Need help with a wingnut friend of a friend. Need examples of gov't programs that are successful

[KelleyKramer]

I got one of those chain emails about healthcare, but it had so many lies I was forced to reply all response. Got into it with this guy I dont even know (friend of a friend).

He gets on the government always sucks line. He will not listen about Social Security or Medicare.

I'm thinking about coming back with police, fire dept, interstate highways...

but there have to be some more good examples.

any help would be much appreciated

Best
Kelley

on edit:

Good grief folks, this is great!

Please keep the suggestions coming

I'm going to make a list.

[Xipe Totec]

1. Manhattan Project, NASA, TVA, USPS, n/t

[DBoon]

4. Interstate highway system nt

[virgogal]

14. You beat me to it !

[ThoughtCriminal]

2. If he won't listen about Social Security and Medicare

what's the point? Any successful program is automatically disqualified from his consideration because:

LAH! LAH! LAH! LAH! CAN"T HEAR YOU!!! LAH! LAH! LAH!

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. What he said, though they do listen to one

US Army, US Navy, US Marines, US Air Force...

For some reason the armed forces do get a pass... (and don't even mention the black book projects... shhh... those never, evah enter into the discussion either)

[KelleyKramer]

26. Yes, yes, yep

Agree totally

Kinda saving that one for later

Could be a slam dunk

Been waiting 8 years to say...

"So... you hate the troops?"

oh well, that one is money in the bag, or bird in the hand

take your pick

[customerserviceguy]

29. When's the last time they actually won a war?

Except maybe Grenada? All of the examples I've seen started many years ago, it would be more useful to come up with a successful government program started within the last thirty or forty years.

And I'm stumped. Don't mention Medicare, if it weren't for third-partying of costs on to insured and uninsured patients, Medicare would have been flat broke twenty years ago.

[midnight armadillo]

3. How about winning WWII?

.

How about the FBI, NSF, NIH, NOAA, NASA, DARPA, NSA, USGS and other government agencies? How about the national labs - LLNL, LANL, SNL? Some are completely overridden by their industries, like, say, the USDA, so leave those out.

[yewberry]

6. Oh, gosh, let's see...

Head Start
Americorps/VISTA
Meals on Wheels
Medicare
Consumer Product Safety Commission
CDC
Cooperative Extension Service
Mine Safety & Health Commission
Interstate Highway System
National Biological Service
Human Genome Project
Peace Corps
National Weather Service
National Crime Information Center

[KelleyKramer]

9. National Weather service!

You gave many good ones, but the NWS is great...

Hey buddy, so you wanna have to pay some corporation to find out if its going to rain tomorrow??

I like that one the best

[TxRider]

13. Yup the national weather service is great..

The FAA does a pretty good job as well.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

19. The NTSB too.

How many airliner accident causes have gone un-determined? Talk about a world class investigative organization.

[KelleyKramer]

50. .

[DefenseLawyer]

28. No no, the tv weatherman has SuperKillerDoppler9000!

He NEVER gets his forecasts from the National Weather Service. Damn commies.

[Toucano]

7. The Army Corps of Engineers.

Rural Electrification Act.

Clean Water Act.

Occupational Safety & Health Administration

Any bridge or road he's ever driven on or over.

The Erie Canal.

Street lights.

The Federal Aviation Administration.

[Historic NY]

8. Interstate highway Act, Tennessee Valley Authority,Social Security, VA,..

http://funding-programs.idilogic.aidpage.com/funding-programs/

[tabbycat31]

10. public schools

I told a wingnut that commented on my handwriting at a townhall meeting that I learned it in my socialist public school

[LostInAnomie]

11. The military

[Roland99]

12. Right here >>>>>>>>>>

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Roland99/54

[KelleyKramer]

16. Excellent

Thank you!

[Roland99]

22. Cheers!

:toast:

[Mind_your_head]

15. Great old thread here on the subject

This should help you out, along with what others have already suggested upthread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6138293

[rwheeler31]

17. The senate has to confirm the baseball commissioner.

Not true ,just check if he listens.

[KelleyKramer]

18. Student loans for college!

hat tip to Rolands list for making me think of this.

I would love to hear this joker argue why the US government should not help Americans get a college degree.

Ahhh, YES!

[customerserviceguy]

31. Yeah, that's a roaring success

Money dumped into the educational industry, especially the fringe areas of it (think of those bogus vocational colleges that advertise on TV), that leave students unemployable, with a mountain of debt to pay and no job to pay it off with.

I guess if you work for an institution of higher education, yeah, it's a success.

[rucky]

38. It's just as bad as the subprime mortgages.

if not worse.

[customerserviceguy]

41. Agreed

Notice nobody here has suggested that Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac are examples of successful government programs? Just a few years ago, I would have said that they were.

Let's face it, the failure of those mortgage-buying institutions, which were considered sterling for the vast majority of their existence, undermines our cause of having national healthcare. It's really tough to ask for another government bureaucracy to replace the private bureaucracy in the wake of that scandal.

[customerserviceguy]

42. deleted, dupe

[MUAD_DIB]

20. Why waist your time trying to convert or reason with the crazies?

Just fuck with him until he realizes that he is being played for the fool he is.

I'll bet he doesn't bother you after that.

[KelleyKramer]

25. Yeah, you are a little right, but thats not all there is to it here..

He's not completely crazy. Not all the usual caps, miss-spelling, mangled syntax, etc etc.. that you get from a winger.

Besides, it motivated me to post here.

And there are many excellent examples on this thread.

I'm going to make a pretty damn good list out of it, to use later.

Whatever it takes to crank your motor, in my book, thats a good thing.

[MUAD_DIB]

27. You know, they really aren't worth the time.

If somebody is so out of touch after 8 years of the miscreant then they really aren't worth it and never will come around.

Good luck with it though.

[Budgies Revenge]

21. come on people...don't tell me everyone's left the big kahuna off

the list! And it's the one guaranteed to make a winger's head explode trying to refute.

The number on thing that proves the government can create something that works........

drum roll please.....

The Constitution :headbang:

[customerserviceguy]

32. That proves that the Founding Fathers

could create something that worked most of the time. The wingnuts already revere the old white men who thought the concept of "equality" was fine for white male property owners.

Try harder.

[Budgies Revenge]

36. ahhh, but that's why it's the perfect

stealth example to throw back at them.

[customerserviceguy]

37. Like I said elsewhere on this thread

Come up with something the government's started in the last thirty or forty years that just about everyone acknowledges works, and maybe you've got an argument.

It might be interesting if our Founding Fathers were to write a healthcare bill, but short of a session with a Ouija board, I'm not sure how we do that.

[whyverne]

23. You're arguing with a dining room table.

Every great country in history was the result of big government.

Ask them to name one successful country that doesn't have big government.

From Egypt to The USA to the USSR to China, all became powerful after they achieved big government.

The fact that everybody in America can drink water that doesn't have turds floating in it is because of big government.

[salguine]

24. Ask if he likes his mail delivery? His trash pickup? His police and fire protection, the

roads he drives on, the schools his kids go to, blah blah blah...

[Emit]

30. Once again, for the benefit of the government-can't-get-anything-right flock:

I AM AN AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE SHITHEEL

Once again, for the benefit of the government-can't-get-anything-right flock:

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and tTechnology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issed by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

Oh it continues...

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to ny house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it's valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic.com and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

Bring it home my man...

The only reason government doesn't work is because conservative Republican administrations defunded and/or patronage staffed them with people with ties to special business interests: to wit the last FDA, Dept of Interior and Agriculture under Bush. No one seems to have a problem with pumping over $500Bil to the Defense Department which last I hear is a socialized entity.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6310491

[DefenseLawyer]

33. How about the internet?

I do believe that was created by the government.

[KelleyKramer]

35. Ha Ha, yes, you are correct!

We all forget that dont we?

Damn good point

[customerserviceguy]

43. It was "created" by the government

in the same way that land grants were "created" for settlers in the West. DARPA scientists learned how to manipulate electricity in a way that provided for a communications medium, then they set up and enforced standards of how it was to be used, and by whom.

It's really no different than discovering that radio waves could be limited by frequency, and then licensing out parts of that spectrum to those who were willing and able to pay for it.

May I suggest that a better example is the Patent Office? It protects the intellectual rights of inventors who can then make a living off of their thought, sweat and toil to produce things that benefit the buyers of the resulting products.

[DefenseLawyer]

44. Um, DARPA is a government agency.

All of the original work that led to the internet was on military projects commissioned and paid for by the government, with much of the work being done at public universities to boot. Maybe I am missing what you are trying to say, but if you are suggesting that some "entrepreneur" created the internet or the things that eventually became the internet as a money making venture, you are mistaken.

[customerserviceguy]

46. Yeah, so was the U. S. Cavalry that stole lands from the Native Americans

to give to Euro-American settlers to create prosperous farms on. That's why I used the "land grant" example.

Agreed, DARPA stimulated the research, but without entrepreneurs, the Internet would just be a geek toy for scientists to communicate on.

[Pangolin2]

34. This isn't a specific answer, and it's pretty old but it's still a goodie

Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare
his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some
tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first
swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe
to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety
and that they work as advertised.

All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's
medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid
medical insurance -- now Joe gets it, too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs.
Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal
fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry. In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his
shampoo.

His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents
because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was
putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and
takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some
environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries and government from
polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his
government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and
transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation,
which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.


Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay,
medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy
liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's
employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.
Its noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills.


Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's
money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.
Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan
because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was
educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his
father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car
is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal
fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third
generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't
want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until-some big-government liberal
stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

Joe is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and
a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take
care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host
keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that Joe's
beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his
day. Joe agrees. "After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of
themselves, just like I have."

[LaydeeBug]

39. Tell him to quit denigrating our TROOPS, the treasonous motherfucker. nt

[Vinca]

40. I'd hate to fly without air traffic control.

[gratuitous]

45. Before Bush got his mitts on it, FEMA

Believe it or not, the Federal Emergency Management Agency used to do a very good job of assisting in natural disasters. They would coordinate with the National Weather Service, local national guard outfits, the local constabulary, and a number of other, non-governmental agencies to provide disaster relief and help people get through major dislocations in their lives.

Of course, this all came to a crashing halt under the Bush administration, which figured that if disaster relief professionals could run FEMA, then former horse show promoters could do it even better! The survivors of hurricanes Katrina and Rita might disagree, and the deceased victims might have even more to say.

So when your friend talks about how government can't run a program, tell him you agree 100%: That is, when Republicans are running the programs.

[bamacrat]

47. The Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines.

FDIC insurance, national highway system, TVA, Medicare and Medicade, welfare. Also how about the police department, fire dept. etc.

[lysosome]

48. ... "AND WHAT HAVE THE ROMANS EVER DONE FOR US?!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ
Yeah, people have been overlooking the good of public spending for a LONG time.

[blondeatlast]

49. National Park Service, Central Arizona Project, Tennessee Valley Authority.

All SPECTACULAR successes.

[SusanaMontana41]

51. Children's Health Insurance Program; National School Lunch Program

May have been suggested already by someone else. If so, I apologize. Didn't have time to read the entire thread.

edit: typo