"Too Fat to be a Model?" (UK Guardian) **WARNING** Tastefully covered nude inside

[AspenRose]

She's a pretty lady....

"Lizzie Miller, the 20-year-old model in question, agrees that it's astonishing that, at 5 ft 11 in and 12.5 stone she's considered a "plus size" model. "It's sad," she says. "In the industry anything over size six is considered a plus-size." Miller, who is around a US size 12-14 (that is, either average or slightly below average) lost about 60lb when she was 13 but today she is considered too large to model for plus-size lines Marina Rinaldi (she says, "they like girls who are an 8-10") or Elena Miro. She says that the overwhelming reaction to the tiny photograph, buried on page 194 of Glamour magazine "shows that the world is hungry to see pictures of normal women."

One wouldn't have thought this would be news. As Miller says, "pretty much every picture in a magazine or ad is airbrushed . . . I don't think the public understands how much smoke and mirrors are involved in making women look like that."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/02/lizzie-miller-model-fat

[PM Martin]

1. The fashion industry is most contemptable.

[AspenRose]

3. Right?

No wonder so many girls and women have body image issues. There's absolutely nothing wrong with her....

[asdjrocky]

54. Wrong with her?

Man, I can think of several, I mean severl, things right with her. It is a pity.

[Warpy]

18. They all seem to want to dress young drag queens

There is very little respect for the normal female body.

Even catalogs for plus size clothing show it modeled by hat rack sized women.

Guys, wobbly bits are normal. Breasts are normal. Cellulite is normal. Being over 16 years old is normal.

Being female is normal.

Dammit.

[AspenRose]

20. *applause*

"There is very little respect for the normal female body."
:thumbsup:

That's basically the point.

[pipi_k]

44. On plus sized catalogs...

You are exactly right...I get a lot of those plus sized catalogs, and most of them do feature clothing being modeled by women I would not categorize as being "plus" sized. Although they technically probably are, as they look like they're probably size 12s or something.

I can't even count the numbers of times I've bought something from one of those catalogs thinking it was going to look as good on me as it does on the model and it's a huge letdown every time.

The only catalogs I receive that do actually use plus sized models are Junonia and Making It Big.

[diamidue]

101. Yes,

and being thin is normal, too for many women. I have no problem with models being thin.

They do not define what womanhood should be. They simply model clothes.

It is ridiculous that models should be singled out for such hostility. I think that women sometimes channel their anger at the wrong people.

[AspenRose]

110. The article is about an average sized woman turned down for plus sized modeling

because they thought she was too big.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but to be honest, thin models didn't even come up on my radar. What DID come up was how unrealistic the modeling industry is, when they tell a woman who is "plus sized" that she's too big to model their clothes and would rather have a size 8-10 model plus sized clothing for plus sized women. That just doesn't make any sense.

No hostility towards the model....plenty of "hostility" at the industry, though. :hi:

I would also add that since we've got weight and image issues in this country, I would offer the suggestion that perhaps "normal" isn't the right word, but women looking like this lady are the "norm." The average American woman wears a size 14.

I'm certainly not going to suggest that thin women aren't "normal." I can see where you'd get that impression, though.

[diamidue]

120. nicely said. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

130. Again, the idea is to sell clothes

The clothes look better on abnormally skinny models and thus people are tricked into thinking the clothes will look that good on them and they buy the clothes. Being a model isn't the epitome of sexiness and guys who think that don't know what they look like when they aren't airbrushed.

[redqueen]

2. Of course it's news... only stick women are supposed to be shown as sexy.

"Plus size" women are only to be used as examples in "before and after" weight loss adds.

Duh.

[AspenRose]

5. She lost 60 lbs a few years prior to this picture

And they STILL think she's too big. For Plus Size!!! Crazy.

[Sebastian Doyle]

4. That's their idea of "fat"??

:wtf:

[redqueen]

10. She falls into the very upper end of 'normal'

based on the BMI.

