Can I actually say that I am pro-abortion?

[Taverner]

As in, if someone needs an abortion, they should get one?

If someone has any doubts about having a kid, they should get rid of it?

If they cannot financially provide for a kid, they should have an abortion?

If the kid has defects, and will live life in extreme pain, they should abort that kid?

Call me pro-abortion because I am completely for the procedure

It's a life saver

[noiretextatique]

1. yes...and i will join you

i am totally pro-abortion too.

[ensho]

82. ditto

nt

[virgogal]

2. Of course you can.

[bunkerbuster1]

3. You can. I'm not sure it's real helpful...

I say this as someone who used to say it, myself, mostly to be annoying.

I happen to agree that it's absolutely the right thing to do in some instances. However, obviously, it's better if it can be avoided altogether. (which, of course, isn't always possible.)

[LeftyMom]

4. Of course. I'm pro-abortion like I'm pro pap smear.

It's a legal medical procedure. If you and your doctor talk and decide it's in your best interest, do it and don't let anybody second guess that.

[Xenotime]

5. Yes. We have exercised our right to choose several times in the past.

We are very proud to be pro-abortion.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. Of course...and I stand with you...

[robcon]

7. That's a stupid position, IMO.

Your support points are disgusting to me.

I support choice, but I am not pro-abortion.

[musette_sf]

12. - 1K

your disgust over a legal medical procedure that WOMEN sometimes need, disgusts me.

[cherokeeprogressive]

24. +(1k+1)

[musette_sf]

39. thanks

:toast:

to a world where women's health care procedures are just that - HEALTH CARE PROCEDURES - without forcing guilt, struggle, or shame upon women!

[donheld]

55. -1

[musette_sf]

92. easy for you to say

since you have no skin in the game

[paulsby]

41. just because it is a legal medical procudure...

you can keep repeating that mantra like... "legal medical procedure legal medical procedure" doesn't mean that there is no moral component whatsoever or that it shouldn't be a difficult decision.

abortion is the termination of a life. a dependant life. a life that is (depending on trimester) largely undeveloped, etc. but it should not be viewed the same as, for example, removing a wart, which is also a "legal medical procedure"

but hey, at least you are honest about your position. i can respect that. i am pro-choice. i will never concede that abortion is merely a medical procedure between a woman and her doctor, because the reality is it is a medical procedure that affects a third party- the fetus.

first trimester? as far as i am concerned, abort away on demand. after that, it becomes a bit trickier imo.

it is true women sometimes NEED an abortion. many other times, women CHOOSE an abortion, and i am 100% supportive of their right to do so, but it is hardly just any old medical procedure.

[musette_sf]

43. my problem is that a LEGAL MEDICAL PROCEDURE

is demonized and used to induce blame and shame upon women

who are just seeking to have a

LEGAL MEDICAL PROCEDURE

performed.

in my opinion, ADOPTION is the so-called "option" that is mentally, spiritually, and emotionally harmful to women.

not abortion.

[paulsby]

47. hmmm

first of all invidivuals vary.

i totally disagree with your assessment of adoption.

but again, just because it is a legal medical procedure doesn't say much. heck, with a different scotus it could be an illegal medical procedure. that says little (imo) about its morality etc.

the reason why i distinguish this medical procedure from others is that unlike most others, it affects ANOTher - life, the life of the fetus. i just don't think the fetus (especially in the first term) has a "right" to live whereas the woman has the authority to abort.

i have respect for those who are anti-choice (in most cases), because i know many firsthand who are sincere in their belief, and have no animus towards women . they just weigh the fetus/woman thang differently than i (and the law) does.

i'm curious about why you are so negative on adoption, though

[musette_sf]

101. because i believe that adoption is far more harmful to most women

physically, spiritually, and emotionally, than abortion ever SHOULD be.

i am beginning to think that the ONLY reason abortion is so demonized, is because adoption in comparison then "seems" to be the "better" option.

when abortion is socially disapproved, the social approval of adoption leads many women to make a decision that will, ultimately, be more painful in all ways than an abortion ever SHOULD have been.

