so is it possible we may be required to have health ins. w/o a PO?

[G_j]

if they give up the public option, and keep the part that requires all Americans to have insurance,

wouldn't that mean a whole lot of new business for the private companies whose greed helped get us in this mess?

help me out

[villager]

1. and if so, what will the coordinated massive civil disobedience be to such "reform?"

n/t

[G_j]

2. the insurance companies would love it

obviously

[kenny blankenship]

15. Why keep it civil?

[Codeine]

17. None.

Most people just honestly don't seem to give a fuck. :(

[Blasphemer]

25. I don't know about coordinated but I would be opting out... nt

[Chemisse]

3. I really think that we need to get something

If we can't get the PO, then let's get the other reform. We can always build on that next year or the year after.

It is better than no reform at all, and I think it could open the door to further reform when things simmer down a bit. It could be gradual, but at least we would move forward.

[Fumesucker]

4. "I can envision a day when you will have to show proof of insurance at the job interview".

-Hillary Clinton during the 2008 primaries..

Hillary isn't psychic, this is where we are heading.

If you don't have a job, how do you get insurance?

If you don't have insurance, how do you get a job?

[bluethruandthru]

9. I disagree.

Passing some crap that forces people to buy insurance from insurance companies...and giving subsidies (our tax dollars) to those who can't afford it, is just crazy. Why should we subsidize insurance companies??
That is not reform...that's a great big giveaway to the insurance companies that will cost this country a fortune.
I have no problem subsidizing health care for those who can't afford it...through a public option...NOT through an insurance company.
I want my tax dollars to pay for health CARE...not health INSURANCE.

[G_j]

13. that is the distinction

that says it all.
health CARE or health INSURANCE

[green917]

27. Well Said!!

I couldn't agree with you more!

[demodonkey]

35. WE WON, DAMMIT! Why oh why are we letting these corporate-backed screamers...

...STEAL the 2008 election after the fact??

[bluethruandthru]

38. That's exactly what they're doing.

And our spineless party is letting them!

[Laelth]

5. That's exactly what it will mean, and that's exactly what insurance companies want.

That may be exactly what we get, too, and if it is, the Democratic party can kiss its left wing good-bye.

:dem:

-Laelth

[bobbolink]

6. It will also kiss independents goodbye.

But waaay too many of them are too shortsighted to see that.

Or their full pockets have obscured their view.

[dgibby]

7. I think that may very well be the trade off for eliminating pre-existing conditions.

I worry that if we do get a public option, it'll be so watered down, it'll look like a bowl of stone soup!

[Sebastian Doyle]

8. It will never be tolerated

If people could afford to buy insurance, there wouldn't be 50 million uninsured, would there?

FUCK RomneyHillaryCare, and FUCK anyone who thinks that's a "solution"

[Codeine]

18. Of course it will be tolerated.

We tolerated this shit for the last several decades, why would anyone wake up now?

[lovepg]

28. Jim Morrison had it right, Your all slaves and I think you LIKE IT!

Boy out of the mouth of drunken rock stars hey?

[excess_3]

10. you will have to have an insurance card to get a drivers license,,,

bank account, passport, debit/credit card.

things are going to get tough.
Health insurance companies play for keeps.

[Lex]

20. that won't work without a public option

nt

[rucky]

11. or else what?

it'll never happen. even if they try to mandate, they could never enforce it, unless they're prepared to let sick people die.

[G_j]

14. then when uninsured people people are still showing up at the ER

what will they do?

[Horse with no Name]

16. Arrest them. n/t

[Fumesucker]

30. That happens already..

So they obviously are prepared to let sick people die.

They will enforce it by requiring proof of insurance before you can legally get a job.

I foresee a large expansion of the underground labor force.

[provis99]

12. if they require me by law to have private health insurance,

I will just tell them I guess they'll have to put me in prison. At least I can get prison health care.

[demodonkey]

34. Hell Yeah!

And the publicly-paid prison health care is better than the private corporate brand, seriously.

[Lex]

19. quite simply, people can't afford it and won't do it

not at the current prices

it would be supremely unworkable out of the gate

[laughingliberal]

21. As it stands now the bills voted out of committee

do mandate that we must buy insurance. Those who are deemed poor enough will get some help with the premiums. Others, who do not purchase insurance, will pay a fine of 2.5% of their income. I just love that-pay a fine and still not have any access to health care.

[G_j]

23. what if they have no income?

this, when unemployment is growing.
I suppose they would take 2.5% out of people's unemployment checks., until they run out.

fining poor people would be a truly repugnant approach.

[demodonkey]

32. 2.5% of zero is ZERO! nt

[laughingliberal]

36. There is an answer to this

People who are truly poor qualify for Medicaid and will be insured that way. Then the bills out of committee, so far, provide a government subsidy to those making 400% of the poverty level. Senate Finance looks to lower that to people making 300% of poverty level. This is some help but 300% of the poverty level is less than 34,000 for a couple. My husband and I were paying for insurance after I lost my job and the premium was $1200. I am not sure I see how a couple making $34,000 a year is supposed to be able to pay $14,400 a year for their health insurance.

[G_j]

40. thanks for these details

that would leave $20,000 a couple would need food stamps to attempt to survive on that in most places, then that's another issue also.

[Chemisse]

29. I am vehemently opposed to mandated health insurance

Just the thought of it makes me livid.

[madville]

22. Why is everybody stressing? It's all been decided

All of this crap is just show at this point. The deals have already been made and everyone knows their role. The insurance companies are licking their chops at all the money headed their way.

[Joe Bacon]

24. Folks, welcome to THE SNOWE JOB

Brought to you by Olympia Snowe and the others in the Gang of Six

No public option
Mandated coverage
Insurance Companies keep 35¢ of every dollar
Companies allowed to rate disabled people to pay up to 5 times the policy amount compared to others
Bottom Line--high deductible policies that pay doodley squat.

[laughingliberal]

37. I also believe we will see insurance companies allowed to charge

older people at the 5 times rate, also. You know, people like me who are over 50 but not old enough for Medicare yet.

I would also not be surprised to see the employer mandate scrapped, either. The Blue Dogs managed to get companies with payrolls of under $500,000 exempted which means it affects very few companies who are not already providing insurance.

[McCamy Taylor]

26. Exactly. Healthcare reform has been hijacked. This is a 911 emergency.

I just wrote a journal about what the medical industries players are trying to accomplish in Congress under guise of fixing our health care system.

When people are fighting over 15% of the GNP, it gets ugly

[JDPriestly]

31. You got it!

That is why we must have a public option! It is the only way to finance universal health care. The cost increases for Medicare and the VA have been much lower than those for the private insurance coverage of government employees including the House and Senate. That is the best argument for a robust public option. My representative mentioned it Wednesday evening in his telephonic town hall. So, Congress is aware of the financial advantage of the robust public option.

[Vinca]

33. If we're served up to big insurance on a platter,

it only helps big insurance. More corporate welfare. I'm getting very pissed.

[mmonk]

39. Pretty much.

At first, they will appear to reduce your cost by subsidies to our insurance lords. But it will be a house of cards.

[G_j]

41. I started getting real nervous

when everybody got a place at the "table" except single-payer advocates.