South Carolina official resigns after she's linked to writing internet porn.

[Jane Austin]

More South Carolina fundie follies

This one is a jaw-dropper, as Mark Sanford's state education board chairman resigns after she is linked to writing internet porn.

http://www.thestate.com/local/story/923954.html

http://assme.org/2009/08/31/the-rather-porny-downfall-of-kristin-maguire/

http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/08/31/sex-education/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/9/1/41536/33475

(Edited to add links)

[WyLoochka]

1. A home schoolin' Christianist

mom of four writes porn? Not really too surprised here.

It was kind of surprising though that a home schooler made it to the Chairmanship of the State Board of Education.

But then again - it's South Carolina, so like my Dad always said "consider the source."

[BlooInBloo]

2. Wish there was a wiki page for her - would be interesting to know her qualifications.

[Romulox]

3. There must be some mistake. You don't "write" pron!

:wtf:

[redqueen]

4. Oh FFS.

Really?

[TransitJohn]

He' kind of right.

Usually pornography refers to graphical, visual depictions. "Erotica" is the term used when describing written sexual stimulus.

[redqueen]

17. Oh BS. "Erotica" describes the content, not the format. (nt)

[Romulox]

24. My answer was tongue in cheek, but I don't consider literature "pornographic" under any test I know.

Please see my response just below.

[redqueen]

26. Key word - "literature."

You may not have read it... cause the stuff is far from "literature."

It does, however, exist.

[Romulox]

33. "...is in the eye of the reader." nt

[redqueen]

35. Yep... you're an expert at this, all right.

:rofl:

[Romulox]

36. Sorry for having an opinion that differs from yours.

:shrug:

[Dogtown]

70. See my post, #69

There are some examples of erotic literature as well as other examples of pornographic writing explained there.

I'm not trying to bust anybodone's balls, just furthering the discussion. My guess is the "school mistress" was writing "confessional" fiction.

Just noticed the delicious coincidence of my prior post's symbolic number.

:rofl:

[LanternWaste]

89. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

"..is in the eye of the..."

Like porn. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[Dogtown]

69. Some IS "literature"

Don Juan and the writings of the Marquis come to mind. Smart folks like to get freaky, too.

In support of your premise, screen-plays must be written for XXX pornographic films, and that counts as "writing", doesn't it?

I believe there is a large audience for hard-core "confessional" erotic fiction, as well.

I know most of this thread is meant to be repartee, but sometimes I'm a bit of a nanny about accuracy in snarkiness, even if it's meant in fun.

[redqueen]

71. There is eroticism in literature of course...

I never meant to claim otherwise... I was simply stating that in referring to written porn, that stuff is most definitely not included. That's all.

[Dogtown]

72. I'm backing away

Too much niggling surfacing in this thread. That's not aimed at you. After I posted I read the rest of the thread, and the tone just doesn't suit my mood.

I actually support your side of this "controversy", but I'm not in the mood for scuffling today.



:hi:

[redqueen]

75. Hahahahaha...

I love that you put 'controversy' in quotes. Perfecto!

:hi:

[LanternWaste]

90. I imagine many people think that...

I imagine many people may think that "A Catholic Schoolgirl's Confessions of Bondage Camp" is considered literature... not anyone who actually reads literature, mind you. But I'm sure they're out there-- sucking the fumes from the local crop dusters before they begin the next riveting chapter of that great literary work... :P

[NashVegas]

52. You Never Saw the Books In My Dad's Apartment

We found after he died.

:rofl:

[Romulox]

56. I've read stories depicting sex.

I have to wonder if many of the respondents to this subthread aren't women? My guess is that our views on the subject may be heavily influenced by our genders. But I'm obviously no expert.

:shrug:

[NashVegas]

58. Let Me Put It This Way

The difference between erotic literature and porn is not unlike the difference between Psycho and Friday the 13th.

[redqueen]

59. LOL

Yep... you know!

I found similar books... so... yeah... I tend to think there's most definitely a difference. :)

[NashVegas]

60. Sure Wasn't Anais Nin

[Veruca Salt]

13. Oh yes you can...

go google 'fanfiction' and 'PWP'. Do you want some links? I can provide links... :evilgrin:

[Romulox]

21. I don't consider that sort of thing "pornographic" by any definition I know.

I guess I am most influenced by the "Miller" test:

The Miller test was developed in the 1973 case Miller v. California.<1> It has three parts:

* Whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,
* Whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions<2> specifically defined by applicable state law,
* Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value. (This is also known as the (S)LAPS test- Literary, Artistic, Political, Scientific.)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test

Under this test, I would not be able to find any literature that I've yet encountered "pornographic", though I will leave the door open that some may possibly exist. :shrug:

[blogslut]

27. The Miller test applies to Obscenity, not Pornography

There's a difference.