[REP]

106. Research is on your side - adoption harms women

J Obstet Gynecol Neonatal Nurs. 1999 Jul-Aug;28(4):395-400.
Related Articles, Links

Postadoptive reactions of the relinquishing mother: a review.

Askren HA, Bloom KC.

Deer Valley OB/GYN, Mesa, AZ, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To review the literature addressing the process of relinquishment as it relates to the birth mother. DATA SOURCES: Computerized searches in CINAHL; Article 1 st, PsycFIRST, and SocioAbs databases, using the keywords adoption and relinquishment; and ancestral bibliographies. STUDY SELECTION: Articles from indexed journals in the English language relevant to the keywords were evaluated. No studies were located before 1978. Studies that sampled only an adolescent population were excluded. Twelve studies met the inclusion criteria and were included in the analysis. DATA EXTRACTION: Data were extracted and information was organized under the following headings: grief reaction, long-term effects, efforts to resolve, and influences on the relinquishment experience. DATA SYNTHESIS: A grief reaction unique to the relinquishing mother was identified. Although this reaction consists of features characteristic of the normal grief reaction, these features persist and often lead to chronic, unresolved grief. CONCLUSIONS: The relinquishing mother is at risk for long-term physical, psychologic, and social repercussions. Although interventions have been proposed, little is known about their effectiveness in preventing or alleviating these repercussions.

Med J Aust. 1986 Feb 3;144(3):117-9.
Related Articles, Links

Psychological disability in women who relinquish a baby for adoption.

Condon JT.

During 1986, approximately 2000 women in Australia are likely to relinquish a baby for adoption. A study is presented of 20 relinquishing mothers that demonstrates a very high incidence of pathological grief reactions which have failed to resolve although many years have elapsed since the relinquishment. This group had abnormally high scores for depression and psychosomatic symptoms on the Middlesex Hospital questionnaire. Factors that militate against the resolution of grief after relinquishment are discussed. Guidelines for the medical profession that are aimed at preventing psychological disability in relinquishing mothers are outlined.

Community Health Stud. 1990;14(2):180-9.
Related Articles, Links

Erratum in:
• Community Health Stud 1990;14(3):314.

Social factors associated with the decision to relinquish a baby for adoption.

Najman JM, Morrison J, Keeping JD, Andersen MJ, Williams GM.

Department of Social and Preventive Medicine, University of Queensland.

Little is known about the characteristics, social circumstances and mental health of women who give a child up for adoption. This paper reports data from a longitudinal study of 8556 women interviewed initially at their first obstetrical visit. In total, 7668 proceeded to give birth to a live singleton baby, of which 64 then relinquished the baby for adoption. Relinquishing mothers were predominantly 18 years of age or younger, in the lowest family income group, single, having an unplanned and/or unwanted baby and reported that they were not living with a partner. These women were somewhat more likely to manifest symptoms of anxiety and depression both prior, and subsequent to, the adoption, but the majority of relinquishing mothers were of 'normal' mental health. The decision to relinquish a baby appears to be a consequence of an unwanted pregnancy experienced by an economically deprived single mother rather than the result of emotional or psychological/psychiatric considerations. These findings document a particular dimension of the impact of poverty on health.

[lapislzi]

66. "Should" is problematic

It's not always a difficult decision. Sometimes it's a no-brainer. You can say "should" all you want, but there are instances in which the decision may be made in a cavalier manner. I personally think that's a smallish minority, but in any case, it's none of *my* business how the decision gets made, or whether or not there's a moral component to it. It's not a prerequisite.

[CTyankee]

67. When I hear statements like yours, I always look for an acknowledgment that women are moral

agents and that they have made their decision to terminate with all of the moral reasoning that men possess. When I hear statements like "it should not be viewed the same as removal of a wart" I wonder what prompts such a response. Does anyone say it SHOULD be viewed in such fashion? There is an implication that women view abortion in a trivial manner. But that to me trivializes women as not fully capable of moral choice.

I am interested in knowing why you use such an analogy in the first place.

