You know it. They know it. We all know it. They know we know it. And they know we know they know it.

[Stinky The Clown]

Single payer is the most cost effective option, bar none. The rest of this bullshit debate is mental masturbation and intentional obfuscation to keep them in the good graces of their corporate sponsors.

If you don't see this, you may well not be looking.

[leftofthedial]

1. bingo

:thumbsup:

[grantcart]

2. OK if your going to start quoting Bill Russell then we may have to get married.

[polichick]

3. Yep - silly game. nt

[closeupready]

4. Yep. Completely agree. And the fancy convoluted language doesn't mean I can't see what's going on

They are deliberately obfuscating the simple fact that single payer is the most cost-effective way to ensure universal access to health care, period.

[Hannah Bell]

33. and that just creating "medicare for all" would be the simplest solution in terms of bureaucracy &

getting up to speed in the shortest time.

smoke & mirrors.

[closeupready]

49. Ding, Ding, Ding! We have a winner, folks!

There we go.

[malaise]

69. DIng Ding + one

It's that simple.

[Horse with no Name]

5. Silly goose

Single payer doesn't line the pockets of their owners.
How can THAT be effective?

[Enthusiast]

60. zackly. nt

[YOY]

6. One more thing we all know.

If they win here...all that bullshit they have thrown. All those lies. They will solidify as "wing nut truth."

They'll be walking around expecting us to thank them for saving us all from the likes of "Death Panels" that want to kill Sarah Palin's baby and everyone's grandmother, "Soviet Union Communism", and "Democrat Only Healthcare".

[Enthusiast]

62. And how many times

have we heard RW pundits tell us how Hillary FAILED at health care reform? As if it was her fault. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

[unapatriciated]

66. don't forget the "civil war" that we are "forcing" on them.

because we insist on true health care reform.

[xxqqqzme]

88. Guess who will be first in line to sign up?

The teabagger's kids & grandkids.

[Hawkeye-X]

7. I already know it's a mental masturbation

We need to hit everyone who is opposed to Single Payer with a rubber mallet.

Hawkeye-X

[JimWis]

8. I have to agree. They all know it.

[Auggie]

9. My Congressman told me America wasn't ready for single-payer

He meant to say, Corporate America won't let single-payer happen.

Blue dog and bullshit artist Mike Thompson, CA-1 :thumbsdown:

[rhett o rick]

74. That's like saying a starving person isnt ready for a steak. Give em gruel to ease into it. nt

[lark]

80. Real Truth

Corporate America and their paid lackeys in government will not ever let single payer happen. It would take a major outrange, very highly publicized, to change this and the msm will not go along because they want to appease their corporate masters too.

[goclark]

93. Why was Sen. Kennedy in favor of the Public Option?

Kerry mentioned it the other day.

:shrug:

[Fire1sKid]

98. EXACTLY!!!!!!!

[madmax]

10. k&r n/t

[TransitJohn]

11. Truth.

It's so obvious it almost hurts.

[HereSince1628]

12. From the copralite side SP is also very destructive

it will result in billions in lost profits for companies that represent something upwards of 16% of our tragedy of our nation's GDP. The only time I know of when having the government knock out 16% of an economy is something that gets done gladly is when that 16% represents national spending needed to carry out a war that ends with us as victors.

Knocking insurance overhead from 30% to 3%-5% is GREAT for consumers probably the best thing for the economy as a whole. BUT, it is the crashing end of an epoch of all-the-traffic-will-bear insurance premiums. And the folks dividing up all those billions have 100s of millions to spend trying to prevent what they see is a death sentence to their profiteering ways.

You know that, I know that, they all know that we know that. And we know we know they know it. They'll lean on their money to get their way. We have nothing to offer but votes.

Individually, we are pretty much pwned.

Only through BIG NOISY UNAVOIDABLE demonstrations on the streets of every city and town could we change the votes of the blue dogs and the republicans to get single payer. Those that have healthcare see this as the fight of the 47 million without. I'm not sure there are 1 million or even 400,000 who would show up for such noisey demonstrations to demand language in a bill that will in the end be compromised via conference committee.

