]

98. You're a fine and sensitive person who is taking the high road.

Keep in touch with family members, working to bring things back to normal -- holidays, visits, etc. Develop for yourself a mantra when the subject of your military situation comes up, and don't waiver from it: "I made my decision and I'm happy with it." "I'm living my life and it's working for me." "Me joining the military? That's over. Done with. In the past." Then change the focus to them -- "how's work going? How's that new baby? How's school?" Always go back to your same phrases when they try to bring it up again, indicating you have no interest in getting into it.

Your indicating you've moved on can highlight their failure to do so. But keep trying until that strong self tells you it isn't worth it to continue.

[Doctor_J]

99. What an excellent heartfelt message

I sympathize with you on some level since I am mostly estranged from my family due to their devotion to the vilest of the hate radio filth. I hope that your family will welcome you back soon on your terms, and to your satisfaction.

[meowomon]

100. They will come around

After I came out as a lesbian my right wing Christian family was furious and didn't talk to me for a long time. That was 20 years ago and just recently my dad helped us (my partner and I) buy a house. They will come around and if they don't, you have your dignity and integrity. Good luck!

[librechik]

101. I am so sorry for your separation from your family-- clearly they are in the wrong

chin up--learn what you can without those a-holes.

I was estranged from my family for many years, but eventually they came around to accept me again. I never had to change my beliefs to make that happen, though. And neither should you. (They didn't change either--not that i was expecting that)

You are obviously a good, concerned person. You will do fine without their influence.

Godspeed!

[sui generis]

102. You only live once, and at the end the accounting is done by you.

Not your family. Not your "peers". Just you - so make your choices for your life, not anyone else's.

If your family is giving you conditional love, it's not love at all, just a condition. Also don't confuse approval with love.

If you are giving your family unconditional love while they are demanding you be someone you are not, then that's not love either.

Maybe it's time to focus on you, and let the rest of the cards fall where they may.

[Hekate]

103. This is a beautiful letter, honest and loving and courageous. You can't ask for more...

I hope this goes out to each and every member of your family now. After that, what they choose to do with it is up to them. This was one of the hardest and most heartbreaking things I needed to learn about my own family.

Many years ago I had an epiphany of sorts, and like all epiphanies it was the completely unexpected nature of the thing that struck me to my core. (Never mind why the ultimate conflict in my family, it's only relevant that I had spent a lifetime trying to be the good first-born and do whatever would make my mother happy -- even if it ultimately crushed me. It took me nearly 10 adult years to see that this would never be possible.)

What is relevant is this: during a meditation I asked the Goddess: "Will there be healing in my family?" and actually heard an answer. "Yes -- but you have to be willing to let the others do their work."

Do you see what that means? and how hard it is? You can't MAKE them accept you as the different person that you are, no matter how honest, and loving, and courageous you are. THEY have to do that work. You can still love them with all your heart -- but there is work for them to do and you can't do that for them.

You have your own work to do, and you are doing it. Blessings to you. :hug:

Hekate

[proReality]

104. Be true to yourself

and be patient, families generally come around in a short time. And never doubt their love for you, they're just not showing it in a way that you think is appropriate. Respect yourself and they'll respect you.

[Joe Chi Minh]

105. I don't think there's any one way to deal with a situation like this. But love does conquers

all, imo, for example in the raising of a family. Some parents will let their kids grow up wild or veer to the same degree in the authoritarian direction in their upbringing. But if the parents are loving human beings, they will turn out all right. And conversely, they can do either of the above without love, and their kids will turn out bad lots; whether they are a success or a failure in the world's eyes.

In your shoes, although mine, too, is/was a loving family, I would have concluded that email you sent: "Don't bother to try and contact me. I'm changing my name". Of course, I wouldn't. But there - we're a volatile bunch. What a riot of different temperaments we have.

It's good you weren't fooled into that nonsense about proving yourself. I had a great time, but all I did was prove what a lousy soldier I made. Although I did leave with the rank of Gunner II Class, shared with some illustrious types, such as Hunter S Thompson and Duane Dobermann. There was some other mad character, too, but I can't think of his name.