[paulsby]

90. it;s quite simple

truth and accuracy matter more than ideology

that's why i make such a distinction

fwiw, i am FAR more libertarian in regards to what women (and men) should be allowed to do with their bodies, free from govt. intrusion than the law or more liberal democrats. i believe in decriminalization of drugs, legalization of prostitution,etc.

all are decisions one should be able to make with one's own body.

but fetus' are, as a matter of scientific accuracy, a unique ,yet dependant organism in a woman's body. that is an important distinction and i make that distinction because i care more about truth and accuracy and science than i do about rah rah ideology where the truth takes a backseat to a cause.

i believe in a right to abort, because i believe the "right" of a fetus to continue to survive is inferior to the right of a woman to abort it. it's really that simple. that is across the board true (for me) in the 1st trimester, and true based on a # of factors (which is consistent largely with roe v wade) in later trimesters

and fwiw, yes some people DO think it should be viewd in such fashion, as you ask. read the frigging post(s) i was responding to.

[musette_sf]

93. "i am FAR more libertarian"

well, that explains a lot.

sex work good, abortion bad. okay.

[paulsby]

96. nice lie. try truth next time. it tastes better

cause that's not what i said

i didn't say sex work was good or bad. i said govt. should not have the authority to PROHIBIT it.

similarly, i don't think pot smoking is good. i just don't think govt. should have the authority ot prohibit it (assuming one is an adult)

i didn't say abortion was good or bad. i said govt. should not have the authority to prohibit it (assuming 1st trimester) and limited ability to prohibit it in 2nd and 3rd trimesters

this is the fallacy of people like you. you can't grok that there is a difference between policy and morality.

saying govt. should not have the authority to prohibit behavior X is NOT the same thing as saying that behavior X is morally good or bad in any particular instance.

AGAIN, move away from your religious arguments and embrace logic.

hth
ideologues like you cannot grok that govt isn;'t in the business to ban all the "bad stuff" and allow all the "good stuff". liberty is inconsistent with that concept.

liberty also recognizes that especially with self regarding acts (like drug use) govt. authority should be ESPECIALLY limited, because liberty means people should have the liberty to make BAD decisions too. or at least decisions WE consider bad.

i personally have no desire to ever smoke mj. i think it's lame, to put it mildly. that's irrelevant to the fact that i think govt, needs to stay the fuck out of an individuals decision to do same.

it's really sad to me the way so many ideologues like you need govt. to affirm your values.

[musette_sf]

100. been there, heard that, over and over and over again, i live with a libertarian,

same old same old.

the same old rant always ends the same way.

i in no way need "govt. to affirm (my) values", neither am i "religious" in any manner, be it associative or secular.

but thanks for the BS projection.

i believe abortions are far healthier for women than sex work is.

TTFN.

[paulsby]

103. but again, that's irrelevant

the issue isn't which is healthier.

the govt is not in business to be our fucking mommy/daddy.

the issue is what should govt. have authority to prohibit?

THAT is the question.

i never said sex work is healthy for women or men.

i don;t think eating to the point of obesity is healthy, for instance. i think it's decidedly unhealthy. i also think it's often disgusting

it doesn't follow that i want to cede the power to govt. to MAKE obese people eat less.

that's THEIR choice. even if they make stupid, self destructive choices.

i am not a libertarian, in that i support minimum wage, single payer health care, etc.

but i definitely have libertarian values. it saves me from the statist ninnies on the left and right who want to regulate my life

[CTyankee]

99. Sorry, I missed the "wart" reference among the posts on this thread. nt

[Hepburn]

105. So a vasectomy is a termination of potential life....

...what the fuck is your problem?

The ONLY being with any legal rights who is involved in a abortion is the pregnant female. A fetus has -0- rights and that is how it is and should remain. You appear to equate the rights of a fetus as equal to or greater than the woman.

That is sick...very sick...that you have NO respect for the life in being and a dab of tissue is held in an equal position.

JMHO

[uppityperson]

63. The phrasing of OP is wrong, "should" implies lack of choice

Telling someone they "should" have an abortion is disgusting to me, as bad as telling them they "should not". Choice is needed, not limitations or "shoulds".