[pundaint]

76. National Strike?

Perhaps we could refuse to spend a dime on Sunday September 20 from 6AM until Noon as a demonstration, and if that doesn't work we'll try a weekday. Obviously Washington doesn't believe the people are really paying attention - a reasonable assumption. Is it wrong?

[HereSince1628]

89. That would be great

But only 47 million who lack insurance and many of them are jobless. How do the jobless stike? I'm not convinced that those folks who have jobs and insurance would strike on behalf of those of us who don't.

I do think it will take bigger than big demonstrations. In recent years, even when large demonstrations occurred (such as the antiwar rallies on Iraq) Congress simply ignored them.

[slipslidingaway]

13. Big K&R n/t

[Captain Hilts]

14. I know it. My cat knows it. My military & Canadian friends know it. Enough shilly-shallying about!

[Hissyspit]

21. My brother said that my niece's slightly severed finger would not have been fixed

under a government-run plan.

He is retired military and my niece (bless her heart, she's 12 and dropped an iron grate cover on it) is covered by Tricare. :shrug:

K&R for Stinky.

[LuckyLib]

24. Did your brother see "Sicko" where the carpenter had to choose which amputated finger

to have reattached because he didn't have enough money for both? In the good ole US of A?

[Hissyspit]

27. There's no way my brother would see "Sicko."

He's the one who told me in 2000 that bin Laden was not a real threat, just a boogeyman for the Clinton administration.

[John Q. Citizen]

28. It's a shame you don't have it on tape to play at Christmas time and

other family reunions.

That would be fun to see the process in action, where he chooses to either defend or to minimizes the statement.

[Hannah Bell]

34. Tricare = gov't-run plan, right?

[Hissyspit]

39. Government funded. You're paying for it.

They did a great job on her finger.

"The TRICARE program is managed by TRICARE Management Activity (TMA) under the authority of the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs). TRICARE is the civilian care component of the Military Health System, although historically it also included health care delivered in the military medical treatment facilities.

The ultimate responsible organization for administration of TRICARE is the U.S. Department of Defense Military Health System, which organized the TRICARE Management Activity (TMA). The TRICARE Management Activity contracts with several large health insurance corporations to provide claims processing, customer service and other administrative functions to the TRICARE program. Currently, there are three regional Managed Care Support Contractors (MCSCs), a Medicare/TRICARE Dual Eligible Fiscal Intermediary Contractor (TDEFIC), and a TRICARE Pharmacy contractor, who administers both Mail Order Pharmacy (TMOP) and Retail Pharmacy (TRRx) programs. In addition several administrative contractors provide quality management, auditing, and statistical services. TMA also oversees the TRICARE Dental Program (TDP), run by United Concordia, and TRICARE Retiree Dental Program (TRDP), run by Delta Dental."

[Hannah Bell]

40. did you tell him?

[Hissyspit]

41. He stuck it in an email about other really important stuff, so I didn't mention it.

[Hannah Bell]

43. too bad.

[Ninga]

53. Oh my goodness, I haven't heard "shilly-shally" in decades!!!! Is it safe to say you were born

before 1945???

[Enthusiast]

64. Shilly-shallying says it well. nt

[Laelth]

15. k&r for the truth. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[RagAss]

16. My teabag knows it.

[oligarhy]

17. Yep

...

[windoe]

18. It doesn't matter what Americans know or don't know--

all that matters is what are we going to DO about it? Are we ready to stand up for our rights and make noise? The more noise we make, the more response there is!! Logic and reason are important, but if we leave it up to them to respond to us being aware, it will never happen.

It is the old story, every day the insurance companies delay reform, is a day of untold profits, it is about the $$$$$$$$$, and power. Who has the most power? The American people, or the companies? Now is our chance to change this equation.

[kster]

19. KRNT

[slay]

20. K&R

werd to the truth

[donheld]

22. Yes I know it

[trickyguy]

23. Yes to single payer but I still like mental masturbation. Keeps me on my toes.

:evilgrin:

[closeupready]

48. Also helps flush toxins from the brain.

Or so I've heard. :rofl:

[rhett o rick]

75. Just a min. I go to a lot of trouble getting toxins in the brain. Vodka, todays toxin of choice. nt

[brooklynite]

25. Then all you have to do...

...is convince the public to feel the same way. As much as Politicians like contributions, they like votes more.


That being said, I think the public isn't ready to accept Single-Payer, any more than they were willing to nominate Dennis Kucinich. In my view, most Americans are conservative...not ideologically, but in the sense of resistant to radical change. This attitude, while frustrating to progressives, also helps stop Republican idiocy, such as privatization of Social Security.

[bertman]

26. I'd call that a known known.

Nice work, Stinky.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

29. Medicare for all -

it's already in place, it works wonderfully, and everyone in it just loves it.

So what's the problem?

If we don't get that, we get nothing, because the way the public option is worded, it's gonna be beyond the reach of so many people, provided they make it to 2013, or whatever the first date is when they're eligible while the new system gets up and running.

Medicare, Medicaid - they work. Let's just make them bigger, and take care of ALL Americans................

K&R..............

[unapatriciated]

73. and they would work even better with a larger and healthier pool.

I can't understand why some just don't get it. Insurance works on the premise of a large pool of healthy to offset those that are sick. The only thing we are changing in that premise is profit. We can than take those $ and put them back into health care via more doctors, hospital and research.
We let private insurance get involved in medicare with plan D and that has proven to be a mess.

[CoffeeCat]

30. Healthcare reform and single payer are synonymous....

When healthcare became a central issue in the primary election and in the general presidential
election--everyone damn well knew we were talking about REAL REFORM--not some watered-down, bullshit,
"public option" nonsense.

This is such horsepucky.

They are acting as if they are fighting for us--when they are fighting for NOTHING. The public option
will change nothing.

All of this ruckus at the town meetings---staged. All of this "Ohmygosh...passing healthcare is soooo
difficult....oh no....and we don't agree...oh the Dem party what will happen to us...ohhhh...ohhh...making
laws is soooo hard and we want to do the right thing and people are against it...ohhhh help us...and what will
our constituents think...and oh my gosh the blue dogs...must take summer break to think...." is
a bunch of baloney wrapped in absurdity.

All that is missing from Capitol Hill is the stage and the velvet curtains! We are being played.

The insurance companies decided long ago, that we get NOTHING and they get the truckloads of cash.
Everything we see now is a bunch of hooey.

If the public option passes it will be a disaster. It will not be true reform, so it will have problems and it
will not solve cost issues, people who are uninsured because they cannot afford payments and other
logistical problems. Then, the Republicans will be able to say, "See! We told you that socialized medicine
was bad!! Just look at how awful this is...and the Democrats wanted to go even further than this!! Aren't you
glad we Republicans saved you from more healthcare horrors???"

Why doesn't Obama see this? Probably the same reason that he didn't see that installing Geithner and the rest of
the getalong gang was a sure ticket to enriching the corporations and destroying what's left of our economy.

[kath]

65. Agree w/ you that passing a non-reform "reform" bill is worse than doing nothing at all.

It will set back any chance of REAL reform by decades.

I'm so absofuckinlutely sick of this shit. :banghead: :banghead:

[CoffeeCat]

96. Exaclty...passing the public option is WORSE than nothing...

The public option will be a failed experiment.

The critical problems that surround our healthcare system will NOT be cured by the
public option. It will be a clusterf**k.

The public option will embolden those who have always wanted to demonstrate that
we need to keep our current system.

So, to anyone who says, "Something is better than nothing!"...you are so wrong.

[DRex]

31. K&R nt.

[Joe the Liberal]

32. Agreed 100%.....

Single payer has been proven to work, is it perfect? no, but like you said it's the most cost effective, this debate IS bullshit indeed.

[jgraz]

35. Well, technically, nationalized healthcare is the most cost-effective option

But, in the spirit of bipartisanship, I'm willing to compromise on Single Payer.

[defendandprotect]

36. MEDICARE FOR ALL, EVERYONE IN, NO ONE OUT --- ready to go now!!

[defendandprotect]

37. We need some 'MEDICARE FOR ALL, EVERYONE IN, NO ONE OUT" bumper stickers . . .

stickers for telephone poles, etal --

[tkmorris]

38. See? There IS something all DU'ers can agree on

There are a few names in this thread that I can almost always count on to have an opposing opinion to my own, but on this we agree.