As for fashion, hollywood, etc... yes... she's 'fat.'

[theoldman]

6. I think her problem is her shape.

She is lean at the top and heavy at the bottom. I certainly would not put her in the PLUS size.

[seabeyond]

16. it isnt her problem. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

19. +1

:thumbsup:

[varelse]

53. Good catch

:thumbsup:

[Quantess]

7. I'm sure the "plus size" models get a lot of work

Posing for Macys ads, Lane Bryant, etc.

"Anything over size 6 is considered plus-size..."
Well, obviously. It seems to be more like anything over size 2.

[AspenRose]

8. Wasn't Marilyn Monroe a US size 12-14?

Edit to add: I stand corrected. Snopes said she was an 8 to 10, but they also mention that clothing sizes have changed over the years

http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.asp

[Lorien]

12. Yep

That famous white dress of hers was a current size 14.

[girl gone mad]

36. No way.

I've seen some of her clothes in person. She was tiny, maybe 5'3". I'm a size 2 and I think I could have comfortably worn her jeans. She did have curves, though, and she knew how to accentuate them.

[redqueen]

38. You're a size 2 and your thighs look like hers in that pic?

How about your hips, upper arms & butt? About the same?

[JNelson6563]

125. Siznig has changed drastically.

I am one of the much hated "skinny" people. Don't do anything to be this way, just the way I am. Anyhow, shopping is a nightmare for me. Size 4 nowadays means a 32" waist and 40" hips, at least. Since when does XS mean 40" chest??

Yeah, sizing's changed. I'd wager MM would wear a current size 4 or so.

Julie

[redqueen]

133. I think I quite clearly already acknowledged that... my question was:

Does a size two (or four) have thighs, upper arms, hips and a butt like that?

It's a very straightforward question.

[JNelson6563]

134. Hate to answer a question with a question

but are you talking today's size 2/4 or from MM's day? In my mind, no, she's not a size 2 or 4 but today's clothing maker's may disagree.

Julie

[redqueen]

135. Please... if that was a size 2 or 4, then... what would it be today?

Why is this so hard for people to admit or discuss rationally?

Why the desire to cling so desperately to the idea that she was "tiny"... she was not tiny in that pic... not by a longshot.

As I said above, I find it very sad that people use her - a woman who struggled with her weight, and was given a hard time about it by the studio bosses at the time - to try to push this "smaller is sexier" bullshit.

[JNelson6563]

136. Ok, take a deep breath

I don't contend MM was "tiny". Not at all. I am "tiny" so I rarely mistake those who are not to be so.

You seem a bit wound up on this topic, too much so as you are misreading my posts. I tend to agree with you. There has been a huge effort to provide women with an unrealistic, unattainable ideal. So much so that we now have "vanity" sizing. 40" chest, 32" waist and 42" hips, yes, you are now, magically, a size 4! Congratulations. Get those measurements down to 36", 30" and 38" and you'll be a zero! Oy. It's ridiculous on several fronts.

Julie--not sure where the hostility is coming from

[RebelOne]

137. I can confirm that sizing has changed drastically.

When I was in my 20s, 30s and 40s, I weighed 125-130. I'm 5'3-1/2." At that time, I wore a size 9. Then in my 50s and 60s, I jumped up to size 11-12 because I gained 15 pounds. I have since lost the weight, but now I can wear some 6s. But sizes 7-8 fit fine. So, if I am the same weight as I was many years ago, why am I now wearing a smaller dress size?

[Quantess]

14. A size 12-14 of the bygone era translates to about a 6 or 8 today.

[Lorien]

21. Her size was judged by current standards. nt

[Quantess]

22. Maybe a 12-14 of 10 years ago. (n/t)

[redqueen]

26. And here we go with this again...

Look at her thighs, butt, upper arms and waist there... she was not a size 6... doubt she was even an 8... I looked a hell of lot thinner than that as an 8.