[Hepburn]

104. +1...n/t

[jhrobbins]

36. I am in 100% agreement with your position. To be pro-abortion strikes

me as a bit extreme. Regardless of a religious position, I still struggle with the point at which a cluster of cells becomes a human being. I know this is an unpopular position here in DU, but I still struggle with this. I am in no way anti-abortion, I'm just not pro-abortion - I'm pro choice and I feel very sorry for the women that have to struggle to make this difficult decision (at least I hope they struggle with it. Hell, I had a tough time spaying my cat that was carrying a litter of kittens.

[musette_sf]

38. here is why i am pro abortion

it is a MEDICAL PROCEDURE.

i believe it is wrong to demonize a MEDICAL PROCEDURE.

in a perfect world, every sentient person, male and female, would use easily available, non-demonized birth control, until such time as that person was ready to bring a WANTED CHILD into the world.

but

because nut jobs oppose and demonize birth control, comprehensive sex education, and sexually free women,

and

because some insurance companies are happy to cover boner pills, but will not cover birth control

we are a long way away from that perfect world.

and

because NO FORM OF BIRTH CONTROL IS 100% EFFECTIVE

abortion MUST remain legal and safe. and it would be a WONDERFUL thing if this LEGAL MEDICAL PROCEDURE was NOT demonized.

women DO NOT NEED TO FEEL GUILT, and STRUGGLE (as you state you WISH women would do! you WANT women to "struggle" with it!) with the decision.

the demonization of birth control, sex ed, sexually free women, and abortion MUST stop, if women are to get anywhere near reaching equality in this world.

[jhrobbins]

42. I agree that abortion should remain legal and safe; I don't think, as you apparently do

that abortion should be some cavalier decision. And I do think a certain amount of a struggle with the decision would make it appear that the woman was considering more than having a wart removed. And the argument that because insurance won't cover 'birth control' is a specious one - birth control is available at very little or NO cost to those responsible men and women that seek it out. I also believe that the nut jobs you refer to on the right that oppose abortion in any case and stalk and intimidate abortion providers and clients are matched by the extreme left that think that abortion is as consequential as a teeth cleaning. At some point, it must be acknowledged (and I am not sure what the point is, but I know there is one) that those clusters of cells have become a human being.
Oh, and I think we should euthanize disabled and old people, because I believe it is wrong to 'demonize' a medical procedure.

[musette_sf]

44. unbelievable

supposedly you're an LGBT supporter, from your avatar.

but your total lack of empathy with women negates your Human Rights Campaign persona.

as you said before, you WANT women to struggle with choice. you WANT it to be horrible for them.

and your insane non sequitur at the end is the piece de resistance.

:puke:

[jhrobbins]

102. No, I'm not an LGBT supporter - I am a card carrying member.(which on occasion makes me a supporter

First, you have no idea about my empathy or supposed lack of it toward women based on a single paragraph. Second, perhaps struggle was a wrong choice of words, but not by much. If I understand your position, abortion should be no more consequential than electing to have some routine medical procedure and abortion is far from routine. I assume that you must know women that have dealt with this decision - so have I and their 'struggle' with the decision was horrible for them and in many of the cases had long term ramifications. Maybe my friends are more 'sentimental' than the cases I assume you know, but it was difficult for them and remains a seminal event for them. And I never want this decision to be HORRIBLE for anyone - the entire situation of an unwanted pregnancy is difficult enough. However, I would like for the decision to be one of thoughtful consideration - this is, in fact, what abortion providers ask for as well.
I was simply responding to your assertion that abortion be no more than an inconvenience to be 'handled'.
And my question about the 'cluster of cells' was a sincere one - at what point does this cluster become a human being? Based on a partial birth abortion, the abortion provider would be performing a medical procedure prior to birth; but committing a homicide only minutes afterward if the 'cluster' had been born. Why do these questions, made in good faith, elicit such a hostile and personal reply. Can we not have this discussion because obviously there are several sides to this - even though you seem to be convinced that your side is the only option and your approach is to attack rather than discuss.
Finally, the 'insane non sequitur' was a review of your own premise that apparently any 'medical procedure' is inviolate. (also, I think you may have misunderstood the non sequitur thing, because given your posit about 'any medical procedure' my 'piece de resistance' does, in fact, follow the original premise.

