PA Gym Shooting Victim has no Healthcare. Family raises money with carwash

[sabrina 1]

22 year-old Heather Sherba was one of the victims shot by George Sodini last month. She was shot in the leg and was one of several people who were injured and taken to Alegheny Hospital after the shooting.

4 Gym Shooting Victims Remain In Hospital

http://www.wpxi.com/news/20283426/detail.html

COLLIER TOWNSHIP, Pa. -- Four of the gym shooting victims remain in the hospital. Mary Primis, 26, and Heather Sherba, 22, are at Allegheny General Hospital listed in fair condition. Two victims are at UPMC Mercy hospital; one is listed in fair condition, and the other is listed serious condition.

Rachel Maddow covered the story saying that after the trauma she suffered she has to cover her own healthcare costs. Rachel includes video of the carwash with Heather and her family and those who came to help here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/32651477#32651477

Rachel's comment on this story: God help the richest nation on earth for making this the excuse we have for a healthcare system

There is no other civilized society where a victim of such a horrendous crime would have to resort to depending on the kindness of her neighbors to try to cover the cost of her treatment, as well deal with the trauma shed experienced.

I wish politicians would stop using these tragedies to go on TV and offer their 'sympathies' to the victims. They just don't care about the American people and they should stop pretending they do.

I hope Heather can raise the money she needs. But she shouldn't have to. I have a feeling that if she asked, France, Cuba, Britain, Venezuela or Canada, any one of those countries would be willing to treat her free of charge.

We are an embarrassment and increasingly a burden on other more advanced nations as more and more Americans have to go abroad to get medical care.

Shame on this government for depriving its citizens of the right to proper healthcare.

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. K & R

[anigbrowl]

2. Urgh, that makes me sick

[sabrina 1]

3. It made me sick when I read it too.

No words to describe the outrage this lack of healthcare is even for people who are innocent victims of crime. It is inhumane and a violation of Human Rights.

[napi21]

4. It wass very nice to have the carwash, but they only raised $500!

I grew up near that area of Pgh. $500 isn't even going to be noticed when applied to the bill at AGH!

I like it that different MSM hosts are npw talking about real life situations, and what can happen to you through no fault of your own!

I'm firmly convinced that the vast majority of people who now have insurance claim they love it because they haven't had to use it! I was one of those people just a few years ago. I hadn't used my ins since my youngest son was born, and he's 44! 3+ years ago I broke my ankle. MY COPAYS cost me a total of $3,400! Our total annual income was $22,000, and believe me, we didn't have a spare $,400 hanging around! I paid it off in payments, but until then, I had no idea how much that 20% of the 80%/20% policy can cost you, & my injury was fairly insignificant. One short surgery, 2 metal pins and recovery! What the hell happens when someone gets cancer, or something a lot more serious that mine? I wonder just how happy they would all be then?????

[Hannah Bell]

6. every grocery store in my town has someone's coffeecan with a story like that on it.

but we have 15% unemployment, so how is the "community" supposed to take care of all the sad stories.

not to mention the car washes to pay for band uniforms, art supplies, etc.

you can't finance universal social needs on bake sales & charity.

[sabrina 1]

9. But, that is the right wing's answer to 'taking care of those

who can't take care of themselves'. I spent a lot of time on rightwing boards a few years ago and whenever the healthcare issue came up, they insisted that 'no one in this coutnry goes without healthcare'. Their solution was always 'charity will take care of those who are in need'.

I tried to explain what you just said to them, but there was no way to get through to them. They completely reject the fact that people DIE from lack of healthcare.

Another conviction they have is that people who use the ER, are treated for free.

I blame Democrats for not making this issue clear. Some of those rightwingers probably just hadn't experienced the reaility and there was no one explaining it to them. Democrats should have had a clear healthcare educational program in the hands of every member of Congress before they go on television and radio. I wonder, is it deliberate? I read today that two thirds of the population are confused about the issue. So, whose fault is that? I blame Democrats for letting the Republicans have the advantage. It is infuriating.

[moonbatmax]

45. Yay for the Tin Can Health Plan!!

Seriously, we need people making up commercials for this.

[sabrina 1]

7. I know, I saw that they only raised $500.

That story made me cry. And those wonderful people who did contribute, probably could not afford it themselves. I loved the comment from the woman who said she felt good to be able to help.