[TheMadMonk]

106. Sorry can't be gentle. The best way to deal with a "My way or the highway"...

...ultimatum, no matter who it comes from, is to hit the blacktop and stick your thumb out the moment it is feasible to do so.

Your father is an authoritarian abuser. Nothing you do at this point will earn you his love. Caving in to his demands might get you grudging acceptance, and beating the living fuck out of him might possibly garner a degree of respect. But no change you make in yourself will gain his love, that change can only occur in him.

If he has the family so thouroughly cowed that they themselves will all break off relations with you on his say so, then sadly you are better off without them. You will not be abandoning them to walk away, they obviously abandoned you long ago.

The purpose of a family is to give its children a fighting chance in the real world. The purpose of dynasty is to perpetuate a power structure that by its very nature must be oppressive to survive.

Go out, build your own family, try not to make the same mistakes, and by your example, you might redeem those members of your "old" family, who have not been thouroughly broken to the dynastic yoke.

[Joe Chi Minh]

107. A fascinating post, Grigori Ephimovich. Your post makes more and more sense

the more I think about it.

It's more common, I believe, for mothers to batten on the morale of a daughter, effectively intimidating them so that they lose all self-confidence, while the mother's is bolstered at her expense. My wife was a classic case. There is a very good play on the subject, called Separate Tables.

Few things anger me as much as control freaks, who are actually very weak individuals. I hope fNord's father doesn't fall into that category, but it would go some considerable way towards explaining fNord's lack of self-confidence vis-a-vis his family.

[shimmergal]

108. The military has become so much

a part of their identity, that you rejecting a military career feels like you're rejecting THEM.

Of course you aren't, but apparently they can't sort out the difference.

Actually stuff like this happens in a lot of families. We didn't clash over my career choice, but my mother couldn't reconcile herself to my leaving the Methodists and joining the Episcopal church. She took it as a rejection of her. Fortunately it didn't cause a huge estrangement, but ever after, she'd frequently make little quips, like that I just did it for social climbing.

I did find out later, from my children's comments, that she wasn't as upset as she acted. I think she figured that if she could give me enough static, I'd give in and rejoin the Methodists just to avoid the hassle. 'Course I have no idea if this is true of your family, but it's possible.

You can't run your life according to other people's plans. The tone of your letter is almost perfect. Just keep the doors open to a reconciliation and let your parents and relatives know you love and respect them regardless. 4 chances out of 5 they'll come around eventually. But even if they don't, you have to follow your own path. Hang in there. . .!

[peace13]

110. Well put.

I am sorry for your pain. You made the decision that was right for you and in the end that is all one can do. Unfortunately families are *ucked up sometimes and good people get caught in the middle. I hear and feel your pain. Peace to you, kim

[varelse]

111. You win the "made me cry at work" prize

Your decision is both courageous and compassionate. I hope for your family's sake, they will comprehend the gift and the blessing that a continued relationship with you would entail.

[haele]

113. From a retired Navy Chief - you did all right.

Family traditions are the hardest thing to overcome sometime, especially with parents who might just expect all their kids to follow in the family footsteps.

Not everyone is cut out to be in the military, just as not everyone is cut out to go to college, and not everyone can be a doctor, a lawyer, banker, or teacher. You aren't a f-up, you just need to find out what you are good at and follow that.

All you need to be is the best whatever it is you do that you can be. If we're in a shooting war, the military doesn't need someone who doesn't have the ability to handle the stress and the particular mind-numbing discipline that comes with the ditty-bag.

I have suggested to more than one sailor in my long career that maybe the Navy wasn't the best thing he or she could be doing, and to just use the time left to get as much education and experience as they could out of the situation,then go back home to do what they'd be happier doing. Nothing wrong with them - in fact, I'm still friends with one who has her own consignment store; they just weren't meant to be where they were and needed to head out on another path.