[Morning Dew]

83. speaking of nut job attitudes

I also believe that the nut jobs you refer to on the right that oppose abortion in any case and stalk and intimidate abortion providers and clients are matched by the extreme left that think that abortion is as consequential as a teeth cleaning.

This should stand out as total nut-jobbery.

Along with "cavalier decision" and "wart removal" - not to mention "responsible" men and women.

Classic.

So many times I read accounts of pro choice advocates stalking and intimidating women into having abortions... that's just such a common thing.

[noiretextatique]

85. you can't possibly be a woman

at least i hope you aren't. what business is it of yours if the decision is cavalier or angst-filled? answer: none.

[onehandle]

8. Of course. And someone could also say they were anti-abortion.

As in, a person can be personally anti-abortion, but for the procedure being legal for others.

But who you say these things to...

[MH1]

9. Yes, and I agree - in as much as I am "pro" any necessary medical procedure

I do think there are cases where sane doctors will probably think that abortion is the BEST option. That is for a doctor to say, but me agreeing that there may be cases like that, makes me not only "pro-abortion" but downright "evil" to some people, I am sure. But that's fine with me.

[datasuspect]

10. i guess if you are trying to be "provocative" on an internet discussion forum

then absolutely!

is it okay if I say I am the Batman?

[musette_sf]

11. k&r

[MichiganVote]

13. I can, I do and I will continue to do so.

[Canuckistanian]

14. The ultimate goal is to make abortions RARE

But to take that final step and make it ILLEGAL is WRONG.

There will always be cases where abortions will be inevitable in a healthy society.

Everyone should work toward a society where, if absolutely needed, an abortion should be a safe and stigma free option.

[stray cat]

19. I think the poster would disagree with you - in other words its a good thing to do more of

[Taverner]

20. No - what I am saying is if you have to do it do it without hesitation

A fetus has the same nervous system as a tadpole

Not that I encourage killing tadpoles, but you get the idea

[BoneDaddy]

35. It is just in bad taste

Abortion is neither evil nor is it something that should be celebrated as inherntly good either. It is simply a necessity. An often upsetting, painful and trying necessity for many women. Abortion should not be the horrible judgemental experience that others try to put on it, but it should not also be something frivolous. Potential life has meaning, but I think a woman's choice supercede's that of the fetus. Do not cheapen the creation of life. That is why I am pro-choice and could never call myself pro abortion.

[Crunchy Frog]

50. Depends on the level of development.

My babies were essentially fetuses when they were born, being preemies. I can assure you that their nervous systems were considerably more developed than those of tadpoles though.

I think this sort of absolutist statement does not add any credibility to our position.

[spoony]

52. Why?

Shouldn't someone be encouraged to think about anything they do? Including medical procedures? Particularly ones that affect if they're going to be parents? Your position is one of tremendous carelessness.

[Individualist]

15. K&R

I'm pro-abortion.

[Hippo_Tron]

16. You might consider re-phrasing some of those

For example, if the mother thinks that adoption is a better choice, I would imagine that you would not encourage her to get an abortion. If, however, she felt abortion was a better choice you would certainly have no problem with that as well. And should the mother decide that the defects are too severe for the child to live a good life then you would support her decision, just as you would be okay with her deciding to bring a child with those disabilities into the word.

[musette_sf]

40. i am beginning to believe that adoption should NOT be encouraged

i now think that adoption hurts the woman far, far, far more than any abortion ever could.

physically, emotionally and spiritually.

www.thenation.com/doc/20090914/joyce

[Hippo_Tron]

57. I'm sure there are situations where adoption is a good thing

But I agree that it's not just as simple as "you should give the baby up for adoption in all circumstances".

[etherealtruth]

17. I am pro-choice

... as I reach the end of my reproductive years I realize the choice is for someone other than me.

[stray cat]

18. If you prefer abortion to any other options I guess you are

why have a child if the economy is bad - abort it and save money.

