To any recruiter using ILLEGAL data mining to recruit my son:

[ehrnst]

If you use the stealth requirement for funding "No child left Behind" high schools to turn over information on minors 16 to 25 to military recruiters (in violation of international law against recruiting minors into the military) be warned:

You will understand what the term "Hurt Locker" means in very intimate terms;

You will wish that you had been assigned to manually disarm IEDs in Iraq in 2005;

Rather than deal with this momma bear.

I will organize and destroy your career and your will to live, especially since I have opted my son out of your lists:

http://www.leavemychildalone.org/

I post this with the utmost respect for those that entered military service as adults, with full understanding of the risks and benefits involved. I don't believe that using a minor's interests, magazine subscriptions and online video game preferences to pitch them is legal, ethical or fair.

[virgogal]

1. 16-25 are considered minors?

[ehrnst]

2. The 16 - 17 part is. (nt)

[Fire1]

3. If he is your only son you don't have anything to worry about. n/t

[ehrnst]

4. I worry about any illegal activity aimed at my children. (nt)

[Fire1]

6. I understand. Especially pertaining to 'recruitment' vs.

a draft. I've seen them on the college campuses talking to groups of young potential recruits.

[boppers]

5. Data mining on adults is still legal.

For example, adults who bought warfare video games with their credit cards... for their child to play.

Adults who live in poorer areas with few job prospects... for their children.

Adults who have certain magazines delivered to their household... for their children.

See how this works?

To truly have privacy and one's children not "mined", the whole practice of data-mining has to be dealt with, regardless of one being a parent, or child, or whatever.

[sabrina 1]

7. Spying on the American people is still legal period

That is why, when the issue of data mining was brought before Congress, they did nothing about it.

But I agree, the whole practice has to be dealt with. But this Congress is not likely to do so.

[ehrnst]

8. As I said in my post - where my child is concerned

Anyone doing this will regret it on a very basic level.

Any battle is fought in increments. Having international law behind you, especially on children's issues is an advantage.

I won't back down because the battle has been fought and lost before.

[boppers]

10. Where has it been won before?

Since I'm in IT, and know the game quite well, I do a pretty good job of messing with my records in such a way as to make them hard to get useful data from them...

...but has any advanced nation done a good job of eliminating access, or otherwise protecting data, in such a way as to get rid of things like credit cards, shopping cards, banking paper trails, use records, and other identity-based information?

[ehrnst]

11. I never said it was. But that doesn't mean that I can't make a dent

or will throw up my hands and walk away.

If that makes me an idealist, so be it. But anything less than my best jab at this is not acceptable to me as a parent, and I think that there are many that feel the same.

[boppers]

14. Oh, I wasn't asking you to prove it was winnable, or won before...

I was looking for battle strategies, tactics, ways this has been dealt with before, as guideposts for future action.

HIPAA regulations is the closest thing in the US that I can think of.

[sabrina 1]

12. Oh, I agree with you completely and loved your OP

The reason they get away with these undemocratic policies is because there isn't enough backlash, such as yours so they suffer no consequences.

I can assure you if any minor in my family were to be 'recruited' at all, let alone as a result of the sneaky, despicable, underhanded and unconstitutional gathering of information about him/her, you can bet that I would, will be if it happens, right with you on how to go about handling it.

This assault on children probably gets me as angry as the guy who once threatened to hang my puppy from 'the nearest pole'. He was over 6 feet with a bad reputation but all I will say is he ran as far as he could after I explained his probable fate should he ever consider carrying out that threat. Suffice it to say his reputation as a tough guy was ruined and the puppy was safe from harm.

Animals and children should be off limits to these thugs, but when they are not, I am fully in favor of, shall we say, extremely strong measures to get their attention.

[ehrnst]

9. I agree. And if they try to use my son's personal information

while he is a legal minor - in a public high school, I will fight it as a parent and as a citizen. If he's in college, he has another set of tools to his advantage, but while he's my responsibilty, I will be make sure that his education does not involve compromising his future because BushCo had the opportunity and took it.

[elocs]

13. My godson went to one of those state national guard schools for troubled kids

and, surprise-surprise, after he graduated he chose to enlist at 17. He did a tour in Afghanistan, came back ok and re-upped for another 6 years. Ultimately the Army was the best thing for him although I initially had my doubts. I am betting he will make it a career and finish his 20 years by the time he is 37.

