My rock ribbed Republican friend just came face to face with the free market

[Raven]

and he didn't like it one bit!

Very funny. He put a bid in on some land he really wanted but underballed the price and insisted on seller financing of his purchase. Someone else offered full asking price in cash. Obviously they got the property. My friend thought there should be "some law" requiring the seller to come back to him before they took the other offer...really?

He contacted me for legal advice. I told him that what he had just witnessed was the free market at work...capitalism at its best.

I reminded him that he often complained that there were too many laws intruding on peoples' freedom and too much government. He replied that this was different, it was personal. :eyes:

[KatyaR]

1. "this was different, it was personal."

Isn't that always the way? :rofl:

It's amazing how people yell and scream about others abiding by rules and law, but when it comes to themselves, they feel they should be exempt.

[livetohike]

2. "this was different, it was personal"

This is how I win arguments with my Libertarian friend. I have to personalize everything with him in order for him to see things. One example is when he rails against socialism, I ask him where his parents would be without Medicare. Would he foot their medical bills, since they are of limited means and a major health problem would wipe them, and him out. :eyes:

[OHdem10]

3. Typical Republican, your friend. If the law does not work to my

advantage, change it.

[elocs]

7. Yes and they hate taxes unless they personally have something to gain from them. Otherwise, YOYOs:

Your're On Your Own.

[zbdent]

32. "change it" ...

or ignore or break it ... IOKIYAR ...

[TreasonousBastard]

4. I love it, but he doesn't sound like he'll ever see...

the monumental irony.

(Must have led a very sheltered life if that's the first time he lost out on a deal.)

[geckosfeet]

5. Seems like the only time the vagaries of 'capitalism' bother them is when it 'gets personal'.

They (RW tea bagging nutcakes) seem to live in a world that is blind to the realities of this kind of unbridled capitalism. Simply more evidence that they have no idea what capitalism is or could potentially mean to their tiny little lives.

[zbdent]

33. the "restaurant" example of taxation can only work in an ideal, closed system

which never EVER could exist ...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

6. Apparently he didn't REALLY want the land.

I found an extremely rare golf club on ebay that I REALLY wanted. Instead of bidding I hit Buy It Now and paid the $325 for it. Played with it yesterday, worth every penny.

David

[Raven]

9. His wife said that he really did want the property but that he just

can't resist the temptation of getting a "deal". I think he may have learned his lesson.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

16. My wife and I made an offer on a house not long after we'd been married.

The seller took a lower offer because they thought we might not qualify for the loan. We found another house in a better neighborhood for 20 k less and they were out 5 k. It worked out quite well.

[ejpoeta]

18. best to go in with financing already in place. it gives you a better idea of what to

look at, and gives the seller confidence in your offer.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. It was that's what was funny about it.

[aquart]

30. I don't.

I don't think he learned a thing.

[Pangolin2]

45. I get the impression your friend isn't actually a Republican, he's just an idiot.

:shrug:

[Warren Stupidity]

55. Those are generally the same quality, or at least closely correlated.

[yorgatron]

13. live and learn.

:shrug:

[gratuitous]

57. Well, the "live" part is ongoing

But the "learn" part? Jury's still out.

[dkf]

8. Isn't that simply something spelled out in the contract?

And if there was no contract then obviously there is no obligation, other than courtesy right?

[Raven]

10. Exactly! But that rule is no good because it didn't work for him. :-)

[dkf]

14. hahaha. Love these "rule of law" folks.

I have to say, I'm learning a whole lot by watching my sister go through the home buying process. She put in a bunch of offers, but was put back in line because she was contingent. With so many buyers falling out of escrow here (only 40% were closing!!), the sellers were reviewing more than the offer price, but ability to get that mortgage including if they had the 20% down in cash. And for one of the offers, the realtor on the other side said he could break the current contract because the potential buyer kept on messing up on the deadlines, if my sister could match the price.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

11. He's whining, but, in reality,

he never would have paid MORE than the asking price - in cash.

So, he's just whining.

Oh, who doesn't love a mealymouthed crybaby? Especially one who wants someone to do something, even though they have absolutely no intention of following through.

It's a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing..................................

