Time for all democrats and liberals to come to a realization

[AllentownJake]

You can't negotiate with people who are afraid that their children watching a speech by the opposition political party and the elected leader of the nation is bad for their children.

No rational discussion or negotiation can be had with people who believe that their children viewing the opposition is bad for them.

[virgogal]

1. Would you have felt the same way a year ago? Just askin'.

[AllentownJake]

3. Yes

I don't have children, but I would encourage them to watch a speech from the President of the United States.

If after they speech they asked me what I thought, I'd tell them.

If George W. Bush told my kids getting an education was important...well I would tell my kids I agree with the President of the United States on this issue.

[dflprincess]

6. I stopped listening to Bush's speeches

mostly because I was concerned about my blood pressure.

I wouldn't have told my nieces and nephews not to listen to him but I probably would have suggested it was a waste of their time.

[AllentownJake]

7. George W. Bush

For worse was President. I watched everyone of his speeches. Hated it, but he was fucking President.

[mindwalker_i]

19. I stopped watching Bush's speeches for a similar reason

He reminds me of a school bully, just in the way he talks and his demeanor. Being a complete geek since I was very oung, I had a really bad reaction to it. Listening to him made me sick.

[virgogal]

14. Good for you. I had 6 kids,all middle aged now ,and let them read

watch,and listen to just about anything.

How else would they learn to separate the wheat from the chaff?

[kenfrequed]

51. I read them...

I found it far easier to just read through them. Far less distracting that way and I could more easily duck and weave around the diversion of his poor language and strike more at the heart of the terrible policy I saw.

[Bobbieo]

4. The thread is about the ability to negotiate with people not their

likes or dislikes.

[AllentownJake]

5. You can't negotiate with people who think a non-partisan speech

by the President of the United States is a threat to their children.

This is the type of behavior of people who believe they are in a war.

[Pangolin2]

18. I suggest you speak with some soldiers in Afghanistan regarding beliefs we're in a war.

:eyes:

[AllentownJake]

20. I think I was implying

these people believe that they are at war with the President of the United States. I fully believe Osama Bin Laden forbids his children from watchin our President's speeches as well.

[Pangolin2]

24. Well, your implication did not lead to the inference you apparently expected.

As to Osama, if you think he's alive and dictating TV watching to his kids, that's pretty er, interesting. Are in the camp that subscribes to the idea that every criticism of Prez Obama is rooted in racism? It's a fairly popular notion around here, as I'm discovering.

[AllentownJake]

45. If you search my posts

You'll see I'm a little hard on the President, I was also a big part of his local campaign as a volunteer leader.

Some people live in a black and white world. I don't.

[alstephenson]

57. Oh, man. You're back???

Please go away.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

26. I know some Marines in Afghanistant,

and some did time in Iraq, and they think both these capers are total bullshit.

They're not stupid, they're just being used as pawns, and they resent the hell out of it. They're no more "defending America" than we are, communicating on this message board. They're not hunting the Taliban, because they can't FIND the fucking Taliban. And they're all smart enough to know that history tells a very simple story - any country that goes into Afghanistan is going to get its united ass handed to it by the Afghanis, who do not like being invaded and who are ferocious and relentless fighters.

Seems like everyone learned this lesson except the United States, and my Marine friends are furious with this crap.

One was killed last month. His wife is pregnant with their first children, twin girls. His funeral was the same day as Ted Kennedy's, at Arlington........................

[Pangolin2]

29. Exactly...however the poster apparently meant something else.

I still await some rational explanation of just why we needed to have 3500 troops die in Iraq and more every day in Afghanistan...especially after how the Soviets finally realized they couldn't defeat them after 15 years...and they were right next door. :grr:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

31. Rational?

Well, when you consider the neocons' plan to destabilize the Middle East, take over the Iraqi oil fields, and somehow, by removing the only secular buffer between Iran and the rest of the Middle East, establish a foothold for democracy in a place not really known for embracing the concept of a representative republic :sarcasm:, that's about as much rationality as you can get out of it. It's not just insane, it's also homicidal.

The poster surely wasn't defending anything that's happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think maybe you gave his words a slightly incorrect read. He's advocating exactly what we're advocating, as I read his words......................................

[Pangolin2]

36. Well, he replied saying he was talking about a 'war' with the President.

I took him at his word. You don't seem willing to extend him the same courtesy...but don't let me get in the way of your confusion.

[AllentownJake]

46. Exactly what courtesy am I not giving

Former President George W. Bush was President of the United States. I see no problem when he was in office giving the address that President Barack Obama is giving.

People who believe it is dangerous for their children to hear a political view point view that view point as their enemy and are existing in a state of war mentality.

The red vs. blue conflict is resembling more the Israel-Palestine conflict everday.

[alarimer]

55. Right wingers actually do believe they are at war with liberals.

They get it from all that hate speech on the radio.

[Juche]

12. Yes

I know you weren't talking to me, but if George Bush wanted to give a nonpartisan speech on the importance of something (global poverty, energy, etc), I would not have reacted badly.

George Bush giving a speech on the importance of education would be kindof lame though. Obama's education came in handy and got him where he is today, plus Obama is from a demographic (black males without fathers) who tend to do poorly with formal education. Bush got where he is because of family connections, so Bush giving a 'work hard and get an education' speech would sound pretty hollow IMO.

But if he wanted to give one, I wouldn't oppose it.

[virgogal]

15. Nice to hear.

[Bandit]

49. Remember 9-11, where was Bush*

He was in a school room reading to children. It was almost exactly the same amount of time in office as Obama has and no one from the Liberal side made a peep about him "indoctrinating" our children..This is so far out only the Republicans could come up with such garbage.

[byebyegop]

2. Last time I checked the Dems are not negotiating with Faux Noise.

Who is in turn brainwashing their loyal zombie viewers.

[Pangolin2]

8. Well, it's possible to find that kind of mindset anywhere...even here on DU

when it comes to, for example, Fox Nooz.

Heck, even a DUer who comments on something they saw there will get yelled at for even watching it!
:shrug:

[AllentownJake]

9. Fox News isn't the President

I'd have a problem with a school broadcasting an Olbermann or O'Reilley speech on the first day of school.

I'd have no problem with a George W. Bush speech on education while in office...no matter how much I did not like the man.

He was the President.

[Pangolin2]

17. Yeah, I remember how much respect W got around here.

But here is what I'm having a problem with: The claim from the OP that says

"No rational discussion or negotiation can be had with people who believe that their children viewing the opposition is bad for them."

If that IS true, it certainly works both ways.

I'm not at all happy with the goofy notion that parents shouldn't be permitted to decide what their kids are exposed to. Anybody who tries to tell me I can't determine that will get a boot up their ass.

[AllentownJake]

21. Its a speech on doing well in school and non-partisan

I do not like former President Bush. I would not object to him giving a speech to school children on the first day on the value of education.

Besides most of the objection is coming from K-6 parents.

Kids will never be able to vote for the guy unless they are in 9th grade.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

27. Your boot is in big trouble,

because the idea that any parent can dictate what their children can be exposed to in school, when it's a matter of the President of the United States making a speech to the children about education, is laughable, and makes you as inane and power-mad as those rightwingnut fundies who are squawking about this speech simply because they're bad losers who cannot abide the reality that a black man, a Democrat(!), occupies the Oval Office.

Part of an education for children involves teaching them about respecting the office of the President of the United States. Your boot goes up the ass of anyone who thinks that's a valid thing to teach kids?

Kick away, kick as hard as you can, but you're face-down because you have no viable target, and kicking at air is what stupid people do.

I'm sure you're not stupid...................

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

37. I don't see it as a "political message" -

and if you think everything that the President does - like a speech to school kids - is political, well, it's not.

This is about respecting the office of the President. I see that as an important part of their education, a beginning Civics class. You don't have to respect the man, but the office, and its history, are, I believe, important parts of the education of our young people.

Insulting me - "... you're not very bright" - and whatever this means - "You must be a real popular person around a Planned Parenthood facility" - did, I hope, make you feel better. It's unfortunate that that's all you've got.

But, then, you and Toby Keith have that macho "boot" thing going, so it was, truly, unfair of me to engage you in any kind of battle of wits when you're so obviously unarmed................................

[Pangolin2]

38. Other than taking a crap, there isn't much a President can do that isn't political.

I do respect the office (and currently I respect the holder) but I would not ever in my most fevered fling of patriotism try to tell other Americans how to teach their children in a way that conflicts with their own plans.

I leave those sorts of agendas to dictators and fascists.

[AllentownJake]

47. When I was in grade school

Kids got the Presidential good attendence award and the Presidential fitness thing with a nice certificate from the President of the United States.

Was that a political message?

[alstephenson]

59. They don't even teach Civics in school anymore.

At least here in Arizona, the kids probably don't even know what the office of the President of the United States is. I couldn't agree more with you, TLB. These people are so ignorant - too bad for their kids. They will grow up to be just as ignorant.

[drm604]

42. 7 Years?

And you only joined last month? What were you waiting for? Pizza?

[Jim Sagle]

43. Fuck off ya fuckin' freeper.

[alstephenson]

58. You remember???

You weren't even a member of DU when W was in office. Perhaps a lurker...

[Toucano]

10. It is breathtakingly saddening to me. Honestly.

What have we come to?

Where is the patriotism? The respect for the office? The sense of civic responsibility?

I've said it before. I no longer recognize the United States I grew up in. It is gone.


It seems every minute facet of daily life is now colored Red or Blue.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

28. Yes, you said it perfectly -

it's that simple.

Funny how those racist rightwingnuts are screaming about wanting their country back, because, you know, I sure as hell don't recognize this one.

It's certainly not the one I grew up in, or worked to fashion all my life, or expected to have to endure in my twilight years, but here it is, and it's a bad, bad place.

It's a sad place, too, which is hard to take..................................

[Toucano]

40. The "country back" they talk about never was.

It's a false nostalgia. They talk about the "founders" as if they knew thing one about them! They can't even name more than two!


The loss we lament is something real. It has disappeared in the last 30 years.


We own some of the blame. Sometimes we have to relax a bit and let someone go to a restaurant, for example, without it ALWAYS being a political statement, you know?

I think the pendulum will eventually swing back for us. I hope.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

41. The "country" they "want back"

is the one with a white male President.

I agree, yes, the PC nonsense gets silly and tiresome, and I've done my best to rail against its proponents, the professional Mothers Superior, the insufferable self-appointed nannies of us all. I really thought I had a bad acid flashback when Ronald Raygun was elected President. I mean, "Death Valley Days"?

But, still, so much basic stuff has changed - the most significant being how the lobbyists have risen to power in Washington, without anything able to shut them down - I don't plan on seeing much change in what's left of my life.

I'm glad I'm old...............

[alstephenson]

60. I hear ya, Toucano.

Between this and the health care reform opposition, I had a major meltdown last night. I cried myself to sleep.

[sam sarrha]

11. we must fight it, it is mind control and it works and is contagious..

[Uzybone]

13. some on DU are suspicious of the speech too, its not just the lunatics on the right

Sometimes I think the country is doomed. We have been given a brief respite from damnation, but the critical mass of idiocy and selfishness in this country has us on a sure path to destruction.

[Horse with no Name]

23. But they aren't really Democrats, Progressives, or Liberals

My guess is that they are paid shills or pathetic keyboard trolls.

[Echo In Light]

56. And there are unfortunately many very conservative, authoritarian-type Dems

... who apparently pick the Dem tag since they aren't fully on board w/the Right, especially re religion.

Beyond that, however, there are conservative Dems who don't identify with - and even oppose, in many instances - Leftist/progressive/liberal ideals and aims, at least to the extent that the Leftist view damns Profits Over People, and is unfavorably critical of the National $ecurity State ruse. I s'pose this sort of thing is to be expected in the transitory stages and common perceptions and illusions within an era of crumbling empire.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

30. Some DUers are suspicious of this speech?

Really?

I haven't seen any of that, but, gee, well, that's just another sad brick in the wall, I guess...........................

[drm604]

44. Not real DUers, or at least not many.

The ones who are screaming about parental rights, etc. are all or almost all trolls.

[Doctor_J]

34. There are a lot of Limbeciles in DU

and hate radio/Fox "News" addicts as well

[KelleyKramer]

16. Duh. Havent you ever heard the old expression ...

Never argue with a dumbass.

It just brings you down to their level.

And they are experts at it.

[bvar22]

22. Tell that to Barack and Rahm.

I stopped playing footsies with Republicans back in the 90s.

[Bill219]

25. I have come to the realization

The this country needs the fairness doctrine or some form of it back immediately.

The fact that we are not going to get meaningful and real healthcare reform due to Fox News and hate radio starting and spreading lies 24/7 is horrible.

In 2003 Fox News went to court and sued for the right to lie on TV and they have gone gangbusters ever since.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

33. The Fairness Doctrine got smashed

under Ronnie Raygun, as I recall.

This is what those Raygun years have brought us. It took almost thirty years, but it's succeeded, and now those neocons are bleating about how Obama and the Democrats have fucked it up.

I hate them, I really do, and that's a verb I avoid...................................

[Doctor_J]

48. Yes. The problem is that there are no repercussions for their actions

Since they are above the law, we eventually going to have to impose those actions ourselves.

[jeffbr]

35. Amen to that

This old liberal is very disappointed.

[windoe]

39. I agree we have to work around intolerance and ignorance

--remember they are trying to drive the left crazy--we need to stay strong and focused because they are afraid of our strength, underneath it all.

[progressoid]

50. Exactly. And there are more than just a few of them.

There are millions of these idiots infesting our country.

[blueworld]

52. I don't get it - I used Bush as a talking point....

I despised everything he stood for, but if he'd given speeches to be televised in the schools, I would simply have explained to my children that he was a moran & our values are different. I wouldn't have tried to prevent the POTUS from addressing them, & I wouldn't have initiated a national movement over it.

In defense of US democracy & free speech they want to establish a national gag order on the Prez. Must every tiny issue become another article of war for them? Stupid question, I know.

[Subdivisions]

53. I've been saying for quite awhile now that reconciliation and unity

are now all but impossible. This is going down a very dangerous path.

[DevonRex]

54. I agree. But we can appear to be rational and civil in the face of insanity.

In the end, though, there will be no negotiating with nuts.

[FiveGoodMen]

61. You can't reason with anyone who believes what they hear on hate radio

or at their local Megachurch.

They are completely brain-dead.

The question is: how do we stop them?