Are Democrats this stupid? A trigger option in 2 years if insurers don't tow the line?

[still_one]

Things will NOT be better in two years

republicans are now saying that we should start healthcare discussiosn from the beginning

If after 8 years of bush, and republican lies and deceit, and the Democrats are talking like this, its over, for any viable healthcare bill

[Hell Hath No Fury]

1. If the American people give --

the Dems the House, the Senate, and the White House in large part because of O's number one campaign issue of heathcare reform and they DON'T get it done, then the Democratic Party is over.

[still_one]

4. I agree, at least until new blood comes into the party /nt

[roguevalley]

53. There should be a ticker in times square showing how many people

die, go backrupt and lose their homes because no one is going to do the right thing in the time period these belly crawling weasels are proposing.

[fascisthunter]

2. it's a Bullshit Move to Con us into Voting for them in 2010

boy do they think we are stupid!

[still_one]

6. I certainly hope not /nt

[Mystayya]

8. BINGO

[SammyWinstonJack]

14. Bidness as usual.

x(

[Junkdrawer]

34. Almost correct.

it's a Bullshit Move to make us think we voted for them in 2010.

Diebold/ES&S/etc. are alive and well.

[Joanne98]

3. A million corporate lawyers that will find a loophole. DUH!

[Mystayya]

5. The trigger will never activate. They know it, we know it.

It's smoke and mirrors.

[RaleighNCDUer]

52. Actually, I think it would -

it would absolutely be necessary because the industry is NOT going to change, which will force the trigger to go off RIGHT BEFORE THE ELECTION.

They'll be able to scream 'failure' for the inadequate reforms for two years, AND scream 'socialism' at the public option right at the election, catching the Democrats coming and going.

There will not be enough time for the public option to settle in before the election and actually accomplish much, so when they (as they plan) regain control they can kill it before anybody can see that it would have worked, given time.

[Skittles]

7. yes,many Democrats are this stupid

look how many DUers still defend Obama's pitiful healthcare reform "perfomance"

[redqueen]

9. No, complicit. It's up to these Dems' constituents to pressure them.

Lord but I hope they do... loudly and repeatedly.

[still_one]

11. You are right, It is more important than ever now /nt

[brentspeak]

10. The corporate Democrats run the party

It's a total disgrace. I don't know how the progressives in Congress can keep their wits. I know I wouldn't; I'd be holding Capitol steps press conferences denouncing the corporate sell-outs every day.

[napi21]

12. Call me what you want, I believe the trigger will work IF it's

written properly!

You may not like it, but when you have to negotiate on any thing, you NEVER get everything you want!

There's something else you need to think about re the public option. As it's written right now, if your employer provides ins., you would NOT be able to participate in the public option! By far, most people do currently get their ins. through their employer. BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!

[regnaD kciN]

16. Define "written properly"...

Even with the most stringent requirements, all the insurance industry has to do is toe the line for a couple of years and meet all the requirements to prevent the trigger from activating. Then, one day after the two years are up, and the public option is legally dead, the sky's the limit!

[redqueen]

19. You know what... you're right.

I'll still be pissed about it... but you're right. There will be no perfect solution... and progress is progress, even if sleazeballs do get to rake in more cash thanks to their corporate-funded meddling.

[Mystayya]

25. The problem is the trigger will never be activated.

And they get to laugh all the way to the bank that they've snowed us for a few more years, stupid naive little things that we are.

[redqueen]

26. Perhaps... in which case it'd be more corporate welfare.

Which would suck hard enough to bend light... forcing taxpayers once again to shoulder the burden of "free market" parasites... but at least people wouldn't be dying for lack of coverage.

[Mystayya]

28. Sure they would

And here is why I say that:

You force the uninsured to pay money they do not have to purchase really crappy coverage with large deductibles. Those people will not have enough money to pay those deductibles before the ins company has to cover anything. So the Company gets the working stiffs money and the working stiff gets nothing in return. Unless of course, the worker is seriously ill or injured in which case if his family could round up the money for the deductible he would be covered.