[southernyankeebelle]

12. What goes around, comes around. They always seem to have the

advantage of others. They are good at scratching each others back when they want to get something for themselves.

[frebrd]

15. Why in the world would you have a republican friend?

:shrug:

[Raven]

23. He's married to a very dear friend of mine.

[ejpoeta]

17. it's always different when it's them... or someone they know.

[Phentex]

62. It's true...

The issue doesn't seem to matter until it hits home. *sigh*

[graywarrior]

19. Bwahaha!

Love it!

[Odin2005]

21. Give me a Libertarian and I'll show you a hypocrite.

[Lorien]

22. In my experience ALL republicans have the inabilty to empathize with

others or imagine any experience outside of their own. They believe what they want to believe, and even when they are proven wrong over and over in a very personal manner they rarely accept the truth. Their authoritarian mindsets are really just a symptom of some kind of mental illness.

[aquart]

31. Or a mother who never said, "How would you feel if it was YOU?"

Which my mother said a lot.

[Mr Generic Other]

37. actually, i believe, its a manifestation of cognitive dissonance.

in any society a majority of people, when confronted with evidence that the foundations of their world-view are false, will cling more tightly to the dis-proven notions and reject the proof of falsehood entirely.
so i'm not sure its mental illness.
but it looks like mental illness.

this is an excerpt from a response i wrote earlier today to my brother-in-law.
i was referring to the collective birther, tea bagger,anti-health care coverage, anti-president talking to school kids movement we are experiencing as the minions of the "own worst enemy army" and
i compared the lunatic fringe to st vitus dancers (since this is from an earlier response it may not entirely flow but i think it applies to the conversation):
as a social phenomena, i believe the vocal idiots, who are demanding no health care coverage and objecting to the president talking to kids about an individual's responsibility to work for their own education and life's success (hardly a radical concept in america) are performing some bizarre form of public self-humiliation. they are a demonstration of how desperate americans are. few resources and little education cause panic in tough times.
we are witness to the st vitus dance, a communal response to the end of the world, to the destruction of all that is known, to the loss of faith. the dancers have given up the vestiges of sane life and are marching to the mountain to await the second coming.
scary, tragic and medieval but also kind of a funny spectacle.
those poor souls have been pushed over the edge.
but the support for the millennialists by the media, politicians, and alas even school boards is evidence of a more tame response to the same cognitive dissonant experience and much more troubling on a socio-economic level.
most americans, even the educated, have sucked liberally on the teat of jingoistic propaganda. what else was there to nourish us?
the "change you can believe in" slogan isn't proving to offer much change. either the power elite's strangle-hold on our systems is too strong or even someone as "smart" as obama can't accept the obvious failures of corporate model governmental policies, both domestic and international, and make the basic changes that need fixing any better than those dancing to their deaths.
there are so few free thinkers. some social historians attribute the american ingenuity of the past to our dynamic immigrant population (an argument with some merit) yet we seem to struggle with the reality that the new and vibrant members of our society, those with fresh and inventive perspective are increasingly brown skinned.
i think this intensifies the fear experienced by those living marginal lives. our form of merciless capitalism has taught them that others gain at their expense.
the race thing is a stupid side issue, really, because obama is no scary black panther. he seems to be, in fact, a staunch defender of the status-quo, but i suspect that many, up and down the social ladder, also are struggling with some intensified sense of loss related to america's new reality because mr obama is not entirely of european extraction( the new reality which really hasn't hit us yet and will become much more evident and scary in people's lives).
how will bubba react when the chinese are dictating american foreign and domestic policy. will they be called communist-nazis?

[Laelth]

24. I hope you sent him a bill for your legal advice.

I have little sympathy for the typical Republican who wants socialism for themselves and capitalism for everyone else.

:dem:

-Laelth

[lunatica]

25. That's a problem when you're not reality based

Sometimes it asserts itself anyway

[jpak]

26. Tell to go cry to Ron Paul - he'll fix it!!!!

:D

[alsame]

27. It works for the healthcare debate too. A repub relative of mine

was against all HC reform last year - he had great coverage at his job.

He was laid off in Dec and luckily found another in several months...however, this new job does not provide hc insurance.

He tried to buy private insurance and found that his wife (a recent cancer survivor) wasn't accepted because of her pre-existing condition. So now he is paying an extraordinary sum for himself and his three kids, while his wife is uninsured.

He is now screaming for a public option. It became personal.

[Raven]

28. God! What a story. Spread that one around!

[mrcheerful]

35. But there lays the problem, after he gets what he wants he will then declare no one else deserves it

I knew a GM worker that got laid off in 1981 who ended up on welfare until 1992. In those 10 years his wife had 2 more kids, both paid for by medicaid, 1 was born with a heart condition that was taken care of by medicaid. He got his GED paid for by welfare, welfare bought him a car to get to GED classes, welfare also bought him a house that he had started buying on land contract. In 1992 he was rehired by GM, he was not required to pay 1 cent back to welfare after all they did for him over the last 10 years, mind you he couldn't get any work because he was on layoff and businesses refused to hire him for fear of call back.

Soon after getting back into GM, this asshole started spewing he right wing BS about limits on how long folks could get welfare, how single folks should be exempt from help from welfare and how welfare folks lived high off the hog. BTW, the house welfare bought him was lost 2 years after he went back to GM, the state took it for back taxes owed, he wasn't paying his taxes after he went back to work. When confronted with the facts of his life on welfare, he blew it off as he needed welfare but no one else does and besides they didn't pay as many payroll taxes as he did before and after he was working.

This is the mind set on the right, I deserve it no one else does no further discussion, end of story. Sadly to say that is all the farther they ever see social issues, its all revolves around themselves and what it costs them, like your friend could care less about his wife's health, its about what it will cost him if she gets sick. Seat belt laws, speed limit laws or any other laws? They don't apply to them those laws were written for folks who aren't as good of drivers as they are. It is like that with every single aspect of the right thinkers life. It is probably the one blind spot liberals have about the right, liberals can not wrap their minds around this type of self centered egotistical person, to us it goes against everything we believe or are open to.

[alsame]

36. Exactly right. These issues are only relevant when they apply

personally, the right wingers don't have a sense of social responsibility or social justice. I've noticed that they rarely have the ability to put themselves in someone else's shoes and support things that are for the greater good unless they themselves are affected.

This particular man had offended me last year...I'm self-employed and when I was complaining about the cost of private insurance, he mocked me for complaining and made rude comments about me wanting a 'welfare state'. However, he recently apologized and said he now understood what I was talking about. He had ZERO empathy until he was in the same situation.

And you're correct, as liberals we don't understand this mindset. Maybe that's why we often expect too much from the right, we just can't fathom the indifference they have toward their fellow Americans.

[Qutzupalotl]

38. So what do we do, besides wait for karma to get them?

I'm seeing the same thing in my facebook friends: a hatred and mistrust of people on welfare, at least the ones who "feel like they're entitled to it" and are "too lazy to work", and the consequent hatred of "handouts" using their tax money. I asked one friend how he could tell the lazy ones from the others, and it struck a nerve. He got all pissy. He's never been on welfare to my knowledge, and while I wouldn't wish it on him, being on it or something like that might turn his opinions around.

I guess it's an authoritarian mind or mindset that judges empathy as weakness. It must be rejected, since the goal of the founders was obviously to drown their new government in the bathtub.

I'm not ready to give in and say none on the right can be turned around without a cruel blow of karma, but I have no idea what else it would take. But I am encouraged that the more Obama explains his goals and motivations, the more reasonable he sounds, and that can be disarming to many -- though not all.

[Mr Generic Other]

44. a lot of time and energy has been devoted to teaching US citizens to hate the poor.

i believe it started when the puritans discovered that god shone on his favored, in america, by bestowing wealth and that he punished those he scorned with poverty.
never feed a hungry man when you can teach him to fish.
judge empathy as weakness because it sponsors weakness.
pull yourself up by the boot straps.

we could change this mind-set easily with single-payer, medicare for all from birth to death. it would be a great demonstration of our subscription to equality. people would see that our society valued each of us and it would sponsor more generous attitudes between individuals. people are more generous with those they perceive to be like themselves. single-payer, universal health care would move our country in this direction.
i think that people would be more generous with their resources too since they would all enjoy a social safety net and not need that nest egg so badly.

