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AFGHANISTAN: Obama Is Leading the U.S. Into a Hellish Quagmire

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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 08:03 AM
Original message
AFGHANISTAN: Obama Is Leading the U.S. Into a Hellish Quagmire
Obama Is Leading the U.S. Into a Hellish Quagmire

By Mark Ames, AlterNet. Posted September 3, 2009.

Obama is doubling down in Afghanistan with more troops deployed now than the Soviets ever had, at a time when public support for it is sinking like a rock.


America now has more military personnel in Afghanistan than the Red Army had at the peak of the Soviet invasion and occupation of that country. According to a Congressional Research Service report, as of March of this year, the U.S. had 52,000 uniformed personnel and another 68,000 contractors in Afghanistan -- a number that has likely grown given the blank check President Obama has written for what's now being called "Obama's War."

That makes 120,000 American military personnel fighting in Afghanistan, a figure higher than the Soviet peak troop figure of 115,000 during their catastrophic 9-year war. Just this week, General McChrystal, whom Obama appointed to command American forces in Afghanistan, is talking ofsending tens of thousands more American troops. At the height of the Soviet occupation,Western intelligence experts estimated that the Soviets had 115,000 troops in Afghanistan -- but like America, the more troops and the longer the Soviets stayed, the more doomed their military mission became.

We're also heading into the same casualty trap as the Soviets did. This summer has been the deadliest in the eight-year war for American troops. While the number of uniformed Americans killed in combat in Afghanistan may seem comparatively low -- just over 800, most of those since 2007 -- the Soviets also suffered relatively light casualties. Between December 1979 and February 1989, just 13,000 Soviets were killed in Afghanistan, a seemingly paltry figure when you compare it to the 20 million Soviets killed in World War Two, and the millions upon millions who died in the Civil War and Stalin's Terror. Unlike America, Russians have a reputation for tolerating appalling casualty figures -- and yet the war in Afghanistan destroyed the Soviet Empire. Which only proves that crude number comparisons explain nothing at all in warfare today, particularly when that war is an occupation of an alien environment like Afghanistan.

Why hasn't anyone pointed out that America's troop commitment now exceeds the Red Army's? For some inexplicable reason the corporate media has decided to shuffle the figures and exclude the US military contractors from the total figure of US military personnel. It makes no logical sense -- we still count the Hessians among the British forces in the War of Independence. It's as if the only thing left that Americans are capable of is accounting fraud -- the only talent we perfected over the past decade was how to move all the bad numbers off the official books, as if it's become an instinctive reflex.

But just as those accounting tricks didn't change all those banks' and funds' insolvency, so the American media's troop-counting tricks, in which contractors are "off books," can't make the disaster in Afghanistan disappear. We're already more deeply invested in our Afghanistan war than the Russians were, and as we head into our ninth year -- the magic number for when the Soviets pulled out and their empire collapsed -- President Obama is dragging the country deeper into that disaster. (Moreover, if you add in all the NATO personnel -- useless as they are as a "fighting" force -- the number of Western troops already far exceeds the number deployed in the Soviet Union's "unwinnable" war.)

...

http://www.alternet.org/world/142388/obama_is_leading_the_u.s._into_a_hellish_quagmire/
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Balbus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. I disagree with your subject line.
"is leading" should be "has lead"
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. just curious what would you do about the taliban and al-Qaeda. not
attacking just asking. I see a lot of post about how terrible the pres is but I'm not seeing a lot of solutions to the problems. what would you do pull out all troops, what are the consequences for doing that.
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Balbus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. The same thing that we're doing about the...
Edited on Thu Sep-03-09 08:39 AM by Balbus
FPMR in Chile, ELN & FARC in Columbia, Al-Jihad & Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya in Egypt, Revolutionary Nuclei in Greece, FPM in Honduras, Hezbollah in Lebanon, Harakat ul-Ansar in Pakistan, etc. etc.

All terrorist organizations that have attacked U.S. citizens and/or interests across the globe.
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. SO FUCKING TRUE
I find it extremely interesting that human rights violations only bother the United States when we have interests to protect.
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samrock Donating Member (501 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. No THIS is different..
HERE ya had a a case of the group RUNNING the whole country.. allowing openly for them to form bases and camps to train peoples against us.. This was the base operation for the 9/11 attack.. we CAN NOT allow a country and its government to be openly attacking us with us only having like embargoes and sanctions.. Like THEY would do any good on Afghanistan... We have no choice but to stay the game UNTIL we are sure the local government can control its own country.. Now it should be not on only our shoulders.. the rest of the world has a stake in this as well and this should be a joint U.N. operation..
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. but I don't think any of those organizations are dedicated to the level
that al-qaede is. I haven't seen any reports that hezbollah was planning or carrying out attacks in britain.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Does Al Quaeda even exist anymore?
Or is it just a buzz word?
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. BLASPHEMER!1!!!! INFIDEL11!!!! n/t
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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. I prefer Bush led the U.S. Into a Hellish Quagmire and Obama...
is attempting to deal with it.
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Balbus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. The number of troops and the average number of U.S. deaths per months..
has more than doubled since O took office. This is Obama's baby now.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Why should Obama deal with bush's mess?
He has chosen to escalate the Afghanistan mess, while reduce our presence in Iraq.
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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. One of the many reasons I voted for Obama
Edited on Thu Sep-03-09 10:37 AM by subcomhd
is that he promised to draw down Bush's fiasco (Iraq) and go after the fuckers that killed 3,000 Americans (and others.) Fuck the Taliban and their Al Qaeda buddies. Especially as the father of a young girl, Iam proud that our soldiers and marines are taking it to the people who throw acid in the faces of schoolgirls - for going to school.

edited for:

Kicked and UNrec'd
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. hope you are willing to send your child to fight in the army then
and encourage her to go fight the Taliban as a soldier.
until you are willing to do that, stop wanting other peoples kids to go over there and fucking die

or you can enlist yourself.

in the meantime, afghan women are even worse off then when we first went in...and our own PUPPET KARZAI has passed sharia law to allow men to rape their wives

afghan women no better off
http://www.workers.org/2009/world/afghan_women_0430/
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
12. knr
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
14. Bush did that. Will President Obama keep us mired in it?
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. war profits are BIG business
lot of multinational corps. arent willing to give up their perks. and they own the politicians pretty much. They have been sucking the govt teat for a loooong time, its damned good money. why should they give it up now? record profits.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
16. Late kick, n/t
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
17. "the war in Afghanistan destroyed the Soviet Empire" - what a complete crock of shit.

Afghanistan and a bellicose Reagan provided a rally-round-the-flag effect within the Soviet Union. Anyone who knows anything about the Soviet Union claims the USSR would probably have fallen a decade earlier if the communists hadn't had these outside threats to keep their disastisfied populace preoccupied.


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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
18. It is no longer PC to be anti-war on DU because "our guys" are in charge of the klling. K&R
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robdogbucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. What I feel...
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 12:09 PM by robdogbucky
“…HERE ya had a a case of the group RUNNING the whole country.. allowing openly for them to form bases and camps to train peoples against us.. This was the base operation for the 9/11 attack.. we CAN NOT allow a country and its government to be openly attacking us with us only having like embargoes and sanctions.. Like THEY would do any good on Afghanistan... We have no choice but to stay the game UNTIL we are sure the local government can control its own country.. Now it should be not on only our shoulders.. the rest of the world has a stake in this as well and this should be a joint U.N. operation.. “

“…he promised to draw down Bush's fiasco (Iraq) and go after the fuckers that killed 3,000 Americans (and others.) Fuck the Taliban and their Al Qaeda buddies. Especially as the father of a young girl, Iam proud that our soldiers and marines are taking it to the people who throw acid in the faces of schoolgirls - for going to school.

edited for:

Kicked and UNrec'd”

“…Afghanistan and a bellicose Reagan provided a rally-round-the-flag effect within the Soviet Union. Anyone who knows anything about the Soviet Union claims the USSR would probably have fallen a decade earlier if the communists hadn't had these outside threats to keep their disastisfied populace preoccupied.”


I see the brigade to keep stupid policy afloat at any cost is out in force. I guess I would feel better if I could somehow agree with all the ludicrous assertions, fact-bending and out and out misrepresentations and prop catapulting that appears in the above.

I heard Obama’s view on the Afghan situation, allegedly somehow different from the Iraq conflict during his campaign, etc. I cringed every time and ranted that this is simply carrying the water for the international business interests that have been injecting themselves into Afghanistan, ours simply being the most recent. I had to keep in mind which of the last presidential candidates were beholding to the oil companies. http://prezoilmoney.oilchangeusa.org/ This policy is a loser and we pay the price in innumerable ways.

In light of the seriously flawed current “election,” process, in light of the impracticability of using a modern oil-fueled mechanized military force against a stated enemy hiding/moving among a civilian population, in light of so many escalating civilian deaths due to “mistakes,” in bombing alleged Taliban at weddings and in abandoned stolen fuel trucks is only making enemies of civilians we are allegedly trying to help/liberate/democracize? Which is it? I forget. Are we there to stop Al Ciada? Don’t they kind of move around, a dark mysterious force that seems to pop up conveniently among any de-stabilized muslim population, or even better, preferably refugees? How do you move against such unconventional forces with our Hammer against a fly strategy of using a mechanized military force against small bands of mobile forces that melt into the countryside? Where have I heard that before? How did the fledgling American colonies defeat the Redcoats? How did the VC overtake the conventional forces arrayed against them?


The conflicts in Afghanistan are generations old. The fundamentalist Taliban is just the latest face in that string of conflicts. The interference of outsiders fuels the Taliban xenophobia and allows them to purchase influence with the unarmed segments of the population. This is keeping that country unstable, allowing outsiders to come in, set up “camps,” allowing the cash crop opium to keep flowing to local farmers and outside international investors/purchasers, allowing western oil interests like Unocal and their puppet Hamid Karzai to keep that product to keep flowing, etc. Who in this diabolical mixture has the interests of the Afghan at heart? OBL was not Afghan, he was Saudi. The alleged hijackers were from Saudi, Yemen, etc. The reasons the Soviets were there had to do with a warm water port for the transport of oil and their fear of the Islamic fundamentalist movement spreading to its Asiatic Islamic states within the old Soviet Union.

I seem to recall some workers in Gdansk, Poland had something to do with the fall of the Eastern Bloc and some people named Gorbachev and Yeltsin that had something to do with bringing about reforms that led to the dissolution of that nation and its regional alliance. But don’t let those facts stand in the way of American myth creation about St. Ronny.

I just hope everyone that advocates such a wasteful adventure in a far off land, information about most Americans receive from a govt. and a corporate owned media that is bent on convincing them that this policy is somehow right or justified or even strategically viable, keeps some of this historical perspective in mind when voicing their bellicose judgments.

What would Cheney’s daughter do with herself if we pulled out? Indeed.

Just my dos centavos
robdogbucky
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