[Taverner]

21. If honestly, you think that would make you a bad parent - then, yes!

[madokie]

22. Beings as how I'm not one to need the procedure

I guess you could call me pro-abortion also, I sure think that's a decision for a female to make for herself. Whatever that makes me that's what I am

[Taverner]

23. Let me put it this way - ever see those bumperstickers that say "It's a child, not a choice"

My answer is

It is a child, and your choice.

As in, don't choose to have a kid for the wrong reasons

And there are many

[Schema Thing]

25. meh, it's not even a child

it's a frickin lump of cells that has the potential to form into a child.


And NO ONE loses any sleep when a lump of cells spontaneously aborts; hell, 90% of the time, no one even knows it happened. So why all the pearl clutching about an intended abortion? Pun intended;)

[mamaleah]

28. You obviously have no clue how many women, even those who have had an abortion feel.

The right tries to paint abortion as the "easy" choice.

Many women DO struggle with the though of abortion even when they choose to have one. Do you think women go into the office to have an abortion giggling and then go shoe shopping after followed by cosmos at the club later that evening? No. It's not an easy choice for anyone.

Writing a fetus off as a lump of cells that no one cares about helps the right wing. Congrats.

[valerief]

30. I know from experience it is that easy for some women. Pregnancy is a nuisance. nt

[mamaleah]

31. And for many it is not easy. No one speaks for all women. But many try to, on both sides. nt

[valerief]

34. Obviously it's different for all women. All women do not struggle with deciding on abortion. Some do

[Donald Ian Rankin]

27. I would tend to disagree: if it's a child, it isn't a choice.

A foetus is not a child.

Aborting a foetus is a valid choice.

Killing a child is not a valid choice.

I would say that the whole abortion debate boils down to (or, at any rate, should boil down to), the single question "is a foetus a person?". I would say that if the answer were "yes" then abortion should be illegal in most circumstances, but since it is "no" I am pro-choice.

[Crunchy Frog]

I think that I probably chose to have my kids for the wrong reasons.

c'est la vie. Too late to do anything about it now, so I just have to make the best of things. :)

[Donald Ian Rankin]

26. Pro-abortion is not a synonym for pro-choice, but it's a valid subset of it.

I am both pro-choice and pro-abortion - I support the right to abortion, and in many cases I would advise the exercise of that right.

Many religious liberals are pro-choice but not pro-abortion - they think abortion is immoral or unwise, but should be legal even so. That's essentially how I feel about e.g. prostitution or drug use.

Most conservatives are neither pro-choice nor pro-abortion - they think it should be banned.

Some eugenicists are pro-abortion but anti-choice. That's a relatively rare position, though - almost no-one nowadays supports forcing abortion on women.

[valerief]

29. We all used to say it in the seventies. And then the religious Reagan era descended on us. nt

[bridgit]

32. Oh sure...

As a teen I volunteered at Planned Parenthood and received their services myself and that was 27 years ago. Your eyes are able to be opened much wider, however, after you've held the hand of a girl your age and walked her through the process and the tears or past her unforgiving family you're just not able to state any value in education and/or prevention - so just cut that shit out and you'll do just fine :thumbsup:

[bluestateguy]

33. I once knew a libertarian Republican who called himself "pro-abortion"

Two reasons, he said:

1. Fewer babies being born to mothers who can't afford them, which means fewer people on welfare that his taxes would have to pay for (he was an anti-tax zealot).

2. If he got a girl pregnant, he would "order" her to get an abortion because he only wanted to be a father when he was good and ready.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

71. Apart from "request" instead of "order", I think that makes a lot of sense.

There are other concerns too, of course. But "fewer children being born to parents who won't do a good job of parenting" is an excellent reason to be both pro-choice and pro-abortion.

[CTyankee]

73. "order" her? What kind of Libertatarian is he?

Heh, a rhetorical question. Every Libertarian I have known has been an asshole. I'll put this guy on the list...