I guess you're right Stinky, we all know the score when it comes to health care.

[Kaleva]

42. A plan acceptable to the insurance industry is unacceptable

[BigBearJohn]

45. THAT is the ultimate statement. (see above)

[kath]

68. Ain't THAT the truth!

[Enthusiast]

71. That's another unsaid truth, Kaleva.

Yet the politicians are cavorting with the insurance industry.

[gtar100]

44. "We just don't have the votes"

Nope. It's because we've got a bunch of assholes in Congress and the Senate who put on a good show for the people every two, four or six years.

[The Wizard]

47. nor should they get the votes

if they fail to pass meaningful reform. It's time to put that insurance money back in the consumers' pocket to fire up the economy and get people back working for a living wage.
After health care gets a fix defense spending has to be cut, and Americans have to start making things people want instead of the tools to wipe out the human race.
We spend more than the rest of the world combined on defense, and 19 guys with box cutters brought us to our knees.
Be it health care or defense, we're getting robbed.

[erehwon2]

46. Stinky's right, and so is defendandprotect

The HCR issue is getting swiftboated like a motherfucker, and the Dems better hurry up and get on message. MEDICARE FOR ALL. NO ONE GETS LEFT BEHIND.

The idiots getting all the press for being loud and stupid are rabidly opposing their own interest. Without real reform, 18000 Americans will continue to fucking die for lack of money every year, and from the looks of the anti-HCR fanatics, more than a few will be among their ranks. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

I'm a US American living in a country with single payer, and it is right on so many levels. I have a pretty good point of reference I wish I could share with the mouth breathers, but they wouldn't listen, they'd just tell me to shut up and go to France (OK, I will).

My family had a good chance to move to the States. Really good job offer, relocation package, etc. But we have 3 kids and I just turned 50, when the body tends to start going haywire, and my wife will occasionally need looking after. So hey guess what. The fucked up dysfunctional, overpriced health care in the US was the deal breaker and we turned it down. With real HCR, we might have taken the offer.

College tuition and the debt culture were other factors, but those are rants for another day.

So Dems, get off your sorry asses and sound off like you got a pair, be it ovaries or balls. We need more Anthony Weiners, and to hell with the Grassleys of this world. Say it loud, say it proud: MEDICARE FOR ALL. NO ONE GETS LEFT BEHIND. WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME FUCKING BOAT.

Stinky and defendandprotect have nailed it, and this thread needs to stay up on top of the pile until there's real reform.

[Skidmore]

50. So, Stinky, if they don't act on our behalf, then do they know that

there will be consequences for it? Do they take us seriously.

[shireen]

79. exactly.

we will take note of everyone who voted against our best interests. they will be targets for replacement by more progressive candidates in the next few elections.

do not mess with progressives!

[Highway61]

51. A BIG

K & R!

[Paper Roses]

52. Exactly!

[RoccoR5955]

54. K & R... You hit the nail on the head!

WE THE PEOPLE
NOT
THEM THE CORPORATIONS!

[Vinca]

55. Exactly. Anything less than single payer is a political solution to the problem.

[seafan]

56. Mr. President, we want Medicare For All.

Another great thread on this topic

[OwnedByFerrets]

57. Yes, but it doesnt help their corporate masters.

[KelleyKramer]

58. There are un-known knowns...

And things we know we don't know.

And also, things we know we know.

And yes, they all know that we know.

And people do loot. Its just a fact of life.

If you don't have healthcare, then you just are not a good American.

Everyone in the US has to contribute to the corporate jet of the CEO of Unitedhealth Corp.

If you don't then you are nothing more than a communist/capitalist!

Water is dry, don't you know that?

That is all.

Kelley

[Enthusiast]

59. Yup, right on, Stinky. Rec.

Too bad you have to state the obvious but there it is.

[pleah]

61. K&R

[DrZeeLit]

63. to answer, a line from "Lion in Winter" -- we're a very KNOWLEDGEABLE family

it's a great scene...that whole "know" repetition

[smoogatz]

70. My favorite:

Eleanor: "Of course he has a knife, he always has a knife, we all have knives! It's 1183 and we're barbarians!"

