I'll be the one to say it: Obama's school speech is a really bad idea.

[BuyingThyme]

Irrespective of what he says, it's just not a proper use of his authority.

No U.S. president should use his or her position to establish a one-way communication conduit to public schools.

It's bad enough that the media give these guys prime-time air without explaining why it's necessary. We don't need the schools in this game.

So I said it.

<0

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

5. hey, cut that out. I butt heads with BT all the time, and I disagree with her

on this, but she's sure as hell not a troll and she's been here much, much longer than YOU.

[Uzybone]

2. foolishness is amongst us too

[ddeclue]

3. Wow and I thought MY thread had started a flame war..

:popcorn:

[Uzybone]

8. do they give prizes for starting flame wars?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

4. You're kidding, right?

You have got to be kidding..........................

[BuyingThyme]

64. Just an obvious truth.

What's next, is he going to send out photos of himself to be hung on the walls of every classroom? I guarantee you that would get the same support here, so I guess that makes it right.

[Realityhack]

76. You mean like the...

history of the presidents calendars, or the history books, or the picture of the president that hangs in the lobby of many schools already? Or maybe the one that hangs at the RMV?

You do realize these are *public* schools right? Why on earth shouldn't the president address schools on appropriate topics like the importance of education, science, or whatever?

You also realize this is not the first time this has ever happened right? And hardly the only time a presidential speech will ever be aired in the classroom.

[BuyingThyme]

80. As far as I know this is the first time something like this has happened

in this country.

[Realityhack]

83. I thought shrubs dad did something similar... but I coudl be wrong.

I honestly don't see it as a problem if it is school related stuff. Importance of education etc. The government has a vested interest in that. It isn't like we don't have any government material in schools.

[BuyingThyme]

86. I suspect I might support what he's doing had he not done it unilaterally.

It's just creepy the way he's handled this. It's going to hurt him in a way similar to the NY fly-bys.

[Realityhack]

87. To be fair...

everything he does is going to hurt him with someone somewhere. People were mad he got an armored limo including people on DU.

I understand what you are getting at. I don't agree but I see where you are coming from.

[Critters2]

134. Unilaterally? What the hell does that mean? We only have one president.

So, how could this have been done "bi-laterally"?

[Posteritatis]

91. You are wrong. Bush Sr. and Reagan both did similar things

There've also been radio addresses by earlier presidents.

Cute attempt to paint a slippery slope from an address to students to a cult of personality around the president a few posts back, by the way.

[BuyingThyme]

101. This is not a radio address.

[Posteritatis]

105. *foreheadsmack*

Try reading my whole post, unless you're saying you wouldn't object to a radio address being broadcast into the schools instead, which is a whole other level of ridiculous if you're objecting to a televised one.

[BuyingThyme]

108. If Obama wants to make an address, and schools want to play it, fine.

That's not what's happening here. What's happening here is that Obama is putting himself in the classroom.

[Hansel]

201. So did Bush. Satellite uplink. It's no big deal. nt

[Kalyke]

98. Then you don't know much.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909030020

On November 14, 1988, Reagan addressed and took questions from students from four area middle schools in the Old Executive Office Building. According to press secretary Marlin Fitzwater, the speech was broadcast live and rebroadcast by C-Span, and Instructional Television Network fed the program “t o schools nationwide on three different days.” Much of Reagan’s speech that day covered the American “vision of self-government” and the need “to keep faith with the unfinished vision of the greatness and wonder of America” but in the middle of the speech, the president went off on a tangent about the importance of low taxes...

[BuyingThyme]

102. If Obama wants to do what Reagan did, I'm fine with it.

But that's not what he's doing.

[madeline_con]

170. Then, what IS he doing? n/t

[Hansel]

202. Really? You would support him advocating a political agenda rather than

what Obama is going to do: encourage kids to study hard and stay in school?

Interesting.

[madeline_con]

169. "As far as I know" being the operative words.

Please inform yourself as to what actually occurs in American classrooms. It will help you discuss same with knowledge to back up your posts. Just a suggestion. :hi:

[PSzymeczek]

208. Reagan did it in 1988,

about the joys of tax cuts. It was broadcast on CSPAN and shown in schools on three different days.

[madeline_con]

168. Cocoa High School has a pic of Obama in the office.

Should I get "offended" and demand that their blatant "misuse of his authority" be taken down?!

[Lost-in-FL]

218. All Public schools have a picture of the president at their administration office.

Any office funded by the government (schools, post offices, VA Offices, etc.) have a picture of the President.

[Arkana]

6. So the President shouldn't address the country's students and extol

the virtues of hard work and staying in school?

Gotcha. It's strange how some people want him to use his bully pulpit only SOME of the time.

[Chemisse]

21. I disagree too

But I would not call someone a troll just because that person happened to disagree with me.

We need to support independent thinking. We don't need a bunch of lambs following a single mindset. We are not Republicans.

Frankly, this person would be getting rave reviews with the exact same post, if it was written a couple of years ago.

[BuyingThyme]

25. ;-)

;-)

[Critters2]

135. This isn't independent thinking. This is Republican thinking. nt

[Lorien]

207. Yet Reagan was allowed to address students on tax policy

ummm...Okay...

[hlthe2b]

7. Actually, I think the rabid reaction from the RW loonies...

is driving an even bigger wedge between those sane independents that shift elections.

[madeline_con]

13. "those sane independents" are too small in number to shift elections. n/t

[hlthe2b]

30. really... ?! You believe that? Please do show me your numbers

that lead you to believe that independents do not shift elections. I did not say, "sane republicans..." I said sane INDEPENDENTS.

[Bleacher Creature]

9. Is this a joke? The President of the US shouldn't speak directly to students?

You know that he's President of everyone, not just Democrats.

Had Bush Jr. done this (his dad actually DID), I would have grumbled, but he was still the President.

[BuyingThyme]

12. If he's president of everyone, why does he have to set up this event for schools?

[madeline_con]

15. Students aren't U.S. citizens? Do you hear yourself? n/t

[BuyingThyme]

48. I don't understand your point.

[madeline_con]

161. The point is, why NOT schools?

:shrug:

[Posteritatis]

17. Because presidents never speak to specific audiences, right? (nt)

[DevonRex]

28. It's not a joke. And it's the perfect way to end this hate-filled day on DU.

Hate for the Democratic President, that is. So, I say let 'em go ahead and pile on before he even talks to Congress next week.

That way I'll know if the board HAS any actual democrats on it anymore.

[BuyingThyme]

61. To stand against ultra-authoritarianism is hate?

Wow.

[Posteritatis]

95. A presidential address is "ultra-authoritarianism" now?

God, I knew people on this site lacked all perspective for such things, but I think that's a new one even for here.

[BuyingThyme]

109. Okay, I'll ask again:

Can you give me an example of something more authoritarian than a head of state unilaterally deciding to broadcast directly into children's classrooms?

[Posteritatis]

112. Easily, and at great length. If you can't, you need to read a book or two. (nt)

[Critters2]

137. I can't believe I'm reading such hatred of a Democratic president on DU.

Apparently, no place is safe from the wingnuts anymore.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

154. Where are you getting hate out of any of Thyme's posts?

[madeline_con]

162. Maybe not hate, but questionable questions, if you will.

spell eidt

Why should students NOT be addressed by the president? He wants to stress the importance of education and goal setting. Is that so controversial that the venue of the address be questioned?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

167. I've got no problem with Obama addressing the students. Don't know where you got that.

[madeline_con]

171. I said "Maybe not hate, etc..." about Thyme's posts.

I didn't mean you had a problem. I was trying to be a second-hand clarification system. :hi:

[madeline_con]

10. Please. Schools are government run. Why should Channel 1 get exclusive

rights to students' time?

[BlooInBloo]

11. hahahah! That idiot just can't do *anything* right.

:rofl:

[DevonRex]

14. You might as well say it. This has become an anti-Obama site.

I'll assume your opinion is welcomed here by many.

[madeline_con]

19. Silly wabbit, stop making cwazy assumptions!

:spank:

[DevonRex]

22. Hey, go vote in the poll on who you'll vote for in 2012. Then tell me

I'm making assumptions. Or one of the other 20 threads like that today. Or the 20 yesterday.

[BlueCaliDem]

38. I've noticed that - after being away for a few months. Unbelievable. eom

[DevonRex]

41. I only left for 2 months. I shouldn't have bothered coming back. nt

[DefenseLawyer]

224. There have always been loons here

Idealistic, unrealistic Green Party cranks are a solid little niche here, always have been. Don't pay any attention to them, you'll feel better.

[BuyingThyme]

54. This site has become an authoritarian site.

A huge number of here now support war, torture, and renditioning. I wish that was anti-Obama, but it's not.

[RobinA]

74. It's BEEN An

authoritarian site for quite some time now. Death to all who disagree, disagree=troll... No one with a low thread count lower than one's own can possibily have a valid point. Same underlying philosophy has the wingers. Red wine in blue bottles.

[Critters2]

142. You should do something about the person holding a gun to your head

and forcing you to read and post here. There must be a law against that.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

156. Obama wouldn't be allowed on this site. That has been the case for quite some time.

[Tim01]

16. I think by him addressing schools, he is encouraging school participation. nt

[NightWatcher]

18. like he doesnt have enough stuff to do...

baby steps, Obama. First give the kids (and parents) some decent healthcare, then tell them to stay in school.

[SammyWinstonJack]

62. +1

[Posteritatis]

96. I'm fairly sure the executive branch can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. (nt)

[earth mom]

104. Yep, get everyone health care first. This school thing has gone off the rails-better for Obama to

cut his losses on it and focus on one of the most important things, if not THE most important thing he may ever do-health care for all.

[rwheeler31]

20. Hmmmm School children should not respect our

president?

[BuyingThyme]

23. Why? Is that the purpose of the speech?

[anigbrowl]

35. Interesting question

I mean, look at our last president.

[spartan61]

24. I disagree with you !!!

As a teacher I ask you, what is wrong with President Obama encouraging students to do their very best? Unfortunately many students never hear this message from their parents. BTW, as someone already posted, other presidents have done this in the past and no one ever said the president was trying to "indoctrinate" the children. I honestly believe this would not be a problem for anyone if the president was a white man. Racism??? You betcha!!

[BlueCaliDem]

26. I wholly disagree with you. I think it's an EXCELLENT idea

It allows our children to see as fact that, yes, anyone can be President if they want.

Before the election of the first AA President of the United States, it was just a nice little fable. Now, as he comes before our children and reiterates and proves this fact, it becomes fact so it's an excellent idea.

So, now I've said it.

[AspenRose]

53. Precisely why so many are against it.

[yodoobo]

72. I don't think Obama is a secret

I seriously doubt that a single student is going to be suprised next week to learn that the President is an AA.

I think this speech is a great idea and is a good way to inspire our youth.

But I can't buy that its a method to prove to our kids that he really is black.

[kiva]

192. A slight correction - the last election proved that any man

can be president...for women, it's still a fable.

[TheCowsCameHome]

27. Yeah, no president should speak to the future leaders of America.

Let 'em learn on their own time.

:sarcasm:

[BlueCaliDem]

36. Yeah, especially if he's an African-American and a Democrat

If s/he's Caucasian and Democrat, it's okay.

If s/he's a Caucasian and a Repub, it's okay.

But we draw the line if he's an AA and a Democrat! Oh heeeeel no! We should only espouse pretty words like "anybody can be President", but dagnabbit! We draw the line when it comes to putting our money where our mouths are!:sarcasm:

Americans seriously need to grow up already. :banghead:

[Critters2]

138. + 1. nt

[anigbrowl]

29. In principle, I disagree. In practice. you have a point. If W had given such a speech...

...well, I think we all know what the DU response would have been, yes? It would have been smarter of Obama to just use his weekly YouTube and make it about Back to School stuff. On the other hand, this will blow over within 24 hours of his giving the speech, which I'm sure will be suitably generic.

[OneGrassRoot]

39. Actually, for many of us, we would have never thought of protesting W....

giving a similar motivational back-to-school speech. The thought of trying to block POTUS (even though that's questionable in W's case, still...) from speaking to STUDENTS in a PUBLIC SCHOOL about EDUCATION never would have occurred to me.

And, if people would have protested in the same manner as we're seeing today, I'd be fighting back just as hard.

This is simply not a political thing whatsoever in my eyes. That's what has so many of us amazed is that such a simple, innocent thing has been politicized.

It's not political. If W tried to lead them in prayer or talk about policy, that's a different story. Same for Obama. But that is not what this is at all.

This is truly the jump the shark moment for citizens of this country.

[anigbrowl]

40. I see your point, but...

...although I actually share your perspective, you have surely noticed that some people hold a low opinion of moderate or non-partisan positions. So while I am pro- Obama giving a speech about the importance of school, I am a little skeptical of some who are loudly evoking respect for the the office of the president, but who would never have bought into the idea a year ago.

[emilyg]

42. Good point.

[Generic Other]

56. I objected to his sitting in a classroom reading MY PET GOAT

while NYC burned. But not because he was there to indoctrinate, but because he used the kids as a backdrop for his own PR purposes. That made me angry. Having a president tell kids to work hard and get good grades is not using them! Big difference.

[Hansel]

205. If he did it before 911, few would have given a sh*t

After 911 and he started violating the constitution ad nauseum there would be have been more legitimacy to objecting, but I still doubt you would have seen it jumped on by schools and the media like this has.

Give me a break. There has be a double standard for Republicans and Democrats for 4 decades now. Maybe DU would have complained, but there would not have been the reaction from the schools or media if it had been GW Bush. They would have bowed down and congratulated him for talking to the children he is "keeping safe" and bitch slapped any "Librul" complaining about it as being unpatriotic and a traitor.

There is no way any school would have dared not to carry him nor would anyone on the left been taken seriously for complaining. The right would have pitched a fit if anyone objected.

Seriously.

[stray cat]

31. Would the same argument mean presidents can not speak at graduations or public gatherings

where people in general are obligated to attend like joint meetings of the congress and senate?

[mamaleah]

34. Students can and do walk out of graduations over speakers.

The "opt your kid out" letters sent to parents allow for the same option.

If my kid had to suffer through some nauseating speech by Bush, I'd have wanted the opt out option.

[TokenQueer]

32. You're probably right.

I still get radio wave transmissions from my Presidential Award for Physical Fitness... and I buried in my parents' back yard back in 1986!

[WorseBeforeBetter]

177. Hahaha! Mine is tucked away in a scrapbook...

and stored in my office closet. Maybe that's my problem.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

33. I disagree. I think Obama is the perfect person to address our school kids.

He worked his way up from the bottom. All presidents push that "stay in school" stuff, but it's different coming from people like the bushes because they were wealthy. As Bush proved, you can be really smart and work hard and sometimes the dumb frat boy beats you anyway because he has money and family. But Barack and Michelle worked hard to achieve their goals (particularly Michelle).

[burning rain]

37. You're mistaken. It's a mighty fine thing for the prez to do.

Gives the anklebiters, er I mean the rugrats, some civics. God knows they need it.

[Telly Savalas]

213. Considering that most of the teabaggers who are freaking out about stupid shit

like this are over the age of 30, I wouldn't target kids as the ones most in need of civics.

[laughingliberal]

43. I think it was just fine

I also think if the president goes to the bathroom, the RW will have some gripe about it.

[Butch350]

44. Why not? Is there a seperation of state and school rule.

Besides you got a remote and an off switch. You don't want to see or hear the politician, then don't watch or listen.

[BuyingThyme]

57. I'm not a school kid.

[Toucano]

45. I could not possibly disagree more.

I think all Presidents of the United States should demonstrate such interest in directly talking you young people.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. Believing there's no global warming is a really bad idea.

Obama's speech? Not so much.

[BuyingThyme]

God, I didn't know I still owned you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

77. Is that what you call it?

How's this thread working out for you?

[BuyingThyme]

88. Just the way I expected.

But as an authoritarian who believes whatever they tell you to, you'll never understand.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

89. So you purposefully started an absurd nonsensical thread...

for the goal of being flamed, mocked, and ridiculed.

There's a word for that sort of behaviour....

[BuyingThyme]

90. I simply stated the truth knowing most people would disagree.

And as you've proven, you don't understand people who do that because you have been trained since birth to believe whatever you're told to believe. Just like you proved last time.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

117. Ah yes.

You know a secret truth that nobody else knows, and they won't believe because people are conspiring against the truth.

Yeah, there's a term for that sort of thing too.

[Critters2]

143. +1. nt

[BuyingThyme]

148. There's nothing secret about it.

Just because you're incapable of understanding things does not mean they do not exist.

[Posteritatis]

166. LOL... wow. (nt)

[BuyingThyme]

189. Wow what? Do you see secrets too?

Tell us about the secrets. I can't believe you got so excited about he secrets but decided not to share. It's as if you didn't actually have something intelligent to share.

[Posteritatis]

210. Again, LOL

[Generic Brad]

214. You did not state the truth

You stated your opinion. Opinion does not equal truth.

[Butch350]

47. Please stop thinking for our kids...

Just maybe some of the kids may be excited about our president speaking to them. Don't be a
kostopo.

[BuyingThyme]

50. Kids, parents, and teachers can decide on their own.

We don't need politicians deciding for them.

[Fuzz]

49. Bullshit

[Mari333]

51. as a kid I hated when the POTUS was on TV

I cant imagine kids have changed that much.

[SIMPLYB1980]

52. I'm glad he's doing it. I'm also glad for the controversy.

It makes the right wing look even dumper than they already did. A lot of kids with right wing parents will want to see it for the simple reason that their parents don't want them to.

[Jennicut]

55. Eh, George H. W. Bush and Reagan talked to me and kids my age in the early 90's/late 80's

I turned out fine.
Kids don't really look at politics the way we do. As I kid I thought Reagan was a nice old man that just seemed out of it at times. :rofl:

[Mari333]

58. oh dear

WONT SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN



actually i doubt that many kids will care one way or the other. adults telling you to do a good job, blah blah blah. kids have a tendency to sort of filter out adults speaking to them.
maybe obama can tell them to do well in school so they can work at mcdonalds someday..which is pretty much the only jobs that will be left when those kids are adults, except for truck stop hookers and shoeshiners.

[SammyWinstonJack]

66. .

:spray: :thumbsup: Yeah, stay in school, work hard and the reward will be a McDonald job. Great inspiration there, eh? :evilgrin:

[graywarrior]

59. If JFK had been able to address my school when I was a kid, I would have LOVED it.

This is a good opportunity for kids and the right thing to do. Everyone is so anal and uptight about anything this guy does. He has kids and probably believes that every child should have the same motivation that his own does.

[BuyingThyme]

63. Do you know of any politician with kids who doesn't think the same way?

Should Tom Delay do an event next? I suspect it will be John Boner.

[graywarrior]

65. But Obama is PRESIDENT.

[BuyingThyme]

67. Why should a president be different from any other elected official?

Is there something in his job description that makes you think he's supposed to a part of the curriculum?

[graywarrior]

68. I've never read his job description.

I just don't see what the problem is with him talking to kids as an example of someone who worked hard in school and became president. Kids need to identify with that. We have enough bad ass athletes and military types that share their experience. Why not a president?

[BuyingThyme]

79. I have no problem with him going to schools and talking to kids.

I just don't like the 1984 component of having him broadcast directly into schools.

[graywarrior]

94. I get your point.

I'll ponder on that.

[graywarrior]

132. I've pondered it, and I still think he should do it.

[Horse with no Name]

60. Wow. Just Wow.

:crazy:

[truebrit71]

69. x 2

:crazy: :crazy:

[bunkerbuster1]

70. I'd support it just to piss off conservatives.

But if it pisses off concern trolls as well, that's just a bonus.

[billh58]

71. Government-paid teachers use their

"authority" every school day to lecture to "captive audiences" -- it's called the Public Education System. President Obama has been invited to speak at several schools, and has delivered non-political bits of wisdom. President Obama has been a teacher. President Obama is a positive role model to millions of school children, as have been other US Presidents throughout our history.

It is we "adults" who inject racism, political bias, and illogical objections into a perfectly innocuous situation like this one. Children, and young adults, are perfectly capable of listening to a famous individual speak, and questioning what they do not understand, or disagreeing with that which they do understand. Why deprive them of the opportunity to learn and grow?

Would people have the same objections if someone like Buzz Aldrin, First Lady Michelle Obama, or Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan, were scheduled to deliver an address to the nation's school children? Or, is it just the idea of anyone addressing our school children that is bad? From another angle, is the idea of school "assemblies" featuring guest speakers part of a sinister plot to "indoctrinate" our children?

Adults is soooooo stoopid...;-)

[LanternWaste]

73. Specifically why?

"No U.S. president should use his or her position to establish a one-way communication conduit to public schools."

Specifically why? Based on what objective measure? What is the precedent for or against?

If the government is the de-facto supervisor of public education, what is the argument for dis-allowing one of many varied ways to further that supervision which concurrently will verbally reinforce the fundamental agenda of public education?

[BuyingThyme]

85. Barack Obama is not the government.

And schools should be run by the people who run the schools.

This is arrogance to the nth degree and it's not going to play well for Barack Obama in the long run.

[LanternWaste]

93. But this is not an attempt to "run the school", is it?

But this is not an attempt to "run the school", is it? As far as I can see, it's merely vocalizing and underscoring a primary responsibility of the students.

And I really don't see how that particular message can be construed as arrogance... :shrug:

[Posteritatis]

97. BT used the term "ultra-authoritarianism" to describe this a few posts up

There's an unoccupied rocker there somewhere.

[BuyingThyme]

107. Can you give me an example of something more authoritarian than

a head of state unilaterally deciding to broadcast directly into children's classrooms?

I'll give you a week to come up with an example.

[Posteritatis]

113. The Cheka. Next question. (nt)

[Ignis]

136. Winner! (nt)

[BuyingThyme]

149. Did they issue statements to school children?

[Posteritatis]

164. I think disappearing school children just might be a little worse. (nt)

[LanternWaste]

125. I'm afraid I reject the premise...

I'm afraid I reject the premise...

I simply don't see the head of state re-iterating the fundamental mission of both students and schools as authoritarian. Maybe we go by different definitions of the word, or maybe you broaden the valid definition so much as to include the re-iteration and reminders of what education is.

[BuyingThyme]

157. I see it as authoritarian in a 1984 sense.

I see the head of government where he doesn't belong.

[Generic Brad]

215. You really should read "1984" again

He's telling them to set personal goals, study hard, and do their best. I recently re-read "1984" and Big Brother did not do that to the students.

Now, if President Obama were asking children to notify the state if they suspected their parents or neighbors were guilty of thoughtcrime, then I would agree that you have a valid point. But that is not what is happening by any leap of the imagination.

[Posteritatis]

220. Weren't there signs in some subways a few years ago to that effect?

And yet this speech is foulest evil... it's frightening how quickly people forget what, y'know, actually happened in the US over the last few years, to the point where they lose any context and start decrying a simple speech as the worst thing ever.

[Caliman73]

140. No need for a week.

A head of state deciding to outlaw all political parties except his own. A head of state deciding who his successor will be. A head of state creating protest zones and directing the authorities to detain peaceful protesters for wearing t-shirts. A head of state suspending habeus corpus.

All of these are more authoritarian than a President deciding that it might inspire children to have the first minority President, elected by the largest electoral and popular majority in about 20 years, address them about what studying hard and having goals for themselves might lead to in the future.

When I was in the 7th grade we saw Reagan talk about the Challenger Disaster at school and when I was a junior there was George H W Bush's speech about drugs which were both shown in school. I saw both and did not feel any draw to republicanism. I did not see it as the evil State trying to brainwash me. It was the leader of the nation trying to inform, console, and inspire. That is what President Obama will be doing with his speech.

[Critters2]

144. I strongly suspect that a big part of the difference is that those presidents were white.

Just guessin'.

[Caliman73]

181. Ladies and gentlemen...I think we have a WINNER!!!

ding ding ding...

[BuyingThyme]

158. I disagree.

Those things may be more atrocious, but I see Obama's move as more authoritarian. Maybe it's just me.

[Posteritatis]

165. It is. Read a book or two about some countries that are *actually* authoritarian.

You have no perspective and, somehow, even less of a clue about what you're talking about.

Not, of course, that you'll ever realize that, if you think the All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage is somehow more benign than Obama making a statement to schoolchildren.

But you'd never even heard of them before I typed that sentence out, did you? If you did, after all, you wouldn't be engaging in this sort of ridiculous, insane hyperbole.

[BuyingThyme]

187. I never said anything about any countries being authoritarian.

Don't you understand that you're not a good liar? Why do you do things like this?

[Posteritatis]

209. No, you simply don't believe that any of them have ever been worse than this

That's the only reason you'd ask a question so spectacularly stupid as "give me an example of something more authoritarian than this."

If you believe Obama's currently the nadir of depravity as such things go - which you do, or you wouldn't throw out a challenge like that with a week-long deadline! - all I can say is that you need to at least pretend to educate yourself, because you haven't done so at all.

[Caliman73]

175. I think it is just you

More atrocious, but not more authoritarian? I do no theenk tha wourd means wha you theenk it means

Authoritarian:

1. favoring complete obedience or subjection to authority as opposed to individual freedom: authoritarian principles; authoritarian attitudes.
2. of or pertaining to a governmental or political system, principle, or practice in which individual freedom is held as completely subordinate to the power or authority of the state, centered either in one person or a small group that is not constitutionally accountable to the people.
3. exercising complete or almost complete control over the will of another or of others: an authoritarian parent

So you are saying (with a straight face) that a President unilaterally abolishing all political parties so as to consolidate all power into the hands of his government is less authoritarian than a President giving a speech?

You think (seriously) that a President picking and installing his successor into office so to consolidate all power in the government onto himself is less authoritarian than a President making a speech which will be broadcast by a free press?

A President suspending the fundamental right of individuals against imprisonment without due process is less authoritarian than a speech?

One last thing. What is the penalty for not listening to the President's speech? Will people be punished for not watching? Will children be expelled for not attending and parents jailed for keeping their children home?

[BuyingThyme]

188. I understand the word very well.

You can't understand the word because you're not even capable of understanding the concept.

[Caliman73]

222. Ok there champ

Since you seem to know so much, about authoritarianism explain yourself. How is a speech more authoritarian than the examples I gave. If you do not answer then it will be clear that you don't know.

[girl gone mad]

200. It is just you.

pretty much.

[BuyingThyme]

100. It's arrogant for him to decide on his own that this is his prerogative.

It's not.

(And you're the one who said that the government is the de-facto supervisor of public education while equating Obama with said government.)

[LanternWaste]

127. Precisely how is the re-iteration

Precisely how is the re-iteration of the fundamental mission of education being construed as arrogant?

[BuyingThyme]

159. This has nothing to do with what he says.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

118. The whole government?

No. Just a third of it.

Burns you up inside, doesn't it?

[Stevenmarc]

75. Yeah FDR's fireside chats were a crappy idea too..... geeez

[BuyingThyme]

81. If Obama wants to do that I'm fine with it.

[undeterred]

78. No it isn't.

If a president had done this when I was a child I would have been thrilled. Of course they didn't have television in the schools back then.

[BuyingThyme]

82. Nor did they have the resources to blow on production and study guides.

[frogmarch]

84. It's a fine idea!

I wish that he'd include in his talk something about how it's good to try to get along with others, but that with some issues it's wrong to give in to those who disagree with you when you know your way is the right way and that their way would cause harm.

[gateley]

92. When I was a kid, lo, those many years ago, it would have been been just fine

and it should be today, too. The POTUS is going to give an encouraging, inspirational message to our kids about the importance of a good education. I think it's admirable and don't consider it political at all.

[Enrique]

99. "establishing a one-way communication conduit to public schools"

wtf?

If Obama gives a speech at the Chamber of Commerce, is he establishing a one-way conduit to the Chamber?

[BuyingThyme]

103. Yeah, probably.

But who cares.

[ecstatic]

106. This is really getting out of hand...

I mean, I expected it somewhat from Republicans... This is just too much.

[BuyingThyme]

110. Republicans would have been fine with the Chimp broadcasting daily terror alerts into schools.

Democrats tend to have a different standard for their guy, but perhaps not a very productive one.

[11 Bravo]

111. So you equate a bogus terror alert with a message to school kids to work hard and stay in school?

Hopeless.

[Posteritatis]

116. BT thinks there is literally nothing more "authoritarian" than this

That level of delusion isn't possible to argue with, naturally, and is proof of an extraordinarily sheltered life.

[LAGC]

123. You have to admit, there is a certain amount of propaganda value at play here.

As long as the President doesn't use his "bully pulpit" to inject politics into it though, I don't really see the harm.

[Posteritatis]

124. I'd say there's a propaganda *potential*

There's a definite distinction there, and I can't really comment beyond that on the content of any such address, since, well, we don't know what he's saying yet. I'm reasonably sure that he's not going to call for mass dropouts or for people to harvest the blood of teachers they don't like to distribute it evenly among community hemophiliacs because Marx wants us to or something, but beyond that I'll wait and see what's going to be said. If he turns it into a political stump speech, he'll get slagged by both sides and damn well deserve it, but if he doesn't...

Me, I'm looking at several prior presidents who didn't go a fraction as far in communicating regularly to the population what they're up as this guy has since the election, and I'm thinking that this kind of thing is pretty neat.

[LAGC]

130. It will be interesting to see what he actually says.

I hope its a message of inspiration...

[BuyingThyme]

145. So when I used the word DIFFERENT, you saw the word EQUAL?

That's a whole lot of dishonesty you've got goin' there.

[Enrique]

114. plenty of credible criticism of Obama out there from progressives

does any other progressive share your concern about his speech to kids?

Ralph Nader, Paul Krugman, Glenn Greenwald, the folks at Z magazine and Counterpunch, Cenk from the Young Turks, etc. Any of them have any problem with Obama speaking to kids?

[BuyingThyme]

146. I have no idea.

Why would I care?

[CocoaBeachCoco]

228. isn't it!

[noamnety]

115. I am in the minority that agrees with you.

1) People here keep saying it's fine, Bush I did it. They've forgotten that when Bush I did it, the democratic leadership spoke out against it and called it free political advertising for the president. We have a double standard. When republicans do it we view it as political and oppose it. When Obama does it, it's totally different, though. With our short spans of attention, we can't imagine we'd ever have a problem with a republican doing this - never mind that the last time they did, we did.

2) The lack of notice/lack of planning has put many districts in a bind. Many schools (ours at least) spend a lot of time and money carefully orchestrating the first day(s) of school. Anyone who's worked in a school knows also that the last couple days before school opens are a frantic chaotic nightmare as enrollment is still changing, schedules haven't all been printed yet, we have a thousand loose ends that have to happen. Dumping last minute reworking of guest speakers, schedules, having to add a whole extra layer of work in the last 8-16 business hours before the doors open is a massive headache.

3) The timing of this has put principals in a miserable position, with half the parents opposing their actions no matter what they decide to do. Instead of allowing schools to set a positive tone for the opening of the school year, it's guaranteed that the school year will begin in an atmosphere of animosity no matter whether they show or don't show the video live. That's sort of become the norm, top down decisions are imposed on schools without our input, without us being able to say "hold up, there are unintended consequences to your actions, no matter how good your intentions were." It's how merit pay will be forced on us, it's how NCLB has been handled, it's how all the testing requirements are thrust on us.

4) The controversy and lack of time for people to adjust to it means that instead of helping kids to focus on education, this has become a distraction, people are threatening to pull their kids out of school for the day rather than taking to heart the message that being in school is important, and everyone is more focused now on the controversy it's created than on education itself.

[Enrique]

120. those reasons make sense to me

they sound like legitimate beefs.

I still don't understand the OP's objections, they sound as phony as the republicans' objections.

[noamnety]

121. The OP's objections

sound very much like the objections democrats had last time this happened - I think the OP's restating what gephart said in 91 (referenced in my first point).

[Enrique]

122. I'd have to see what the dems' reaction was

it's possible their reaction was bogus, but I don't remember it. Do you have a link?

[dolphindance]

184. But back then, were parents threatening to pull kids out because of this?

It's straight up racism and you know it.

[Telly Savalas]

221. I'm not buying it.

1. Such criticism was stupid if/when it was directed at GHW Bush, and it's stupid now. A prime-time presidential address on national TV is free political advertising, since a large chunk of its viewing audience are voters. In contrast, a speech directed at them is pretty hard to regard as a political advertisement since third graders can't vote.

2. Most schools will already be in their third or fourth week by the point of the speech. A classroom would have to be pretty inflexible if it can't adapt to this.

3. Half of parents opposing the actions? Nah. Only about 10-15% of the population are so bananas that they think "work hard, stay in school" comes from Das Kapital. I don't advocate letting extremist idiots hold this nation hostage.

4. The people making this a "contoversy" are the same people who think teaching science in the classroom is controversial. If these people don't want to expose their children to the controversial message of "work hard, stay in school", then they are welcome to have their kids accrue an absence for the semester. Parents who want their kids to learn will be unaffected by it. There's no need for the school to address any perceived controversy.

[noamnety]

226. By law

the kids here can't start school before labor day - so it's the very first day of school for most kids in our state, which is dismal timing, as much work goes into planning the smooth operation of that day.

At my school, most of the kids don't report until two days after his speech. We have a small group on Tuesday doing workshops run by outside consultants who were booked way back in the spring, equipment for their orientation was booked and rented way in advance.

One year half our school was on an out of town field trip during this week.

If our plans for a given day are not completely flexible, maybe that's a good thing - it's a sign we're doing something meaningful, not just the same old thing expendable thing day after day. I find it somewhat insulting to the profession that the assumption is that it's no big deal to cancel whatever we were doing with the kids with no notice, it couldn't have been all that important.

[Javaman]

119. I understand your point, but I politely disagree. nt

[Doctor_J]

126. God, you really need help

Go give your picture of Beck a kiss and then jump off a building.

[BuyingThyme]

151. You have an interesting way of lying.

You believe that people are stupid enough to believe that just because two people are against something, they hold the same position. But what you don't understand is that most people are much smarter than you.

[krabigirl]

176. Maybe you are on the wrong website?

[barbiegeek]

128. Your wrong

[treestar]

129. I think it's a great idea and should start a tradition

There is a nonpolitical aspect to the Presidency, you know.

[BuyingThyme]

153. Actually, no, there isn't.

[treestar]

182. Um, whatever you say

I guess when the musicians come there, for example, it's "political?" Only leftist violinists are welcome at the WH these days! I guess Pable Casals was a Democrat?

[BuyingThyme]

191. You switched from the President to musicians.

I don't fall for this kind of childish nonsense. Come up with something better.

[Ken Burch]

131. You're forgetting the fact that, if the president were to back out of the speech now

the talk-radio crazies and the school censors would win. We can't let them have a victory on this.

[BuyingThyme]

155. Yes, there's no stopping him.

But hopefully he (and later presidents) will realize that this is just not a good idea.

[MarjorieG]

133. Once getting plaudits for this leadership, now stop because the right says so.

They are trying to get people tired of the vitriol and conflict, so we just vote GOP and all will be calm and orderly. Make it appear that the president is not as popular, and definitely make him less popular.

[CBGLuthier]

139. My but somebody needs some attention

Hope it was worth it.

[BuyingThyme]

150. Projection.

[Hekate]

141. Actually, I think it's a brilliant idea. Why let the RW have all the access? Besides...

What EVER in the world gave you or anyone else the notion that the POTUS was going to do anything but tell the kids what their own fathers should be telling them?

• Work hard in school
• Do all your homework
• Respect your teachers
• Respect each other
• and so on and so forth in that vein

Crap, I could write this thing myself. Even George Frickin' Bush could deliver a First Day of School speech like that and not arouse my ire.

Not so much you personally, but what the hell is wrong with people that they think this is a bad idea?

Hekate

[BuyingThyme]

199. The letter he sent saying what he was going to do was a pretty

good clue as to what he had planned on doing. You should read it.

[TexasObserver]

147. I'll be the one to say it: Unrecommend.

[rucky]

152. I think Charles Barkley should give the speech, instead.

Kids need role models, ya know.

[gulliver]

160. Every idea is really bad.

It just depends on your idea of really and bad.

[rucky]

163. oops...dupe

not sure how that one happened

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

172. I have no problem with his addressing the students But I think the timing is off.

This could be done in the future and not during the highly charged atmosphere surrounding the health reform debate.

[krabigirl]

173. You're nuts.

[BuyingThyme]

198. Brilliant.

Taking a break from brain surgery? Or recovering?

[quiller4]

174. Presidents have been giving addresses to children for generations.

I see no problem with Obama's speech. When I first started school, we have a back to school letter from Ike that was read in all classes. Later we had a letter from President Kennedy about physical fitness. Reagan delivered a TV address to children. This isn't anything new.

[BuyingThyme]

197. I noticed that a lot of you are comparing this to things that are not at all comparable.

[Aramchek]

178. you are a fool

Obama is the President
He is the Chief Superintendent of all Public Schools
He can speak to America's children any time he so chooses.

But thanks for letting us know which side of this debate you fall on.
At least we know not to take your posts seriously now...

[BuyingThyme]

196. Everybody please read Aramchek's post.

[Moochy]

179. Spoken like a Spineless Jellyfish er i mean Democrat n/t

[RagAss]

180. This attitude is exactly why whenever we are in power we end up with a handful of shit !

[BuyingThyme]

195. Mine or theirs?

[dolphindance]

183. You called him aarogant for doing this in one of your replies. Unrecommended.

Your tone is becoming no different from the racists who object to this.

[BuyingThyme]

193. You just compared liberalism to racism.

Nicely done.

[ctaylors6]

185. I don't think it's a bad idea, but I think it was handled little badly by the administration

When it was first announced, one of the activities was to "Write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president. These would be collected and redistributed at an appropriate later date by the teacher to make students accountable to their goals." See link to original "Menu of Classroom Activities": http://www.docstoc.com/docs/10582301/President-Obama

I'd like to think that if Bush had announced an address to students I'd have been more open-minded that these parents protesting now. But realistically I think I would have had a fit if my children's teachers had even considered asking them to write letters like that. I also think they could have released a draft of the speech when the sputtering started. I think once everyone sees the speech on Monday, the protests are going to seem petty.

Frankly, the whole thing has struck me in a similar way that the administration has handled healthcare. It seems like almost everyone in Congress (as well as Obama) has made healthcare reform so much more complicated than it needed to be to help tens of millions of people. DU is probably the most informed population I know, and I've seen many posts asking questions about what Congress was actually proposing, about what certain proposals mean, about ways the reform could have been much more simple and more clearly presented. I mean, Medicare for all, or even more simple, Medicare THIS YEAR for 10-20 million people who can't afford any kind of insurance in any kind of exchange. I don't know. Maybe I'm just too frustrated by the whole thing.

[Hippo_Tron]

186. Obama won, McCain lost get over it...

The President is the nation's chief citizen, chief executive, and commander in chief and in these roles he gets to make speeches with free air time whether you voted for him or not. And yes making these speeches does look good politically. It's one of the perks of being in power.

[BuyingThyme]

194. Boy, lots of smart people here.

[Pangolin2]

204. Chief citizen? What is that, exactly, I never heard of it.

:shrug:

[Motown_Johnny]

190. It may be a blessing in disguise, clearly only the nut cases can react

the way they have to this speech

"Middle America" will see that there are people who will attack our President no matter what he does. This could help us cut out the RWers from legislation like Health Care Reform or Cap and Trade because we can point out that they will attack no matter what.

[Pangolin2]

203. Not a bad idea but not really a good one either. I'm surprised they didn't anticipate the craziness

Sometimes I think Obama's advisors are not the brightest bulbs in the string. The thing is, they should have learned from the birther stuff and not given the goofballs something to bitch about.

[Lorien]

206. Learn your history. nt

[Thothmes]

211. Not a bad idea. but IMO that his speech is directed

at the wrong audience. Exhort the parents to carry out their responsibilities. They are the most importent aspect of a childs education. Not some 20 minute plaver directed at 3re graders to study hard. This is just my opinion on this subject.

[opihimoimoi]

212. Nah...thats cynical....ITS A DAMN GOOD IDEA....ITS A NEW WORLD OUT HERE

Never mind listening to nitters

[The Gunslinger]

216. Why not

Why can't a president, any president address the youth of America and tell them to work hard and study. I don't get it.

[rd_kent]

217. I'll be the one to say it" Not everyone should be able to give an opinion

like yours to start a thread that will obviously be flamebait.

[rd_kent]

219. I'll be the one to say it: Not everyone should be able

to give an opinion like yours to start a thread that will obviously be flamebait.

[DefenseLawyer]

223. Hammer, screwdriver, crescent wrench, you n/t

[U4ikLefty]

227. lol!!! (nt)

[chknltl]

225. I recall hearing President Kennedy speaking to us children...

No, he wasn't at our school but I remember him speaking to us over our loudspeaker. I may have been in 2nd or 3rd grade. He challenged us to be more physically fit, he shared with us his ideas regarding a physical fitness program and awards we could earn. I recall how very thrilled I was that THE President of The United States was speaking directly to us children, I felt so damned important that day! Try as I may. I never could pass any of those physical tests, (I never was the athletic type), but President Kennedy sure inspired me to try! (In hindsight, I don't know if it was an actual live broadcast, for all I know it may have only been a recorded message-it sure felt live at the time!)

I dunno maybe today's kids are different, maybe they are too jaded to be as easily impressed as I was...then again maybe not. BuyingThynme, I think I am going to disagree with you on this. I'd like to think the children of today could benefit from the same experience I once had. Regardless of the topic, I'd like the kids of today to have that same feeling of importance I once felt, to know that THE President of the United States felt that 'i' was worthy of being talked to.

No flames from me, just disagreeing with you on this one.
:pals: