What role do American health habits play in the health care debate?

[kayakjohnny]

So many people in this country make themselves sick. And they do it in many ways, week after month after year. The information about staying healthy is out there and easily searchable. But a huge percent of the populace seems indifferent to the things that could keep them out of the health care system to begin with. Including many of those who I happen to know personally.

Are they cutting back on the sickening foods and substances? And ingesting what they know to be right? Are they exercising enough or at all? Have they given themselves a clue about genetic predispositions to certain health conditions that should be glaringly obvious? Do they live a risky life, hoping to beat the odds?

A great deal has been said about government's role in aiding those in need. And so much is said about private sector's ability to continue along in this profit-based mode.

I realize that there are the natural effects of aging, and the unforeseen trauma of accidents. But I'm talking about the billions of dollars spent treating disorder and disease directly related to lifestyle choices.

What about the actions of the individual? Does any of the responsibility for the condition of this nation's people lie with the people themselves? And should they be held accountable to some degree for the place we find ourselves now?

[zanne]

1. RUN! nt

[Cant trust em]

5. hahaha.

It's unfortunate though that any discussion of personal responsibility will trigger a negative response from liberals.

Similarly, any talk about community oriented action produces a knee jerk reaction from many conservatives.

[The Straight Story]

7. There is a difference between personal responsibility and legislating things

Educate people more, allocate funds for it, better labeling - all for it.

Outside of that you start infringing on peoples' choices relating to their own bodies.

[kayakjohnny]

14. I said held accountable as in 'bears some responsibility'

not as in 'should be legislated'.

Just to clear any confusion.

[HillbillyBob]

9. It is also unfortunate that repressives find their way in here.

We need a better model of care. I do agree and have 'cleaned' up my act starting about 20 years ago.

Then on the other hand I personally see more fat, out of shape, beer swilling, cigar chomping Rs.

So hop down from that soap box and go run around the block a few times.

Libruls can generalize too.

We need to see gym classes back in schools, and for the poisons sold in the grocery stores to be outlawed. Nothin nanny state about it, just the fact that 80% of the stuff sold in the stores anymore is crap, hydrolyzed and hydrogenated oils in food are the same as eating plastic.
Look it up it is hydrolyzed petroleum is how plastic is made.
Then you have high fructose corn syrup in everything and I kid not every thing even in freaking mayonaise.

My partner and I have moved to a farm so we can grow good organic food to eat and to sell, we also trade with our neighbors for free range eggs that are not fed hormones and antibiotics. They also taste better. I took some to my mom, dint tell her they were free range as she believes every thing has to come from the market. She told me later how much better they tasted, they are also lower in cholesterol, and higher in protein and other goodies. We also get beef from another neighbor who only feeds grass, does not do hormones or drugs, the only time his cows get drugs is when they are sick and they are not butchered they are kept separate until healthy again. Though he has told me that he rarely has to medicate them.

[Cant trust em]

12. I'm fit as a fiddle, but its not my OP. nt

[Cant trust em]

2. That's part of the preventive care model.

It wasn't until recently that Medicare was convinced that paying for a gym membership could increase health on the front end and save money having to provide extra treatments.

[DJ13]

3. Regulation of behavior is the antithesis of freedom

[kayakjohnny]

6. How could you possibly get that from what I wrote?

I was talking about personal responsibility for one's own choices. And how that plays into the bigger health care picture. Where in the world do you get regulation from that?

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. they have been getting regulation from things like this

I WANNA EAT WHAT I WANT LEAVE ME ALONE AND GET OFF MY YARD!

Don't worry, I should reach for the popcorn. Even things like better labeling scares some folks, and I have no clue why.

[DJ13]

11. I was talking about personal responsibility for one's own choices.

That phrase was precisely why I posted what I did.

Its been used repeatedly by those in the past who are one step away from trying to legislate behavior.

If you werent thinking "how can we change the way these people live" and it was an innocent question, I apologize.

[kayakjohnny]

13. Sorry for the confusion....

No way I was going down that road. Was simply talking about each of us, and the decisions we make. I don't want to 'change the way these people live'. I am not one step from legislating. I'm only trying to include a deeper insight to the debate. Many people have created their state of existence, either consciously or otherwise. That's all.

[Fumesucker]

23. Because that is where this particular meme will end up..

Wait and see, government, like fire, is a powerful too but a fearsome master.

The USA is the most law infested country on the planet, we have literally millions of pages of laws, rules and regulations, you really think the politicians are going to stop at a few more thousand pages?

"Drugs" are illegal because they are "bad for you", ipso facto the government now has the precedent to make anything that is "bad" for us illegal with a very few exceptions (guns, religion for two).

[The Straight Story]

4. Or for that matter, pollution from cars, sitting in traffic, watching more than approved amt of tv

and not exercising enough, having sex with more than one partner, etc and so on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. The information is out there, but it is not.

HFCS and Transfats should be removed and we should have a better truth in labeling laws.

After that... yes, there is a role of the individual, but also a role of government

Watch Cali... now that the state has mandated that the major food chains have nutrition values available. I know I now order from that and not the menu, looking for things that have a reasonable carb\salt\ sugar quantify and anecdotally a manager for one of those chains did tell me he has noticed a slight reduction in orders for the truly outrageous dishes.

That is a good step.

I'd add PSAs into proper portions, and truly tools like true labels.

And of course our food police (You know the real guys and gals who make sure your food is safe) should have some components removed from the food chain that are pervasive and we know not good for you.

[Raineyb]

15. What difference does it make?

The point is health care and making sure that we don't allow corporations to kill us in the name of making a buck. Being able to see a doctor should have nothing to do with anything you do or do not do. That's the meme the right wing uses, treating health care as a privilege instead of a right and it needs to stop.

[kayakjohnny]

16. They couldn't kill us in the name of making a buck, especially if so many of us

didn't make ourselves sick voluntarily. That was my point. And you kind of missed it.

[Raineyb]

21. No I didin't miss it but you clearly missed mine.

You can do all the right things and still end up sick. Bringing up what people do makes it sound as though health care should be rationed to those who deserve it. It's a right wing meme that we shouldn't even take up as remotely legit.

[undeterred]

17. People who put themselves at high risk for cancer

and other diseases by smoking and drinking deserve health care too. So do fat people and those who never exercise at all. It would be good to create a culture where everyone has good health habits, but the corporations that benefit from smoking, drinking, and fast food fight it.

[kayakjohnny]

18. Agree with every point you make.

Just wanted to enter people's personal decisions into the discussion as an important angle to why the need for health care has become so widespread and pervasive. And in some cases, as a matter of choice.

Not at all saying they don't deserve it, only saying that so many have created the need where it otherwise may not have existed.

[TahitiNut]

19. Punish Them!! (Because death and disability just ain't enough for liberals.)

I'm constantly appalled by the tacit presumption that seems to accompany the pain of seeing a few illusory shekels spent for the "undeserving" that disability and early death just ain't enough punishment. Shun them! Lepers! Witches!


Yet I rarely if ever hear anyone advocating more public golf courses, more public swimming pools, more bicycle paths, more neighborhood parks, and more of every kind of recreational (i.e. exercise) facility. After all, look what the AFFLUENT buy for themselves. Exclusively, of course.

Fucking ridiculous.

[H2O Man]

24. I agree fully!

Punish poor people. Darn them. They are just poot, because they aren't as smart, as good, or as healthy as rich people. It's their fault, not rich people's.

Poor people know this. And this is why, although they love low-income neighborhoods -- ever see how many they can crowd into one apartment? -- and they play loud music and party all the time, we should allow them to be sick and die without forcing them to suffer from having things they can't possibly understand -- like health care.

[Luminous Animal]

20. Other countries deal with similar issues... and YET!

They still manage to recognize the fallibility of human beings and don't leave them to struggle, go bankrupt, live in poverty and die in homage to the supremacy of private enterprise.

[eridani]

22. What is this horseshit assumption that most people are sick to some degree?

5% of the population in every age demographic slice accounts for 50% of health care costs. 15% accounts for 85% of costs. Therefore, the other 85% accounts for only 15% of costs.

Many health Nazis think that their good health is some kind of special accomplishment. It isn't--it is the statistical norm for developed countries.