*IF* Obama abandons the public option, are we allowed to be disgusted with him?

[LaydeeBug]

and I am not sure he's gonna, but *if* he does, am I allowed to say how disappointed I am? Or is that against the rules?

Here's the bottom line: If we're the DEMOCRATICunderground, shouldn't we insist on our DEMOCRATIC platform?

I've long suspected this isn't Obama vs the repigs or even the blue dogs. This is Obama having the blue dogs fight this for him, so he won't be held accountable for a lackluster performance. This is about Obama and the insurance industry, and everything else is window dressing.

Talk me off the ledge.

[saltpoint]

1. If people overuse subordinate conjunctions, will their primary clauses become

meaningless?

[LaydeeBug]

10. If I piss on your boots and tell you it's raining, will you look for a rainbow? nt

[saltpoint]

18. Nope. And just in case you are planning to piss on my boots,

we're going to double-check the bolt lock tonight, just to be on the safe side.

[LaydeeBug]

22. cool. Lock your door in case someone wants to piss on your boots, but be sure to

open your bank accts to the HMO's. They're not making enough already.

[saltpoint]

24. I wasn't singling you out. I really don't care for the idea of anyone

pissing on my boots, NO MATTER WHO IT IS! In fact, the prospect suggests a distinct unsavoryness, in my opinion, not to mention sanitation concerns.

Wait -- you're saying you don't like the HMOs? That's shocking, considering that this is a progressive site of Democrats and independents. And bold of you to assert, given how much we all dearly love HMOs.

[LaydeeBug]

28. Lock your boots up anyway, just in case. But keep them accessible...

because i have a feeling it's gonna get DEEP in here next week if he caves on public option.

[saltpoint]

29. You revert by default to the same subordinate conjunction.

Which is where we came in to this movie.

[LaydeeBug]

37. actually, you're the one tryna change the plot in this here movie, through conjunction

that's when i offered to piss on your boots and tell you it's raining.

You're a last word person. I find that amusing.

[saltpoint]

40. If you're the sort of person who pisses on boots, it's clear that almost

anything would strike you as amusing.

[LaydeeBug]

43. for one so adept in grammar, so much eludes you. Sad. So sad.

nt

[saltpoint]

48. O you don't know the half of it. The number of things that elude me

is not measurable.

I'm still holding out for a Northwest Passage, the Fountain of Youth, Amelia Earhart's bones, Alexander's grave, and a tooth from the jaw of St. Jerome.

[scheming daemons]

2. The problem is all of the preemptive "disappointment" that is going on

By the simple virtue of your "IF" in the OP, you are making it clear that all of the retching going on in here now is very premature.


wait. to. see. what. the. man. says.

[Deja Q]

9. Seconded.

[LaydeeBug]

11. It's not very premature considering the ramblings coming from his aides, and you know it.

I am holding out hope, but don't think Sherrod Brown and Nancy Pelosi issued premature statements either.

[QC]

34. It's like all these political junkies have never heard of trial balloons. n/t

[frylock]

46. winner

[QC]

47. I can't quite figure it out: people who imagine themselves to be experts

on the theory and practice of politics claim never to have heard of one of the most common of all media strategies: trial ballooning.

The White House has been trail ballooning this issue up one side and down the other for weeks, and our resident scholars claim to be totally blind to it.

[H2O Man]

3. If the ear of the elk

ceases to seek the heart of the cabbage, will the honk of the gander still beckon the turtle from its shell?

[Inuca]

4. Love you! n/t

[LaydeeBug]

12. again, if I piss on your boots and tell you it's raining, will you look for a rainbow?

[TankLV]

17. probably not - but if we send him HORSESHIT, he sure as certain look for the PONY

we "sure" sent him!!!

[LaydeeBug]

20. are you saying you think Obama is not caving on the public option?

[QC]

35. I just KNOW there's a pony in here somewhere!

[LaydeeBug]

44. are you saying you think Obama is not caving on the public option too?

nt

[QC]

45. I'm saying that the people reaching desperately to portray this sell out as

something other than a sell out are like the kid in that old joke who looks at the enormous pile of shit and declares that there's just got to be a pony in there somewhere.

[H2O Man]

41. Try it

and see what happens.

[Curtland1015]

5. You say that as if there haven't been people here disgusted with him for months.

Long before there was any hint of what may or may not be on what bill or why.

[LaydeeBug]

13. You are applying "people" to me, and there was ALWAYS a "hint" about this bill...

check his platform.

This isn't about my ego, or yours, or his, for that matter. It's about healthcare.

[Jennicut]

6. Uh, people are already disgusted with him, what's stopping you?

Seriously, you can make up your own mind. Skinner lets us post how we feel here.

[LaydeeBug]

19. I am not disgusted until this happens. there is still time to change his mind, and I am hoping

that will happen. the last time I was disgusted with him, Rick Warren was given a national platform. No, it is still not acceptable, but I've moved on. If we get single payer, he would have done Teddy proud. If we get strong public option, he is keeping his word. That will make him do no wrong in my eyes. But that's just me.

I promise to post it though. If it happens. i promise to post these words as the title to a fresh OP. "Barack Obama can do no wrong in my eyes now"

[Jennicut]

26. I feel the same way you do....I won't give up on him unless he gives up totally on the public option

I heard David Gregory on the Today show today say the President will emphasize what we can get passed in Congress (regarding pre-existing conditions, etc.) but won't abandon support of the public option. I have no idea what that means except we all have to wait to Wednesday to see what happens.

[emulatorloo]

31. I wouldn't trust "David Gregory" if his tongue came notarized.

He has pretty much proven himself to be a rightwing tool

[Jennicut]

38. Ha! Who knows what will be in Obama's speech, I have heard a million things from all the pundits.

They have no clue either.

[LaydeeBug]

42. that's why I am holding out hope, Jennicut, I really am

Those trial balloons were sent up though, and that's a fact. Facts are stubborn things. But I know that no one gets rich betting against that man, and I DO support him. Until he says it, I will hold out hope.

If, however, my fears are realized before my hope is, there will another story to tell. Like, it'll be 'send out some fishes' time.

[stray cat]

7. Sure - you are even allowed to help directly or indirectly elect the GOP into power

its always your choice. In 2000 we chose W over Gore, in 2004 we chose W over Kerry so its up to us what we choose in 2012.

[LaydeeBug]

15. Or we could eat that shit and just pretend it's chocolate? What's your point?

come on now...or maybe this was what Rahm Emmanuel's plan really is...we libs got nowhere to go, so why not fuck us first? America has a short memory.

[PVnRT]

30. In other words, no

We are just to agree with everything they do, no matter what. Great plan.

[dmallind]

8. Sure...but

*if* you then pretend he has "betrayed you" or is "as bad as Bush" the rest of us are allowed to call you a hysterical idiot.

BTW this is what the platform says...

"Covering All Americans and Providing Real Choices of Affordable Health Insurance Options.
Families and individuals should have the option of keeping the coverage they have or choosing from a wide array of health insurance plans, including many private health insurance options and A PUBLIC PLAN (emphasis mine). Coverage should be made affordable for all Americans with subsidies provided through tax credits and other means.

Shared Responsibility. Health care should be a shared responsibility between employers, workers, insurers, providers and government. All Americans should have coverage they can afford; employers should have incentives to provide coverage to their workers; insurers and providers should ensure high quality affordable care; and the government should ensure that health insurance is affordable and provides meaningful coverage. As
affordable coverage is made available, individuals should purchase health insurance and take steps to lead healthy lives.

An End to Insurance Discrimination. Health insurance plans should accept all applicants and be prohibited from charging different prices based on pre-existing conditions. They should compete on the cost of providing health care and the quality of that care, not on their ability to avoid or over-charge people who are or may get sick. Premiums collected by insurers should be primarily dedicated to care, not profits.

Portable Insurance. No one should have to worry about losing health coverage if they change or lose their job.

Meaningful Benefits. Families should have health insurance coverage similar to what Members of Congress enjoy. They should not be forced to bear the burden of skyrocketing premiums, unaffordable deductibles or benefit limits that leave them at financial risk when they become sick. We will finally achieve long-overdue mental health and addiction treatment parity.

…" (it then goes on to provide more details on things like modernizing the system, eliminating racial gaps, a stong workforce in the field and so on.

The only mention of a public plan is that in MY (not the platform's) majuscules in the first paragraph. There is no mention of what the plan should be, and direct narrative that says it should not be the only plan. It's important to remember what the real Democratic platform he campaigned on, and party delegates voted on, really says. What people claiming to speak for "all REAL Democrats" on DU is often not what those real Democrats actually put in their real platform.

I'm as left as anyone on this and more so than most (for once). I believe a Scandinavian/French system to be ideal and would have a full single payer system available for all that you can opt OUT OF - not into. But I'm also a realist and I won;t fool myself into thinking anything but that pipedream is a betrayal of what Obama said he stood for. A particularly powerful public option that crowded out private insurers, much as I and many others here would like it, ironically WOULD be such a betrayal.

[LaydeeBug]

16. so, other than mentioning that public plan IN THE FIRST FREAKING PARAGRAPH,he doesn't do it anywhere

else, so no holding him to account for that. Gotcha.

[dmallind]

49. Oh yeah that first paragraph is so detailed and expanded compared to the rest

Dickhead. Learn to read.

[Lex]

14. No.

nt

[LaydeeBug]

25. ok...

nt

[JTFrog]

21. *IF* You've already jumped the shark, how can you still be on the ledge? n/t

[LaydeeBug]

23. I haven't jumped the shark yet. No one can deny that TOP aides are saying no public option.

I didn't make that up. YOU watch David Axelrod, a TOP AIDE if ever there was one talk about the 'spirit' of a public option, and then tell me *I've* jumped shark.

[Echo In Light]

33. Olbermann's show certainly made that painfully clear last night.

It's as if the public is already being conditioned to concede the loss vis a vis sublimating actual reform for 'the long, hard fight' propaganda.

[LaydeeBug]

36. you said in two lines what I could not articulate in an entire thread.

Thank you

[Echo In Light]

39. Auh. Cold comfort, but thanks

[WeDidIt]

27. If that happens I will be openly advocating a primary challenge. n/t

[lunatica]

32. Do you need permission to be disgusted?

Pray tell where the rules are posted.