So, I'm p0wning this tool on Facebook...

[The Animator]

Some of the names have been changed to protect the privacy of the innocent, and since I felt I must, the privacy of the Tool in question as well... I've kept my real name because I'm proud of what I've said and I'm not hiding it.



Original Poster:
Come tomorrow to support, look for me in attendance! :)

(This is not a rally or a protest. it is an event to put the spotlight on the human individuals challenges with our current system.)

I look forward to seeing you all there.
6 hours ago



Tool:
Ah, start with Obama on how to break, broken healthcare. Think about it, if healthcare was that broken.... Your wife would not have a job. Hmmm.
6 hours ago



Tool:
Why should the educated and working pay for the lazy and unwilling? If anyone needs help, they should start with helping themselves.
6 hours ago



Original Poster:
respectfully disagree.....you helped an unfortunate person yesterday, right? Many others are out in this country that dont have this piece of security to their lives and they have lost everything because of healthcare. This issues is not about Obama, the conservatives or democrats. It is a moral issue. We have to do what is right, i beg you to come out and hear these stories. You wont regret it.
6 hours ago



Charles Fernandez:
So it's the educated ones carrying signs that say "Keep your government away from my Medicare"?

The stupid... it burns!!

It is possible to work full time and still not be able to afford health insurance. Some companies only offer part time positions to avoid paying out benefits....

There are plenty of computer programmers out there bagging groceries or flipping burgers at minimum wage because their former employers decided to outsource all the white collar jobs.

Being poor isn't a crime...being poor and sick shouldn't be a death sentence.
3 hours ago · Delete


Tool:
Oh, we could go on and on. Many good people need things but too many lazy asses in this country that just want things and do not feel THEY should have to work for it.
A chain is only as good as it's weakest link.
about an hour ago

Charles Fernandez:
So the countless working poor and middle class citizens who could really benefit from this program should suffer and die because a few people might try to take advantage of the system... Cry me a frickin' river.

You got yours so screw everybody else right? Well for your sake I hope it lasts.

Never mind that if it passes you would also be eligible for the program. But of course, if you feel such a thing is beneath you, you could keep your current health insurance, of course you might be paying less for it since they'd have to lower their rates to compete with a cheaper public option.... Read More

There are lazy asses in every society, there will always be people who think they can get something for nothing... I've dealt with them... everyone has dealt with them.. The existence of people with this mindset should not deter us from helping people who really need it, who really deserve it, but just can't afford it.
2 seconds ago ·

[yellerpup]

1. Keep talking, CF!

You have a lot more patience with dim bulbs than i do. Hope you can flip him, but he seems pretty propagandized. :kick:

[OnyxCollie]

2. Repubs LOVE to feel superior

no matter how stupid they are.

[seemunkee]

3. Tool already pays for them

Those people end up in the ER or a burden on the state in other ways.

It was once said that the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.
- Hubert H. Humphrey

[Hissyspit]

9. $1,100 per person in the country in uncompensated costs annually

For hospitals is the approximate number, I believe.

[ejpoeta]

4. the thing is, i find that most of the people who bitch about lazy people trying to get something for

nothing tend to be people who expect things for nothing. I am by no means saying everyone, but usually the loudest ones complaining. they'd probably be the first to rush in the line to get some federal help were there some sort of natural disaster... even if their damage were minimal compared to others. I can't help but wonder as I watch the news regarding residents in gowanda who got slammed about a month ago and are still struggling to clean up. Some interviewed had some damage to their garage... some had their basements flooded.... some lost everything. Some said they weren't expecting anything from the government, though help would be nice. I think help SHOULD be there. but I wonder how many who are complaining it isn't coming fast enough (which weren't any that they showed being interviewed btw) don't want healthcare reform or government run anything. this is out buffalo way, which tends to be more democratic. so maybe not many. but ever since this healthcare debate has started, I wonder these things.

We all need a little help sometimes. A hand up. Everyone does. Some of us have family to help us in those times. I have been there. And my family was right there. But there are those that do not have anyone. And you are left at the mercy of if you are sympathetic, I guess. Healthcare should not be one of those things that you are at the mercy of someone else's kindness. It's like they want you to be sufficiently kissing someone's feet to get their help. I just don't understand it. It's not so much about the uninsured as it is about everyone..... If everyone is covered, then everyone benefits. Costs go down.... sick people will go to the doctor instead of waiting until they need an operation or worse. How do they not see this benefits them. Folks with the H1N1 flu would be less likely to just walk around breathing on everyone and working and shopping and trying to ignore it thus possibly spreading it around to more people.