[bridgit]

107. I'm sure I've heard, "I respect women, I'm *pro-abortion*" between flights over airport cocktails...

No pun intended

[tavalon]

37. Yeah, except there's already a term that's more universally used - Pro Choice

You described it perfectly. The other side is anti-choice. And the other side doesn't give a damn about the fetus, so calling them pro-life is a lie. They are about control of womens' bodies and sexuality, nothing more or less.

[Naturyl]

45. I am not pro-abortion.

I am anti-abortion and pro-choice. It's quite possible. I believe abortions should be safe, legal, and rare.

[musette_sf]

46. another supporter of guilt and shame weighs in

:crazy:

[spoony]

51. Oh shut up

The poster said no such thing.

[Naturyl]

53. Thanks. And no, I didn't. (n/t)

[musette_sf]

94. see post 91. it was implicit.

[musette_sf]

91. no. i am never shutting up

about how important reproductive health care access and freedom, WITHOUT GUILT AND SHAME, is to the hope of women ever being equal in this world.

i think that people who say they are "pro-choice and anti-abortion" actively seek to continue the guilt and shame that they think women "should feel" over having an abortion.

the phrase "pro-choice and anti-abortion" inherently indicates the desire for women to feel guilt and shame for exercising their legal rights. i think it's dishonest, and that it perpetrates the demonization of women's reproductive health care procedures.

as i grow older and think that maybe i understand the ways of the world better, i have come to a position of being actively PRO ABORTION. i also have come to a position of being actively ANTI ADOPTION.

i believe that abortion, minus the unnecessary demonization, is a far better option as to long term mental and physical impact on the woman, than is adoption. i am willing to admit that there may be some scenarios in which adoption is appropriate, but i believe that the vast majority of women feel far more pain after adoption, than after abortion. were the demonization ended over abortion, far more women would choose it, and consequently live happier lives in the long run.

i'm always going to be an advocate for the living woman and HER mental and physical health.

[musette_sf]

48. you are an exceptional man

thank you

:loveya:

[Crunchy Frog]

49. I'm not pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice, but not pro-abortion.

If someone needs one they should absolutely be able to get it.

If someone has any doubts about having a kid? I recently had twins, and the pregnancy was planned and wanted, but you can bet your ass that I had doubts about it. I would guess that lots of people have doubts. The notion that anybody with doubts should have an abortion is insane.

If they cannot financially provide for a kid? What about doing like civilized societies do, and having a social safety net, and assistance to enable women to become able to provide for the kid?

I certainly support a woman's right to choose to abort a kid with defects, but many such kids nevertheless manage to live fulfilling and productive lives.

I would never, ever tell a woman that she should have an abortion in any of those situations. I would support her fully if that were truly her choice, but if it wasn't her choice I would do what I could to support her in keeping and raising the kid.

Yes, choice can be just as much about choosing to have a baby under less than optimal circumstances as about having an abortion. A social system than leaves a woman with no options other than abortion is an inherently coercive system that I oppose on principle.

[donheld]

54. I too am pro-abortion.

[handmade34]

56. I am pro-life for all who want to live

I am pro-abortion for all who want an abortion.
I am pro-choice.
I am pro death for all who choose to die.
I am in favor of dropping criminal charges for herbs.
I am in favor of helping each other to grow and be healthy.

I have had babies, I have had abortions, I have used herbs to abort, I have watched loved ones die and I love to watch us help each other through the good and bad.

You can be pro-abortion

[lillypaddle]

58. I like to think of myself

as being PRO-Choice, not pro-abortion. I am for the right to choose abortion.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

59. I guess. Knock yourself out. nt

[Festivito]

60. It seems more than a little daffy.

As in, if someone needs an abortion, they should get one? WITHOUT REGARD TO HOW THEY MAY FEEL LATER?

If someone has any doubts about having a kid, they should get rid of it? FOR MERE DOUBTS ANY PARENT MIGHT FEEL, DOUBTS THAT MIGHT CHANGE?

If they cannot financially provide for a kid, they should have an abortion? AND NOT EVEN CONSIDER ADOPTION?

If the kid has defects, and will live life in extreme pain, they should abort that kid? WITHOUT EVEN DOUBLE CHECKING?

Call me pro-abortion because I am completely for the procedure SEEMS SO.

You seem to be in a mode of promoting abortion and completely dismissive of the idea that a mother might think of the loss from time to time. Even women who have miscarriages think of that loss --a decisive act, I would think, even more so.

I think you mean well, but I think you need to think it a bit more.

[uppityperson]

61. Unless you rephrase, you are anti-choice

If you mean the woman should have the choice, then that is fine. If you mean the woman should have an abortion, then you are as narrow minded as those who say a woman should never have an abortion.

Clarify?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

68. I don't agree.

I am anti-voting-Conservative. That doesn't mean I don't passionately support people being allowed to choose to vote Conservative.

I think that there are many circumstances where a woman "should" - i.e. "would be wise to" - have an abortion. That doesn't mean that I ever support coercing women to have/not have abortions.

[uppityperson]

78. Having worked for a provider, I will do all I can to keep the option legal and safe

hygienic, legal abortions, accessible without parental/spousal notification, waiting periods or ultrasounds (or other such restrictions). However, I have not and will not tell someone they "should" or "should not" have an abortion.

[Stephanie]

62. You've made it very clear why you are here and what you are up to

Nice try, won't fly. Keep it up chump, I love pizza.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

76. really? tav has been year for years. i dont foresee a pizza because he is pro abortion

[reflection]

84. You're calling a ~30K poster

the equivalent of a HCPT and insinuating a pizza is coming? :eyes:

[Iris]

64. How about "pro-abortion rights" or "pro-reproductive rights"?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

70. A different axis, I think/

Pretty much everyone on DU is in favour of the right to abortion, and agrees that being opposed to the right to abortion is wicked.

However, some DUers believe that exercising that right is often a good idea, and some believe that it very seldom is. And many, including me, think that the alternative of those two positions is not a bad one, even if it's one we don't share.

Both the OP and their detractors in this thread are pro-abortion rights. But some are pro-abortion too, while some are not.

[lapislzi]

65. Ab-so-freakin-lutely.

Sometimes abortion is the BEST option for the woman, the fetus, the family.

Having an abortion was one of the smartest things I ever did...to fix one of the stupidest things I ever did. Zero sum game.

[slackmaster]

69. Of course you can say that

:hi:

[LeftinOH]

72. You may, but I prefer to be pro-birth control, pro sex ed, and pro-active;

Hillary Clinton's description of a "safe, legal -and rare" procedure is an appropriate one.

[omega minimo]

98. Yet you skipped pro choice. Why?

[reflection]

74. I'm anti-abortion and pro-choice.

The difference, of course, being that one label applies to me and the other applies to the way I think the laws should be constructed to protect women's rights. As long as the two don't overlap I see no problem with this.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

75. i am pro abortion too, sometimes its much kinder to end the fetus than to give a human

child a terrible life

[Taverner]

79. My point exactly

[GreenEyedLefty]

77. I think women should be able to have abortions for any reason under the sun.

As long as it's safe, legal and available, a woman's reasons for getting one don't matter one whit to me.

[L0oniX]

80. When it comes to repukes I am totally pro-abortion!

[redqueen]

81. Sure you can... but it's bad PR.

And if there's one thing we all should have learned by now, it's that PR is extremely extremely extremely important.

[ehrnst]

86. I am pro-consentual-abortion only. Likewise, I am pro-consentual-chilbirth only..

[Taverner]

87. Well, yeah, that goes without saying

[Shell Beau]

88. I wouldn't say pro-abortion. I think pro-choice is best because that

is what I care about most. The woman should have the choice. If she chooses to have it under any of those circumstances, it is still her choice even if I agree or not.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

95. Isn't the definition of "pro" to be proactive.....

....meaning to actively campaign or encourage everyone to do something, in this case, have an abortion?

Because going by the strict definition, THAT would be wrong.

[omega minimo]

97. And if you say you're Pro-Choice, you acknowledge that the decision/privacy is none of your business

unless and until it is.

That's how to be "completely for the procedure" and be completely FOR the reproductive health and privacy rights of women.