[DrZeeLit]

113. You made me laugh. My students always liked: "if John was on fire nobody would piss to put it out"t

Your line works rather well for this current fight, too.
We've all got our knives.
And barbarians?
Just look at those town hall meetings.
It IS 1183 all over again.

[2Design]

67. need more time - lets see Ted Kennedy gave this speech umpteen years ago

Bill Clinton addressed the joint congress umpteen years ago - they just like the money

[smoogatz]

72. WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA!?!?!@?!!!!

Commie. Stop tryong to force your O'Hitlerbama healthcare down my throught!!!111! What do you think this is--YURP?

[suffragette]

77. + 1,000,000

K&R

[tridim]

78. Do you really think the private insurance companies will compete with a public option

or a public option trigger?

I don't.

[dem mba]

84. I do

because the public option would never cover new and experimental (read: very expensive) drugs, treatments or procedures. I doubt every person or family would be best served by the public option either.

Public schools are good, but private schools are still considered to be superior, by and large. The post office is good, but I'd trust FedEx or DHL (are they still around?) to get a package somewhere overnight. I think public and private insurance can co-exist, to the benefit of consumers and the medical community.

[tridim]

85. So I take you believe the Insurance company CEO's will take a 90% pay cut in order to compete?

Not a chance in hell that will happen.

Their profit margin is almost entirely based on NOT providing coverage to their customers.

[dem mba]

102. of course they won't take a 90% pay cut

that will be passed along to their work force and administrative costs.

True, the CEOs will not be able to make as much, I believe. Maybe only $500K-$2M or so. Poor guys.

[erehwon2]

87. They'll just have to adapt and compete with universal Medicare

IF it's implemented immediately. But they won't if there's a "trigger" clause. It's a scam to keep charging obscene premiums with shitty copay and deductible conditions on top of the shitty, reluctant service you get from them now. Then, when the 2-year "trigger" evaluation comes up, they'll figure out a new way to put it off. This has been going on since the fucking 1940s.

As I mentioned in a post above, I'm a US citizen living in a country that basically has Medicare for all. It is brilliant. I went in once for a heart scare, had to stay a couple of days for loads of tests and observation. Nice hospital, great professional staff, hell even the food wasn't bad. I had the room to myself for a couple of nights, then the loudest damn snorer on the planet moved in, and having seen my results (pretty benign), signed out on my own cognizance. No bills, no hassles, would have set me back thousands in the States even with an outrageously overpriced insurance.

I also have an add-on private insurance that pays private providers. The emergency rooms are a bit less crowded there, so I used those facilities when I very stupidly broke a bone. No deductible. No copay. Also chose them to have a couple of MRIs done, mostly because aof convenience, i.e. it's closer to where I live. They provided the service, got their money from the insurance, no copay or deductible, everybody's happy. I think they call this sort of add-on private insurance "Medigap" in Australia, I'd have to look it up. The only other advantage is private rooms (there's even a terrace!). In other words, they have to compete with a well-run public system and therefore have to provide a decent service at a fair price.

It could be something like that in the States, but only if that "trigger" nonsense is shot down pronto. It's bad medicine folks, it gives the "private" vampires 2 solid years of swiftboating and fudging numbers.

If Medicare for All goes through, it won't just be better in terms of physical and mental health, it would also mean that you'll see much more competetive labor costs and general peace of mind for millions who have to choose between heating oil or a visit to the doctor. What you won't see are 2/3 of all bankruptcies associated with healthcare costs.

This is a very big fucking deal. The game changer. They'd better not screw it up, and I mean the Dems. Who are in the fucking majority. Who have a very simple alternative called reconciliation. And if they have the damn gall to call this the Kennedy Bill with anything less than Medicare for All, they are not worthy to smell my dog's shit.

[kmac3]

81. Not a Mattter of Vision . . .

It all boils down to $$$$$ . . . These greedy excuses for public servants are out for one major effort . . . CAUSE OBAMA TO FAIL
and they're being paid well to do it by big pharma and insurance companies.

[Little Star]

82. K&R

[nradisic]

83. Check mate.

I could not have said it better myself. The GOP is shitting all over itself, because they know they have lost the fight...Things in DC work in circuitous ways and "Obama is playin a 3 level game of chess, while most others still think it is a game of checkers"...

[flyarm]

86. Watch out stinky...first they call you a racist..then they throw the H guy at ya!!

I kid you not..

for some of us that post truth around here..we have been called all sorts of names..one is racist...without them having the least knowledge of who you are..

I was called a racist many times here..even though I am married to a dual minority, as is my son.

Now yesterday i had this thrown at me..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6445106&mesg_id=6448113


so first we have race baiting..now Hitler baiting???????? I don't even know what to call it..wtf?????? I don't even know how to respond to something so dispicable..but I tried.

I feel like it is 2000-2001 and I am dealing with Bushbots all over again!!

I am truely sorry some people live in an alternative world that they don't see suffering all around..and that some think taking a paycheck..or not.. to slime out propaganda at a dem board is how they get their jollies..

But jusy like the Bush years..it took some a short time to figure out he was not workinjg for the people..it took even longer for others to figure it out..and some never figured it out.
But the majority of people did figure it out..eventually..

It will take less time this time ..because so many get the conditioning going on..and many many see the propaganda for what it is.."they can't be fooled again"..to coin a pathetic phrase.

I see now the majority here get what is going on..they have not been fooled..the propagandists do all they can to try to intimidate.. but it is not working..so they are getting frustrated and their pom poms are wearing thin..

Most of us came to Du because we believe in truth..and we want the truth..the good, the bad and the ugly of it.

Most of us have strong Principles and values..they don't ebb and flow with one or two candidates..they are our true principles..they are not for sale!

Thanks Stinky for always dealing in the truth!! And standing on strong principles.

[Echo In Light]

90. "Goddamn LIBERALS!" Rec 187

[GreenEyedLefty]

91. I've started challenging "conservatives" Anthony Weiner-style...

by asking them what insurance companies are bringing to the table.

<crickets>

Yep.

[fascisthunter]

92. Yes Sir... I.Like.It

[Better Believe It]

94. Stinky knows! That clown ain't buying the bull shit!

[femrap]

95. Or blind...but then you would

have that 'socialized health care,' right?

The Blind know.

[kestrel91316]

97. What Stinky said. +1

[jus_the_facts]

99. Just keep wishing in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. n/t

[Norrin Radd]

100. True.

[JDPriestly]

101. The politics of intimidation are to blame for the high cost of health care.

That's criminal. The entire senate should be sent to the office and told to wait there until their mothers come and get them. Sounds silly. But the senators are acting like children fighting for a place in line for free ice cream. They have completely forgotten that they were supposed to just go to the store, buy milk for the baby and then go home. It's disgusting.

Who is speaking for the many people who have put off going to the doctor until it was too late because they had to wait until they paid other bills before they could add the cost of a co-pay for a hospital visit to their budgets? Single payer is the only way to make sure people get all the preventive care they need.

[susanr516]

103. Well said, Stinky. nt

[MrMickeysMom]

104. DejaVu, Stinky-time!

Hey, weren't we voicing our opinion and hammering out this stuff with congress before?

Of course, we were. We still are. They know we were, and they know we are...

But they still don't want to "GO THERE" with US.

[ezdidit]

105. No! I say again, loudly, NO!

If single payer Medicare-For-All were enacted tomorrow, it would cause traumatic and grievous harm to a system that works poorly now. The snafus and f^^k-ups would likely become a Republican cause celebre, and any mortalities would serve as their Sarkisyan object lesson for Democratic health reformers who passed such legislation. Insurance companies employ a huge workforce to accomplish their goals, and this group of workers would be suddenly and traumatically erased from the employment rolls when they are most needed to staff government billing and coding positions.

There is another way.

Through force of for-profit greed alone, health insurance companies have exposed and exploited each and every loophole in Medicare and Medicaid. Driven by market forces, Wall Street tactics and death-by-spreadsheet cost-benefit analyses, these heinous organizations have extracted profit from our government by creating efficiencies among organized groups of practitioners in orthopedics, neurology, cancer treatment, cardiac care, pediatrics, imaging services and virtually every other specialty. Cancer, transplantation and cardiac hospitals have been created through a drive for profit where our medical delivery system was once ruled by fee-for-service one-man proprietors who were 'privileged' to treat patients at hospitals. For-profit has forced efficiencies that are now envied.