But, as long as they've got theirs.... well, for now. but that may not always be the case. As long as they can get away with it, the insurance companies will keep us in an insecure place regarding our healthcare. And there may come a time when people like this tool will find themselves without a job and no insurance and then someone will call them lazy and they will need to BEG for some help from someone because they are sick and have no insurance.

[zbdent]

5. you hear them say "why should I pay for the lazy asses ... blah blah blah ..."

and then you hear them whining "Where's MY stimulus?" "Why can't I get the job? I'm the new oppressed minority ... a white heterosexual man!"

by their logic ... they should have been billionaires already ... they've been working hard and such, right?

[Hepburn]

6. KNR....

...nice job! :applause:

Hope this makes the greatest page ~~ your points are excellent!

[booley]

7. Some of those "lazy people" work 2 jobs

Gawd this pisses me off when people say "they are just lazy so they deserve to die"

Seriously, it almost makes me violent.

I've heard even more colorful names then "lazy" like parasite and Leeches.

OF course the lazy include people who work for minimum wage, often multiple jobs with kids and don't get benefits.

Forget death panels and socialism and that crap.

Cons don't want health care because somehow somewhere someone who isn't them will benefit. And cons cant' stand that even if they benefit as well.

[Johonny]

8. tell him he will burn in hell

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
That God apparently thinks he should help the lazy asses out should be really welcomed by him.


"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

[dgibby]

10. The truth about these tools is they like having the less fortunate around.

That way, they can have something to feel superior about. Small people with small minds and overblown egos.

[The Animator]

11. The Douche Baggery Continues...

There's a new player that decided to weigh in on this issue... his compassion never ceases to amaze me... for the sake of his privacy, I'm renaming him Douche....



Tool:
Put the goverment hands into anything and it will go to shit. Healthcare is just one of the many problems.
5 hours ago



Douche:
It's Tool's choice to help someone now. We'll remove that choice with this. Solidarity, comrades! Let's force the middle class and rich to pay for the dregs of society! They did not educate themselves or work their way out of a culture of mediocrity and disdain, lets bail them out of that!

Lets be serious, this would effectively eliminate private and employer provided health insurance, they are already at razor thin profit margins, they will not attract the amount of investor money they need to succeed.

Tort reform, deregulation and FDA changes would do leaps and bounds more for the common man, even the poor man than would a "public option." You won't see politicians argue for that, because they get tons of campaign money from corrupt trial lawyers who pursue these ridiculous lawsuits.... Read More

Still no one, with cold facts, has been able to show how a public option would change the market for the better.
4 hours ago



Original Poster:
As always, a different view on this results into different beliefs.

we can argue the facts, ideas, and overall basis of a universal, co-op, or no program at all. Whatever that results in you come back to a point of people that cannot afford healtcare are left out. Maybe it is hard to relate sitting in the middle class? We are fortunate ... Read Morepeople and dont have to encounter these issues. I challenge everyone to come to this vigil and listen to the stories of honest, american, people. Who are NOT SCUMBAGS, Who are NOT UN-Educated, and who are not leeching off a system. They are people like us that had legititmate 'life' things happen.

This is not a right, left, obama, or Kennedy issue. This is a moral issue. A security to allow our socitey to move forward and continue to prosper. Their is a way gents. Come tonight and here these stories.
2 hours ago

Douche:
Life happens. A shitload of life has happened to me.

But you know what, I gave up other things to have health insurance. Ask the next homeless man you see carrying a cell phone where his priorities lie.

Yes, let's argue facts. ... Read More

Here's one: government should not be involved in morality issues, period. Abortion, drug enforcement, health care, it's not a government issue, and certainly not a FEDERAL government issue. Remember states rights caused the civil war.
2 hours ago


Original Poster:
Goverment should Govern! issues that derail the human life should be handled by the worlds # 1 country. Dont tell me you agree with the Tenn. senator?

Douche, you obviously have been through a lot. You are successful and should be proud. Hell, I know I am. But not everyone has the same fortune. Speaking to hundreds on this issue I have learned more than you will believe on how broken the system is. People getting dropped by their plan because of 'pre' conditions, people loosing jobs and healthcare, people working and cant afford it.

Charles brings up a good point. Your example of a homeless man with a cell phone. Douche, really? you are smarter than that. Most people we discuss are not homeless, they are not leeches, they are citizens like us. With some stuff that occurred that has derailed them. The irony of this is it can happen to us........ Read More

Just fighting for the little guy!
about an hour ago


Douche:
They cannot be dropped by an active plan for pre-existing conditions. It's part of the portability act.

If they lapse in payment or coverage, of course they can be denied future insurance. It's insurance, not a healthcare discount/freebie plan. (Although those are out there, look at VSP for vision plans that aren't insurance.)

What's wrong with my example? It happens. I've seen it with both my eyes. (Granted my vision sucks. LOL)
about an hour ago



Original Poster:
i did not mean being dropped under the existing plan for pre-existing conditions. I meant not being able to get coverage.

did you see the medi-vac in LA, 25 thousand un-insured people arrived for care......seems like a thrid world country would benefit from those services and not americans
about an hour ago



Charles Fernandez:
I love that people will get up in the morning and watch the news as it recaps the latest shuttle launch, then drive on a federally funded interstate, arrive at a job that meets the safety standards set in place by OSHA, listens to the radio in his office and hears about a wildfire that was put out by local firefighters, a bank robbery that was foiled by cops, and then complains about how everything the government touches turns to shit while they sit in an SUV with a "Support Our Troops" ribbon magnet, and wait for their kids to be dropped off by a public school bus..

And Douche, if a homeless guy is talking to himself... it's not because he's using a hands free, he's probably just crazy.

[The Animator]

12. ...and continues...

Douche:
Portability is part of that act, OP.

Charles- (I've always called you Charlie, why so serious? :D)

I've always said certain infrastructure projects and law enforcement should be government entities. Certainly NOT Federal government entities.... Read More

And, yes, OSHA is a joke too.
45 minutes ago



Douche:
Niko- also, why should an insurer have to take on a certain risk for someone with a pre-existing condition? If they forced that upon them then what would be the point of carrying insurance altogether? I'd wait to buy a policy til I needed treatment, have them pay for it, then drop the coverage. You'd be dumb not to. They simply have to protect themselves against it, and this is the most logical way to do it.
43 minutes ago



Charles Fernandez:
Thank you, Douche, for making a solid argument in *favor* of government health care. Yes, a private insurance company is looking out for it's own best interests by denying people with pre-existing conditions, or terminal illnesses... A private insurance company is a business, and businesses are supposed to make money... it only makes sense for them to avoid signing people that could be described as "walking money pits".

However, that person with the pre-existing condition still exists, and still needs health care... more than likely they need it pretty desperately, and they need it more than most...

People with genetic disorders, birth defects, cancers,... you don't contract these things through laziness... They occur on their own, and affect people whether they are productive members of society or not.

That's where the health care program would come in.. To provide affordable health care to people who would otherwise be denied by private insurance companies.

[The Animator]

13. And to sum up...

Douche:
Who pays for the public option?
4 hours ago



Charles Fernandez
I will.
4 hours ago · Delete



Charles Fernandez
It's something I want this country to have. So I will pay for it gladly.
4 hours ago · Delete


... I haven't heard from them since. The end...

[The Animator]

14. *sigh* ... alas... it is not over... it simply continues onto another facebook thread

Douche:
Why haven't the other options been seriously considered? What about replacing the EIC with a refundable tax credit that can be used to pay for healthcare? If they don't use it, then it's their fault.
Yesterday at 9:27pm


OP:
"My friend Dave, 56 years old, died of 80% curable Hodgekins disease last month. He had no health insurance and had therefore had very sporadic care. Without the right kind of care, it took over 2 years to diagnose him. By that time he was in stage 4. The round of chemo he chose to take killed him. We can't help but think that if he had had ... Read Moreinsurance and therefore proper medical attention, that he would have at least had a shot at an 80% survival rate. When he died, I thought "What is wrong with our country? Are we third world?". Well, I think we are for a huge number of Americans. It is shameful and unnecessary. Do the right thing and reform our healthcare system so that everyone gets the attention they need."
Yesterday at 10:00pm



OP:
Real people, real issues.

Public Option NOW!
Yesterday at 10:00pm



Douche:
You're skirting the actual issue. Doctors and insurance companies run razor thin profit margins. The market cannot support this, and all the doctors that have moved to practice here because it's the only place where medicine is mildy profitable will leave, after all eventually you will run out of other people's money.
Yesterday at 10:10pm



Charles Fernandez
Well, I don't have info on some of the smaller Insurance companies, but I did find out that the CEO of the Blackstone Group, Stephen Schwarzman, made $702,000,000 this year...

To be fair, does top the list of the highest paid CEOs ...

I dunno Douche, ... maybe your idea of razor thin is a little wider than mine.
14 hours ago · Delete


Douche:
Blackstone is a private equity firm. They do have insurance holdings but are not major players. Profit margins and profits are two very different things.
8 hours ago


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And that pretty much sums up the Health Care thread... Later on our OP put's something else up and it degenerates into general Obama Bashing...