Police: Wal-Mart Shopper Slaps Crying Child

[dugaresa]

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/news/20684677/detail.html

"A police report said the man, Roger Stephens, 61, of Stone Mountain, had warned the child’s mother, Sonya Mathews, that if she didn’t quiet down the child, he would do it for her.

According to the report, after the mother failed to quiet the girl, Stephens came up to them and slapped the child several times in the face"

Apparently this Mr. Stephens needs a lot of help and has a lot of bottled up anger.

[Pirate Smile]

1. Enjoy jail, asshole. Why isn't he charged with battery? Hopefully "cruelty with children" is

a more severe felony but I doubt it.

He was "charged with cruelty with children in the first degree, which is a felony".

[truebrit71]

3. ..and abject poverty...the size of that lawsuit will be huuuuuuuuuuuuge...

...I'd have cock-punched that sonofabitch right there and then...but hey, that's me..

[Maru Kitteh]

114. Agreed. That was my first thought. Why not felony assult and battery too?

A toddler is a person.

Somebody did that to my kid they would still be cleaning up the mess where what used to be that person was standing.

[EFerrari]

2. Good. And I hope everyone saw him being hauled away.

:grr:

[elocs]

4. Same forum, beat you by 3 minutes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6447034

[dugaresa]

9. oops, sorry

just saw it and posted it cuz it was so hard to believe, perhaps someone can merge this one with the other?

[elocs]

18. Hey, news is not news at DU unless it gets posted 3 times the day it happens

and then the next day.

[ingac70]

5. WTF???

I would have stomped that bastard a new asshole!

[peacefreak]

6. Hope it was caught on security cameras

with plenty of witnesses around. What a jerk.

[KansDem]

7. "Attention Wal-Mart Slappers..."

This is beyond the pale


The Slapper...

[sui generis]

13. Slap-off in aisle six . . .

:rofl:

I guess crazy walks around and looks just like you and me, until it hauls off and multi-bitchslaps your brat.

Not condoning by any means, but shopping, going to the movies or to a restaurant with a cranky kid should not substitute everyone else for the punishment your babysitter gets paid to deal with.

Seriously - if your kid is that cranky just don't inflict the kid on everyone around you.

[nolabear]

59. The child was two. Ever have to get the shopping done,

take care of the family's day to day needs, be a good parent to someone who is genuinely unable to control their emotions--because two year olds have a world of frustration and few ways to regulate the reactions--and then have people who could give you a compassionate pat on the back stand in completely unhelpful judgment of you? Sometimes you HAVE to go to the store. Sometimes you just want to. It's not an adolescent with a semi-automatic; it's a little one and a parent who need patience.

[Warren DeMontague]

85. Ten bucks the person you're responding to doesn't have kids.

And has absolutely NO idea what you're talking about.

"Shopping is Easy! A piece of cake! What are you complaining about?!"

[DeschutesRiver]

102. My parents had kids; I was one of them. In fact, I was a living terror...

and my parents never entertained the thought of subjecting other people to prolonged fits by me at full volume. Both working class people who certainly didn't have time to spare, either. My behaviors had consequences, and my parents didn't entrust complete strangers to deliver those consequences.

They manned up and took charge of my behavior themselves. I don't approve of their methods; I do approve of the fact that they didn't impose me on others with the excuse of "you don't how HARD it is...". They knew, they coped, they fucked up at times, eventually it got through to me (and my brother, but he was easy).

This guy is crazy-tard, had no right to bitch slap the kid. Kid acted like a kid, that is what they do. Mom? Don't know, didn't sound like she was all that much "giving a crap" about the effect kid had on the shopping experience/life of others around her. My folks didn't have to be told by others that we kids were not in shape to be shopping on any given day; but if someone had needed to point it out to my mom or dad, they would have removed us from the situation if we couldn't be stopped from bothering others.

Kids get tired, they throw tantrums around 2, they act out, act up, etc - parents are supposed to parent throughout those situations. Not just expect a pat on the back during the good times. There are birth givers who never had any clue or plan to actually parent/raise their little ones, and have no intention of trying; and there are parents who've given birth, and get the job done by learning on the job and then applying it.

[EndersDame]

214. But you had two parents. Some of the girls I work with are single moms

working and going to school. Some of their parents have disowned them for getting pregnant at a young age and not being married.Not everyone has that support system

[Darth_Kitten]

118. Right, because all parents are SO patient and raise such wonderfully bred young ones.

Don't tell me you haven't ever thought parents are responsible SOMETIMES for out of control kids.
:)

[sui generis]

160. you lost that bet

listen up idiots. If it inconveniences you to leave your brats at home, and you'd rather inconvenience everyone else then you're the rude fucker.

anyway clearly you read what you wanted to read into my response. read it again, this time with your brain engaged.

[sui generis]

161. I didn't stand in judegement. Please unassume the crash position.

[Warren DeMontague]

84. Not everyone has a babysitter available for their "brat"

This lady was in Wal-Mart, not a fine dining establishment.

The problem here isn't kids acting like kids, it's psycho fucking "grownups" with anger & entitlement issues--- who don't understand why kids are being "inflicted" upon THEIR personal reality, which apparently includes all of Wal-Mart.

[Darth_Kitten]

119. Well, they do have an income, so they have more of a right there....

than the kid. ;) :hide:

Don't parents appease their kids with promises of candy anymore? :shrug:

[carlyhippy]

107. oh man LOL you must not have kids

kids are like ticking time bombs, ya never know when it's gonna go off and pitch a fit, usually this happens at the checkout where the cheap toys and candy is displayed, damned those retail people for putting that stuff right there.

[Darth_Kitten]

120. Right, because childless people couldn't even begin to grasp the concept of wailing children.

n/t

[carlyhippy]

132. no, childless people do grasp the concept well

but people who are parents are fully aware that kids go off at any time and they are more tolerant and understanding of a wailing child, theirs or others.

[Hepburn]

167. I have kids....

...and I am not the least bit tolerant of any parent who does not remove the kid if he or she cannot control the tantrum.

True ~~ kids throw tantrums...but I have a right to be free of that kind of conduct if the parent cannot shut it down.

[Missy Vixen]

147. Actually, I do grasp the concept of a wailing child

I'm a former nanny. I also spent a few hours recently walking with my friend's baby, who is suffering from colic. She got a couple of hours of desperately-needed sleep.

If you're going to stereotype and smear the childfree, you might want to remember that part of the reason some of us didn't have kids is that we knew we weren't cut out to be parents. This does not mean we don't love children.

[Warren DeMontague]

200. I don't know about all the parents here, but I'm not going to stereotype the childfree.

It's a very small sub-group of childfree, or childless, or folks without kids, here who invariably show up in ANY thread about kids in public, or breastfeeding, or airplanes, or what-have-you, and commence to engage in the same line of bitching and grousing.

As I said elsewhere in this thread, here you have a case of a man who assaulted a 2 year old. Posting a ton of wink-wink-smirk-smirk about "of course he shouldn't have done it, BUT..." is just like going into a rape thread and talking about how the victim was drunk and wearing revealing clothes.

They should stop apologizing, or "understanding the POV" of this asshole. There aren't two sides, here.

As for people who didn't have kids b/c they knew they weren't cut out for it, I salute you; it's a big job. Personally, I waited until I was sure I had my shit together enough to handle it. If I had tried to do it when I was, say, Levi Johnston's age, it would have been a mess.

[Warren DeMontague]

203. No, but they might not grasp the logistics of needing to get through Wal-Mart in a hurry

and not being ABLE to drop everything and flee the store just because a kid is having a tantrum and Mr. Liverspots Delerium Tremens Tinydick who also happens to be in Aisle 54 can't deal with the noise.

Certainly, there are people here who don't get that 2 year olds have tantrums in public because they're 2 years old, NOT because "parents today" "refuse to discipline their kids".. :eyes: ... that sort of statement is a CLEAR indicator that someone has NO fucking clue about kids.

[subcomhd]

150. I guess crazy walks around and looks just like you and me until.....

fill in the blank. I'm going to remember that one.

[lostnfound]

159. Finding a babysitter for a 30 minute shopping trip isn't so easy

and babies can be fine one minute and crying like crazy the next. If it were easy, there wouldn't be 50 thousand parenting books about it.

[Warpy]

8. Why didn't that asshole just LEAVE?

Yes, screaming 2 year olds are annoying, but it's not like they have an off switch and they're not old enough to be reasoned with. Most of us know it's a function of the age and just suck it up.

This guy needs a complete evaluation, in any case, especially if hitting other people's children hasn't been a long standing pattern.

If it has been a long standing pattern, it's best to get him off the street.

[enlightenment]

21. While I agree that his behaviour was beyond the pale,

I have to ask why should the offended person leave and not the offending parent with the wailing child? Yes, they both have a 'right' to be there, but it seems to me that the offender should be the one to leave.