[Romulox]

31. Please describe the difference. I'm not aware of it. nt

[blogslut]

38. Obscenity is illegal. Pornography is not

n/t

[Romulox]

39. So "pornography" is defined only by a "I know it when I see it" standard?

Your point is taken, but the question remains: how can written words be "pornographic" under any basic definition of the term?

[blogslut]

50. The most common definition of pornography is

...material that has no other merit, other than to sexually arouse.

The confusion emanates from determining what is and is not meritorious. This is why the Supreme court maintains a hands-off stance as far as explicitly defining obscenity. Some video, print and Internet porn may be explicit but there is skill involved in the creation - the same as with adult entertainment in written form. Skill constitutes merit. As well, one person may consider a dirty movie nothing but trash, while another may consider it instructional or a means to relieve stress. The SCOTUS leaves the determination of Obscenity vs. Pornography up to the citizens via Community Standards.

[Romulox]

54. Thanks for the thoughtful response. To me, the written word does not meet that definition.

One quibble I have: I would replace "sexually arose" with "appeal to prurient interest" or similar.

To me, much of the hyper-violent fair pushed in our mainstream would be "pornographic" (if not obscene) if the standard was applied as liberally as it is to material depicting sexuality.

[blogslut]

55. It's a matter of personal taste, then

isn't it?

As far as I know, appealing to prurient interests is not against the law in the the USA - it's just highly regulated.

[Romulox]

57. It is Constitutional to regulate or even ban material

that meets all three prongs of the Miller test, as we've been discussing.

"It's a matter of personal taste, then isn't it?"

I have to wonder if the written word has the capacity to titillate one of the sexes more than the other. I don't think this has much to do with "taste".

[blogslut]

61. Yes, but the Miller test is about Obscenity

Obscenity, as I stated, is undefined by the SCOTUS and is left up to Community standards. Pornography, on the other hand, is designed to sexually arouse and as I wrote above, sexual arousal is not a crime.

As far as the written word is concerned, well, let's just say there's some pretty disgusting stuff out there and frankly, the biggest audience for it is female. I stopped writing dirty stories for profit because the only authors making money were writing about incest and other subjects that were too obscene for my tastes.

[Romulox]

63. I think the Venn diagram has a bit of overlap between the two.

Perhaps I should be more precise in my terminology, but I think you might consider that "obscenity" and "pornography" are not two species completely alien to one another. In addition, the language regarding "prurient interest" is lifted from the Miller test, mentioned above, so of course I'm borrowing concepts from that test to apply in this discussion.

I'll set aside the question as to whether depictions of violence can be pornographic or not...(I think it's clear that they be "obscene" as defined by the Miller test, which is why I responded to your statement about "prurient" interest as I did.)

"As far as the written word is concerned, well, let's just say there's some pretty disgusting stuff out there and frankly, the biggest audience for it is female."

I'll put it this way: are such stories typically a component of an auto-erotic experience? To call a spade a spade, I think this is as good a definition of "pornographic" as any I can come up with.

[blogslut]

65. Let's put it this way

I do not believe that pornography, in general, is obscene or wrong. I do believe that pornography and obscenity are completely different things. I am against illegal content.

As far as what they prefer over @ Literotica, you'll have to ask them. I don't hang out with that crowd.

[Pharlo]

79. Now, before you get too 'holier than though' about

literotica and the 'crowd' that hangs out there, I should like to point out to you that, like everything in this world, it is what you make it. Personally, I find it...educational. And, before you get too judgmental about that sentence, I suggest you go over to literotica and peruse the 'How to' section. Granted, there is a LOT of chaff there, but every once in a while, you come across a real gem.

Personally, I've adapted the somewhat ambiguous 'selection' process as to what I read by perusing the titles and the ones that make me go 'Hunh? ... What? ... How?' I read. Now, I'm not saying that anyone should waste too much time there, but a couple times a year or so, I get bored and look for a couple of these educational gems.

An example of this would be "How to Shop for Sex Toys at Walmart". This, is a true classic. One that prevents me from keeping a straight face whenever I drive past a WalMart.

A small snippet from this gem:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know you'd never be caught shopping at the Evil Empire, but this is an emergency. The closest adult toy store is hours away and your date isn't. Besides, I think they're still picketing and you've already said you're scared of those church ladies. And, yes, you could have ordered some real playthings from Lit or Amazon or wherever, but you forgot, didn't you? So, it's here or Home Depot. Yes, that was just a joke... Although I can think of some interesting possibilities .... Maybe later.


http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=310035

[blogslut]

81. I apologize

You see, I work in the Internet porn industry. I am proud of my job. Unfortunately, here at DU, I am often accused of being a horrid person because I do not condemn my profession. I tire of the "erotica" versus "porn" discussions when ultimately, there are plenty of moralizers and legislators willing to demonize both types of adult entertainment.

I am sorry that I was less than favorable in my comments about Literotica. It is a fine place despite the fact that I find the "Taboo" section creepy. Literotica paid me cash money for some of my stories back in the day. I stopped writing dirty tales a long time ago because the money sucks and I wasn't willing to write on subjects I find distasteful in order to make a buck. Now, I write articles for adult webmasters and am very happy.

[gatorboy]

82. So what's your opinion on the prose of Kristin Maguire?

Good? Bad?

[blogslut]

83. Meh

It's kind of cold and clinical.

[gatorboy]

84. Yeah, but we're talking about a Young Earth Creationist here.

For one of those guys, it ain't bad, right? :rofl:

[Pharlo]

88. Ah, ok. I was unaware of your affiliation with the genre.

If you like your job, the hell with anyone elses preconceptions. Personally, there are places on literotica I will not venture into. 'Taboo' is one of them. 'Humor' and 'how to' are about it for me. I guess I'm not the adventurous type.

And, yes, you're right, from what I have read about the industry, the money is in the area of 'Taboo'. Probably a supply and demand issue. Probably the one area where 'demand' is substantially higher than 'supply'. Honestly, don't know, don't care.

[Xithras]

77. I'd challenge anyone to read LitErotica and claim that it isn't pornographic.

Porn doesn't require a photograph to be porn. The classic definition of porn was any sexual subject matter designed specifically to stimulate the reader sexually.

[anigbrowl]

64. Incorrect

Pornography comes from πορνογραφία or pornographia which translates to 'writings of (as in, about) prostitutes'. Nowadays we usually think of graph as implying graphic, and thus drawings or photographs, but graph can equally well refer to writing; for example monograph, paragraph, or autograph.

[Romulox]

66. I don't think etymology is controlling in all cases.

The ancients didn't have high definition web cams, after all.

Though I do find etymology interesting. As mentioned above, my response was partially tongue in cheek.

[anigbrowl]

67. Greek web cam

The frame rate is pretty slow though...

[raccoon]

5. What are you talking about? Where does it say that in the article?

Wednesday, Sep 2, 2009 Posted on Tue, Sep. 01, 2009

State education board's chairwoman resigns

Maguire had been criticized for home-schooling her children

By GINA SMITH

[e-mail]

Controversial State Board of Education chairwoman Kristin Maguire has unexpectedly stepped down from her post.

Maguire, who has served on the board since 2000 and has served as chairwoman since January, sent a letter to her 16 board members and Gov. Mark Sanford on Friday, citing her parents’ poor health and the growing needs of her teenage children as the reason for her resignation....

She is the nation’s only home-schooler to head a public-school state board...

“It sent a bad message to the public,” said Tim Moore, chairman-elect of the board, who will now become chairman. “It’s just not consistent to have the chairman of the state board of education home-schooling their children. If the schools aren’t good enough for her children, how can we expect the public to believe it’s good enough for their children?”

http://www.thestate.com/local/story/923954.html (same link OP posted)

[JTFrog]

10. From this DU link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x476537

[Jane Austin]

16. I'm trying to get that link from the source where I first saw the story.

After I posted here, I clicked on my link and saw it didn't have all those details.

[raccoon]

92. Guess I reacted strongly yesterday. Anyway, thanks for posting.

Amazing, the hypocrisy of our esteemed (not) SC politicians.

[Jane Austin]

93. S'ok. :)

I've done the same thing to others.

"I don't see anything in the article that says what your subject says."

Your lily is pretty and cheerful.

[raccoon]

94. Thanks! It's mah state flower! nt

[Missy Vixen]

6. I feel compelled to point this out

Erotica = emotional element

Porn = no emotional element

There is a difference.

Sincerely,
Just another romance author

[raccoon]

7. WHERE in the article does it say anything about porn? nt

[ipfilter]

8. I read the whole disgusting article...twice

and I didn't see anything.

[Romulox]

11. Me neither. I did spend a terrifying moment locked in the gaze of this woman's crazy eyes, though

[ipfilter]

19. The red jacket tipped me off

that she is probably a right wing nutjob.

[Buzz Clik]

14. It doesn't.

[Echo In Light]

15. Yeah. Not thought through before it was posted apparently.

[Jane Austin]

20. I relied on my very reliable friend who posted this to me in an email.

I assumed her links went to the details, of which there are many more.