[Quantess]

31. People get confused because of the rampant "size inflation" that has been going on.

All you have to do is check the size labels on vintage clothing to know that an 8 of the 1950s was really skinny, and an 8 in 1982 was pretty darn slim. An 8 in 2009 means you might want to go to the gym before you wear a bikini in public.

[redqueen]

32. Yes, that muddies the issue...

as does the fact that many people like to cite her lowest weight and leave it at that.

The fact is, the studio execs harped on her for her weight, and she had issues with it. Anyone can look at that picture, or other pictures, and see that she was not a size 6 or 8.

It's really sad that people *insist* on using her that way... a woman who struggled with her weight herself... to try to continue this nonsense.

[demodonkey]

46. ooooooooo, I wore Size 8 in 1982!

:woohoo:

[Xithras]

9. I read an article last year...

...about how the porn industry was caught offguard by the explosion of websites that show amateur video, and how they're swallowing up a lions share of the market. It turns out that, when given a real choice, people would much rather look at REAL women, than look at silicone injected, airbrushed, surgically sculpted fakes.

I know that's not directly related to the article on Lizzie Miller, but it's more evidence to show how out of touch marketers in all parts of the media are with the real tastes of average people.

And the picture of the stunningly beautiful naked woman jogged the memory. :)

[AspenRose]

13. It's a shame when women aren't encouraged to embrace their natural beauty

Of course, women have the choice to do whatever they'd like with their bodies, but it's just so sad to see girls influenced at such a young age....that somehow they aren't good enough as they are. And that they feel they have to endure illness (anorexia), surgery, pain and scars to be thought of as acceptable.

[Lorien]

11. I'm 5' 8" and was once anorexic, weighing only 92 pounds

at the same height. I wore a size 7 then. Some women will NEVER be a size 0 no matter how much they starve themselves. The width of their pelvic bones and shoulders won't permit it. Young girls are being lead to believe that if they are any bigger than a size 6 they are "too fat", and that can and does lead to the death of some of them.

[XemaSab]

64. I'm 5'7 and I used to be 120

and a size 12.

I have BIG hips. BIG I tell ya.

[Hekate]

66. I'm 5'4" & in college was 110 lbs--skinny but not anorexic. That's when I discovered my shoulders &

... hips absolutely would not go down another size to what my taller, more bosomy roommate wore. You are absolutely right about bone structure: Even if I had been consciously starving myself (and I'm so sorry you were) the bones were not going to permit it.

The issue with really young girls is shocking: my slender daughter said something to me about her "fat thighs" when she was in 5th grade. I about choked. By the time she was in 7th grade one of her 8th grade friends she'd known since grade school had become seriously anorexic. As I write this I wonder if it was that girl who was already talking about supposedly fat thighs a few years previously. :-(

Hekate

[johnnie]

15. Why want to be a model in the first place?

It only feeds this sexist bullshit.

[iamjoy]

17. She Has Beautiful Skin

From what the picture shows, she has simply gorgeous skin. I mean, they could have airbrushed blemishes, stretchmarks, etc, But it doesn't look like she has cellulite and her complexion seems to have a really nice, soft glow. Yeah, she's bottom heavy, but that pouch at her stomach looks more like left overs from weight loss or just that natural bit of gut that healthy women who don't starve themselves and/or obsessively train have. Look at her face too - it doesn't seem she's packing extra pounds

[girl gone mad]

42. Most women have cellulite and stretch marks..

to one degree or another. It can't be that repulsive, or evolution would have taken care of it long ago. I saw a show a few years ago where a young bride to be in Africa was concerned that her arranged husband would be disappointed in her because she didn't have enough stretch marks. I guess in at least one culture, they are considered desirable.

[kumbaya]

117. Where in Africa?

Women right now are jamming the phone lines for one-way tickets to that country in the continent!:rofl:

[BeHereNow]

23. Mandatory Figure Drawing Classes for ALL

My daughter had the great fortune to study with one of the best figure
drawing teachers in the country.
I had the fortune to observe him work with students.