As for your family, it will take them some time, but in my experience around quite a few "professional" families (majority tending towards any certain profession, including military) - if you can prove to yourself are heading toward a future that you can be accomplished at of rather than retreating into co-dependency, they'll come around. It's all about the options. They may grumble and groan about "tradition" and "family duty", but they won't be "ashamed" - if you have a goal, whether you succeed or not, you are still going somewhere with your life, which is more than what a lot of Freep-er-people can say about themselves.

As my mom says, "there's as much greatness to be found being a good, reliable auto mechanic or a primary school teacher as there is being a General. You just have to be proud of being you and not give up."
(I came from a family of educators, btw...)

May you find what you need to be and head for that as a goal. Keep the attitude up as much as you can, and everyone else will eventually come around.

Haele

[RedCloud]

114. I could never point a gun at anyone. I beat my evil draft board 5-0!

Some people just cannot do it. I cannot help others do it. What it says simply is we have no ability to reason better than this, so I must kill you my 'enemy' or help others kill you? I know I would not be fighting for my country. No, Indochina is not my country as our leaders proudly lied. But it is part of the material empire. And others of my people will kill you to gain control of your raw resources and make sure your people get very little in exchange for them. And therefore we kill you a second time by death by poverty.

To the prisoner it says we are no better than you are. We will kill you to show you how bad it is to kill. And we cannot reform you because we are too primitive to know how to reform you. Therefore we opt for the easy way out by killing you.

[sandyj999]

116. They are living their lives and what right do they have to tell you how to live yours?

Parents sometimes make this huge mistake of wanting their adult children to be a carbon copy of themselves. I have a brother that is five years older than I am and my dad attempted to do that to him. He seemed to think if my brother didn't get a career at Ford Motor Company, all would be lost. You could have a nice car a beautiful home and everyone would see how successful you were. He had come from a very poor family and to him that was success.

Well my brother was marching to a different drummer and didn't do what my dad wanted him to do. Yes it caused a rift between them but as I told my brother, dad and mom had lived the life of their choice and it was his right to live his. He has done what he chose to do, he and his wife are probably the happiest people I know although they don't live in a fancy house or drive a fancy car. I believe we are all given the choice in this life and I applaud you for making the decision you needed to make. And as far as the family cutting you loose over your decision, they will be the ones missing out, not you. Stay strong.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

117. You're a truly amazing person. I hope the best for you. nt

[Rozlee]

119. Don't make the same mistakes we did

I don't know if you read my personal info in a previous entry, so I'll tell you. I entered the first gulf war as a Reserve Army RN. It was the Mother of All Keg Parties until the brain swelling, hearing loss, and seizures began once I got home. I had contracted neuro-Behcet's, an illness that is rare in the U.S., but native to the Middle East. I have a 100% service-connected disability rating from the VA now but it took years to get it, and in the meantime, I couldn't work right after a time that we had bought a new home, and the loss of my income was staggering. My husband and I eventually had to declare bankruptcy. My daughter served in Iraq and upon coming back got pregnant and had a miscarriage. After getting pregnant again, she gave birth to my little granddaughter who has Goldenhars Syndrome. If you google Goldenhars and Gulf War, you will get a great deal of hits connecting the two. Many studies have shown that the children of Gulf vets are more more likely to have this condition. I used to work at Brooke Army Medical Center as an RN before I got too sick to work anymore and just about all my friends still work there. They tell me that they are seeing kids coming in with cancer, leukemia, bleeding disorders, bone thinning in young people, skin disorders that almost seem to mimic radiation poisoning, etc. If this doesn't scare you for yourself, it should scare you for your future children. You should read cases about the high incidences of cancer and birth defects in children in Basra after all the depleted uranium used there and realize that we dropped over 1,500 tons of depleted uranium in this Iraq War as opposed to the 300 tons in the first one. Can anyone say Gulf War Syndrome? Our soldiers are walking on soil heavily contaminated with DU. It blows into their lungs, eyes, mouths, noses and settles on their skins. There has been a huge amount of asthma, incessant nose bleeds, nose and mouth and skin sores that keep recurring and heal slowly on our soldiers as I'm sure you've all seen on CNN. Like I said, you claimed you don't worry about injuries for yourself. But, think about what changes might be occuring in your DNA. I know I sound like some conspiracy theoricist, but my family has been directly affected, and I have a right to spin my dark little fantasies.

[Joe Chi Minh]

139. There must be a special place in Hell for the people responsible for

the use of depleted-uranium shells, Agent Orange (Mondiablo), etc.

[Jester Messiah]

122. Can't add much to what's already been said, but...

I wanted to add my support. Stay strong. You made the decision that you did for sound reasons. Your family will come to accept that, in time.

[Rainngirl]

124. Dearheart...

I am 55 and still haven't found my path. I have learned that, without a family's support (or much of a family for that matter), I found that creating a loving family of friends is a good way to go--people who will love you regardless of what you decide to do. Love isn't supposed to hurt so much. You are still very young and will find your right path eventually. I can't even imagine how hard that pressure to join the military must have been for you. But know that it took great courage for you to follow what your heart told you to do.
Your letter said it all and the ball is in their court now. With time and perhaps some heart softening (and they might even remember what their christianity is all about), maybe they will come around. But if they don't, you will find a way to do without them. I say shame on them for letting you go. I hope they figure it out.
Good luck to you.

[lumberjack_jeff]

125. You are a man and you can make your own decisions.

You need not apologize for living your life.

[WestSeattle2]

128. My thoughts exactly. If my family had shunned me over

something like this, I would have been long gone and never looked back. If parents can't love their children for who they are, that speaks volumes about the parents.

[Generic Brad]

126. I could have written a similar letter 30 years ago

My family had decided since my birth that I would become a Roman Catholic priest. When I rejected the path they had chosen for me, I was smeared and jeered to the extent that a few years ago I could not tolerate their condemnations any longer. I was kicked out of the family when they realized I was a Democrat. To this day I shudder to think of how they would have reacted if they had discovered I was an atheist.

[Joe Chi Minh]

141. That's a terrible thing, the "mother's priesthood" business. I suspect a lot of

the priests who leave the priesthood were the victims of it.

It's all about the prestige in Catholic circles. Your parents don't sound good people to know, and they could hardly be a good, never mind Christian, influence on you, atheist or not. You're well away from them. As somebody said above to fNord, it's their loss, and if they have a scrap of goodness in them, they'll realise it one day and rue their wretched selfishness.

[Joe Chi Minh]

158. I think the term is "mother's vocation".

[Butch350]

127. I enlisted in the Air Force...but my dad was pissed cause I joined.

Fuck what everyone else says or think. It's your life. Do what is best for you. You don't obligate your life for a
family tradition. It's what they wanted to do - not what you have to do. Of course, this is just, MHO.

[cleveramerican]

130. follow your own path...

years from now you'll be glad you did.
maybe your family will come around
time has a way of softening people
but even if they never do understand
its their loss

you are doing whats right for you.
own it, don't back away from it.

I wish you the best.

[BabbaTam]

132. Hello!

Welcome to the world. Now, just try to stay awake. You're gonna like freedom.

[Orsino]

133. I am sorry that your family are holding themselves hostage to manipulate you.

I am glad that their success has been limited.

There is a kind of virtue, sometimes, in unquestioning obedience. Our nation, however, needs thinking citizens. There are plenty of ways to serve America better than you might in uniform. :patriot:

[orpupilofnature57]

136. Your the soldier ! God bless you.

[neuvocat]

137. When 911 happened

I felt the urge to re-enlist but I waited because I figured Bush would fuck everything up. He did more so than I imagined. You did a courageous thing by standing up to your family. I know how hard something like that is, believe me. The alternative however would be the risk of death, injury or brain injury. You likely would have killed someone and you would have to live with that forever if you did.

[MichiganVote]

140. It's your life. If you can't defend that with confidence, you're not ready to defend the country.

And that's ok. Maybe someday or maybe not.

[Joe Chi Minh]

143. It sounds flip, but isn't that the truth. He needs "to be his own man", if

he is to grow in confidence.

[MichiganVote]

144. Yup. Not too many nice guys in the military these days. Plenty of thugs.

[humbled_opinion]

142. I am reading this as an illustration of the current situation...

That our President finds himself in. Like you a multitude of spectacular successes and high hopes were expected from his extended family (Progressives) and so when he decides to chart an alternative course for the Healthcare reform agenda he becomes alienated by those that he shares common bonds with a family that is too willing to toss him aside because he did not aspire to their expectations. What he needs from us now more then ever is support and understanding.

Thank you for your story.

[barbtries]

145. a beautiful letter

i hope your family comes around. expectations are always a bitch. i would hope that they would realize that what their expectations should not be your burden.

[Chemisse]

146. I am completely stunned.

How could your family be so self-focused? And how could they be so cruel?

I am disgusted any kid should have to feel they must follow a certain career choice to be accepted by his parents. I thought we got past that as a society many decades ago.

You did the right thing to follow your own path.

They did the wrong thing to reject you for it.

It's little consolation though to know you are right and they are wrong. I hope you reach peace with yourself.

[Wetzelbill]

147. You did what's right for yourself

It took guts to do that, especially knowing it would cause problems with your family. Keep working on your family, they'll come around, and reaching out to your uncle here was good. It's likely that he was partly reaching out to you himself. Good luck with everything.

[boredonafriday]

150. Well, this is sad.

Hey, it's your life, though. Traditions don't create the paths that you walk on through the course of life, it is your own decisions on what to take. Take the paths that are unexplored, and others will notice and be proud of your courage.

I sound cliched, but i hope i helped.


+1

[MadMaddie]

152. fNord I applaud you for your courage

One time or another many of us have had to make a decision that didn't go along with our parents plans that they had for our future.

This is your life and this is your time to decide what path will be your destiny. You will find your calling but you can't be pushed into it by someone else.....

The military is noble but there are many other professions that are noble too.

Hang in there, you will survive this!

:grouphug:

[peacetalksforall]

153. A simple reason if I were in your shoes is this - we used to go to war for the country, now we go

for corporations. (We may have gone to war for corporations before, but no one thought that way). I think it is your relatives who are stuck. I'm not quite sure what reason you gave them, but HOLD tight, people are waking up little by little. Love them more than they say they love you and hang on. It's possible we're in Afganistan for the drugs and we're in Paskistan for the weapons - anything is possible after Vietnam, Iran-Contra. We know we are everywhere for the corporate takeover of earth resources - Gulf War 1 and 2. Drugs are an earth resource also. Weapons are made from earth resources as are the nuclear weapons that some of our leaders deal in. The awful, awful truth hurts.

But, we're learning. I've come a long way in what I've learned about the hard revelations of our history and I say - we should all -

wake up, stay awake, and wake others.

Don't preach to them, like I am here. Just tell them that you understand and keep waiting for them.

[MrMickeysMom]

155. This seems like a big step and in the right direction-

I can't imagine why your immediate family had this response, but maybe that doesn't matter. From what I've read that shaking of your hands when writing (and thinking about) that letter will be "less shaky" as you keep making your own decisions. You are your own best advisory board.

Maybe you could shadow some others around in their profession. (holistic therapist? health science?). Get a feel of things, take a few courses... writing, advancing your general knowledge.

Meanwhile, be open to the family, but let it go as you hold your head high.

You're going to be alright, fNord. :hug:

[sweetpotato]

157. To thine own self be true

Gotta love Shakespeare.

Its YOUR life to live - you only get one (as far as we know for sure) and you have to live it the way that you feel is best.

Making yourself miserable in a job that might make your family happy is no way to live. I tried it for over 6 years (working a job that my parents thought was best for me) and I almost ended up on a psych ward.

You must do what makes you happy - and if your family cannot be happy for you while YOU are happy, then let them go.

You really can't MAKE anyone happy - EXCEPT yourself.