To me that is worse then none at all.

[redqueen]

30. Those unable to pay get subsidies...

IF something like that passses, it's just more taxpayer-funded corporate welfare.

Nothing is worse than nothing at all... I find saying that offensive, actually... people are dying for lack of care. To imply that paying more than we should so they can live is not worth it is frankly sick, IMO. How fucking greedy are we?

[Mystayya]

36. Yes some subsidies on the premium

But the deductible is the issue. If I know I have to pay the 1st 1000 or 500 of a trip to the ER the only way I am going is if I am unconscious and someone else calls 911. Also they will price the uninsurable right out of the market. If the fine is cheaper then we will just go without. And yes, people will still die.

Without a public option the Companies have no reason to change. They will use every loophole their congressional employees leave open for them.

[redqueen]

37. Are you positive the deductible would apply as well,

for those who qualify for subsidies?

[Mystayya]

38. No one is positive about anything- but I would bet on it.

I compromised with the public option instead of single payer. Not going to support anything less or any politician who supports anythings less. Regardless of the daily propaganda spin. Not falling for it anymore.

[redqueen]

39. Not asking you to compromise...

just wondering whether that was based on something concrete or if it was speculation.

[Mystayya]

41. Its from watching the corporations screw us for decades

Why would anyone trust them to do the right things now? The only way I can have anything "concrete" is if I wait until the non-public option plan gets passed, the companies screw us again only now they get to fuck more of us, and then I can come back to you with something concrete.

If someone steals from me every day for decades and then their daddy says "hey now, you shouldn't steal so much" should I be content and just trust that he will stop stealing? Common sense tells me that it would take something drastic to get him to stop.

[redqueen]

43. I was only asking a simple question.

If they're able to see that low-income people need help with premiums, it's not a longshot to think they might see the need to help with co-pays as well.

Peace & low stress...

[Mystayya]

45. heh I am not yelling at you- sorry if it seemed so

But I am really stressed out over this. It is important to me. I am tired of the spin. Tired of the propaganda. I am really tired of having the game sway more towards the repuke side every day. And I am REALLY tired of the rich getting richer because the masses are so easily persuaded that up is down and left is right.

[redqueen]

46. I edited my post...

I'm right there with you with the fed-upness... but I *do* stress out if I let it get to me, so I was projecting... sorry!

[Mystayya]

48. You have brought up a good point though

I am stressing over it and maybe I should walk away from the topic for a while.

[Feron]

47. Not necessarily.

A person is screwed if he or she can't afford a policy at any price, but yet makes too much to qualify for a subsidy.

And if a person can't afford the monthly premium, then a tax break in April isn't going to do a damn thing for them.

Take a look at how well Romney Care is working out. If you have Casper health insurance, then you might as well have nothing at all.

[redqueen]

49. Good point... if it's structured so that the person has to pay ...

and then claim the expense later, that's fucked.

[Mystayya]

24. The trigger will never be activated

Just smoke and mirrors to get people to vote in 2010 and 2012.

[BlooInBloo]

42. Mighty big "if".

[WeDidIt]

THE TRIGGER KICKED IN YEARS AGO

In 1993 the insurance comapnies were given it all.

They were irresponsible. Time to kick them to the curb.

MEdicare for all!

[Better Today]

13. I disagree, things will seem better in two years, just long enough for the trigger

to expire. The reverse of what just happened with credit cards, where all the changes took place just before the onset of new rules.


Either way, it's complete BS and needs to be removed from any bill.

[bamacrat]

15. The republicans don't deserve another chance they had 8 years and did nothing.

If we have the idea of fixing healthcare and they never cared to do it they shouldn't be asked. They were to busy depleting our resources destroying our economy and ruining our reputation around the world. Not to mention invading countries and getting so many people killed. Oh but now they want to "help" with healthcare, fuck that I don't think they should be listened to.

[Gin]

17. in 2 years the majority may be gone.....

[placton]

18. Yes, it appears they are

that stupid.

[Individualist]

20. It's DLC, and they're not stupid; they're complicit.

[janet118]

22. Yeah, winning never seemed all that important to the DLC

It was all about moving Democrats to the right. When Howard Dean was DNC chair, he was all about winning. The DLC fought him every inch of the way and finally kicked him out the door.

[Paper Roses]

21. How about they make it happen now, save this "trigger until

later.

This is baloney and we all know it. Go with this stop-gap measure and never see anything happen for anyone that will be of real consequence. I get the opinion that this is just a shut-em-up tactic.

[Luminous Animal]

23. That's "toe the line". (n/t)

[janet118]

27. If someone says "trigger" - say "shoot me now!!" n/t

[Oregone]

29. It actually has sensible value

As of now, the scored "public option" is pitiful, and will only cover 10 million people in a decade--not enough to compete, drive down costs, or keep anyone honest.

If they can compromise with a "trigger" to create a public option that every American can choose from (a strong one), more like Medicare for All, then its not a bad move at all.

The threat of a real robust public option will keep the insurers honest more than the existence of a shitty one.

[erehwon2]

31. The "trigger" is a scam

If there's a "trigger" clause, you can kiss real reform goodbye. It's a scam to keep charging obscene premiums with shitty copay and deductible conditions on top of the shitty, reluctant service you get from them now. Then, when the 2-year "trigger" evaluation comes up, they'll figure out a new way to put it off. This has been going on since the fucking 1940s.

That "trigger" bullshit has got to be shot down pronto. It's bad medicine folks, it gives the "private" vampires 2 solid years of swiftboating and fudging numbers.

[scheming daemons]

32. Until I see the terms of the "trigger", I can't comment on it's value

Depends on what would cause it to kick in.

[RoccoR5955]

33. Call them and tell them

that this "trigger" is bovine fecal matter. They tried it for Medicaid Part D (for Dubya), and even though the costs of prescriptions have gone way up, it still hasn't triggered. Besides, some lawyer will find a loophole, and there goes the "trigger."
The only "trigger" who worked for me was Roy Rogers' horse, and it's DEAD, just as this trigger should be.

Call the White House at [phone] and tell them that they will lose your support if this trigger is in ANY bill for healthcare, and there MUST BE a REAL public option, or it gets NO SUPPORT! None, nada, zilch, nicht.

[Overseas]

35. Trigger has blown off the hinges already-- private insurers have had over a decade

to show us they could do better. And they have failed miserably. 47,000,000 uninsured, millions more bankrupt from medical bills, private profits soared.

Shall we reward the private insurers who have paid millions to amoral right wing PR firms to stir up dangerous fear and hatred to protect their private profits?

We have made things fair for the private insurers time and time again-- but have they made things fairer for us?

NO-- millions more have been dropped and bankrupted

and millions have been spent to stir up the lunatic right wing fringe (a.k.a. "genuine grass roots groups") to storm town halls against their own best interests--

WHY BE FAIR TO THUGS WHO CONDUCT DANGEROUS BULLYING LIKE THAT?

Sorry pals. Been there. Done that. Things have gone from bad to worse and your private insurers are paying people to make things worse.

TRIGGERS have been blown off the hinges. Thanks to the private insurers.

[Festivito]

40. And then trigger following month, then week, then day by day.

Or, just cut the BS and go to the best plan of all:
Choose own doctor
Covers everything
Covers everybody
Costs less -- surprisingly but true --

Single payer

[subcomhd]

44. Let's see the bill, it may be good and it may be bullshit nt

[Taverner]

50. This is a "sweep it under the rug and hope no one notices" option

Fuckall, my outrage is spent

[damntexdem]

51. For Russian Roulette, a trigger is required.

nuff said