He is one of the most brilliant educators I have ever encountered.
In one of our discussions he once mentioned his selection of models
for the classes he taught. He very purposely selected models
of all ages, body types and races. He told me that
he felt it was important for young people to study/draw older people
so that they would understand and embrace aging.
He felt that it was important for them to study bodies that did
not fit the corporate inflicted media types-

My daughter and the other students fortunate enough to experience
his tutelage have grown into very self accepting young adults.

If everyone took figure drawing studies with this man,
the world would be a very different place.

There is beauty in everyone at any age.

BHN

[AspenRose]

33. Now THAT is very cool.

I especially appreciate the variance in ages and ethnicities.

[BeHereNow]

37. He is a genius, that man. Too bad he retired.

We became very close friends and I have learned a great deal from him.
As did every student he ever touched over his 40 years of teaching.
Never missed a day in FORTY years.
Can you imagine that????

BHN

[hyphenate]

118. In science fiction fandom, bigger is usually

well received. When you look at some of the poster art by such luminaries as Kelly Freas, Boris Vallejo and others, it's hard to picture Twiggy or someone anorexic wearing battle armor. Think of Xena, and it says it all.

[Mudoria]

24. That's why men and women come in all sizes and shapes..

everyone can find someone they like. That roll of fat around the midsection is a turnoff for me.

[redqueen]

25. The issue isn't what sizes people come in... it's that only one size is depicted as acceptable.

Duh.

Oh, sorry... on edit... this applies pretty much only to women.

[Mudoria]

29. I completely agree and hope I didn't come off as sounding like they should all be thin.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

83. also, only one age is acceptable--

for women, that is....

godDAMMIT I hate corporate media

[redqueen]

94. Yep... and that reminds me of one of my pet peeves...

when people admire actresses and such for looking young... I wish they'd say "she has a great plastic surgeon!" instead of "She looks so great"

Let's be honest about it... they nearly all aren't young looking for any other reason than that.

And if we're going to further the cult of youth-worshipping, let's be up-front about which industry we're advertising for... shall we?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

124. verily, you speak the truth.

ha, I hadn't thought of that! But so true!

I just want to hurl at the ads for whatever youth-spackle that always feature a 19 year old ... to show you it works! Or, on a much more tasteless level, the relentless ads on yahoo with horrible scary animations of a hag-faced woman...scroll over to see the years wiped away!! I'd like to personally choke the little 30 year old ad-boys who come up with that crap.

Naomi Wolf wrote The Beauty Myth, but I think what's really so repressive and objectionable is the beauty dictate and the cultural screening of all women behind an image of impossible changeless perfect youthful beauty. (a mostly white image. Seems black women are not quite so beholden to the demand that they exist only as beauteous young personality-free fetishes)

[redqueen]

127. I think I'll start spamming the ubiquitous 'doesn't this old person look so great!' threads

with comments about what a fantastic plastic surgeon they must have. :)

And re: race yeah, the whole 'black don't crack' saying comes to mind.

[create.peace]

59. your saying that is a turn-off for me, and you might have cared when i was young and had no stomach.

i was 117 and 5-7 and thought i was fat. i had no stomach. you have been brainwashed, as i was then....

[krabigirl]

72. Yeah, well that's just how some people are built.

[nc4bo]

27. And what is wrong with this woman's body? She's beautiful & completely real.

From one female to another I say: Go girl, you sexy woman you!!!

[Vinca]

28. In reality, many of us are size 6. My left thigh is a size 6 and so is my right.

:rofl:

[XemaSab]

65. I'm a size 6

in dog sizes. :D

[Systematic Chaos]

30. My wife is 5'4" and weighs exactly 160. Sexiest thing in the fucking WORLD to me.

I want her to get down about 25 lbs. or so in the time it will take me to cut my own weight by half, and we're both eating very healthy and doing things right to that end.

Still, I'll never be attracted to women who are sickly thin.

The model in the OP is damn sexy too, IMO.

[BeHereNow]

34. You're my kind of man! (Don't tell your wife...)

Not to be too flirty or anything, but I simply LOVE a guy
who thinks his wife is sexy, no matter what shape or size.
To me, you are a REAL man, because it takes self confidence
to love a woman who is SEXY.
Sexy is not a shape, it is an ATTITUDE and self confidence.

BHN

[seabeyond]

35. healthy is the key... for all of us. a person feels better, moves better

healthy is good.

big thumbs up to you

[AspenRose]

39. You need to be cloned.

:rofl:

[Jennicut]

55. You rock. I am 5'4 and have gone anywhere from 138 to 160.

I want to get down to where I was before I had my kids, 138 to 140. I have diabetes so its a struggle. My hubby and I are eating better together and exercising. Hope it works out for you guys. :)

[jmowreader]

40. What they're not telling you: she's too TALL to be a model

She is absolutely beautiful in the face. She's got a bit of tummy flab, but if she's not modeling swimsuits or skin-tight jeans that's not really going to come into play. The sticking point here is she's damn near six feet tall--the average man's height. Put her in a shot with a five-six model and the other girl will come up to Lizzie's nose. Not good. And when the client comes in with a case of clothes to use in a shoot, all the clothes will be cut for an average-height woman, not someone six feet tall.

I wonder if she can act. That might be better.

[seabeyond]

41. but models arent 5'6". try 6 feet. nt

[Blasphemer]

47. Yeah 5'6 is way too short for runway... Kate Moss is 5'7 but she is a rarity

She got very lucky becoming Calvin Klein's muse. The ideal model height is between 5'9" and 6'. Sometimes there are problems with too tall girls (well over 6") but that is pretty rare and many women who are beautiful enough to be in the industry are turned away for being too short.

[DKRC]

51. The closer to 6' the better

I don't know of any agency ever looking for 5'6" models. I hit 6' at 12 and was being groomed for a runway in Europe at 14. The deal breaker for me was the requirement that I drop from 150 to 110 at 6'. I told the recruiter I would look like a bone & a hank of hair, but that was what they were looking for. No thanks.

[JI7]

93. being Tall is a plus in the modeling industry, it's short women who have a problem getting in

[Froward69]

43. YUMMY!

[Missy Vixen]

45. I've seen this photo several times now

I just love looking at it. After all, the vast majority of women look more like Lizzi Miller than Kate Moss.

I also have to hand it to her for having the guts to pose naked. Then again, if I looked like her, I'd never wear clothes. ;-) :woohoo:

[Blasphemer]

48. The fashion industry is completely out of whack... their idea of "plus size" is absurd

You will size 10-12 women advertising plus size clothing and they don't even properly fill out the clothes they are advertising. It is the stupidest thing. It is quite obvious when a person is starving themselves to be a certain size vs. being naturally very thin. They argue that very thin women model clothing to a better effect than larger women but in my opinion, seeing women who are clearly starving themselves strut down a runway is very off-putting.

[DailyGrind51]

49. This woman is beautiful by any standard!

These fashionazis would probably have rejected Marilyn Monroe for the same reason!

[Hepburn]

50. I am 5 ft. 10-1/2 ins. tall....

....and a size 12 is not at all large for someone as tall as me. For me to wear a size 10, I weigh around 127 - 137 pounds and that is not that much when one considers how tall I am. Yes, that is a loose size 10, but I have never liked tight clothing.

The model is about 175 pounds at nearly 6 ft. tall ~~ not overweight in my book.

[zbdent]

52. that's too fat? well, maybe for a runway model ...

but I think she looks beautiful ...

[varelse]

56. some of the comments are pretty damn funny

pikeman
02 Sep 09, 10:24am
Maybe after reporting the "deluge of emails", Guardian Weekend could "make a commitment to" showing more pictures of naked women?

[windoe]

57. Narrow definitions of beauty to me are a form of subtle repression

by the industry that sells all the surgery and products....It seems like women have been turned into plastic over the last 20 years, made into objects. I love this photo, she is so natural and happy, a state of being, not a look.

[Poll_Blind]

68. I also find it funny how few seem to make the connection between the...

...narrow definition of beauty that you talk about and the (much more inflammatory) nature of racism based equally superficial traits like skin color.

PB

[windoe]

76. How far have we wandered

from natural looks, was it 30 years ago? I used to love all the many ways people could just be themselves, natural hair, and styles that were obviously individual preference. People were coming out as themselves, and that to me is the ultimate beauty, a person's true essence.

Today so many people are outwardly driven, they define themselves as how they are seen, not how they see themselves. My gods women go through so much pain and expense to look beautiful. All their surgical sites end up being numb, numb lips, nipples, faces, so they give up personal pleasure for a look. Not to mention all the noxious chemicals applied to hair, when it can be conditioned with natural oils. Oh, don't get me started.

I know it is personal choice, but I also miss seeing women of color wearing their hair natural, to me it looked so proud. I want to see Chris Rocks movie Good Hair, he made it to honor his daughter, who asked him why she didn't have good hair. God I miss seeing people happy from the inside, truly.

[Poll_Blind]

86. I agree. On a much more, erm, "adult" (I guess) note, I was watching...

...and interview on CNN with some major player in the pornography industry. They were a distribution house and were charged with purchasing the rights for videos for distribution. It was probably during one of those big porn expos that go down in Vegas, the ones that are timed to coincide with the big E3 videogame expo, I think.

Anyway, the interviewer asked them "What types of adult movies are your best sellers?" And the guy replied something like "You'd be surprised, but our biggest sales in a specific genre come from amateur videos whether the women do not look like supermodels. We get lots of requests for what a lot of people would consider overweight, older women. Not what you'd normally think of as a porn star." That's decently close to what he said, anyway.

PB

[redqueen]

95. Love this post.

:thumbsup:

[liquid diamond]

85. It amazes me how many women are falling for this shit. Idiots.

How many men get surgery to enhance their appearances compared to women?

[redqueen]

96. LOL... no, men aren't pressured about looks though, DUH

men are pressured in other ways, and equal numbers fall for it, so don't be so cocky.

[liquid diamond]

98. We aren't spending billions on surgery, make-up, beauty salon services, and crash diet

plans for a fucking look. Carry on now...

[redqueen]

99. No... just stupidly overpriced sportscars, hair plugs, and boner pills

:rofl:

[liquid diamond]

100. Sports cars and boner pills? What do they have to do with a man's

physical appearance? I'll give you hair plugs, but they aren't as common as all the shit women do to their hair: braids, extensions, perms, tint, the list goes on. Suckers.

[redqueen]

107. Uh... I already said... men aren't under that much pressure about their appearance... DUH

It's mostly just women that get that.

Maybe you'll get it this time.


I wonder how much men spend on all those stupid scams trying to make their dicks bigger... :rofl:

[liquid diamond]

121. My point from the beggining is that women spend tons of money

to improve their looks because society demands they look a certain way. This thread is about physical appearance. Try to stay on topic. Speaking of genital surgery, maybe you missed that thread about women going under the knife to change the shape of their vagina. Stupid.

[redqueen]

126. Yeah, you want to call women names for it... but you don't call men names for doing the same thing..

cause you're a fucking hypocrite with a sickening, nasty attitude.

I get it.

[Posteritatis]

92. They don't strike me as terribly subtle. (nt)

[Rocky Sullivan]

58. She's a goodlooking girl, but that paunch looks a tad wrecked.

For a model, that is. Her size isn't the issue so much as the flab on the belly.

[Poll_Blind]

60. Heh heh, oh I'd wreck that paunch!

PB

[Rocky Sullivan]

61. LOL! Check out that Pauncherello!

Boo-yah!

[GaYellowDawg]

62. She's quite attractive...

... too bad she's so damn young.