However, ethics has been utterly compromised by a system that uses terms like "medical loss ratios" to justify the death of up to 18,000 people per year - and mortality is climbing much, much higher as over three million people have lost their medical insurance since January alone. Over 11,00 have died since then!! It is outrageous and unsupportable!!

In order to preserve the organizations with the staff and human intelligence to keep health care financing running efficiently, insurance companies should be restructured as non-profit organizations. This would immediately and decisively shift their ethics from enhancing shareholder value to enhancing STAKEholder value, preserving all human life instead of preserving profit by killing people.

Think of it: Free from the need to justify their positions by convening DEATH PANELS at hospitals (to counsel next-of-kin on cost of care after 30-day intensive care limits are about to be reached), insurance clerks could now draw on their knowledge of facilities, therapies and treatment protocols already in place for long-term care, for cancer care, for cardiac care, and they could smoothly transition patients to get the care they need! Rank and file human abilities and actuarial intelligence is priceless!

It must not be junked. I would suggest that the robberbaron CEO's and their Wall Street banksters can look for new jobs elsewhere, however. And that too is a group that will be ill-suited to the new ethics of a moral non-profit system.

Think of the efficiencies! Think of the savings! Think of the success of progressive politics if Democrats could actually craft a system that works from day one by enhancing the system that is already in place, extracting a boondoggle of savings only from the wealthiest investors who won't even be troubled by it!

Non-profit restructuring is the only way to seamlessly extract all the profit from the for-profit entities going forward with the least disruption.

In fact, insurance companies are duty-bound to have this plan in place to counter single-payer if, by some miracle, by some freak of nature, it passes. Whereas Medicare/Medicaid transaction costs are estimated as low as 3%, non-profit corporations could reduce this cost to zero, or less than zero! Their 30% profit margins, over 750 billion dollars, would be devoted from day one to patient care!

[Vinnie From Indy]

106. You tell 'em Stinky

You are correct!

[Bonobo]

107. What a great post.

But what do we do about THAT?

[erehwon2]

112. It's one of the best yet

Succint, lucid and 100% on target.

Which is why it needs to be back on the top of GD for a while, so consider this a kick (I already recommended and posted on the thread twice).

The Dems better get their shit together pronto, stay on a message we all can understand such as MEDICARE FOR ALL, and use the reconciliation option on the vote asap. They're the majority, for fuck's sake, and can get this through on a simple majority vote if the have the guts.

[truedelphi]

108. You got it. The collusion between all the Big Shot Players

From the White House on down is obvious.

When you are made the quarterback, you f__king run with the ball. You DO NOT, I repeat,
DO NOT!! stop to ask the opposite team which way the damn goalpost is.

Obama, you have really turned my admiration into disgust.

We handed you the ball with 62% of the vote, and with 76% of us, even my RW co workers, wanting reform. Real reform. Then you pretend it is not possible.

Well it may not be possible to vote for you again.

[lumberjack_jeff]

109. My favorite euphemism is "politically possible"

Most people in this country would be fine with single payer. Most of the money would not.

Money wins.

[FiveGoodMen]

110. But our President DOESN'T know it!

(or doesn't care)

[deaniac21]

111. Money talks, bullshit walks.

[erehwon2]

114. This thread does not deserve to fade away

Single-payer should have been the first bargaining position for HCR from the git-go. Gearing it down to a public option is a damn good fallback position, but by no means should the bidding go below that. If we end up seeing the words "trigger" or "Co-op" on the table, we are truly fucked.

If the so-called "private", anti-trust immune insurers want to compete with a public option, they'll just have to come up with a few better ideas than ripping people off and giving next to nothing in return.

Stinky's got it right, and in this very thread there's a stern reminder from several posters that the Dems better wake the fuck up and get a clear message together. MEDICARE FOR ALL, for example. It's simple, direct and, in contrast to the death panel and kill grandma bullshit, pretty accurate. Wouldn't it be nice to pay less and get more? That's the public option.

Reconciliation rules now. 50-50 plus Biden in the Senate if need be, 220 in the House. This is what we voted for. They better not fuck it up.