As for your situation, I agree that many people do not use their healthcare. My sister, like you, had paid for several years into Blue Cross but never used it. They kept paying because of their two young kids. But, like you, she broke her foot and ended up paying also. That was the first time they realized that if they had NOT had a premium to pay and simply saved that money, they would have been better off. They cancelled their policy after that.

The system is a mess and a rip-off, and I wish people who are healthy, would just cancel their premiums. I think that is why they had the 'pre-condition' policy. So that healthy people would not wait until they needed it, to buy a policy. They thought of everything. It is ALL about profit.

[napi21]

12. I don't recommend canceling your HC policy. The risk of

catastrophic expense is way too high. I think we ahould continue to tell the true stories of what really happens when you need hc and have no ins, but especially what you get billed for when you DO have ins. and have to file a claim. There are still people out there who think everything is paid for expect your copay at the Dr. office!

[sabrina 1]

38. I don't have coverage, never have had it. But I do agree with

you that for those who do, it is risky to drop it.

I was just wondering if there was a threat of a planned boycott even for a period of months, would that get their attention? It might not be necessary in the end.

But I do understand what you are saying. :-)

Kucinich pointed out that we are actually paying for a single payer sysbem but one third of that cost is wasted on a 'middleman'. Also, when people without coverage get sick, they go to the ER and that cost is even more than the normal cost. If they cannot pay, the governmen has to do so. So, we do have a 'socialist' element already, and the cost is so much higher than if we had a straight, single payer system. All this just to preserve the outrageous profits for a relatively few individuals. Not to mention the unspeakable tragedy of the thousands of lost lives.

[Selatius]

14. Cost of chemotherapy? The price can skyrocket just for the drugs alone.

Here is a snippet:

Some chemotherapy drugs are relatively inexpensive, such as 5-FU and leucovorin. However, newer anticancer drugs are very expensive, especially when they are used in combinations. Whereas the drug costs for eight weeks of treatment with 5-FU and leucovorin will run in the $100–$300 range, adding oxaliplatin or irinotecan will increase this cost to $10,000 or more. The further addition of bevacizumab (Avastin) or cetuximab (Erbitux) will raise this cost to $20,000–$30,000. This is for the cost of the drugs alone.

http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com/alerts/prescription_drugs/JohnsHopkinsPrescriptionsDrugsHealthAlert_1053-1.html

Under your plan, you would have to shell out $4,000 to $6,000 if you have to pay 20%. This is just for the drugs. Medical tests and scans, hospital stays, etc. will push it even higher. We're talking easily $50,000 or even higher. At $50,000, your co-pay is gonna be $10,000 if it's 20%.

[coyote]

5. What a country! N/T

[aquart]

8. WHERE ARE THE SENATORS OF HER STATE?

[sabrina 1]

10. Excellent question. I was wondering the same thing.

These are her Senators:

US Senator Arlen Specter (R)

US Senator Robert Casey Jr. (D)

Isn't Casey the 'right to lifer' who 'values life' so much he opposes abortion?

I don't know who her Rep. is but here is a list of PA Reps:

US House Representatives for the State of Pennsylvania
# US Representative Robert A. "Bob" Brady (D) - Pennsylvania's 1st Congressional District
# US Representative Chaka Fattah (D) - Pennsylvania's 2nd Congressional District
# US Representative Philip S. "Phil" English (R) - Pennsylvania's 3rd Congressional District
# US Representative Jason Altmire (D) - Pennsylvania's 4th Congressional District
# US Representative John E. Peterson (R) - Pennsylvania's 5th Congressional District
# US Representative Jim Gerlach (R) - Pennsylvania's 6th Congressional District
# US Representative Joe Sestak (D) - Pennsylvania's 7th Congressional District
# US Representative Patrick Murphy (D) - Pennsylvania's 8th Congressional District
# US Representative William "Bill" Shuster (R) - Pennsylvania's 9th Congressional District
# US Representative Christopher Carney (D) - Pennsylvania's 10th Congressional District
# US Representative Paul E. Kanjorski (D) - Pennsylvania's 11th Congressional District
# US Representative John P. Murtha (D) - Pennsylvania's 12th Congressional District
# US Representative Allyson Y. Schwartz (D) - Pennsylvania's 13th Congressional District
# US Representative Michael F. "Mike" Doyle (D) - Pennsylvania's 14th Congressional District
# US Representative Charles W. "Charlie" Dent (R) - Pennsylvania's 15th Congressional District
# US Representative Joseph R. Pitts (R) - Pennsylvania's 16th Congressional District
# US Representative T. Timothy Holden (D) - Pennsylvania's 17th Congressional District
# US Representative Tim Murphy (R) - Pennsylvania's 18th Congressional District
# US Representative Todd Platts (R) - Pennsylvania's 19th Congressional District

A lot of Dems in there. They do not know how to fight, this is a perfect example for them to use to demonstrate how draconian our Healthcare system is. People can understand this kind of story. But apart from Rachel, I haven't this covered anywhere on the MSM or heard any Dem refer to it.

Edited to add that her Governor is Edward Rendell. He talks about Healthcare on his site, but makes no mention on his position on a National Healthcare program, just a State program. Can't tell if he's for it or against it:

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=377961&mode=2

[noiretextatique]

29. specter is a D now eom

[sabrina 1]

46. Yes, you're right. I copied and pasted the info so it must not

have been updated. Thanks for the correction.

[sabrina 1]

11. Okay, I've been looking around to see

what Sen. Casey's and Spectre's positions are on healthcare.

Sen. Casey seems to be pretty good on the issue. From what I've read, he was not against a Public Option.

Sen. Specter also says he's for a Public Option:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20090817_Specter__VA_head_to_speak_with_veterans_here.html

Specter also told reporters that he still favored the so-called "public option" for a national health care system, despite reports that the Obama administration might be shifting its support to some kind of "co-op" plan.

Maybe they are not aware of Heather's situation. I will call both their offices tomorrow and tell them about her as well as emailing a link to Rachel's coverage of the story. Maybe they can help her.

[Historic NY]

13. Did she apply to the Crime Victims Compensation Board.. it covers related medical expenses

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=512&objID=5415&&PageID=495646&level=3&css=L3&mode=2

[sabrina 1]

16. Great, thank you. Is that a state-run organization?

I'm surprised no one told her about it. Wish she had an email listed ...

[Historic NY]

23. in NY it covers everyone including injured law enforcement....

its routine here they send out a brochure detailing your rights as a victim.

[sabrina 1]

39. Thanks for the reply

I wonder if they have it in PA as that would seem like a good option for the victims who have no coverage.

[PA Democrat]

15. The Republican Health Care Plan

[dugaresa]

17. I have said this repeatedly to friends regarding car washes, spaghetti dinner and bake sales for

health care fundraisers. we should be ashamed as a nation.

[Obamanaut]

18. I wish we would stop reelecting the same politicians year after year

for a full career, complaining about their performance the entire time.

"I wish politicians would stop using these tragedies to go on TV and offer their 'sympathies' to the victims. They just don't care about the American people and they should stop pretending they do."

Every two years we have the opportunity for change - 100% of one group, 33% of the other - but we keep the same ones at about a 92% rate.

[Vinca]

19. I wonder if Americans started begging Hugo Chavez for medical care

if that would shame the United States into providing health care for its citizens. Give a few dictators some press for donating whatever services their country can offer and make those opposing reform look like home grown terrorists.

[sabrina 1]

20. In the movie 'Sicko' Michael Moore

did exactly that.

This story about crime victims, pales before what has happened to the First Responders on 9/11 so many of whom are now sick, having been lied to about the dangers of the air they were breathing.

Some have tragically died and others are very sick. And some cannot afford the cost of care they need.

To shame this government, Michael Moore took a group of these people to Cuba to see if they would be treated. They were, with compassion and kindness and at no cost.

And what was our government's reaction? They threatened to arrest MM and confiscate the movie claiming he had violated a law that bans US citizens from visiting Cuba.

An excellent movie that should be seen by everyone, especially knowing the Healtcare Insurance Cos spent time and money attempting to discredit it.

You can see it here free:

http://www.freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=133

[raccoon]

21. Wonder if she can sue the killer's estate to pay for her medical bills?

I understand the SOB left a substantial estate.

[sabrina 1]

22. That's an excellent idea

He left about a quarter of a million dollars, airc. I wonder why no one has done that? Of course, there are so many victims, the three women he killed, eg, and at least nine others who were injured. She may be part of a suit, but these things take forever and the lawyers would get at least one third. So, her part of that probably would be quite small. Still, it is a good idea.

[Shallah Kali]

31. Yes but what of bill collectors in the mean time - hospitals, denists want payment soon

not when ever the legal wrangling over what victims get how much of the estate :( She might also develop ptsd and need treatment and that will be more money that might not get factored into the settlement :(

[liberalhistorian]

34. There should be a special spot in hell for debt collectrolls

who bother people in situations like this and for the hospitals who employ them. As a matter of fact, there should be a special spot in hell for medical debt collectors, period. I've watched friends and family members with serious illnesses have to deal with these goons while trying to fight their illness and maintain a somewhat positive attitude to get well. Even with insurance, serious illnesses can cost major bucks and the hospitals and doctors all want it NOW, period.

[sabrina 1]

42. I agree with that ~

I have also watched people try to stay cheerful as the bills come in after a major illness. Some without coverage, but not elegible for medicaid (too rich, earning over a few hundred $$$ a month). In the end, to stay sane, they just didn't open them. I don't know what kind of people take those jobs.

My sister worked for Aetna for a while and she said she felt so bad when elderly people would call, confused over their coverage. She said they were not supposed to spend time on the phone, it was all about numbers, how many 'problems' were handled in an hour. She could not do it, and she quit.

[sabrina 1]

35. Yes, I did wonder about that. And it looks like she wouldn't get

much from his estate as there are so many other victims (nine altogether who were injured, I think). She probably already received bills for the treatment she got right after the shooting.

I don't know why but I never thought about people like Heather and other victims of crimes like this, not being able to afford treatment. I just assumed it was available to them. That's why this was such a shock. All the Candle-light vigils and news coverage and seeming concern for them. It really brings home just how cruel our Healthcare system is.

[Statistical]

37. Not a complete solution but when suing a 3rd party a competent lawyer can

request a stay in debt collections.

Our lawyer did this for us when we sued Allstate after a car accident.

We signed a couple pieces of paper and all the bills went the the lawyers office.

Once Allstate settled the lawyer paid the medical bills on our behalf from the funds, took his 35% cut, and issued us a check for the balance.

If I am ever injured due to someone elses negligence my first phone call will be to the lawyer. I tried to deal w/ insurance companies myself and it was a nightmare.

Nothing like telling a bill collector or insurance company. "I have retained counsel. It is against the law for you to continue to speak to me. Please call my lawyer at xxx-xxx-xxxx. I will notify counsel of any further attempts to contact me".

Our lawyer gave us a little script on a business card and we left it next to the phone. They stop very quickly because speaking to someone once they retained counsel is illegal and they can be counter sued just for that.

[liberalhistorian]

33. Actually, I've read recently that two of the victims have

served notice to his estate that they plan to sue the estate during the probate. Good for them, and I hope they get every penny they deserve. He'd left the $250,000 to a university in his will (can't remember now which university), but the president of it rejected the bequest, which was good to hear, especially since many colleges are really struggling right now. His estate should be the one to pay for her medical expenses.

[Historic NY]

24. the Crime Victims Board can petition for that money.

[sabrina 1]

26. Thanks for your response above about that organization

I wasn't aware of it. I did know about victims' rights as family members who were robbed were given information on them. But they mostly played a supportive role. There was no information on financial assistance.

I was going to ask you who finances the organization, is it state or federal money? If they can go after the criminals for money, probably that would help also. I looked at their website, and they do have lawyers as members.

[Statistical]

25. If he has a substantial estate then yes she can....

the problem is most crime is criminals often have no wealth.

His estate would be in probate so hopefully she has a lawyer who already has filed against the estate.

Likely could sue for far, far, far beyond the medical costs.

[PA Democrat]

30. Local news has reported that several victims have files suit against his estate.

I think his entire estate was valued at only about $150,000, so given the number of victims, it won't help much. In his will, he had left his estate to the University of Pittsburgh, but they right away announced that they had no plans to accept the money because it was assumed that the money would go to the victims.

[justgamma]

27. I took a "donation" can with some pennies to the last townhall

I went to. If one person had stood up and said "the best health care in the world" I was going to shake that thing in their face.

[sabrina 1]

28. Too bad you didn't get a chance to do it.

It would make a great ad though and the sad thing is most charitable orgs are running out of money themselves.

But that's the Republican Solution. What they really mean is if you are disabled, or too young or old to 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' they really don't care what happens to you.

[Shallah Kali]

40. That is an excellent idea just write Republican Health Care Plan on it

for neighbors to volunteer to take care of each other in the event of illness and accident like Sen. Coburn (R-C Street) advises http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/sanchez-asks-what-tom-coburn-going-do-abou

[Bozita]

53. That's brilliant!

I see those jars/cans in just about every mom 'n pop shop around here.

[Odin2005]

32. OMG, that is fucking INHUMAN!

:grr: :cry:

[Quantess]

36. People without insurance should know better than to get shot in the leg.

[sabrina 1]

41. So true, what was she thinking ~

Just to be on the safe side I better add this :sarcasm:

Although it's not so far-fetched. People without HC do try hard, mostly by praying, not to get sick.

[liberalhistorian]

50. In addition to praying, those of us without insurance

try hard to be proactive and "preventive" with out health; iow, try our best to eat right, exercise, get enough sleep, reduce stress, take vitamins and supplements, avoid a lot of processed foods and fat and sugar, etc., etc. But that doesn't entirely prevent things from happening, and it terrifies me that hubby or I could get a major illness or injury before we get insurance; we'll really be screwed financially then.

[Quantess]

52. I figured I didn't need the sarcasm tag.

The sarcasm tag becomes slightly less crucial after you reach 1000 posts.
;)

I'm so frustrated with the health care issue, sarcasm is sometimes all I can manage.

[sabrina 1]

55. I know what you mean.

And I never doubted it was sarcasm, lol!

[Joe the Liberal]

43. How absolutely ridiculous......

to have to raise money via a car wash just to pay for hospital bills. Remind me, what's so great about America again?

[sabrina 1]

44. Well, 'we have the greatest healthcare system in the world?'

Just kidding. But Republicans aren't when they say this. I don't know why we have tolerated it for so long. I think people probably didn't realize how bad it was. I didn't because I didn't have coverage and assumed those who had were fine.

A few years ago I read an article titled 'USA, numero uno no more'. Our media, healthcare system, education system, torture policies, pre-emptive strike policies, poverty rates, International Disapproval rates causing a decline in foreign student applications and tourism, all were given as reasons for the decline of America.

[juno jones]

47. A cook in one of the restaurants I work in

has been in the hospital the last week for complications from a stabbing that happened several years ago. the waitressess are taking up a collection from their tips to try to help him.


This is all so sick and unecessary. For crime victims everywhere we need Universal Health Care now.

[sabrina 1]

48. Sorry about your friend. I hope he recovers, emotionally

as well as physically. Sad that people who earn so little themselves, have to be the ones to help him, but wonderful that they are doing so. Because they are human and our Reps for the most part, are without those human feelings for other people.

You are right, It is sick. Not one other civilized country would leave its citizens to die for want of healthcare, let alone, victims of crime.

I keep wondering when Americans will come to grips with the fact that their government does not care about them at all. Maybe the French Govt doesn't care about the people of France either, but the people there have forced them to care or lose their jobs.

[juno jones]

51. Well said.

Welcome. :hi:

[redqueen]

49. Yes... sick and unnecessary... but corporatists,

and those who are too ignorant to see through their BS... apparently are fine with it.

[LeftistGorilla]

54. Embarrassing....

[KESPGHPA]

56. Heather Sherba

I wanted to clear a few things up about Heather Sherba

She was a RECENT college grad trying to find a job, NOT a
member of the gym was there on a guest pass, not a spoiled
princess as some are implying. I only met her after the
shooting. Trust me this girl would rather be anywhere but the
center of a fight about health care reform,or a shooting
victim or someone who has to go to therapy for Gods sake she
was SHOT TWICE once in the tooth by a monster, the emotional
scars will never heal!!!

Domestic violence will pay $35 thousand of her bills but there
will be LOTS more. Physical Therapy alone will cost a fortune.
I personally racked up a few thousand WITH health insurance.

Her case should not be used for health care reform, the media
is exploiting this tragedy

George Sedoni did not have a sizable estate by the time legal
fees, and everyone gets done, remember there is a minor left
behind with mo mother there will be nothing left.

The car wash was to help with her expenses, her high school
friends threw it nand the community support was AMAZING but to
see it politicized is heart breaking

[sabrina 1]

58. Hi, and thank you for your post

I am sorry to hear that anyone is characterizing Heather as a 'spoiled princess'. I have not seen anyone do that and would definitely have a lot to say about it if I did. Certainly no one on this board has done so, as far as I know.

Sadly, as a victim of a highly publicized crime, as with all the other victims, her story was in the news. People were shocked to learn that she would be saddled with enormous bills for the care she will need. I suppose most people assumed that victims of crimes would be taken care of. They certainly are in all other countries that are part of the civilized world. It WAS a shock to learn that this is not case in this country.

But, having said all that, I can definitely understand someone not wanting their lives to be in the public domain.

If it is her wish to remain private, then I'm sure that will be respected. I posted the story as it was a news story and we had no indication that Heather might have objections to her story being public.

I will not, assuming you speak for her, refer to her case again personally, if that is her wish. There are literally millions of stories equally disturbing, some I know personally, that can be pointed to to illustrate the sorry state of our healthcare system. No one should have to give a second thought to how to pay for medical care when they need it.

What her friends did was wonderful and I wish her well and a full recovery both physically and emotionally in the future.

[Quantess]

59. "Domestic violence will pay $35 thousand of her bills .."

What are you talking about?
Self Edit: Sorry, my unedited post was a little less polite.

[sabrina 1]

60. I wondered about that also

I assume the commenter will be back as I am anxious to know if s/he speaks for Heather.

Re 'domestic violence' paying some of the cost. It's possible there is some organization that helps victims of Domestic Violence with their medical bills, but I don't know if this tragedy could be classified as a 'domestic violence' incident. None of the victims had any relationship with the killer.

Will do some research on this. It would be a good thing but I was not aware that organizations that help domestic violence victims had that kind of money. Good news if they do.

[KESPGHPA]

61. Heather Sherba

She is just so young to even understand any of it. It is
opening up wounds that are no where near healed. I should have
left the princess remark out here because no one here on this
board said it, it was mentioned at a town hall meeting in
jersey that the person  said " I bet she had a cell phone
and a gym membership and chose not to have health care"
That is so far from the truth, she has a degree and no one is
hiring nurses at this time. Pretty much what I am saying is as
a recent college grad seeking a job she had  not found one
yet, hence her lack of health insurance. This girl doesn't
even own a computer

I have learned alot from this shooting and YES the actual
place paying is center for victims of violent crimes not
domestic violence will pay 35 thousand, I was stunned to learn
they have that kind of money and have decided when I give to
charity it will be them!! We have always referred to is as
domestic violence but realized not everyone knows who that is

Heather along with the other victims are still very scared and
VERY reminded of it, too fresh. Sadly this story NOT yours but
the Media bringing it out all over again and really using it
for a case to push health care reform is horrible. As a mother
of 2 young girls that is how I became involved in helping host
the car wash to assist her until she got on her feet.

Please understand I was not attacking any of you just i
suppose protecting Heather. 

[sabrina 1]

62. Hi again, KESPGHPA

Thank you so much for the information you provided. I fully understand, and I think everyone here also, what a nightmare that experience was for all the victims. I think most people feel terribly shocked that added to the trauma both emotional and physical, that victims of crimes must also face huge medical bills.

I am sorry that anyone would say such things about Heather or anyone else who has been already so hurt. I just wantedyou to know that most of us who read this story have nothing but sympathy and compassion for the victims. You sound like a wonderful person who is helping as much as you can. Your little girls are lucky to have such a caring mom.

I also understand how scared they must still be and as I said, will respect Heather's desire to remain private myself.

As for the media using the story, I think most of us in this country have had personal experiences, or have known others (speaking for me, I know someone who would probably be alive today if he had had proper health insurance) who have been faced with thousands of $$ worth of medical expenses, some losing their homes and savings because of an illness. That is why I am interested in the issue. Someday I will tell the story of my friend, but it is difficult to tell right now so I do understand re-opening wounds that are still painful. Otoh, I will tell the story if it helps someone else not to just accept a system that will allow someone to die because of money.

I am glad to hear about that organization as I was not aware of it. It is good to have information like that. I agree it would be a worthy charity to donate to.

Again, thank you for taking the time to talk to us about your experience and your views are respected by me and I'm sure others who may read them.

No need to apologize btw, I was not aware of any other discussion about Heather and am sorry that people were so unkind.

[TomCADem]

57. K & R - This is the status of our healthcare system