Once I followed my link, I saw it didn't and am trying to get another link.

[Echo In Light]

41. That's okay. I'm fairly neutral on porn, but was puzzled over the lack of the article's citing of it

[Jane Austin]

18. Sorry, I'm trying to get that link now. . . . n/t

[redqueen]

9. Might wanna add another link... about the porn, perhaps?

there's apparently one at Kos... also here:

http://www.fitsnews.com/2009/08/31/sex-education/

[raccoon]

12. THANK YOU. nt

[redqueen]

23. No problem.

Took about 10 seconds to find. It's all over... of course, cause it's SEX! :P

[gatorboy]

22. I think the larger offense here is that she home schooled her kids.

Obviously she doesn't think the system is good enough for her children but she has no trouble being put in a position to regulate the public's children. Typical Repug attitude.

[Jane Austin]

25. I've added some links which have the erotica allegations.

Forgive me for not knowing the difference between porn and erotica.

I'm not a user of either.

Also, please forgive me for posting unsupported allegations without checking the links first.

Note to self: Never, ever post before coffee after late night. :(

[OneGrassRoot]

29. ...

:hug:

:)

[Jane Austin]

34. Aww, thank you.

I was feeling terrible for having made such a hash of this story.

I won't apologize to the republicans of South Carolina, but I sure to want to apologize to my fellow DUers for my sloppy reporting.

Thanks for the yummy-looking coffee!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Did her stories feature Sarah and Joe "the plumber"?

[gatorboy]

30. They featured Obama's huge stimulus package.

;)

[Ilsa]

45. LOLOLOL. You racist! Don't let Michelle know. nt

[MercutioATC]

32. She should have kept her day job.

Her writing is atrocious.

[gatorboy]

37. Really? I found it quite charming!

[MercutioATC]

42. "You are such a cum slut, aren't you, Lauren?"

"I'm your cum slut, Paul. You make me desperate to cum."


THIS is "erotic"? I'm all for dirty talk, but this much too unbelievably stilted to be arousing.

[Ilsa]

47. Sounds like something written by a high schooler. nt

[MercutioATC]

48. Agreed.

...a high-schooler who has never has interesting sex, at that.

[gatorboy]

51. Okay, I thought the "charming" remark would give away my sarcasm.

Obviously not. :P

[HopeHoops]

40. But ONE CRITICAL QUESTION remains...

Was it any good?

If so, how do you access it?

[MercutioATC]

43. Here's one (allegedly):

http://fitsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Laurens-Masturbatory-Musings.pdf


...and it's hopelessly stilted. I don't find it to be erotic in the least.

[redqueen]

46. Does *anyone* find porn "erotic"? (nt)

[MercutioATC]

49. I guess it depends on one's definition of "porn".

This would come under under the definition of "erotic fiction" (my opinion). Is that "porn"?

Regardless, it's really bad "erotic fiction".

[skypilot]

73. I'm sorry but...

...I couldn't make it past the first paragraph about "Paul" and his meeting with the "Chemcorp" stockholders and his positioning the company "to lead in the new environment-friendly coolant market". Real hot stuff. NOT!!!

[liberal N proud]

44. Do not read them at work.

[Strong Atheist]

53. ROFLMAO!!! Good, hypocrisy gets its just rewards... nt.

[subcomhd]

62. Right Wing Porn. Here's a passage

Finly the moment arived she had bene waiting for. The governr dropt his pants and reveeled his bugling mmbr. It was hughe.

[skypilot]

74. Read the first paragraph...

...of "Lauren's Masturbatory Musings". In it's way, it's about a hundred times worse than what you just wrote. It might have been an appropriate opening paragraph for some corporate thriller story. But for erotica? Not so much.

[subcomhd]

76. "I had a Danish on the train"

hahahahahahahaha!

[skypilot]

78. "And a Starbucks venti iced latte...

...which I very nearly spilled on the quarterly Chemcorp report."

Are you wet yet?

[subcomhd]

80. "You were entranced by how little of my breast I could actually hold in my hand."

lol

[reflection]

85. This is the funniest post ever.

I'm giggling like a kid over here.
:spray:

[Blue_Tires]

68. "Dear Penthouse Forum..."

[subcomhd]

87. I always thought your letters were fake n/t

[libodem]

86. I wonder if it is as gross

as O'Liely's is? We should never forget Billo has porn stories out there, too, of which he must be so proud.

[G_j]

91. co-founded a group that encourages abstinence-only education

Maguire co-founded a group that encourages abstinence-only education and the teaching of intelligent design in schools. She also is active in politics, serving on the state Republican Party’s executive committee.