[Ishoutandscream2]

49. Excellent post, and welcome!

[renate]

59. I wonder whether this is the essential difference between conservatives and liberals

I forget what this stage of development is called, but there's a point when young children suddenly become able to imagine things from another person's point of view. Maybe conservatives just don't ever get that ability and they need to experience a situation themselves before they can imagine what it's like for anyone else.

Or maybe they're just selfish assholes. :shrug:

[alsame]

60. I think we are hard wired differently for sure. Maybe it does reflect

different levels of development during formative years. The behavior and attitudes of the right are definitely childish.

[Ilsa]

46. I've known college students like that. One was divorced with kids

and took every dime in federal aid to go to college, but everyone else was just a deadbeat sucking at the govt. tit.

[notesdev]

29. Hypocrisy knows no bounds

Everyone seems to like fairness, except when they themselves can't get an unfair advantage.

[Quasimodem]

34. To paraphrase Phil Ochs

A Republican is someone who is 90 degrees to the right of center in theory,
and 90 degrees to the left of center if it affects him personally.

[leeroysphitz]

39. What he really meant to say was "This is different, I'm WHITE!" n/t

[treestar]

40. I wonder why he thinks the free market is any different over anything "personal?"

:rofl:

[opihimoimoi]

41. MEism Factor....infected with selfInteres....its all about HIM.....well, he got a shockt

[Hekate]

42. Where has he been during the real estate bubble that afflicted so many of us?

Mr. H and I bought our house 26 years ago this weekend, during a time when you could NOT negotiate a lower price to save yourself. People were bidding above the asking price -- and sellers were all to eager to take it. We lost out on a string of houses before Mr. H figured that out -- and on what became our house we offered the asking price. It was accepted just before someone came along and offered more.

The joys of Santa Barbara County. :eyes:

Hekate

[PM Martin]

43. Typical libertarian. They live in "la la land".

They love to preach to you and I the wonders of unregulated markets. Once that lack of regulation hits home, they go into the corner and cry.
Hypocrit!

:nopity:

[leveymg]

47. A liberal is a libertarian who's been underbid. eom

Looks like he was mugged by the market.

[yost69]

48. Guess he should not have been so cheap and offered what the property was worth.

[bridgit]

50. Out here in the wild west it's referred to as 'earnest money', post it not...

and it isn't so much that all bets are off so much as a bet has not been made - the 'face' then of the property remains as would the ancient mariner's oft times: exposed to the elements, in this case to the free market and a daunting process it is these days to put it mildly

My sense though is that your "rock ribbed Republican friend" may have been operating at a level that personified fast-&-loose the faster the out-from-under-oversight-better and that now he is to be made to walk that dusty little road most of the rest of us have already been walking for decades if not centuries as well...here's hoping he is able to recognize Tom Sawyer if & when he sees him - a paper-bid (goddess save us if verbal in today's environ) unassociated with earnest money suggests to the seller no essential responsibility to remain v. a person standing there and a check book & pen in hand the pen being mightier than the sword or the republic in too many cases

[rucky]

51. Is there anything they won't whine about?

[Liberal_in_LA]

52. K&R

[Downtown Hound]

53. Perfect Republican answer

They love the values they espouse so much, as long as they aren't affected by them.

[mnhtnbb]

54. That's a hoot. When I lived in Missouri--where I was one of very few people

in town who would write LTTE supporting pro-choice-- my family physician one time told me
that he'd had numerous "pro-lifers" in his office wanting to know where to go and how to
get an abortion for the teenage daughter who had become pregnant. When it becomes personal,
all of a sudden a lot of right wing types lose commitment to their ideology.

[proud patriot]

56. LOL , thanks for sharing Raven

:hug:

[Ikonoklast]

58. He could 'bid' all he wants to, the seller never accepted.

No contract, implied or otherwise. He was participating in an open auction, and his bid didn't qualify.

He's an idiot if he thinks the seller has any obligation to even respond to his offer.

[liberaltrucker]

61. Capitalism 101

"Money talks, bullshit walks".

:rofl: