Shhh, here is a secret.... We ELECT REPRESENTATIVES

[nadinbrzezinski]

not leaders

We also hold our representatives to their campaign promises

If you do not understand what that is, well then perhaps you need to start with the most basic of things. WE DID NOT ELECT A LEADER, but a representative

This is a Representative democracy and when our representatives do not do what we want them to do, what we vote them to do. we hold them accountable.

Now if you voted for a leader, go on... believing that leader will do what you want.

Me, I will demand they do what I voted them to do, that includes reform health care. If they don't... I will hold them accountable.. and it is high time Americans remember this.

So let me repeat it once again

We do not elect kings, we elect presidents... and we elect senators and congressmen to REPRESENT US not to lead us.

Hold on while I get the asbestos on...

Ok now go on with the flames... civics lessons usually are not liked...

[arcadian]

1. They are representatives.

It's just that they represent corporate interests, not us.

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. So true

[Tangerine LaBamba]

2. And now that everyone has been educated,

what do you propose they do?

I think people know that a vote for a candidate means you're hiring them for the job. I also think people are realistic and savvy enough to know that, in today's political reality, the money people are the ones who control what the elected representatives do, how they vote, what they truly represent.

So, what was the point of your post?

That people should vote out the legislators who don't hold to their campaign promises, who cater to their money overlords?

Good.

Then the next candidate who runs and wins starts all over again, except your district/State has lost seniority. But the game remains the same.

To think otherwise is simplistic and naive...................................

[question everything]

3. Yes, and we expect them to change their "promises" when they realize

that conditions have changed.

For example, as the White House keeps telling us - no one realized how bad the economy was getting.

Yes, we elect representatives who, once seated, are trusted to make decisions as they see fit. We do not expect them to come back to us at every turn to ask for our opinions and permissions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. They are also supposed to listen to their base

if their base is the corporations, they are doing fine by the way

Last time I checked though, it was us.

Don't worry, they will be held accountable... and many in the DLC will not like the way it will happen.

[AuntPatsy]

8. I love your posts.......you say what needs to be said in a way that makes complete sense without

sounding like a stampede of raging buffalo's which is likely of course to drown out any real voice being heard...if a voice becomes silenced by such a thunderous roar it never gets heard...ever...

its late..but I hope you get it..

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I get it, and yes it is late

:hi:

[question everything]

32. And who is their base?

I suspect that many, who were going to vote for a comprehensive reform now retract, since "their base" came to their town halls and shouted and yelled at them and told them that... "we are your constituents."

"The base" is fickle and can change its opinion with the shift of the wind.

This is why we need to elect individuals with character who say where they stand and who realize that politics is the art of compromise.

[JDPriestly]

23. If you are talking economy and thinking changing the health care initiative,

think again. The best way to boost the economy is to get a robust public option open to all Americans going asap. In this difficult time, Americans need to at least know that if things get really rough, they will still be able to see a doctor if they are sick.

There will never be a better time to enact a robust public option. It's now or never.

I've been waiting my whole life for this -- 66 years. That's how long it has been since Truman first introduced a health care bill. It's now or never on the robust public option.

[sharesunited]

5. Leadership has to be part of it. Otherwise they just perpetuate our fears, ignorance and prejudice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Read the founders on that

they will tell you that this is a REPRESENTATIVE form of government Granted, there have been some major changes

Women vote and Senators are elected not appointed, oh and blacks have civil rights but it is still a representative system, that also requires an educated population that is well informed on the issues of the age. They did not speak of leaders, in fact, they abhorred them, and they abhorred kings,

Perhaps we outgrew the logical limits of a representative system... but we still live in one. And it is our duty, the citizen, to hold them accountable...

Now if you are fine in electing a leader, then you have abdicated a good percentage of your responsibilities.

[AuntPatsy]

12. excellent response....

[JDPriestly]

24. Actually not a good response at all, Aunt Patsy.

Our representatives and senators are supposed to represent the people of the districts and states from which they are elected. You can read not just the Constitution, but also the Federalist Papers on this. At this time, far too many of them represent their donors and the wealthy in their districts and states and not the majority of voters. This is especially true on the health care reform issue. The vast majority of Americans want a strong public option. The size of the majority has decreased a bit, but it is still a big majority. Yet Congress hesitates.

Federalist Paper No. 57 explains that the reason that members of Congress, especially the House, have term limits is so that they will stay close to their people.

[WatchWhatISay]

6. But, is that the only consquence they get, that we vote them out next time?

They can do a hell of a lot of damage in the mean time. And what if the next guy also promises to do what we tell him to and then doesn't once he gets in there.

What if some entity owned practically all of them that were willing to run for office?

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Yes, your ultimate tool is to vote them out

of course also demand radical changes in the system, and be willing to fight for them, such as publicly financed elections

But your ultimate tool is to vote them out... this is the great weakness of a winner take all system and one that will require a constitutional convention to correct. Given that Jefferson said one should be done once a generation... perhaps it is time.

[bridgit]

11. We elect neither, we elect *on balance*: used car salesmen huckstering for the best deal...

That of course favors them and that is what tips the scale - hucksters

huck⋅ster

1. a retailer of small articles, esp. a peddler of fruits and vegetables; hawker.
2. a person who employs showy methods to effect a sale, win votes, etc.: the crass methods of political hucksters.
3. a cheaply mercenary person.
4. Informal. a. a persuasive and aggressive salesperson.
b. a person who works in the advertising industry, esp. one who prepares aggressive advertising for radio and television.

–verb (used with object), verb (used without object)

5. to deal, as in small articles, or to make petty bargains: to huckster fresh corn; to huckster for a living = Grassley
6. to sell or promote in an aggressive and flashy manner.

[AuntPatsy]

15. I don't tnink you understand the op at all..

[bridgit]

21. disagreed

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. They are (allegedly) public servants. Some seem to believe that it is our duty to serve them.

In a (alleged) democracy it is the responsibility of the people to hold them accountable for what they say and do....whatever party they belong to.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Exactly, but they have forgotten that

so have the voters...

[slay]

14. Actually Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia, etc elect our representatives - but I agree with your post

we can only hope those machines - which have proved totally unreliable - actually count our vote.

But you are right - they SHOULD be representing us - but they usually are not - and they often take the role of leader rather than representative unfortunately. Once they get elected, hell once they get IN CONTENTION - the big corporate money starts flowing in. What are votes compared to huge amounts of cash? I wish I knew a good solution to these problems.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. We need to be willing to fight for it

but they involve silly things like proportional representation... which the two dominant parties will fight

Public funding of elections, they will definitely not like that

I am torn on term limits since I know in Mexico they don't work or California, but if we had term limits of 20 years, a career, that might work.

Regardless, this requires a constitutional convention and those in power will fight this to the ends of the Earth, as it will end their dominance of the system

[demodonkey]

25. ES&S just bought Diebold YESTERDAY, so they pretty much OWN our elections nationwide.

Seriously.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/03/news/companies/Diebold_voting_machine/
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/09/diebold-sells

Citizens can file anti-trust complaints here:
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/contact/newcase.htm#document

Please, PLEASE pay attention NOW people, please.

And please support the election integrity organization of your choice.

[slay]

28. OMG - I did not know that - how horrible that we contract out who counts our votes in this country

and to hard core Republican companies who refuse to explain themselves, refuse to show us the source code that counts our votes, etc. Wake up America!

[LooseWilly]

16. Bravissimo.

Why is this such a difficult concept?

[wroberts189]

18. No flame.. What if they do not do what they said they would? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Vote them out, that is what they most fear

And yes, it means the other side gets in... I know that, problem with the system, but the ultimate hold them accountable is send them home packing

Most folks don't get this, complaint that congress sucks but people keep electing their guy or gal, regardless, and this is not a party issue, people just keep voting their asshole in and ranting about the asshole the next district over.

[JDPriestly]

22. We cast votes for people who call themselves our representatives.

Fact is once they have conned us into casting our votes for them, they represent big business and the influential not the people who voted for them.

Baucus receives huge amounts of money from the health insurance industry. Now are the people who give him that money living in his state? Do they vote for him? Maybe a few of them do. But Montana is not a business center. Most of the health insurance industry folks who donate to Baucus do not vote for him.

Who does Baucus represent in the Senate? The Health insurance companies, the people who donate to him, not the people who vote for him.

So, I guess you can argue that the health care insurance donors are actually the ones who elected Baucus, not the voters of Montana. But, from what I have read in the Constitution and in the Federalist Papers, that's not the way it is supposed to work. Baucus is supposed to represent his voters, not his donors.

So I love civics. You've just got it wrong.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. That is when we need to get the money out of policits

now if the Supremes rule in favor of the corporations when they meet back, kiss what I said good bye and prepare to resist a very American form of Fascism. (Which incidentally that is what you just describe and I fear you are correct on your description)

Yet the first step is to teach the addled American citizen that he\she does not vote for leaders, but representatives. Just look around this site and how many talk of them as if they were kings...

[JDPriestly]

33. If the Supremes make that decision, we need to amend the Constitution

to provide public funding for candidates and to penalize those who accept money or favors outside of the public funding.

[Life Long Dem]

26. True.

Leadership was chosen over more of the same - or a lack of leadership.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. But that is the point, I DID NOT ELECT leaders

that is unamerican in the most fundamental of levels, I elected REPRESENTATIVES

[Life Long Dem]

35. No kidding.

Palin is this you? You do mix up a mixture of garbage - I would have to say that much. You prefer to ignore Obama's leadership like in some kind of denial like the denial of "no WMD's" in Iraq.

I elected President Obama as my representative... why you don't see this as well is plainly spelled out as well. What more do you deny?

Just admit to the leadership President Obama portrays. Let's not forget Germany. And lets not let the media continue with the brainwashing before it's too late.

[mmonk]

27. That's how it is supposed to work. But it doesn't because of

the "Blue Dogs" and the "moderates". There are still people out there that think there is a big difference between these people and Republicans. They will call a solution that rewards the insurance companies and denies the people the leveling factor of a public option as a "bi-partisan" bill even if no Republican votes for it. Therein lies the lie and our conundrum as millions will still be fooled by it all (but probably less than in the past). And people will never make them pay because of the specter of another Republican Congress. The people can be weak as their party on the Democratic party side at times.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. And I tell to those people as much as it pains me

bring on the Republican congress...

Unfortunately if they do not deliver, that is what is going to happen. People are fed up, and the young who idealistically cast their votes, mark my words, will stay home. In fact this is not passed, I expect the WH to be lost too... and you know what at this point, so what? When they are doing the work of the corporations and empire, what matters the letter behind their name>

This will ONLY change when some things are forbidden, and one of them is corporate money in elections.

As far as many are concerned, we want real reform, they got these majorities, they can't do it... fuck me, I am done... and I have heard this from folks

Anectdotally I have also heard from a staffer that they are getting many calls threatening to vote green or any other third party... and you know what, that scares them in DC. The problem is, will it scare them ENOUGH to do the people's job.