[Fuzz]

63. Gross!

[Unrepentant Fenian]

67. Fuzz, I'm with you. That gut is gross.

[krabigirl]

73. That's pretty damn sad. Some people are just built that way.

You people make me sick. Post YOUR pics and let us judge YOU.

[Beaverhausen]

74. and if they think any model's photo isn't photoshopped to delete any imperfections

they are just ignorant.

[seabeyond]

77. are you fuckin kidding. the whole reason for these posts is so they can feel like a man

not that they are much of one, hence why the need to mouth off like this.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

87. Fat rolls ain't sexy, sorry. Why is that sick exactly? Do you find beer bellied guys sexy?

If you're honest, I doubt it.

[chatnoir]

97. I'd hardly call a pooch a "fat roll"

She looks pretty damn normal here:




Edit for typo

[FreedomTrain]

132. That's a sexy tummy if I ever saw one

You know, a tummy has to actually exist for it to be able to be sexy. Those anorectic "models" who have no tummy whatsoever (i.e. flat ones) I don't care one bit for. Real men like women with shapes and curves. This girl is very hot (and in the real world, of very average size), and if the fashionistas don't think so, they can go fuck themselves.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

102. Whatever, Chimpy (I'm his wife). He's skinny bones.

[moriah]

105. That's not a fat roll.

She likely weighed a bit more than she does now at one point -- not a lot more -- and has a bit of loose skin on her lower belly. Leaning over like that just emphasized it.

If you saw her standing up straight and clothed at a bar, you'd probably think she was hot, and any man who would say "Gross" if she took her clothes off and showed that body probably doesn't get laid very much. Because that's what a real woman looks like.

[diamidue]

104. And some people are built

tall and thin. They get crucified on this board, too.

A lot of nasty, judgmental people turn out whenever weight is discussed.

[WillyT]

128. Are You Fucking KIDDING ME ???

She is sitting down, and leaning forward...

That is gonna make a roll on ANYONE!

If she did not have that, then she would not be able to lay down, or stand upright!!!

Apparently you haven't been around many naked women. Or men for that matter.

Jesus...

Go play with your keyboard.

:wtf:

BTW - The woman is absolutely gorgeous!!!

[-..__...]

69. It does look like she has a bit of a FUPA showing there.

Maybe it's just the way she's sitting?

[BlooInBloo]

70. Thank gawd for the stone. Whenever people make fun of our units system...

can point to that.

[Odin2005]

71. I think she's cute. Fuck the fashion nazis!

[EndersDame]

75. Heh i knew a model who was teased all her life for being skinny ;always envious of curvy girls

then she moved to a bigger city started her modeling career (not a famous model) After she had her kid she finally got to wear a b cup and was a whopping 107. I think that skinny (ones who are natural twigs not so much by purging or starving themselves) girls are pretty and so are curvy girls and so are athletic girls .I am so glad we all come in different shapes and size otherwise it would be boring

[TheMightyFavog]

78. Still a little skinny for my tastes...

But still quite attractive in my book.

Now if she's got good intellect, a razor wit, and a nice geeky gamer thing going, then her attractiveness would go right through the celing!

[seabeyond]

79. ahhhhh man, dontcha know. you are not playing the guy game

more man than some of the others on htis thread. smarter too. probably happier too.

[TheMightyFavog]

80. What can I say? I like geeky women.

Brains over looks any day.

[seabeyond]

82. geeky women are fun. geeky men are fun. married one

have two boys that are. this from a person who is in no way geeky, which makes it all the more fun for me. they keep me laughing.

[EndersDame]

88. I love being able to snuggle on the couch and watch Trek together

[boppers]

119. Geeks are better in bed.

Obsession with a topic, and caring about details, has some benefits.

[nolabear]

81. Ever see Leonard Nimoy's Full Body Project?

Now those are some zaftig models, and his clear appreciation of what he calls "the goddess in all women" (bless his heart) results in very large nudes who are joyous, graceful, and beautiful. I won't go into health issues because that's a different topic, but as a woman who struggles to be a size 16 I very much apreciate that I can be recognized as potentially physically wonderful by someone right NOW, not in some vague future when I get to be the "right" number on a tag or a scale.

[Iggo]

84. I'll say it again: That ain't plus size. That's actual size.

:patriot:

[AspenRose]

103. I like the way you said that!

:patriot:

[Hippo_Tron]

89. Yea she probably is too fat to be a model, doesn't make her unattractive

Models are essentially walking clothes hangers. They are not modeling themselves, they are modeling the clothes that they are wearing. The clothes look really good on abnormally skinny people and thus they are going to use abnormally skinny models because the idea is to sell clothes. People need to realize that being a model doesn't make you the epitome of sexiness, it just means that clothes look good on you.

[AspenRose]

106. I would agree with you except she was turned down for PLUS SIZE modeling

They thought she was TOO BIG for PLUS SIZE modeling. (Which is just crazy.)

[Juche]

113. Thats f'ed up

Looks do matter in life, but we've gotten way too neurotic in this culture about them. Its better to be fat, pockmarked and a nice person who is happy with yourself than to be thin, clear skinned and miserable, hateful or neurotic.

Most women will never look as good as the model in the photo does. If she is supposed to be ashamed of herself, then what are all the women who don't look as good as her supposed to think about themselves? Obvious question, but it is rhetorical.

Anyway, looks matter but not as much as people seem to think.

[Hippo_Tron]

131. Wouldn't surprise me at all

Again, the idea is to sell clothes. If somebody sees a model wearing something and that it is "plus size" they will probably make the assumption that it will look good on them when in reality the model isn't "plus sized" by any means. Just like most advertising, models are not depicting reality. Reality doesn't sell nearly as much as fantasy does.

[diamidue]

109. Exactly!

It is about the clothes. No one is saying that average or large sized people have to be skinny to be acceptable.

Thin models are needed because too many curves would distract from the lines of the clothing.

I cannot understand the hostility some people have against them.

[aikoaiko]

90. I blame George Balanchine & Coco

eta:

[suffragette]

91. The sizing game is absurd

That's become especially clear with size 0.

What is that if not a negation of self?

An absolute erasure.

And that's what they want us to aspire to?

No thanks!

[diamidue]

111. It is absurd, isn't it?

And you aren't a "Woman" unless you wear larger sizes. Otherwise, you are a "missy" or a "junior".

[suffragette]

129. Great point

All attempts to diminish, both in size and age.

And it can still be harder to find decent styles and natural fabrics in Plus and Woman, though that has become better, mostly through demand from women not because the designers pushed this.

The mint green poly pantsuit (my mother's generation's bane) has morphed to the overly busy, multi colored, poly top.

[Sultana]

108. She's flubby, sorry

nothing attractive about that stomach.

She's 20?

Shit, I thought she's in her 30s.

[hyphenate]

112. Another "plus-size" model

made headlines recently--Crystal Renn, whose new book, "Hungry" is about her own journey through becoming a model at 14, becoming anorexic, and her battle back to normality. This woman is absolutely gorgeous, and I think it pretty much sucks to see the contortions both these women have gone through to become, and stay, models.

http://www.stylelist.com/blog/2009/08/24/exclusive-plus-size-model-crystal-renn-talks-to-stylelist-about/

[AspenRose]

115. Wow, she's stunning (size 16)

[Rocky Sullivan]

123. Whoa! Don't hurt nobody, big girl!

[Fire1]

114. I can see her as "plus size" but I also see the

disproportional aspect. Small from the waist up and BIG from the waist down.

[boppers]

116. When obesity is "normal", what should our artistic ideals reflect?

Should sculptures of Venus from hundreds of years ago be considered "unhealthy"?

Is Micheangleo's David "too thin"?

[BlooInBloo]

122. I bet she's really hot in clothes.