AutoNation CEO: "Clunkers program one of the most successful stimulus programs of all time"

[scheming daemons]

Cash for Clunkers was "one of the most successful stimulus programs of all time" that has helped the auto industry on its road to recovery, AutoNation CEO Mike Jackson told CNBC.

"The worst is over," Jackson said in a live interview Wednesday. "This was a necessary shot in the arm for the industry. We're on the way to a gradual recovery."

The four-week period during which the "Clunkers" program ran yielded 700,000 sales, he said, nearly 10-times the normal volume for that period. Under the program, car owners were able to take their gas-guzzlers to dealerships and get credit that ran up to $4,500 per vehicle.

But the industry is rebounding on its own, Jackson said, and the program only accelerated the process.

.
.
.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/32654628




Not quite the scale of the most successful stimulus program of all time (WWII), but on a small scale... pretty successful.

[bluestateguy]

1. Next time, I would prefer only allowing the vouchers to be used for American cars

If nothing else because it would make Richard Shelby (R-Mercedes-Benz) go apeshit.

[Craftsman]

3. Like the Toyota Tundra, made in San Antonio or Honda Elements made in Ohio?

I agree the cars should be required to have been assembled in the US withe teh majority of US parts.

[scheming daemons]

6. What about a Chrysler that was made in Canada?

That's what the "buy American" folks don't realize. Their GM, Ford, or Chrysler is almost as likely to have been made somewhere else.

[Romulox]

10. Nonsense that you cannot back up with a citation.

Specifically, "Their GM, Ford, or Chrysler is almost as likely to have been made somewhere else."

:hi:

[scheming daemons]

12. Here's your citation:

If you own any of these "American" vehicles, they were likely assembled in Canada:

Chrysler Chrysler Pacifica
Chrysler Town & Country
Dodge Caravan
Dodge Magnum
Chrysler 300 series
Dodge Charger

Ford Crown Victoria
Mercury Grand Marquis
Freestar
Mercury Monterey
Edge
Lincoln MKX
Flex

General Motors
Chevrolet Impala
Chevrolet Monte Carlo
Buick Allure
Pontiac Grand Prix
Chevrolet Equinox
Pontiac Torrent
Chevrolet Silverado
GMC Sierra
Diesel Locomotives
Light Armored Vehicles


http://www.canadianmade.com/automotive.shtml


Some more grist:

http://cars.about.com/b/2006/09/03/2009-chevrolet-camaro-to-be-built-in-canada.htm




You just can't come to grips with the fact that a good percentage of "American-made" cars were not made in America at all.... and a good percentage of "Foreign" cars were.

Doesn't matter what facts I cite or what links I provide. You have a narrative in your head that won't allow you to accept that simple truth.

[Romulox]

13. In other words, you can't back it up, because it isn't true.

Specifically, your claim: "Their GM, Ford, or Chrysler is almost as likely to have been made somewhere else."

The information you supply does not support this claim. But you knew that.

[scheming daemons]

22. How doesn't it support the claim?

I listed several "American" models that are assembled in Canada. Many are the most popular models sold by those companies.


It absolutely backs up the assertion of the average GM, Ford, or Chrysler owner is just as likely to have had their vehicle assembled in Canada as in the U.S.

[Romulox]

26. You said, "Their GM, Ford, or Chrysler is almost as likely to have been made somewhere else."

That's a claim that calls for hard numbers, not a list of cars made in Canada.

"It absolutely backs up the assertion of the average GM, Ford, or Chrysler owner is just as likely to have had their vehicle assembled in Canada as in the U.S."

Oh dear. It may "back up" such an assertion, but it doesn't prove that assertion. You make a numeric claim not supported by any numbers! :hi:

Judge: Mr. Hutz w've been in here for four hours. Do you have any evidence at all?
Lionel Hutz: Well, Your Honor, we have plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence.

Yours is a kind of logic...

[scheming daemons]

25. I provided links that support the claim.... you chose to ignore the links.... n/t

[Romulox]

27. You don't even understand the *type* of evidence required to support your claim!

Hint: numbers.

Double "oh dear"! :wow:

[scheming daemons]

29. Here's numbers... that you'll ignore....

....because anything that goes against your "Go Detroit!" mania and misinformation campaign, you conveniently ignore


Here are some real numbers for you, that you'll conveniently ignore:

Ford Focus: 60% Domestic parts, assembled in US

Toyota Camry: 80% Domestic parts, assembled in US

Source: http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/inthenews/07-10-06.html


Now... answer this question: Which vehicle purchase is better for the US economy, the Ford Focus or the Toyota Camry? Which do you consider to be a "domestic" car?

I don't expect you to answer. You ask a lot of questions, then subsequently ignore the answers... but you almost never ANSWER questions of you.

[blue_onyx]

34. First...

The Corolla would be a better comparison for the Focus. Smaller cars are harder to produce in the US because the companies make less money from them. This is why no sub-compacts are made in the US. GM will build the only subcompact in the US soon...but only as an concession to the unions, not becasue it makes sense cost wise.

Anyway, in 2009 Focus had 50% domestic content and the Corolla had 50% domestic content. Yes, the Focus is from an American company and is better for the economy.

[Romulox]

39. Your numbers do not speak to your claim. You must understand that.

So I can only assume you're being a clown. :hi:

[scheming daemons]

42. In other words, you're dodging my questions....

...as usual.

[Romulox]

44. You'll need to substantiate your bogus claim upthread before earning the right to change the subject

"Their GM, Ford, or Chrysler is almost as likely to have been made somewhere else."

This is a claim that is substantiated with hard numbers that express the overall US content of American car producers versus others.

You have not presented any hard numbers to this effect, but rather presented only isolated anecdotal evidence and a list of cars. None of which is responsive to the question.

Either you don't understand this, or you're dishonest. Which is it? :hi:

[blue_onyx]

15. Many of those foreign "Amercian-made" vehicles

have less domestic content than foreign built vehicles from the US companies. For example, the Hyundai Sonata built in Alabama only has 37% domestic content whereas the Mexican built Ford Fusion has 40% domestic content.

[Romulox]

18. He's not going to answer this. nt

[Craftsman]

19. Not assembled in US, no cash from the tax payers.

[scheming daemons]

24. So... by your own admission... a Ford Fusion is 60% foreign made

That kind of proves my point, don't you think?

The point being... there's no longer any such thing as an "American" car or a "foreign" car. Every car is a mixture of foreign and American parts and labor.

Therefore, complaining that 50% of cars sold in Cash-for-Clunkers were "foreign" cars makes no sense. You're only complaining about the nameplate on a vehicle.


Bottom line... based on your own example of a Sonata and Fusion.... is that the "stimulative" effect on the American economy is about the same.


Arguing that there should have been a "buy American" restriction on Cash-for-Clunkers is silly. By your own admission, a person buying a Fusion sent 60% out of the country... and it preserved a job in MEXICO. A person buying a Sonata sent 63% out of the country... but it preserved a job in the United States.

Are you going to argue that the Fusion sale was better for the American economy than the Sonata sale?

[blue_onyx]

32. No

I was simply pointing out that the American-made foreign vehicles were no more American that the foreign built US vehicles.


"Are you going to argue that the Fusion sale was better for the American economy than the Sonata sale?"

Yes, particularly for my area. A sale for Ford is better for my local economy than a sale for Hyundai. Also, the Fusion now has 55% domestic content. The Hyundai 2009 numbers weren't posted which is why I used 2008 for my comparison.

I also don't have a problem with cars being produced in Canada. Most data about how "American" something is includes Canada and the US together. Companies don't go to Canada to avoid unions, pay people less, and provide fewer benefits. The foreign auto companies have led the race to the bottom as we have seen the employees of the US companies forced into cutting their wages/benefits to be "competitive" with the foreign companies.

If you look at all companies, the US companies use a larger percentage of domestic parts.

"Detroit's Big 3 derived about 77% of their parts from U.S. and Canadian factories from domestic sources. That compares with slightly less than half for Japanese brands overall, according to the Automotive Trade Policy Council, which represents the domestic manufacturers in trade issues. Among Japanese brands, Honda had the most domestic content at 59%."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-03-22-american-usat_N.htm

BTW, your previous post (with the list of Canadian cars) is a little outdated. The Mercury Monterey and Ford Freestar have been out of production since 2006. The Chrysler Pacifica and Chevrolet Monte Carlo stopped production in 2007. Pontiac Grand Prix last model year was in 2008. Also, the Buick Allure (which is called the LaCrosse outside of Canada) is now produced in Kansas.

[bluestateguy]

8. Perhaps a half voucher for foreign cars built in the US

that's my compromise.

[Craftsman]

14. How about id assmebled in US with 60%+ US part it get money

If not no sale.

[Romulox]

17. That's too low (just over half). 80% or more. nt

[Craftsman]

20. At that percentage many US makers' cars won't qualify

I once had a 2001 jeep with a toyota transmission.

[Romulox]

21. So the government will incentivize building more sub-assemblies here in the US

The problem with this being? :shrug:

[scheming daemons]

30. So..... you're advocating the inclusion of these vehicles:

Toyota Sienna USA 85% DOMESTIC
Toyota Camry USA 80% DOMESTIC
Toyota Tundra USA 80% DOMESTIC
Isuzu Ascender (GM) 85% DOMESTIC
Isuzu i-Series (GM) 85% DOMESTIC


And the exlusion of these:

Dodge Durango 79% DOMESTIC
Dodge Stratus 78% DOMESTIC
Dodge Dakota 77% DOMESTIC
Chrysler Sebring 77% DOMESTIC
Jeep Commander 76% DOMESTIC
Mercury Montego 75% DOMESTIC
Chevrolet Uplander 75% DOMESTIC
Chevrolet Cobalt 75% DOMESTIC


I thought you were gung-ho "buy American!"

Toyota thanks you for your support. Dodge, not so much.



On edit.... Source:
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/inthenews/07-10-06.html

[Romulox]

40. No offense, but the meanings of ordinary words seem to escape you.

:hi:

[pampango]

41. Cars.com does an annual list of the "Top American-made Cars"

Cars have to be assembled in the US, have at least 75% domestic parts content (the higher the better), and purchased in large numbers in order to benefit American workers. "Domestic parts content" is a bit of a fudge because "AALA lumps U.S. and Canadian parts content together", so that there is not way to tell how much of the "domestic content" is from the US and how much from Canada.

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0709&referer=&aff=chitrib

What Are the Top American-Made Cars?

Cars.com's American-Made Index rates vehicles built and bought in the U.S. Factors include sales, where the car's parts are made and whether the car is assembled in the U.S. Models that have been discontinued are disqualified, as are those with a domestic-parts content rating below 75 percent. Cars.com's American-Made Index highlights the cars that are built here, have the highest amount of domestic parts — with eligible models having parts-content ratings of 75 percent or higher — and are bought in the largest numbers by Americans.

Rank Make/Model U.S. Assembly Location* Last Rank
1. Toyota Camry** Georgetown, Ky.;Lafayette, Ind. —
2. Ford F-150 Dearborn, Mich.;Claycomo, Mo. 1
3. Chevrolet Malibu*** Kansas City, Kan. 3
4. Honda Odyssey Lincoln, Ala. 7
5. Chevrolet Silverado 1500*** Fort Wayne, Ind. 8
6. Toyota Sienna Princeton, Ind. 6
7. Toyota Tundra San Antonio 5
8. GMC Sierra 1500*** Fort Wayne, Ind. —
9. Ford Taurus Chicago —
10. Toyota Venza Georgetown, Ky. —

"Which U.S.-Built Cars Have the Highest Domestic-Parts Content?

The American-Made Index rates cars built and bought in the U.S. Among our considerations are sales for each car, as they correlate to the number of U.S. autoworkers employed to build any given model and to build the parts that go into those same cars. If you're looking only at domestic-parts content ratings, build location and future status — i.e., cars that aren't facing imminent cancellation — here's what NHTSA lists as the top U.S.-built 2009 models:

Make/Model Domestic-parts content Assembly location
Ford Taurus 90 percent Chicago
Lincoln MKS 85 percent Chicago
Toyota Sienna 85 percent Princeton, Ind.
GMC Savana 1500 82 percent Wentzville, Mo.
Chevrolet Express 1500 82 percent Wentzville, Mo.
Buick Lucerne 81 percent Detroit
Chevrolet Malibu 80 percent Kansas City, Kan.
Honda Odyssey 80 percent Lincoln, Ala.
Toyota Avalon 80 percent Georgetown, Ky.
Toyota Tundra 80 percent San Antonio
Toyota Venza 80 percent Georgetown, Ky."

"Winnowing the field further to include only the cars assembled within this country eliminates a few would-be champs. The 2009 Chevrolet Impala and Buick LaCrosse, for example, are 85 percent domestic-content cars, according to NHTSA, but both are built in Ontario, Canada. (GM is moving production for the redesigned 2010 LaCrosse, however, to Kansas City, Kan.) Though assembly location doesn't necessarily guarantee that the U.S. portion of that AALA U.S./Canadian content will be any higher — with auto parts crossing the borders a dozen times or more , CAR project manager Debbie Menk said, the correlation is iffy at best — it does mean stateside assembly workers are employed building that car. In our book, that makes it more American."

Also, here is the link to the NHTSA's domestic content data base.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/Traffic%20Injury%20Control/Articles/Associated%20Files/AALA/AALA2009a.pdf

[Romulox]

45. It's ironic to see you post these numbers, seeing as you are vehemently against protecting US labor

Why would you care how much US content is in this or that car, seeing as you "care about all workers of the world equally"?

Answer? You don't. Your attempt is to undermine worker solidarity even while feigning support. Once again, you deploy the language of the Left in service of the goals of the Right.

[blue_onyx]

46. The first list makes no sense

There's no reason sales should be used in determining which vehicles are more "American."

[damonm]

43. Bad idea -

In case you hadn't noticed - car dealers have families as well.

[Romulox]

47. Right. US taxpayers should send money to foreign corporations. Because it's "free trade"!

Wait...it made more sense in my head. :silly:

[earthside]

2. Counting his chickens ... n/t

[Craftsman]

4. Translation: Please do it again after the next model year comes out.

[madrchsod]

5. there should be a "cash for obsolete furnaces and air conditioners"

since must if not all these are made in the usa it would really be a stimulus.

[scheming daemons]

7. Good idea... but need a catchier name than that...

[Deja Q]

23. Already in the works

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/JustOneThing/story?id=8374739

CNN was said to have something similar on one of its crawler lines (a week ago) too...

[taught_me_patience]

28. This would be extremely regressive

because only homeowners would be able to benefit. Renters, typically with lower incomes, would not benefit at all.

[gorfle]

37. Let it apply to apartment owners also then.

If apartments were outfitted with more energy-efficient appliances, the appliances those renters use would use less energy, and save those renters money.

[Romulox]

9. So if you work for a Hyundai dealership...good times! Everybody else?

[Winterblues]

11. I do not buy the argument that WW II was the most stimultive program

I think the end of the War created far more jobs and through the GI Bill the Middle Class exploded. During the War wages were very low, and many goods were actually rationed. Things such as sugar, gas, rubber, nylon, in fact a quite long list of goods rationed. I would not call that stimulating. Republicans have been using that old canard that war is good for business for a long time now and in fact their entire Party is mostly Profiteers but for the whole the US economy has done way better during Peace time.

[Kingofalldems]

16. It must have worked ----Fox news trashes it all the time

[taught_me_patience]

31. Edmunds CEO disagrees

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/315996/We-Didnt-Really-Need-Cash-for-Clunkers%2C-Edmunds.com-CEO-Says

The long term ramifications have not played out yet. If demand again falls off a cliff, we know the bulk of sales were simply demand shift and not incremental sales. Then, it would be one of the worst stimuluses of all time.

[blue_onyx]

35. Huh?

From the article you posted:

"Bottom line: American automakers have indeed benefited from the Clunkers program."

Some people are just determined to hate this program and call it a failure.

[taught_me_patience]

36. "I don't think we really needed it."

doesn't sound like an endorsement for the "greatest stimulus ever"


"I'm not sure, as I said, at the end of all this if we'll be able to point to a lot of sales that wouldn't have happened otherwise," Anwyl says. "I don't think we really needed it."

[blue_onyx]

38. Well,

"I don't think we really needed it."

The dealers stuck with 2009 models they were having a hard time selling, the customers who needed a new vehicle but couldn't afford one without the extra 3500-4500, and the employees called back to build more vehicles because of the increased demand would disagree.

[girl gone mad]

33. The numbers don't back him up..

especially for Chrysler.