Yes, we all 'suck it up' every day, especially since it has become more and more commonplace for parents to refuse to do what is necessary to quiet their screaming child . . . including taking the tyke home for a nap or lunch or a diaper change or whatever.

Unfortunately, it has only made it worse. I'm not sure when parents' decided that they have some sort of right to inflict their child-rearing issues on the general populace, but it's not pleasant. I know we're all busy and stressed for time and all that, but hell - I can't count the number of aborted shopping trips, family restaurant excursions, etc, that I had when my kid was little. Sometimes I didn't make it from the car to the store before I turned around. It wasn't convenient by any means, but I didn't believe I had a right to inflict the little bugger on everyone in earshot.

This guy should never have done what he did and I hope he receives just punishment - but it would be interesting to know just how many other people have at the very least entertained less than civil thoughts as they are forced to listen to the ear-splitting, migraine inducing shrieks of a cranky toddler, echoing through the aisles of the grocery store - or worse, curdling the food on their plates in a restaurant.

Civil society is not a one-way street, with certain groups granted immunity. I would never blame a child for their behaviour, but I definitely have a lower opinion of parents who believe I should give them a pass on parenting.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

22. +1

[SPedigrees]

25. +2 nt

[theHandpuppet]

79. +3 nt

That about says it all.

[DeschutesRiver]

100. +4. nt

[emilyg]

129. +5

[sui generis]

173. ++moi

[Warpy]

26. Oh, I have a very detailed and violent fantasy life

in such situations. However, what I usually do is continue my shopping in another part of the store, avoiding the cart with the red faced, leather lunged mite shrieking its displeasure at the world.

Most parents would take the kid out of the store until the storm had passed, I think. However, some parents are stressed for time or waiting for
prescriptions or in other circumstances when it's not really possible.

Those are the ones I just suck it up and change aisles for.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. It's fucking Wal-Mart, it's not the symphony.

Yes, God Forbid the sacred peace and quiet of the local Wal-Mart should be disturbed by a crying kid for 5 minutes. :eyes:

Let me take a wild guess- you don't have kids of your own. In my experience, upwards of 95% of the folks on DU who love to second-guess parents of little kids personally have no idea what they're talking about.

[northernlights]

32. re-read the post

Poster has raised kids and had many shopping excursions etc. interrupted in order to remove screeching kid from public.

Also read poster's subject -- offender's behavior was "beyond the pale." In other words, agrees he should be punished to the max and that there is no excuse for his despicable behavior.

If possible, parents of screeching kids should leave if the kids get out of control, instead of inflicting their monsters on the rest of society. That does NOT give the rest of society to take parenting into their own hands, however, or to abuse the child because its parents aren't civil enough to remove it.

[Maru Kitteh]

124. Anyone who gives in to a child throwing a fit is an idiot who is being controlled by the child.

It takes them all of about 2 minutes to figure out that throwing a fit when they are tired of shopping is a great way to get what they want.

If the child is sick or suffers a serious boo-boo at the store that's different. But I've heard SO many parents say "It never fails, 10 minutes after we get to the store he throws a fit and we have to leave." I want to hit them in the head with a tack hammer. Of COURSE the kid throws a fit when he wants to leave - you've TRAINED him to.

[Number23]

154. +50

If every parent waited until their children were quiet little angels to do the things that they needed to do, they would never leave the house. NEVER. It is just that damn simple.

And if people are too precious and so effing immature their DAMNED selves that seeing a 2 year old, with limited communication skills and the ability to express themselves, throwing a tantrum upsets them that badly then do us all a favor. Pack your shit, buy an island and live there isolated from all mankind.

'Cause if I had to choose between a 2-year old brat and a 35-year old one, you can bet I'm going to choose the 2-year old one every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[The Gunslinger]

34. +1

[enlightenment]

36. Please read what I wrote.

There is little point in disparaging anothers opinion if you can't be bothered to determine what they have said.

Wild guessing is not equivalent to taking the time to read what was written before responding.

[Warren DeMontague]

41. You are right.

I'm still stymied from last week's breastfeeding in Chick-Fil-A threads... and the number of DU members who object to "inflicting" a nursing mom on an unsuspecting public that can't, apparently, look somewhere else. I'm also getting over the flu.. I should have read your post more thoroughly.

I'm the same way- if the kids are out of control, remove them from the situation ASAP.

But -and this was the only point I was trying to make- this story doesn't have 'two sides'... If dude had such a problem, he should have removed himself.

[redqueen]

42. Thank you...

"this story doesn't have 'two sides'"

Damn straight.

[sui generis]

162. okay. I read more too.

self delete

[dugaresa]

30. sometimes people don't have the option of leaving with a crying toddler

lots of really good parents have had "moments" with their kids. I was on a plane last December where this poor little boy was suffering with ear pain. There were a lot of compassionate folks who volunteered lollipops and felt bad for the mom and dad who were struggling to help the poor tyke out.

I hated shopping with my kids but sometimes didn't have any other options and so I would have to risk it.

Sadly the man who slapped that kid was likely the product of bad parenting, just like the other rude and obnoxious adults I run into every once in a while. I meet more grown ups that need time out more than toddlers.

[enlightenment]

39. I agree, sometimes there are no other options.

And it's usually true that you can TELL when that's the case, as a beleaguered parent tries every trick in the book to quiet their tot. I suppose I was referring more to the increasing number of parents' who simply ignore their child and continue with their shopping/eating/conversing with absolutely no regard for others - and then get offended when someone gives them a dirty look - or, heaven forfend - suggests they might try to calm their child.

99.9% of us 'do the right thing' - play by the unspoken rules - take the high road - and that's as it should be; we're all on this boat together, so yeah, we should try to get along. It just seems as if there are an increasing number of parents out there who are more than willing to take unfair advantage of the kindness of strangers . . . and yes, they are completely rude and obnoxious (and yes, I know that's not to whom you were referring . . . ;) )

[northernlights]

33. +3

and thank you for having been an enlightened parent who took protected society when the little buggers were overexercising their screeching apparatus. :)

[Born_A_Truman]

43. Isn't free screech protected?

[javadu]

37. Just Keep Sucking It Up

It is the right thing to do.

Kids are messy -- always have been and always will be. Not just physically messy, but they cry and annoy people. It is part of the human condition. It is not (usually) poor parenting. In fact, the kids who are "perfect angels" in public places are more worrisome to me than those who are annoying. I know adults who reflect on their own childhoods and have related stories about adults who bragged about their good behavior. They tell me that those adults did not know the very severe consequences that they would face if they did not behave.

I have heard kids crying in grocery stores and my ears have never split. The food has never curdled on my plate. I have survived -- so will you -- and so will the kids.

Moreover -- I generally have a low regard for submitting to authority and good-behavior among either adults or children. Unlike the author of a well-known parenting book "The Strong-Willed Child," I believe that having a strong will is a good not a negative thing. I hope my kids will become adults who are strong-willed, opinionated, loud, super-smart, and obnoxious trouble-makers who work hard and love deeply.

[enlightenment]

40. Did I suggest they should be 'perfect angels'?

I don't think so . . .

I do suck it up - and I have raised a child who was an absolute horror in public for a number of years, so I know the other side of the coin. (By the way, he did learn to behave and he did grow up to be a strong-willed, opinionated, and very intelligent adult. Intelligent enough to know that loud and obnoxious doesn't necessarily make you right . . .)

I'm glad you have no issues with screaming children, but you're willingness/ability to tolerate it is not universal, nor is it a condition of survival. Of course we survive it - it's hardly life-threatening. But just like we're allowed to complain about ragweed and the misery of seasonal allergies, we should be allowed to complain about screaming children and their self-absorbed parents who can't be bothered to recall that they aren't living in a bubble.

[mitchum]

44. "Come glory in this which is an extension of...me!!!"...

is why parents think it is simply wonderful to inflict their brats upon others

[Warren DeMontague]

45. In my experience, it's people without kids who are most likely to think that the world

ought to revolve around them.

Being a parent -at least, a good one- necessarily entails giving up a large amount of self.

And of course, it is good manners whenever possible to remove a child who as acting out from anyone who might be bothered, as quickly as the situation allows.

Nevertheless, bringing that sort of shit up in THIS thread is exactly like complaining about women wearing short skirts and getting drunk--- in a rape thread.
This story doesn't have "two sides".. it's about some shithead assaulting a little kid-- get it?

[mitchum]

46. Well, the assailant ia a shithead AND...

many parents DO inflict their ill-mannered brats upon others.
It's only natural, other creatures with the ability to breed such as...I dunno...cockroaches and rats also inflict their offspring upon others, but I don't have to applaud it--get it?

[Warren DeMontague]

69. Yes, it's all about "breeding" like "cockroaches", "inflicting our offspring" on you.

Jesus... issues?

If you hate kids so much, move to the fucking moon.

Or Florida.

[mitchum]

205. Touched a nerve, didn't I, Dad?

[Warren DeMontague]

222. Same as if you were apologizing for Nazis, since I had family in the camps.

I've got women in my family. If you were spreading this kind of blame-the-victim sewage about a rape victim, I'd be pissed, too.

So, sure. You think it's an offense against the public order for a 2 yr. old to have a tantrum in wal-mart, you waltz into this thread spreading vile apologia for some shithead who assaults a baby ... you've clearly got some kind of major issues around the idea of children...

...and I'm the one who is over-sensitive.

[Hannah Bell]

180. disgusting.

[mitchum]

206. I really hate to put that whole "miracle of birth" thing in a realistic context...

but I did

[seabeyond]

183. then we have the grown up brats inflicted on us. need we slap them too? nt

[mitchum]

207. Well, the brat child is the father of the bad man (or woman)

[FedUpWithIt All]

218. You do realize that most two year olds still communicate their basic needs through crying, right?

The majority of two year old children cannot speak yet. Their tears are no less an acceptable expression than yours above. A child cries when they are trying to communicate something.

Allowing a human being, who is limited in their language skills, to assert themselves with the only verbal tools at their disposal IS a necessary way to teach children to be less offensive as they move into other areas of expression. Denying a person the right to communicate, regardless of the method employed to do so, is pathetic.

A child, particularly an infant, has special needs. Are you as offended by other people who have needs or manners different than your own? I suspect not. That would make you an asshole. But calling a baby ill mannered for expressing themselves in one of the only ways they are able...no problem. :eyes:

It does take someone who is able to see outside themselves, though, to be able to empathize with those who are different than themselves. An inability to consider others (and anger over a crying two year old BABY is a perfect example) is an obvious limitation. Those who cannot be kind to others who have greater needs and possible difficulties than themselves also require patience and understanding, IMO. They are just as limited.

Have a nice day.

[Toasterlad]

50. Bullshit.

I'm never having children precisely because I know I'd be a shitty parent. But I certainly don't think the world revolves around me. I am polite and courteous to everyone I meet (offline ;) ). And I would feel nothing but pity for any parent dealing with screaming or misbehaving child in a situation from which the child cannot be moved, like on an airplane. But I have nothing but contempt for a parent who willfully and unnecessarily exposes others to their child's bad behavior.

Saying that the mother should have taken her child out of the store to get it under control in no way condones the actions of the man who struck it. There is no excuse for what he did. Should the mother have taken her brat out of the store? Yes. Is it her fault her child got slapped? No.

[seabeyond]

55. toddler has ear infection. massive pain. no eating. up all night. early to doctor. all mom wants

is some antibiotics, popsicles, pedilite and motrum and tylenol and get the toddler home and take care of her needs.

yes she is fussy

yes a pain for all

yes the bitch of the mother is thinking about her child before you


those minutes, mere minutes that you have to endure the horrible misbehavior of a little one, is it really that big of a deal?

[Toasterlad]

56. Yes, Because All Bratty Children Have Ear Infections.

Please. We have ALL seen cases of children being brats because they're brats...and parents ignoring them because they're bad parents. It's pretty easy to tell the difference between a child in pain and a child being whiny because it's a brat. And it's pretty easy to tell the difference between a parent who is caught in sorry circumstances and a parent who believes it's perfectly alright to inflict their ill-tempered brat on others.

[redqueen]

57. Yes, assume the worst... that's a very popular attitude here.

The kid might also be tired, teething, hungry...

[Warren DeMontague]

68. 2 Yr. Old who gets assaulted = "brat" ... woman who gets raped = "slut"

Look, obviously the mean old world has put crying children on the face of it for the sole purpose of fucking up YOUR day, but if you want a thread to grouse about how "breeders" "pop out" an endless stream of "whiny brats" who are "infesting" the world with their presence, I'd personally suggest that a thread about some psychopath attacking a child isn't the place.

But for some reason, any time ANY thread comes up about kids in public pops up, the issues-laden folks with axes to grind invariably show up to make just those complaints.

Every time.

[Toasterlad]

105. I'd Respectfully Suggest That If You Are Applying a "Blame the Victim" Mentality To This Thread...

...that YOU'RE the one who has issues. Cause, no one is doing that. I haven't heard anyone suggest yet that the man was doing the right thing by attacking that child.

And despite your somewhat erroneous reading between the lines, I am neither anti-straight person nor anti-child. What I am is anti-bad parent, which is unfortunate, because this world is full of them. I would simply suggest that those people who are unwilling to BE parents should not BECOME parents.

And I never call anyone a "breeder" unless they're picking a fight with a gay person.

[redqueen]

174. No, not saying he did the right thing... only that he had a good reason to do this wrong thing.

That's all.

Because as we all know, that toddler was doing nothing but throwing a temper tantrum right? We're all so very certain that it wasn't illness, or tiredness, or hunger. Or else why even bring this shit up?

It is perfectly analogous to introducing that shit in rape threads.

[Warren DeMontague]

204. Oh, bullshit. Look around this thread and you'll see tons of this:

"Oh, I'm not saying he should have done it, (wink wink, nudge nudge) but I can totally understand wanting to. Doesn't mean I would do it (wink wink)"

And again, since you apparently think that a 2 year old having a temper tantrum in public is indicative of "bad parenting" or maybe a "refusal to discipline", it's clear you have NO fucking clue about kids.

I'll give you credit, though, you got through one post, at least, without using the word "brat". :patriot:

[varelse]

134. +1

Heh, I never thought I'd do that.

[seabeyond]

82. you are slow, arent you? the point being, it could have been a number fo things that you dont

have a clue, but with YOUR bratty attitude, similar to a two yr old behavior, except you arent two, you assume and name call a little two year old. do tell me how much more superior you are.

you dont know why a little one may cry. there could be any number of legitimate reasons, that you are clueless to

just as

a person that is in a shitty mood. we can react likewise, as a piece of shit, or we could say, you know, dont know what is up in this ADULTS life, but maybe... just maybe, something has happened and if i knew about it i would feel empathy to the person and NOT strike back

or we could act like a little two year old, call names and throw a tantrum

[Toasterlad]

108. Perhaps, But LOTS Quicker Than You.

I went to a musical a few weeks ago. Behind me was a family, who had brought along a three year old. A THREE YEAR OLD. This was NOT a children's play. The child spent the entire time complaining loudly (and justifiably!) about not wanting to be there. Not once did the parents take the child out into the lobby, let alone get up and leave. They had no problem ruining the experience of the paying customers around them due to their own selfishness.

The child in this situation was being a brat, pure and simple. However, the child was not to blame. The child is NEVER to blame. That does not make the child any less of a brat. It is the parent's responsibility to remove the brat. It is the parent's fault if the situation continues.

The fact that YOU can't tell the difference between a parent being selfish and one in an unfortunate situation doesn't mean that other people can't. It just means you're...slow.

[seabeyond]

112. and that has nothing to do with a two year old in walmart.

btw... often a child is to blame. i consistently and often put the "blame" on a child. ownership. dont own it, cant solve it. cant solve it.... well hell, out of control

but that isnt a two yr old.

big difference.

not what i responded to your post on

a clever person know well and good two is different than what age was that child whiney....?

[Toasterlad]

115. I'd Respond, But I Honestly Have No Idea What You're Trying to Say

Is English your second language?

[Warren DeMontague]

221. Okay, I'll respond: That has nothing to do with a 2 yr. old in Walmart.

What do you want to hear? That, about the situation you describe, you're right? You are. Based on your description, the parents in question were assholes. They absolutely should have taken whiny 3 yr. old out of said musical. No question.

Still, there is a big difference between the situation you describe- a 3 yr. old in an inappropriate venue ruining a musical for paying customers, and a 2 yr. old in an aisle in a 200,000 sq. foot Wal-Mart.

[EndersDame]

211. This was a TWO year old, Doesn't have the ability to learn manners and social protocal

[redqueen]

51. Spot fucking on.

It's hardly surprising though... there's always at least a few.

[Raineyb]

179. The guy who slapped the kid had raised kids once upon a time

So you can take your slur against those who either choose to or by happenstance have no children and shove it.

[Toasterlad]

48. So Agreed.

My mother would have been mortified if any of her six children were causing a scene in a public place, and we would have been quickly whisked away in such a situation.

Obviously, you can't pick up your child and leave in every situation, like if you're on a plane or a bus, eg. However, you shouldn't be unnecessarily subjecting other people to your spawn's shitty behavior.

[Warren DeMontague]

71. Funny, how quick some people are to use words like "spawn" and "whiny brat", here

We're talking about a 2 year old Child who got assaulted, remember?

And if the shit-eating pond scum who did this had done it to MY kid, he'd be nursing more than just a bunch of criminal charges right now, I'll tell you that.

[Toasterlad]

116. And I Would Be Cheering You On.

The man had absolutely no right to strike that child. It was despicable, and I hope he is prosecuted to the fullest extent.

That doesn't change the fact that the child was being a brat. Being a brat has never been license for a stranger to strike a child.

[Maru Kitteh]

137. You really don't know a single damned thing about children or human development do you?

Not every child who is crying is "being a brat."

You've reduced yourself to name-calling a two-year-old. Don't you understand how you demean yourself?

[Toasterlad]

152. And Yet I Sleep Just Fine.

Perhaps it's because I don't walk through life over-dramatizing every situation.

[Hepburn]

170. So you think no two year old can be a brat?

:rofl:

Go to a public park some day and you most certainly can pick out brats of all age groups! Watch he parents ~~ some are concerned and others are concerned only with themselves.

But is it OK to slap a child on the face? No...absolutely not OK. But the fact that the adult male did a horribly wrong act ~~ that does not in and of itself removce the child from the category of brat nor does it remove the mother from the category of the kind of parent who does not give a shit about what her child does to others.

[redqueen]

175. And no woman who is raped could be a slut?

Whether or not two-year-olds can be brats has nothing to do with the subject.

These threads are disgusting.

[Hepburn]

219. Get a clue....

...OK?

:eyes:

All children at times can be brats....PERIOD. Do I want to put up with anyone's spoiled brat? No. Do I have a right to hit the child of another? No ~~ unles there is some kind of need to protect myself or another from the child...and then only the force necessary.

Sheesh...you must be one of those people who think that anything a child does is OK...how cute...:puke:

[seabeyond]

220. get a clue. all adults can be asses. MUST we put up with them. do i want to put up with an adult

being an ass, a spoiled adult that think this world is theirs and inflict themselves on all of us.

children are PART of this world too. misbehave, behave same as adults

you are being a bigot and profiling

[seabeyond]

49. why doesn't the old person that walks really really slow not move out of my way

why the hell should i have to walk slowly and patiently behind the person. preferably with understanding that is what happens when we get old. and that the minute or two of me slowly walking behind the person without being an ass is not that big of a deal.

we are all going to be there one day

just as we were all two in the past.

and most of us have had a grumpy little one too


why should i be patient with the teenager for being a teen

why should i be.....

because

it is being fuckin civilized understanding we live in a community full of diverse and differing human beings

it is not MY world. it is OUR world

[redqueen]

52. ...

:applause:

[Toasterlad]

54. There's a Big Fucking Difference Between Deferring to the Elderly and Tolerating Bratty Children.

Old people move slowly because they're FUCKING OLD. In other words, they can't control the situation. If you're in that much of a fucking hurry, you could always politely say "Excuse me", and brush past them.

A screaming child presumably has a parent or two somewhere close (unless the absence of the parent is why they're screaming). The parent usually has the ability to remove the screaming child. The parent CAN control the situation.

By your logic, since we all shit and piss, we should all just walk around shitting and pissing in front of each other. Why don't we? Because we as a society have determined that it's objectionable to do so in public. Much like having to listen to a screeching child.

[redqueen]

58. And toddlers cry because they can't talk yet...

They get frustrated easily.

It's not always brats throwing fits to get a toy... though that is the most common assumption.

I guarantee you that's what this bastard was probably thinking.

[Toasterlad]

60. I'm Aware.

That doesn't excuse the parent from not removing the child from the public until it's calmed down.

[redqueen]

61. IMO it does.

As she was shopping at Wal Mart, not watching a movie in a theater or having a nice dinner out somewhere.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Maru Kitteh]

145. Downs Syndrome adults sometimes become loud and emotional in public

Should we hide them away too? Should their caretakers remove them from a grocery store if they're having a difficult moment because it offends your heretofore glorious, joyful, transcendent Wal*Mart experience?

Removing a child form a situation they are frustrated or bored with because they are throwing a fit only teaches them to throw fits when they are frustrated, bored or want to do something else. I'm guessing that's just how you were raised.

My (now grown) kids don't expect the whole goddamned world to accommodate their wishes as you seem to do.

[Toasterlad]

153. Ha!

I was raised not to make a scene in public places, and that I can't always get what I want. Since you apparently raised your kids to be as obnoxious as they wanna be, I'm quite sure they DO expect the whole goddamn world to accommodate their wishes.

[Maru Kitteh]

216. Reading for comprehension. It's not just for class anymore.

My kids did not throw fits in the store to get what they wanted because they learned very, VERY early on with unerring consistency that poor behavior has no reward. Your attitude however indicates that you were probably probably spoiled terribly. Cuz it's all about YOU.

[sendero]

101. You are ..

.. a dumbass douchebag. You know nothing about raising kids and quite probably about anything else.

And I'm not going to bother explaining why because 90% of the folks here already know.

[Toasterlad]

111. LOL

Since your entire argument consists of name-calling, it's pretty safe to say that I know lots more about raising kids - and most everything else - than you.

If you can't express yourself rationally, I certainly hope YOU'RE not a parent. I'd imagine MANY people want to slap YOUR bratty kids.

[Maru Kitteh]

141. At least that person wasn't name-calling defenseless toddlers

You're the only one special enough to that so far in this thread.

[Luminous Animal]

64. I take it that you didn't work.

I only worked part-time (and at home at night after my daughter fell asleep) during those terrible twos & threes so I had the luxury of time to leave when she acted up. Not so for many women who have a short window between paid work and unpaid housework to get the errands done.

One of the most effective ways to quiet cranky children is for a stranger to intervene kindly. It elicits one of two reactions from the kids. Either their stranger danger kicks in and they'll shut up and observe you warily, or they're fascinated by something new and will shut up and observe you with expectant curiosity.

You are right, civil society is not a one way street. Extending kindness to strangers is civil behavior. Strangers helping out was the norm when I was growing up. Not so much now. People are quicker to give a child a nasty look than a smile.

[Political Heretic]

77. Word.

[Hansel]

81. Try it on a city bus where you can't get off.

We had a woman who had two screaming and extremely spoiled, I might add, children on the city bus. It was a 20 minute nightmare from hell. She sat there yelling over their screaming in an effort to chat on the phone nearly the entire trip. When every passenger on the bus turned around and looked at her she glared at one and told her to "turn her nasty looks around, you act like you've never been around a two year old." I replied that I had been around plenty and they didn't act like that.

Next time she came on the bus she kept the kids quiet and in their seats. Somehow she figured it out.

I am convinced that some powerless people express their frustrations with the world by inflicting their children's worst behavior on the public. It's really kind of sad.

Let me add that I never felt once compelled to slap these children, although there was an inkling of an urge to slap the mother.

[noamnety]

104. There's a wide range in parenting styles.

I can see your perspective, you sacrificed your convenience so others wouldn't have to put up with truly unpleasant behavior from your kids.

Another view, perhaps equally valid, is that good parenting requires not allowing kids to manipulate you by throwing temper tantrums. If a person can't count the number of times they've left a store because their kids threw tantrums, I'm not convinced that demonstrates effective parenting. Maybe it's more effective in the long run to let a kid realize shrieking doesn't gain them extra attention or whatever else it is they want, whereas leaving the store gives them a type of positive reinforcement and prolongs the behavior pattern.

[Number23]

156. +100

[seabeyond]

165. my youngest was/is a hard one. gotta love him regardless. he was crying and i was just too tired

to try to appease him until we got home. the thing.... i was all the way on the other side of the mall, from where car was. so i carried him (workin on 2) from one end of the mall to the other, all the way he was crying. didnt even try to make him stop. didnt try to reason, appease, conjole out of it. just walked really really fast thru mall to where car was

when buckling him into car seat, told him. just too far. he was done going out in public until he could behave.

and i held on that, with grocery store, mall. all fun adventures in my house

BUT

how many people thought i was a "bad" parent doing nothing with child and just allowing him to miss behave with no repercussions cause they were clueless with the child, me and results of his behavior

imagine the people that went home and said

can you imagine, that mom just walking thru mall with crying baby

clueless people deciding they know all

[nini]

117. His mistake was he should have slapped the mother, not the kid

:evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

121. then i guess with such an uncivilized comment, you warrant a slap too....

so this is your answer to inappropriate behavior, .... by adults too, i assume

[nini]

126. Jesus Christ.. relax

I would have thought this smiley - :evilgrin: may have conveyed a bit of sarcasm. So here it is :sarcasm:

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:


Let me add it's a bit surprising you say I warrant a slap while chastising me for making a sarcastic crack???? Does that seem at all hypocritical to you??

:eyes:

[seabeyond]

130. more like an evil grin, not sarcasm. like you know what you say is bad.... so what

sarcasm would be a whole other world, knowing you arent suggesting slapping the mom.

and no, i dont think it was hypocritical of me asking if slapping you for uncivilized comment met with rretribution on behavior.

[nini]

136. You really need to find other things to get self righteous about

Seriously, if you want to think I'm a woman beating advocate - go ahead - it's a complete waste of your time and energy and I really don't give a shit what you think of me. I don't care to continue a discussion with someone who is beyond seeing the sarcasm and NOT SERIOUS intent of my comment.

We're done, but please continue to lecture me on a non issue if it makes you feel better - I just won't continue to enable your BS anymore with a reply.

[seabeyond]

163. "she is picking on me. make her STOP" rollin eyes

:shrug:

you use wrong smilie..... then get pissed at me.

whine much

lol

[Hepburn]

169. +1,000,000

I am sick and tired of this "kid centered" society. When mine was a toddler back in the mid 1970s, you bet I had aborted trips, meals and other events if he threw a tantrum. I was the one with the kid disturbing the peace ~~ I was the one who needed to leave.

I always tried to run errands at a good time for a small child and not at nap or meal time unless it was an absolute emergency. And, yeah, even at good times, a small child can go off ~~ the issue is to remove the child to let him or her know that the behavior is NOT tolerated. After a few immediate, quick and abrupt moves like that, rarely did my toddler throw a tantrum.

[monmouth]

10. Haha, two-year olds who most likely need naps, respond so well

to this abuse...Geez..

[dflprincess]

17. Years ago when I was a cashier in a grocery store I used always

wonder what parents thought they were accomplishing by telling a wailing toddler if they didn't stop the parent "would give them something to cry about". Or worse, they would slap the child because, as you point out, nothing shuts a child up faster than having some pain inflicted on them. :sarcasm:

The sad part of this story is, if the parent had been the one to slap the child odds are nobody would have paid much attention, but a stranger does it - then it's abuse and it should be considered abusive no matter who smacks the child.

I remember one time I was shopping with my mother and we saw someone do this to her child then she caught Mom's eye and my mother, put on her best "Mrs. Gotrocks" voice and attitude and said "How would you like it if someone treated you that way?" and she walked away.

[sui generis]

20. Well, if a kiddo is really in distress

The parent SHOULD be doing something about it. But if the kiddo is just wailing to get attention or because they've learned that Mom will buy the candybar just to shut them up, then buying that candy bar is positive reinforcement of the behavior because Mom was a sucker.

You can't raise your kids to be street lawyers. You can't always negotiate behavior, or if you're doing it it's with the help and tolerance of the community. And that's rude. There are negative consequences to bad behavior that don't involve corporal punishment.

If I had caused a ruckus in a store, my Mom would have left the cart without a word, frogwalked me back out to the car past everyone in the store and then locked me in it. Germany - no worries about suffocating in Texas heat.

HOWEVER as the case turned out, being the oldest my Mom would have me take my wailing brother back to the car and sit there with him while he finished his tantrum and she finished her shopping. I would just read whatever book I had always had with me and ignored him out of existence - after a while he figured out he could get a candy bar by being good.

[monmouth]

23. My kids used to get into those modes every now and then. I would

lower my voice which meant they had to stop the tirade in order to hear me, while I'm wiping eyes I'm offering bribes, such as a stop to the custard stand or whatever on the way home. Can't remember when that didn't work. Haha, good times.

[dflprincess]

35. My mother just had a look that could stop me dead in my tracks

she occasionally resorted to threatening corporal punishment, but I was too cowardly to push her and see if she'd go through with that. She still uses that look on me but it's lost some effectiveness since she shrunk and I'm finally taller than her (it only took 56 years).

I never did manage to develop that look to use with my nieces and nephews but there were a few times we just left the store and a couple times that I took them home to their parents rather than going on with the plans we had. That seemed to work pretty well.

[monmouth]

38. Oh yeah, I have fond memories of "the look." ...n/t

[8 track mind]

138. we called it the "stink-eye" n/t

[Moosepoop]

185. In our house...

... it's "the hairy eyeball!!" B-)

[raccoon]

164. YES, YES, YES. You are SOOOOOOOO right.

"The sad part of this story is, if the parent had been the one to slap the child odds are nobody would have paid much attention, but a stranger does it - then it's abuse and it should be considered abusive no matter who smacks the child. "


When I was a kid I can remember on several occasions my "sweet and nice" (according to those who didn't have to live with her) mother slapped me.

My maternal grandmother, I recall, slapped me once. Want to know what my crime was? I was getting a roll out of a package of rolls. One of them fell on the floor and I laughed out loud. She was a cold, unfeeling old bitch.

I think it's great that now so many people find that sort of "discipline" (really abuse) is unacceptable.

And for those of you who think all baby boomers had it so easy and wonderful, a lot of them had to put up with this kind of shit from their loving parents--and almost everyone around them thought the parent/caregiver was always the one in the right.

[Winterblues]

11. A dollar to a doughnut he is a right winger.

I can not conceive of a Liberal behaving in such a manner.

[8 track mind]

139. personally if i was there

after the first slap his ass would have been painfully on the ground so fast and he would have stayed there until the cops arrived. what a self righteous pile of shit.

[Maru Kitteh]

144. It looks like we have one who is now upthread who would, given the chance.

[Rebubula]

208. LOLZ

I have met some liberals that were complete assholes and would fight you for no reason. They believed in most liberal ideals (gave money, campaigned, wrote letters etc), but were just mean.

Irrational anger is not only found in righties...

[harvey007]

12. He should have slapped the mother

:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

[spanone]

14. she should have kicked his ass

[xultar]

28. +10

[Number23]

157. +20

[sasquatch]

213. +30

[SeattleGirl]

15. Oh, so you approve of hitting women?

Your remark is quite tasteless.

[JTFrog]

53. What a fucked up thought.

The pizza man must be taking a detour.

[aikoaiko]

16. That's fuct up. I can think of any possible reason to do that.

[Robeysays]

19. what a crank?!?!?!

though, i must say, this isn't the worst thing i've seen at Wal-Mart.

[8 track mind]

140. ok i'll bite,

what WAS the worst thing you've ever seen at wal-mart

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. You don't stop a baby from crying by slapping it.

That's what shaking is for, dumbass.

[JVS]

188. LOL!

[xultar]

27. When security arrived I would have been picking my teeth with his penis.

Makes me wonder if the woman or the child were black or mixed.

[Toasterlad]

47. Gross.

[xultar]

95. I would have cut it off first. Geez. ;)

[Toasterlad]

103. LOL

[47of74]

201. EWWWWWW

[Doremus]

31. A member of the reichwing base .... nervous tics and all. nt

[winyanstaz]

62. It is assault and battery...

regardless of if the victim was a child or an adult.
NO one has the right to come up and attack your children..in public or in private any more than they have the right to come up and slap the lips off of you.
Apparently this Mr. Stephens needs to go to prison and attend some anger management classes at the very least. He should also be made to pay for any counseling this child may have to endure from the trauma of being attacked by a stranger.

[nolabear]

63. A two year old cannot regulate emotions.

A two year old cannot tell fantasy from reality. A two year old doesn't understand the concept of time, i.e. "later." A two year old has more frustration in its life than any physically healthy adult alive. Imagine being in a country where everything is much too big and difficult for you to handle, yet you're expected to handle it, you understand about half of what's going on and very little of how things work (i.e. it's a long way down if you step off that car seat), people can literally pick you up and put you where they want you and you can't tell them if it hurts, if you have to pee, if you're hungry, etc. other than by an elaborate game of charades and difficult to form words. This is all day every day. Now imagine your brain hasn't yet learned to quiet the emotional responses you have when these things happen.

This is not conjecture. It's basic child development. It's hard on children and hard on parents, who have to function somehow in that world or the child never learns that all important regulation. We ALL teach them, each and every day, even that kid in the Wall-Mart whose cries disrupt your peaceful Aisle 6 reverie.

I am absolutely an advocate of getting the child out of a bad situation and relieving the ears of the surrounding adults. But personally, I think the world would be a much better place if people didn't feel so antagonistic toward a little kid who can't help it, and a parent that has to be out in the world to get things done.

[JerseygirlCT]

74. Amen and thank you

This wasn't a child being "bad", this was a child who was upset - for whatever reason. As you say, at that age, it could be anything. And they don't cry to annoy the hell out of another shopper. And threats aren't going to do the job.

If possible, it's best to remove them from the situation. If not possible, some stranger deciding to step in and "parent" for you with violence is 100% unacceptable.

[Toasterlad]

113. And Yet, No One's Blaming the Children.

We (those of us who believe a child should be removed from a store if it's acting up) fully understand that the child cannot be held responsible for acting up. We don't blame the child. We blame the PARENT.

I am delighted to hear that you are an advocate of getting the child out of a bad situation. That is exactly how I feel. But I have never been antagonistic toward a child being a brat, I've only been antagonistic toward PARENTS who CHOOSE NOT TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. As I've said, I feel terrible for parents caught in situations where literally nothing can be done, such as the child on the airplane who's inconsolable for whatever reason. Or for parents in a doctor's office, seeking treatment for an obviously sick child. It's only the parents who clearly COULD take their child out of a public situation and choose not to that piss me off.

[Darth_Kitten]

122. Children on airplanes, don't get me started.......

actually, most seem to be "okay", the little babies just sleep, and the older kiddies watch the movies....

There was this one kid on my trip from London to Montreal, wailing non-stop for at least 5 hours (most of the flight).....at the beginning of the flight, the attendant TRIED to get the parents to strap the little darling in, then just threw up their hands and stated "Well, if anything happens, don't say I didn't warn you"

"Mom" couldn't be bothered saying ANYTHING to her toddler from hell the entire trip. Dad was left to coddle or ignore the kid alternately.
Cranking up the music on high couldn't drown out the wailing....it wasn't hungry crying, or hurt crying, the kid maybe even laughed for a few minutes so probably wasn't sick or anything, just couldn't keep still.

Yes, I know they are young and suspectible to being cranky, but did I have to pay so much money for a killer migraine?

[davidpdx]

148. I agree with you a 100% as well as the comment below

the parents are responsible for their kids. Probably the worst situation is when I fly. About every two years I fly from my home overseas to visit family. As a child I had severe problems with my ears, so I fully understand and sympathize with the poor kids who get stuck on the airplane. Taking off and landing must be just aweful for them.

The person in the article was dead wrong to do what he did. If it was that bad, I would have gone and got a manager. There were plenty of other ways to deal with the situation then how it ended.

[madmom]

65. I wonder what would happen if, while I was trying to get my groceries,

I went up and punched one of the two men who have to tag along with their wife and stand there in the middle of the freaking aisle and talk to another old man who has to tag along. I honest thing there ought to be certain days of the week that men and kids are not allowed in the grocery store because they do get in the way a lot. I say this as a wife and a mother.

[JerseygirlCT]

76. LOL, but I have to say, as often as not

it's the women, yakking on their cells, who are clogging up the aisles at my store. Carts stretched across the entire aisle, oblivious to the world. I don't get it.

It would be nice if there was a slow lane to relegate those folks to, wouldn't it?

[Dappleganger]

66. Where's the manager???

If the child wouldn't stop being disruptive the manager should have asked the mom to remove the child from the store and come back later.

And if that idiot had raised a hand to my child, Momma Bear would have beat his ass with a case of Sam's club sodas.

[8 track mind]

142. "Momma Bear would have beat his ass with a case of Sam's club sodas."

i know you are being dead serious, but that does bring a freaking hilarious image to the mind's eye. I can just see some 61 year old unkempt rethug getting the living shit pummeled out of him with a six pack of cheap ass root beer while the mom is screaming every known curse word in history......

[Mari333]

67. honey if that were my grandson, that son of a bitch would be singing soprano nt

[cigsandcoffee]

70. I feel his pain.

After people have kids, I think they tend to forget just how annoying they are to people who liberally use birth control.

I understand that you just can't slap other peoples' children, of course, but I certainly comprehend the annoyance.

[Warren DeMontague]

72. "Apparently this Mr. Stephens needs a lot of help and has a lot of bottled up anger."

Apparently, he's not the only one.

[cigsandcoffee]

73. I'm not remotely angry.

I just think little kids are extremely annoying. Is that wrong?

[Warren DeMontague]

75. So? Spend your time in bars, strip clubs, or porn theaters if kids bug you so much.

As I said upthread, trying to pretend like there are "two sides" to a story about some fuckleberry assaulting a 2 year old is like trying to "see the perspective" of a rapist.

It's fucking offensive, but I could have won money betting people would show up in this thread to do it, anyway.

[cigsandcoffee]

78. You obviously have a chip on your shoulder.

Clearly, and as I said before, one can not slap aother person's child. Doing so should lead to terrible criminal consequences, or possibly some sort of mental help.

But that doesn't mean I can't sympathise with a person being extremely annoyed by yelling little kids, albeit well prior to the point that you'd actually smack one that wasn't yours.

I frankly think it's kind of arrogant and selfish for people to inflict their children on the rest of us while we're dining, shopping, or what not. If they can't behave themselves, then the public shouldn't be forced to endure them. Don't you think?

[Warren DeMontague]

80. What is it with you people and being "inflicted" with children?

For fuck's sake, it's a Wal-Mart, not a Supermax prison. The average Wal-Mart is something like 200,000 square feet. Are you seriously suggesting this poor, poor man had nowhere to go that wasn't directly in the audio range of the screaming kid?

Yeah. I know. You "sympathize" with the nutjob who attacked a 2 year old, but you can't find any sympathy for the kid- for whom you have no idea WHAT the reason was for the crying which was 'inflicted' upon the public- or for the parent, who, again, was experiencing unknown circumstances around this event.

No, you reflexively "sympathize" with this ass, because... what? Your personal planet is being infested with the next generation of humans?

It's HARD to take little kids out in public, even when they're on their best behavior, not that I suspect you give a shit.

Yes, the polite thing to do is remove an unruly kid from this sort of situation, if and when such a thing is possible. But you know what? It is ALSO entirely possible that the easiest course of action would have been for Mr. "annoyed" to take his issues-laden, psychotic ass elsewhere, like to the liquor or sedative aisle, if the kid was bugging him so much.

I think, if one is so high strung or otherwise fucked up that they can't deal with kids being kids in public, they should get some fucking therapy, that's what I think.

[cigsandcoffee]

83. I think you're the one that's high strung, my friend.

If I drew a diagram or some kind of flow chart, would it help you to understand that I don't approve of smacking another person's child? I could paint a picture, but it would take time.

What I am saying is that I sympathise with people who are annoyed by the unruly children of others, if not the actions some of them may choose to deal with it. Too often, parents allow their little terrorists to roam free, causing mayhem and irritation for those of us going politely about our business.

Indeed, I don't care that it's hard for people to control their kids. If you have them, that's what you've signed up for. One can't buy milk and eggs in a strip club now, can they? If you're going to take them to a public place where thoughtful, childless people are, then do us the favour of keeping their behaviour in check. Fair enough?

[Warren DeMontague]

87. "Too often, parents allow their little terrorists to roam free"

Your language speaks for itself. I've met many thoughtful, childless people- I was one, once, myself.

But they're not showing up in this thread in great numbers. I said, yes, the ideal thing to do with a screaming toddler is to remove him or her from the situation, if and when possible. But beyond that? If you can't deal with kids in public, too fucking bad. You're the grownup, act like one.

[cigsandcoffee]

89. "If you can't deal with kids in public, too fucking bad."

This is exactly the problem with so many parents today. I think it's great that your decision to have kids was some kind of sea-change in your life. Kudos for finding meaning in the shaping of a child, and the best of luck on your journey.

But this decision of yours to have kids - and the resulting responsibility - is one that many of us have chosen not to suffer through. Our decision, as much as yours, deserves respect.

All I would ask - as a proud and thoughtful non-parent - is that you quickly remove the offending child from a public place when said child cannot be made to control him or herself, and disturbs the peace of the general public (not "when possible," but whenever the child becomes obnoxiously unruly). If this is too much to ask, then I would suggest you didn't give enough thought to the kid thing after all.

Too many parents these days just don't care when their kids run amok. I'd like to see some PSAs on that.

[Warren DeMontague]

91. As a "thoughtful non-parent" - who nevertheless refers to an assault victim as a "brat"

Wait? What was that? Oh, yeah. A TWO YEAR OLD ASSAULT VICTIM.

is, automatically, a "brat".

Nice.

I'd suggest you have no clue as to the logistics your average, say, Wal-Mart shopping parent of a 2 year old may be dealing with.

I am CERTAIN it would have been easier for Mr. Gotta-Slap-The-Brat to go to a different aisle. If the hemorrhoid medication or penis enlarger he absolutely had to get was behind the mom and kid, he probably could have worked that out, too.

Was this kid "running amok"? Mr. Pin-dick Aggression Issues walked up to HER and slapped her, not the other way around. Oh, and he was spry enough to try to get the fuck out of there when security was called, until another customer nabbed him.

But beyond that? No, I'm sorry, the world is NOT designed for your exclusive convenience, and it contains children that are NOT going to all stay home until they're 18. If you walk into a 200,000 square foot Wal-Mart, you should be prepared that you might encounter a screaming kid. If you wanted martinis, tuxedos, and sophisticated adult conversation, you should have gone somewhere else.

I've seen this type of asshole, before. I remember waiting for a plane in a dinky airport- (and you know what? We didn't have a choice ... get that? NO CHOICE... on this trip- I'd sooner eat broken glass than take little kids on an airplane, much less "subject" other passengers to them, TYVM) So, my wife and I and our then 2 yr old son are sitting in plastic chairs, son is looking out the window at the planes, climbing a bit on the chair b/c he's bored, but not screaming not doing anything obtrusive... uptight, angry looking late middle aged dude comes and CHOOSES to sit down next to us, glaring (probably at my long hair, but who knows) ... so son is trying to get into a pretzel bag, we are gently but firmly telling him no, son, being 2, is not listening, we take bag away, he climbs up to try to get it.. he is NOT screaming, NOT climbing on anyone but his mother, not doing anything offensive in the least..

so this genius basically volunteers to give him a "Hot Bottom" and starts lecturing my wife about parenting. Excuse me? Go fuck off. None of your fucking business, jackass. These people aren't "inflicted" with these situations, they SEEK THEM OUT because they feel some fucked-up authoritarian need to parent other peoples' kids.

[madmom]

168. Who is the one to decide what is "obnoxiously unruly" ?

[Raineyb]

182. Based on your replies to this thread I highly doubt you were thoughtful as a childless

person as you seem not to be a thoughtful parent.

Unless this change in finding some point to your life that having children allegedly brings has erased that part of you.

[Warren DeMontague]

193. Right. I'm not thoughtful because I think it's asinine to "sympathize" with someone who assaults a

2 yr. old.

Because my PRIMARY concern isn't the delicate ears of some prune-faced shitbag in Wal-Mart who, apparently, can't go to a different aisle if a screaming 2 year old bugs him so much.

Because I don't believe that a screaming 2 year old -TWO year old!- is indicative of "poor parenting" or a "lack of discipline" but, rather, something that 2 year olds do, and always have done...

Because I don't think that Wal-Mart is such a sanctified, holy, silent space akin to the Opera, or Church, or a Black Tie Dinner, where I am aghast that the mother of a 2 yr. old having a tantrum didn't drop everything she was doing to hustle the kid out of what was probably a 200,000 sq. foot warehouse at the first sign of a temper tantrum..

Because I'm sick of the same, tired bullshit coming from the same whiny "adults" on this board, EVERY TIME a thread about kids in public comes up- bitching about the "breeding" of "brats" or "cockroaches" or "little terrorists", constant fucking grousing at the indignity that THEY might have to -somewhere, at some point- encounter a small child acting like a small child on THEIR Personal Planet Earth...

Particularly given that this current batch of bullshit comes in a thread where, again, a guy walked up to a 2 yr. old kid; really, practically a baby- and started repeatedly slapping her face--- why? Because he was sick of her crying. :eyes: Oh, man. If it had been my kid, that dude would have permanent problems beyond any jail sentence the twisted fuck is likely to receive.

Again, the adults -the ones who are angry, and entitled acting- because they might be forced, at some point, to 'endure' or be 'inflicted with' an upset kid in public in, say, a grocery store... the ADULTS are the ones who need to check their behavior and grow the fuck up. Yes, when possible, parents ought to remove an out of control kid from a public situation. But more importantly, people need to stop "sympathizing" with the "extenuating circumstances" that supposedly motivated this asshole to attack a kid. As I said elsewhere, it's like going into a rape thread and complaining about women getting drunk and wearing short skirts... "Oh, I'm not saying she 'deserved it', BUT...."

That sort of thing would be offensive as all get-out there, and it's offensive here.

[seabeyond]

195. ya... wink.

can you believe....

you and i

are on the same side

bah hahahhaha

[Warren DeMontague]

196. Stranger things have happened.

:hi:

[seabeyond]

197. lol lol

:hi:

[Raineyb]

209. No you're not thoughtful because you're a hypocrite who spews the vitriol that you claim to dislike

YOU are the one who called all child free people names earlier up in the thread despite the fact that the man has kids his damn self so to even try to blame the attitude of the "child free" is disingenuous in the first place. So no I don't think you're remotely thoughtful. Self righteous and apparently unwilling to see that some parents let their children run wild without bothering to rein them in yes. Thoughtful? Fuck no!

I suppose you're entitled to your delusion of thoughtfulness but I'm not obligated to play along with them.

And I don't recall the poster saying that the man who slapped the child was correct. In fact they went out of their way to say that the person was WRONG so your soapbox is a tad misplaced.

That not withstanding, since the fuck when is it verboten to say that perhaps you don't have the patience to deal with some parents and their lack of control over their children in public?

[Warren DeMontague]

217. No, I did NOT call "all child free people names"

That is not what I said. Not at all.

And if you look over this thread, you will find several examples of this: "I'm not saying that what the guy did was right, BUT".

Which is fairly equivalent to "I'm not saying the girl dancing on the bar deserved to get raped, BUT"

Awful lot of "buts" ... and butts... in this thread.

I do think that anyone who doesn't understand that a 2 yr. old having a temper tantrum isn't a matter of a "lack of parental control"... :eyes: well, it's obvious you don't have kids.

[Raineyb]

223. Bullshit. You most certainly did call child free people names

It's the first post in this thread that I responded to in fact which is why I remember it in the first place. And not for nothing but being a parent doesn't give you any kind of special status although you apparently think it does. My status as a parent or not, of which you know less than shit, has not a damn thing to do with the often seen wild child running around public areas with their parents not even making an attempt to do a damn thing about it. It's fucking dangerous and then YOU would be pissing about the thoughtless bastard who ran over little Johnny or Janey. Furthermore, the discussion had moved from the specific to the general and my comment about people letting their children run wild stands. I certainly hope your faux thoughtfulness didn't include any notion of home schooling as you are clearly incapable of comprehending what you read and we have enough people who can't read for comprehension as it is.

[Warren DeMontague]

225. Robble Robble Robble.

You don't need to "remember" the post; it's still here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6447064&mesg_id=6448381

Here is the post it was in response to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6447064&mesg_id=6448324

You'll notice that the post I was responding to made a generalization about "parents". Not some parents, mind you. MY post contained the words "most" and "likely", which clearly qualify it as NOT a slur against ALL people without kids. Furthermore, it was a DIRECT response to an asinine piece of bitching about parents- ALL parents, even the concept and motivations of parenthood itself.

As for these hypothetical parents letting their "wild child" "run around public areas".. what does that have to do with a man who walked UP TO a crying 2 year old in Wal-Mart and took the initiative to slap her repeatedly? Or is anything an excuse for you to grind your axe against parents?

Oh, and speaking of reading comprehension, Ms. Run-On-Sentence- paragraph breaks and formatting are your friends.


ps. "of which you know less than shit"... I thought so, you don't have kids.

[redqueen]

224. BRA-FUCKING-VO!

:applause:

[Hepburn]

171. I've had kids....

...and no, it is not always hard to take them out in public.

Why would you say something like that? :shrug:

[subcomhd]

149. porn theaters?

theaters?

[seabeyond]

86. what IF a toddler is nothing but light and sweetness day after day after day. the mom continually

praised for being SUCH a good mom (which in the old days did not warrant praise, was expected, today a mom gets praised for being a parent). what IF this child that is nothing but sweetness has a two minute melt down for any of the many reasons 2 yr olds can have a melt down

BUT

it happened in public

and YOU see it

and it is the out of control child with parents that dont parent adn they should have never had children, ever ever ever cause the toddler is after all, having a tough two minutes that interfer in your life.

and adult has a bad day. we yell, rant and rave. then we calm down and say sorry, having a bad day

two year olds arent capable of that

they are only out of control and are inflected on you

[cigsandcoffee]

90. There are a lot of "what ifs."

What if the kid was a total monster, and the mother refused to administer discipline? That would be pretty annoying, wouldn't it?

In any case, I am not saying this man should have slapped a stranger's child, so it really doesn't matter what the circumstances were. All I am saying is that screaming (or otherwise misbehaving) kids are annoying, and too often, parents don't seem all that willing to control them.

I think that's pretty selfish.

[Warren DeMontague]

92. And what if she was hiding a dirty bomb in her diaper?

You know, "little terrorists", and all that.

[seabeyond]

94. all of the story is what ifs and the people assuming this toddler behaves like this cause mother

does not do her job is the biggest what if

an adult makes excuses for their poor behavior, tantrums in public. a toddler thread comes up and people are all a twitter about the little ones behavior.

how many tantrums have you thrown as an adult, but excuse. yet you dont ahve the grace to give it to a toddler

a toddler, 2 yrs old is NOT the same as a 6 yr old throwing a fit over something. a toddler is a whole different world. and shame on anyone that puts the world of responsibility on a little toddler

when so many many adults fail.

[Warren DeMontague]

194. I know. Anyone claiming that a 2 yr. old is throwing a tantrum b/c the parent 'doesn't discipline'

has NO fucking clue about kids.

Go figure.

[imdjh]

210. SO can you shoot the man who is about to hit your two year old?

After all, for all you know he's a serial slapper who has slapped no fewer than a dozen kids to death from Peru to Sweden.

[seabeyond]

215. and the blue grass and green sky shall meet. WTF. where the hell do you get ANYTHING about shootin

anyone.

wtf

you have to at least have something to go on when you attribute a statement to a poster.

[WildEyedLiberal]

97. What an utterly disgusting post

The posts in this thread calling children "monsters," "terrorists," "spawn," and annoyances to people who "practice birth control" are tantamount to bitching about "sluts" or "whores" or "bitches" in a thread about a rape victim.

This CHILD was the victim of a violent crime, but YOU "feel" the assailant's "pain." That speaks VOLUMES about your lack of basic humanity.

Oh, and for all the self-centered child-hating egomaniacs in this thread - two year olds aren't sophisticated enough to "throw tantrums because Mommy didn't buy them a candy bar." You might - MIGHT - have a point if the kid were four or five - but you'd still be disgusting for rationalizing violent assault and battery against a child. But a two year old is, for all extents and purposes, a baby who can walk. That you can sympathize with striking a BABY is beyond appalling.

[seabeyond]

98. i wonder... how many of these adults are throwing the very tantrums they complain

about with two yr old. and though they may not waaaaaaa.... a chewing out, yelling, condemning aggressively is their expression of tantrum. and though they call the two yr old names, they feel well justified for their behavior and feel no shame.

an adult yells, cusses, argues. a two year old cries.

[WildEyedLiberal]

99. The kids can't fucking help it - the adults can

Fucking self-centered me-first adults try my patience way fucking more than a crying screaming kid.

No, I don't LIKE to hear crying children, either. I don't LIKE a lot of things. But I'm a fucking grown up, so I have learned that I will, occasionally, encounter things that infringe upon my personal comfort zone. It is not incumbent upon the supermarket and everyone in it to cater to my whims.

[Number23]

158. All you have to do is a DU search on the names of the posters in this thread criticizing the child

and her mother. Some of them are the screaming-est, whining-est, most temper tantrum throwing assholes on this whole damn site.

And they are too arrogant, isolated or just too goddamned stupid to see the irony of the situation.

[Hannah Bell]

181. the new democrats!

goes with their support for war, health insurance for all, & charter schools.

[stanwyck]

178. Wow. What a little princess YOU are. If you can't handle

a few minutes of a child crying, you must have a very difficult time navigating life. There are much tougher scenarios out there than withstanding the wailing of a child. Clearly, you're the spoiled brat here.
Time to do some charity work. Help out those less fortunate. And find out that a few minutes of listening to a crying child is the least of some people's problems.

[frogmarch]

88. yes, crying kids are irritating,

especially in stores, but if for some reason my kid were crying in a store and someone slapped him or her, I'd clobber the effer who did it.

[LanternWaste]

93. I suppose I have a knack for tuning out...

I suppose I have a knack for tuning out unpleasant noises that many people don't practice-- crying, arguing, cursing, loud music-- it's all background noise to me.

And I certainly can't see myself weakening to the point of allowing myself frustration (or God forbid a slap) for nothing more than a most natural of noises which probably happens a million times a day throughout the world.

A child cries. It's natural... and neither the infant nor the parent has control of it in many instances. I imagine the people who cannot tune it our and/or allow themselves to get frustrated to this degree have much higher expectations than evolution allows.

Too much anger. Too much frustration. Too much petulance.

[BlooInBloo]

96. I'd love to repeatedly hold him and smack him in the face over and over and over.

[submerged99]

106. I chose not to have children and don't regret it.

As a guy, I made the choice not to have children. Children are a lot of work and I always felt like i couldn't properly handle that type of responsibility. For the most part, I am rather indifferent to babies, toddlers and children.

That being said, I understand that babies and children are not adults, and I don't expect them to behave as such. Hearing them yell and fuss at the store is something I encounter all the time but, hey, there are far more horrible things that one can experience on a daily basis.

A 2 year old toddler is defenseless. They have no way to protect themselves from bigger kids, let alone adults.

If I had seen this scum slap a little 2 year toddler, I would have been in jail tonight, too.

[seabeyond]

109. not adults, and I don't expect them to behave as such.... something so simple and obvious

yet so far from so many grasps.

[submerged99]

123. Yeah being an adult is not synonymous with being mature

I was brought up to respect people, whatever stage of life they are in, with the understanding that there are differences in those stages.

I get far more irritated with adults you yak loudly on their cell phones in libraries and things of that nature. For some reason, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that those using terms like "brats" are probably the very same people who behave obnoxiously in public.

[seabeyond]

125. these very people are the ones that have little tolerance

for about all people, not just the little ones.

one of my greatest lessons in life was

tolerance for even the intolerant.

[carlyhippy]

110. what a jerk, he could have just left the area, he probably yells at kids to get off his lawn too

he probably had to walk 50 miles to school uphill every day in the snow and had to eat twigs and leaves for breakfast and liked it by golly.

[Maru Kitteh]

146. He's not just a jerk. He committed a violent crime. An assault, against a person.

I hope it is not lost on the prosecution in this case that toddlers are people too.

[Javaman]

127. what does this asshole think he is? some sort of b movie actor trying to "brace up" an hysterical

person?

what a colossal asshole. I would have kicked him square in the nuts.

[Javaman]

128. what does this asshole think he is? some sort of b movie actor trying to "brace up" an hysterical

person?

what a colossal asshole. I would have kicked him square in the nuts.

[Fire1]

131. Of all the nerve. Guess he thought he could get away with it. n/t

[seabeyond]

133. why? why would anyone think they could get away with that.

a whole persoective i hadnt even thought of. but of course he thought he could get away with it. or why do it. but

why

why would he think he could get away with it.

now i will ponder this, lol. as i go off to bed

[Fire1]

135. THAT was my initial reaction! What made him think he could

get away with it?????

[submerged99]

143. Maybe he just disrupted a town hall forum

Maybe he just helped to disrupt a town hall forum and thought his rage, which makes him a hero to the right, would be applauded in other areas.

[krispos42]

151. Sounds like an excellent way to get a dose of pepper spray...

...or a sharp blow to the jaw, followed by some time in the back seat of a police cruiser.

[AsahinaKimi]

155. was charged with cruelty with children

Stephens was charged with cruelty with children in the first degree, which is a felony. He is being held in the Gwinnett County Detention Center without bond.

Good!

[AieinAristuein]

166. damn right

[stanwyck]

172. My solution when I had a crying child

was to bolt the store. I couldn't stand the tantrum myself. And I had twins. And I was very sensitive to other shoppers and their judgment. Unbelievable the dirty looks you get. And comments. Meanwhile, a crying child is a pretty common occurrence. It's how babies and small children communicate. As a parent, you get to know the different kinds of crying and what is meant. I worked full-time (still do) when my twins were babies, so there were times we were at the grocery store after work. They were hungry and tired. I was hungry and tired. And sometimes one (or both) would rebel. I'd leave my cart and head for the parking lot. If I was able to get everyone calmed down, we'd return to the store. I'm not saying this is the best solution. I'm just relating what I did. A quick trip to the ladies' room also worked. Sometimes.
Now that my children are adults, I'm very compassionate towards other shoppers with small children. I know the pressures. People who get angry about children crying must be people with such soft lives that a crying child is beyond their ability to cope.
Give them a trip to Afghanistan to get some perspective on life.

[seabeyond]

177. how many glares did you get while you were trying your best to get out without disturbing anyone

people are so impatient and lacking in empathy. a parents loses regardless what they do and toddler labled "brat" without knowledge, info, or understanding.

it is not the toddlers tantrum i have issue with. it is the adults throwing their tantrum. thru years, growth adn baility to communicate thru expression and word, their tantrum is ok though.

and socially acceptable this behavior seems to be

[redqueen]

176. So I guess in the next rape thread, I'll just start talking about how women should be careful about

how they dress.

And how women these days behave, and how that behavior needs to change.

Since apparently it's okay to come in this thread and make a whole list of reasons defining culpability on the part of the victim/parent... why not?

Yeah, it was a few slaps in the face of a two-year-old, not as traumatic as rape... but the behavior on the part of those who come in with their bullshit is the same.

Sickening and shameful.

[EndersDame]

184. Maybe y'all would like to start a petition for round the clock childcare

so the mom doesn't have to take a tired tyke to the store

[Lance_Boyle]

186. Maybe that's up to mom and dad to arrange and fund when they CHOOSE

to have children.

YOUR choice, YOUR responsibility.

[EndersDame]

190. Most of my friends did not choose to have kids it just sorta happened

some of them while they were under age of 18 and did not get the 'rents permission to have an abortion.Besides poor women should be able to have families too

[Lars39]

187. I'd settle for what France does in a heartbeat.

[EndersDame]

189. which is?

[Lars39]

191. This article covers it:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/54512.php

[ecstatic]

192. Wow. Just hearing about this and it hits close to home

Very close.

[Name removed]

198. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

199. food for thought. stupid post. nt

[47of74]

202. Too bad someone didn't say to him before he hit the kid

"Hey dumbass, the store is really big. If you go someplace else in the store for a while you won't hear the kid at all and maybe the kid will be gone by the time you get back."

What a dumb fuck.

[ccharles000]

212. the guy needs to go to jail