[Statistical]

15. Although he likely isn't looking that far forward he could...

He could retire at 37, land govt job (veteran preference) retire again at 57 with two pensions & healthcare for life.

Two pensions + social security + some savings (IRA) can set you up nice to enjoy your retirement years.

[elocs]

16. He really does love the military and it is a very good fit for him.

He didn't do well when he had to make his own decisions. He wasn't a bad kid, but in high school he simply decided not to go and by the time he was in his junior year it was clear he would not be able to graduate.

He attended the Lincoln Challenge Academy in Illinois and the summer after his junior year he was able to get his GED. By the time his classmates had finished their senior year he had already been in the Army for 9 months. He did his tour in Afghanistan is back now getting more computer training and next spring he will be headed to Germany. I must say I am proud with what he has done with his life and how he has matured.

[ehrnst]

26. I believe the military service is the right choice for many people.

I think that recruitment works best when presented honestly and consistently. I don't think that's served by investigating the preferences of ALL 16-18 year old kids, and using that to target market in a way that leaves out the big picture.

However, I've read on DU and other places that the current shortage of troops is leading some recruiters to bend many ethical guidelines, and gloss over certain aspect of enlistment in an effort to meet quotas.

http://www.wilpf.org/abusive_military_recruiting

There is no ethical reason to connect handing over information on minors to the military with funding public education.

[AieinAristuein]

17. never piss off a mama bear!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

18. What you consider legal or illegal is immaterial.

[ehrnst]

21. I have some knowlege of IT law.

And international prohibits the recruitment of minors.

Gathering data on a minor for purposes of targeted recruitment is recruitment activity.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

25. Minors are recruited all the time so I'm guessing the laws you speak of aren't recognized by the US.

[ehrnst]

27. Actually, you are correct about the US

While government armed forces are permitted to recruit volunteers from the age of 16, they must take steps to ensure that the recruitment is genuinely voluntary. If they are collecting data on minors without their knowledge, or their guardians' knowledge, that is not voluntary.

http://www.wilpf.org/abusive_military_recruiting

"The United Nations as well as the United States military promulgates strict regulations governing the recruitment of minors into the armed services and the involvement of minors in armed conflict. The international prohibitions and guidelines are detailed in the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child, signed by the U.S. government in 2000 and ratified it on Dec. 23, 2002."

"On August 19, 2006, CBS news reported that over 100 underage girls had complained of being sexually assaulted by military recruiters, who in many cases took advantage of the teens’ desire to enlist. “Women were raped on recruiting office couches, assaulted in government cars and groped en route to entrance exams. A six-month Associated Press investigation found that more than 80 military recruiters were disciplined last year for sexual misconduct with potential enlistees. The cases occurred across all branches of the military and in all regions of the country.” And in a widely published Associated Press story dated July 24, 2006 , journalist Audrey Mcavoy describes the way recruiters for the Marine Corps make use web-based social networking sites such as My Space, to gain access to and develop relationships with youngsters that are unsupervised by parents or other community adults."

[Thothmes]

19. The only way your kid can join the Armed Services of the United States

at 17 years of age, is for you to give them permission and countersign the enlistment papers. Once the boy/girl reaches 18 years of age, they no longer needs your permission to enlist.

[ehrnst]

23. I understand that - however if the recruiter knows that a 17/18 year old

subscribers to Hot Rod Magasine, and play certain online video games, they can use that to tailor a pitch to make it sound like the particular branch of the Armed Forces were geared to them.

Now there are international laws against the recruiting of minors. If this information is gathered for purposes of recruitment when the boy is 16, that's recruiting minors.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

20. I opted out both of my kids while in HS but once they applied to college, the calls started.

[Mari333]

22. I learned the hard way, that once they are of legal age,

you cannot protect them from anything.

[ehrnst]

24. Yes, but I can protect him from some things as a minor, and will do so.

This includes information on his magazine subscriptions, his online activity, and other prefernces for the purpose of targeting him for recruitment while he is under 18.

[TexasObserver]

28. You might want to focus on your son, not the recruiters.

If you don't educate your son to the dangers of military recruitment, he'll be 18 soon enough and on his own for purposes of joining the military.