I have a feeling we have lost the Healthcare debate

[AllentownJake]

and it is the President and Rahm's fault. Rahm even shares more blame for the type of candidates he recruited over the past 4 years.

A man who so effectively marketed himself over 18 months couldn't market reform as effectively.

Shame, people will die and we will lose control of the house and senate in 2010 possibly.

[Skittles]

1. we will get exactly what was intended all along

it's a fucking dog and pony show

[Mystayya]

2. Yup- snowballed again

Except this time I was stupid enough to believe.

[Skittles]

4. I've never been snowballed

I've seen it from the beginning

[jonnyblitz]

20. neither have I. I have been a "hater", as they call me, from day

one and I feel vindicated more and more as each day passes. I wasn't expecting to to be so brazen though.

[Echo In Light]

44. And likely a "racist" hater, at that.

Only the hardcore cheerleaders of The Game, and the conservative types, are really like that, though.

[Skittles]

64. pathetic

[LaydeeBug]

37. I've long thought this was the case, but I will take a "wait and see" approach, but we have already

compromised from "single payer" to "public option".

I think this is about Obama letting Big Health know he'll play ball.

[Skittles]

40. he's been playing ball with them all along

fuck, he is ON THEIR TEAM

[scheming daemons]

3. I wish more of the "sky-is-falling" types like you would be willing to put their money where their

...mouth is.


I'd make a small fortune.... just in time for Christmas... when a sweeping Health Care Reform bill is signed.

[AllentownJake]

5. define sweeping Healthcare reform bill

[Donnachaidh]

14. you hearing crickets too? n/t

[scheming daemons]

22. Jeesus... you might give me a little more than 4 minutes to respond... LOL...

[Donnachaidh]

25. why? you seem to have it all in hand -- can't define it that quickly?

n/t

[scheming daemons]

31. A) post #27

B) Question was asked of me at 11:28am EDT. Not having a response by 11:32am EDT does not meet the definition of "crickets?". That's, frankly, retarded.

[Donnachaidh]

42. and the response falls into the retarded group -- definitely NOT sweeping

:shrug:

[scheming daemons]

27. Here's how I'd define it

- Coverage available to all. If not through an employer, then through a public mechanism.
- No one can be denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions
- No one can have their coverage terminated because they got sick


Those three things... would represent a revolution in Health Care reform in this country.

[Donnachaidh]

any price caps to go with that non-denial section?

Because frankly, unless there are, the insurance companies will just price those with pre-existing conditions out of the market. I know, my family has lived this horror show before.

I wouldn't hold my breath on a public anything. And backroom meetings with Big Pharma with NO transparency (remember THAT lost campaign promise?) means consumers will get NO help in forcing the pharma groups to stop profiting off our backs, while they sell their drugs for less elsewhere.

Ain't much of a *sweeping* reform. A tiddle here, a category name change there - and campaign contributions and lobbying still get carried on as usual... :shrug:

[scheming daemons]

43. Pricing those with pre-existing conditions out of the market, to me, is "denying coverage"

Let me rephrase that point:

- Guaranteed affordable coverage, regardless of pre-existing conditions.



Better?

[Donnachaidh]

52. you obviousy have never had to deal with insurance companies directly

sure, they won't DENY it, but THEY set the prices. NOWHERE in any of the information coming out of all of this has there been any REAL mention of AFFORDABILITY.

[scheming daemons]

56. Yes... a 42-yr-old married man with 2 children has NEVER dealt with an insurance company

You have me pegged.

:eyes:



My family and I are immortals. Never been sick. Never been to a hospital. In fact, my wife gave birth to our two kids in our kitchen. We just mopped up the mess and went back to watching American Idol.

:sarcasm:

[Donnachaidh]

61. And you have NEVER had an insurance company turn you down COLD for coverage

Again with the *my take on the grand scheme of things is the ONLY way I can comprehend this* -- nice blinkers dear. You should get matching pom poms for all the cheerleading you do here.

[placton]

51. Are you truly dulliwtted enough to buy that?

It's the old bait and switch.

[Donnachaidh]

53. +1

:thumbsup:

[scheming daemons]

58. What was the bait? What in my post do you NOT think is a good idea?

...and each thing is a pretty revolutionary change from the status quo.

[WeDidIt]

7. Oh to be a dreamer

I'm facing reality.

Obama's gonna throw everybody under the bus so he can say he got a bill passed and signed.

[AllentownJake]

9. and the bill will be absolute shit

and we won't have another bite at the apple for 15 years.

[WeDidIt]

13. And it will actually make matters WORSE

and the insurance companies will get RICHER.

[tridim]

33. How do you know all this? Are you in the administration?

Can you cite any precedent? Do you have any pertainant information at all?

Or is it just a pessimistic guess? If so, why are you stating your guess as fact?

[JVS]

35. Yeah, because someone in the administration is going to go around calling what they'll pass shit

[tridim]

18. How do you know that? Can you cite precedent?

[WeDidIt]

30. Hmmm

Iraq
Afghanistan
Bailouts for hte rich and diddly crap for the working class.

Nah, no precedent there.

[tridim]

All BushCo initiated plans. Try again.

[scheming daemons]

38. You're so up-and-down with your optimism/pessimism that it's amazing you're not throwing up

..from the vertigo.


Wait. until. the. 9th. to. see. what. Obama. says.

And then.... wait until you see what the bill looks like that ends up on his desk.




Quit being a chicken little.

[Mystayya]

8. I think you would lose your shirt on a bet like that.

[JVS]

19. It depends on how willing one is to call whatever ends up passed a sweeping reform

[Mystayya]

24. True

[Donnachaidh]

12. yeah that mandated health insurance will sure be a blessing to the insurance companies

And think of all the FINES the unemployed will get hit with, just in time to boost the budget so Tim Geithner and his pals can rev up the bank bailout for next year....

[JVS]

16. Define sweeping. I have little doubt that something will be passed, but a lot of doubt that it...

will be anything worth having passed.

[Donnachaidh]

21. it will be a bailout for the health insurance companies and price protection for Pharma

Consumers better go stock up on lubricant NOW. :sarcasm:

[Craftsman]

26. Agreed

[tridim]

28. So giving up and giving in is your advice?

That's just stupid.

[JVS]

29. Is that what I fucking said?

You know what's stupid? Your post!

[tridim]

36. So, give us your advice, or get off the pot.

[Donnachaidh]

47. same back atcha dear

You seem to be rah rah -- what advice do YOU give, besides jumping on people who are voicing concerns?

[tridim]

50. My advice is the keep up the pressure on the President and your Reps..

For a strong public option. Which BTW has consistently been the position of the President, regardless of how the MSM reports it.

[JVS]

62. How about I shit on plans that suck instead?

:hurts:

Ahhh, that's better

[Donnachaidh]

46. well, when the president still wants to play in the sandbox with pukes

and HIS responses to daily queries change like the weather -- you tell us HOW we're supposed to fight? Posting snotty comments to people who are on this board, calling them stupid and/or retarded?

This is NOT an Oprah gathering. Sorry if I forgot the pompoms. :eyes:

[tridim]

55. The President has been consistent RE the public option

It's the media and the GOP that are schizophrenic. I thought everyone here already knew that, guess not.

And no, I haven't called anyone "stupid and/or retarded", please quit making shit up.

[Donnachaidh]

68. really? Sure....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x477369

Consistent, eh?

[scheming daemons]

41. My response is in post #27

You can agree or disagree.

[JVS]

63. Thanks, I'll take a look.

[SammyWinstonJack]

6. It's a mystery.

A man who so effectively marketed himself over 18 months couldn't market reform as effectively. :thumbsup:

[Stevenmarc]

10. Lost the healthcare debate? You can't lose what never happened

[grassfed]

11. BIG PHARMA RAHM

http://bucknakedpolitics.typepad.com/buck_naked_politics/2009/08/did-the-white-house-cut-a-deal-with-big-pharma.html

[tridim]

15. Quitting at half-time is a sure way to lose

Just ask Sarah Palin.

Meanwhile, we're still fighting to win. You're welcome to join the celebration after you're done moping.

[AllentownJake]

17. I watched Joe Sestak get his ass kicked last night in a debate

because the way the debate is being framed by the democrats.

The score is 46-7 and their is 15 minutes to play

[tridim]

23. 70% of the people want a public option

The administration and congress have consistently stated that a bill will not pass without a public option.

You're a pessimist, that's fine, but please don't make up shit and call it fact. Where did you get that score?

[WeDidIt]

32. And it's being reported consistently that the public option is dead

and that Obama will announce its demise on the 9th.

[scheming daemons]

34. being "reported" by RW news outlets.... NOBODY in the White House has said that

[Donnachaidh]

49. that's the problem isn't it? The WH cannot seem to GROW A SET

can they? Seems to some of us that what NEEDS to be said and WHO it needs to be said BY - is NOT getting done.

[tridim]

57. That's true, if you ignore everything the WH and Dems have said.

The media is really good at it, but I never thought DU trusted the freaking media.

[scheming daemons]

60. They've only said they favor the Public Option about a million times

.... I guess it needs to be 2 million before they can be said to have "grown a set".

[JVS]

65. "Favor" is a demotion from "insist on"

This is what is bothering people.

[Donnachaidh]

69. suuuure they have

I wonder though -- this was just posted:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x477369

a *million* times you say? :rofl:

[tridim]

39. Ahh, it's been reported huh?

It was also reported that Iraq had WMD's.

Why in the hell would you trust the MSM over what the Administration says? That's just nuts.

[deaniac21]

70. 70% is laughable. 70% of the people who don't have insurance?

[surrealAmerican]

45. Despite the number of "news cycles" that have elapsed ...

... the health care debate is nowhere near over. Sure, we might not "win", but most of the country supports the idea of a public option. There is still hope.

[placton]

48. We WON the debate

with 78% of americans. But, silly us, we elected Mr. Obama. He begs to differ with us.

[tridim]

59. Got a link for that assertion?

[spanone]

54. the people want it, the media wants a fight. i'll go with the people.

[grassfed]

66. No Public Option because hick bitch Palin will say mean things of facebook

[Cleita]

67. How can you lose something you never had?

There was no debate, just what our politicians wanted us to talk about. No other voices were allowed equal access or equal voice in the issue to make their case.

[WI_DEM]

71. We're going to get the biggest health reform bill ever passed by Obama. Kennedy and Clinton

never got anything near what Obama will get.