The Audacity of Hope? Audacity? Call It Mendacity.

[David Zephyr]

Americans would have a government-run health-care program to compete against the private insurance companies. Yes, we can, but no he won't.

The rule of law and the penalty of the law would apply to the rich as it does to the poor. Yes, we can, we were promised. But no, he won't.

The end of lobbying and K Street influence over the American government would come to a grinding halt. Yes, we can, we were promised. But no, he won't.

The end of corrupt, career politicians cherry-picked to sit at the President's side as Cabinet and Department Heads was a thing of the past. Yes, we can, we were promised. But no, he won't.

Honorable GLBT Americans who give their passion and heart, their limbs and their lives would be never be discharged from our Armed Services. Yes, we can, we were promised. But no, he won't.

The illegal kidnapping and holding individuals in foreign countries to avert U.S. law would cease. Yes, we can, we were promised. But no, he won't.

America's disgraceful torture prison on the Cuban island would be closed. Yes, we can, we were promised. But no, he won't.

There would be no more government give-aways to failed, corrupt corporations and bankers. And there would be accounting. Yes, we can, we were promised. But no, he won't.

There would be hundreds of billions of federal dollars targeted for job creation including rapid rail, wind and solar and clean energy. Yes, we can, we were promised. But no, he won't.

The "stimulus" would be directed at those at the bottom of the society, not the top. Yes, we can, we were promised. But no, he won't.

The audacity of hope?

That wasn't audacity. It was mendacity.

[charlie]

1. Boy, are you going to get clobbered

Won't be from me, though. :thumbsup:

[David Zephyr]

31. What a heretic I am, too. I actually believed him and now don't.

I can take the clobbering. Let the un'recs begin. Thanks, charlie.

[dana_b]

126. I gave you a rec

that was good.

[WeDidIt]

2. I'm speechless

because I cannot in good conscience deny a thing you posted.

[David Zephyr]

35. Yeah, and I didn't mention NAFTA...

and just so much more.

The string of broken promises is a long one now.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sweettater]

3. Thank you

You have said what needed to be said. You are correct on all counts. :thumbsup: Sad, isn't it?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[WeDidIt]

7. Everything he posted is true

Not one word is false.

[Cha]

9. No it isn't and you're no one

to claim any shit written about this admin is true..you just jump on anything to whine in.

[WeDidIt]

13. Rah rah, sis boom bah

GO TEAM!

[SammyWinstonJack]

127. +1

:spray: :thumbsup:

[Donnachaidh]

147. bwaahahahahahahah -- choking on the pom poms, ain't they though?

:rofl:

[Orwellian_Ghost]

21. It seems you are ardently

in disagreement with what David posted. At this point it is also evident that you have not taken an analytical approach in your disagreement but have chosen to plug your ears and scream out "No it's not!" with nothing more than that to your articulation.

So now that you've gotten that out of your system could you please take apart David's post point by point and prove the authority by the power of ideas and discussion instead of hysterics?

If you can't do that you are by default proven wrong or at least incoherent and reactionary at every turn.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freddie mertz]

80. I'd be interested to know which points in the OP you think are factually incorrect.

Some are projections of future actions, like public option and closing Gitmo.

But the others seem to have some basis in fact.

Could you help out here?

[Liberation Angel]

89. All of them are false, from beginning to end

for example:

hen did Obama say he would END lobbying?

Jesus.

This is patent bullshit

and it smells worse than bullshit

[rug]

92. When did he say he would continue it?

[David Zephyr]

98. Here are Obama own words on lobbying:

"I have done more to take on lobbyists than any other candidate in this race - and I've won. I don't take a dime of their money, and when I am President, they won't find a job in my White House." -- Presidential Candidate Barack Obama

Sounded great. Sure did.

And then he got elected and hired lobbyists to work in his White House.

[Liberation Angel]

109. not sourced

okay, even of he said it, it was bloviating.

It would be almost IMPOSSIBLE to staff the whte house without SOME people involved in lobbying. EVERYONE in government is basically lobbying all the time for their causes.

So this isn't a promise. It IS however political blather which is hardly the same as deviant prevarication. It is more like wishful thinking and naivete perhaps. But not realisitc nor worth being flustered about/ Sure a lot of these guys are assholes and i agree with you. But it is hardly an egregious lie or much more than rhetoric.

[David Zephyr]

116. The Obama quote that you demand a "source for" is right from Obama's very own Campaign Website

My quote is precise and direct from Obama himself. Sorry to poke another needle in your hot air balloon. Here is his full quote:

"One year from now, we have the chance to tell all those corporate lobbyists that the days of them setting the agenda in Washington are over. I have done more to take on lobbyists than any other candidate in this race - and I've won. I don't take a dime of their money, and when I am President, they won't find a job in my White House."

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/11/03/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_30.php

And as I stated correctly in the OP, Obama then went on to hire lobbyist in his White House. That's mendacity. Some would call it broken promises others might call it lies. Certainly, it was mendacious.

[Liberation Angel]

125. Okay - thanks for the link, that helps

nevertheless it was campaign rhetoric. Unfortunately campaign rhetoric is often hyperbole.

ARE corporate lobbyists setting the agenda in Washington?

I guess that depends on which agenda you are referring to.

While I will concede that such rhetoric is annoying, it is just rhetoric.

You are making a mountain out of a molehill on this point.

My point is that there are all sorts of lobbyists from the right to the left who are career political animals and not all of them are either corrupt or bad or corporofacist. Are CORRUPT corporate lobbyists influencing policy?

If you parse the rhetoric you find that what he is talking about is the corrupt corporate lobbyists running the show under Bush et al.

Almost all (if not all) of these bastards are gone and did not find a job in the white house.

The fact that some lobbyists who Obama believes are decent and necessary in his administration were hired (including, for example, Van Jones, now gone in a noble resignation under the circumstances) does NOT mean Obama is lying or that his statement was mendacious.

The real question is : are corrupt corporate lobbyists setting the agenda or is Obama setting the agenda?

I would argue that Obama is setting the agenda based on his pragmatic politics which DO irk me at times, but which may be realistic and the best we can expect given the corporo-fascist opposition's extraordinary power.

[freddie mertz]

141. "Are CORRUPT corporate lobbyists influencing policy?" YES YES YES.

Exhibit A is the impending fiasco on healthcare.

But we have all known that since Baucus ran his first hearings.

[Bluenorthwest]

164. Is that Christian theology, that lies while trying to get a job

are not lies but rather allowed rhetorical devices? That there are vast periods of many months in which one can say anything and never be accountable?
That is just such a servile argument, devoid of ethics. I mean, if all campaign words are nothing but rhetoric divorced from meaning, then why not just vote by head shot? For the cute one? It is all lies, anyway.
A lie is a lie and while most liars are just liars, there is a certain level of self serving lie that becomes utterly cynical and removed from human emotion.

[Usrename]

184. It's sometimes difficult to look at reality.

But don't you kind of owe it to yourself?

[freddie mertz]

139. And very very disappointing. nt

[Lorien]

135. Then refute his claims point by point with your "facts"

instead of flinging insults like poo.

[ProSense]

156. Prove this is absolutely true:

"Americans would have a government-run health-care program to compete against the private insurance companies. Yes, we can, but no he won't."


The OP is speculative BS disguised as candy for the Obama naysayers.

[undeterred]

8. He said "mendacity", not "menacity"...

and it rings true.

[Cha]

12. I know I left out the fucking d..

No it doesn't ..it's just the latest bullshit whine.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Autumn]

66. Per the DU rules

Do not post personal attacks or engage in name-calling against other individual members of this discussion board. Even very mild personal attacks are forbidden.

Welcome to DU

[David Zephyr]

85. Welcome to the DU. I do hope you will expand your vocabulary by being here.

.

[democracy1st]

11. help me out which one is he lying about?

[David Zephyr]

14. What happened to me? What happened to him and his string of broken promises.

I believed him. You still do. That's OK. That's the only difference here. Belief.

No audacity at all.

To paraphrase Michael York paraphrasing the late Christopher Isherwood: Obama's has been about audacious as an after-dinner mint."

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WeDidIt]

23. Take it apart

You can't because every last word is TRUE!

[Autumn]

25. There is still

"hope" for health care. Faint, but still there.

[WeDidIt]

26. I don't believe in hope any longer

I believe we were sold out in June behind closed doors and Obama's desperately trying to figure out how to break it to us.

[David Zephyr]

30. It's all PR now.

What will be the flavor of the spoonful of sugar with the corporate medicine the Left will be told to swallow.

And what will the disciple brigade's talking points be on Wednesday?

"Obama's desperately trying to figure out how to break it to us." Well said.

[WeDidIt]

40. Yep, we're all about to bend over for the biggest transfer of wealth in world history

and a few insurance company CEOs will receive the lion;s share of that wealth transfer at the expense of the entire middle class and working poor.

[Liberation Angel]

111. That already happened under Bush

Obama is trying to stop it

I wish I knew what you think "WE" did?

Do you support Obama or do you want Romney and palin in 2012 an more rethugs in 2010?


What do WE wan to do NOW?

Solution?

Name ONE!

[WeDidIt]

123. No public option>

I don't give a fuck any moer. Without a public option NAder will have been proven right.

And I have hated NAder for nine fucking years.

[Autumn]

33. God I hope you are

wrong. Too many people need this.

[WeDidIt]

41. I wish I was

I'm 99.44% sure I'm not.

Obama sold us out for thirty pieces of silver.

[bvar22]

150. I'm much more cynical than you.

I believe we were sold out before Obama ever placed his hand on the Bible.
My evidence is the people Obama chose as his cabinet and closest advisers.
These people have a long history of selling out The American Working Class to their Rich Corporate Owners.



ALL the rest of the Health Care Reform debacle has been Kabuki Theater to maintain the illusion. I wouldn't be surprised to find DLC money funding some of the insanity at the Town Hall Meetings. The "Democrats" certainly did NOTHING to stop it or confront it.
Cui Bono?...The Health Insurance Industry, and it lends cover to the Sell Out.

From the start, Health Care Reform was going to be a $Trillion Dollar tax payer gift to the Health Insurance Industry (a wholly owned subsidiary of the Wall Street Banks) who bought The White House. Obama is just the smooth talking front man.


Matt Taibbi sums it up here.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/29988909/sick_and_wrong/1

[rug]

24. Lol, links.

:rofl:

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Donnachaidh]

148. the chorus of *liar liar pants on fire* is getting old

REFUTE where you think the OP is wrong or STFU. Thank you.

[QC]

155. That would require her to do something other than bully and attack.

Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

[ruggerson]

172. +23

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rug]

51. I always find Cha to be quite persuasive.

[inna]

93. wtf is wrong with you?

[ProSense]

157. He's pissed that Hillary wasn't chosen as VP. n/t

[Starry Messenger]

178. Where did you get that info?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4854194

David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-02-08 08:19 PM
Original message

I Will No Longer Advocate Hillary for Obama's VP If She Continues This Nonsense After Tuesday. Updated at 6:50 PM

Hillary Clinton's eleven straight losses (more than Mike Huckabee!) has not been enough to dampen her and Mark Penn's endless and losing campaign. Whether it is ambition, whether it is a sense of entitlement, whether it is for some other reason, it no longer matters to me: Hillary is hurting the Democratic Party and her campaign has become a very petty and nasty one and she's about to lose me for good.

I've been one of the very few Obama supporters who has consistently advocated that Hillary be his Vice President. However, if she continues this nonsense after Tuesday and continues to help John McCain gang up on Barack Obama, I will then be convinced that she would only be a destructive force on Barack's ticket this fall and that he would be better off choosing someone else.

I am certain that even the Super Delegates will begin to peel away from her after Tuesday regardless of what happens. If she can not face the music and wants to continue in her spiral to the bottom, then so be it.

We will learn everything we ever need to know about Hillary Clinton on Wednesday of this week.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5967493

David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed May-14-08 11:35 AM
Original message
Barack Obama Needs Hillary as VP Like a Fish Needs a Bicycle. Updated at 6:50 PM

My daughter worked her way through college, played by all the rules, took her degree and today oversees nearly $2 Billion for a large organization in the midwest. Her husband did not help her with getting her job or attend her job interview. She is also a great wife and mother to my grand-daughter. In her spare time, she is active in her church and is acting as the general contractor overseeing the construction of her new home. Why do I mention this?

Our country is simply overflowing with talented, untapped women who could walk into the White House this afternoon and turn this country around, put it on the right track by 6PM and then still have time enjoy their families and life itself. Moreover, the Democratic Party is rich with talented women, brilliant women, bold and innovative women, seasoned and experienced women any of whom could stand at the side of Senator Obama, strengthen his ticket and chew up John McCain at election time.

It is absurd to entertain even for a single moment that Hillary Clinton could be the only woman to be considered to be Obama's Vice President. And it is insulting.

Having said that, I must say that I believe that Barack Obama should choose a woman to be his Vice President. I have for decades suggested that since every state has two U.S. Senators that one should be for men and the other women. The population is 50/50 anyway so it's really a no-brainer. I really believe it should be the law of the land. 100 Senators with 50 Women and 50 Men. If I could wave a wand today, I'd etch it right into the Constitution. And I think that the same should apply to the Executive Branch for Republicans and Democrats alike. If the Party nominates a woman or a man to be at the top of the ticket, then by golly, the reciprocal should be in the VP position. Period. There's no rationalization that can be made against that argument. In a nation of 300 million citizens, it is outrageous that women are not by mandate and yes by quota (I did use that word) hold 50% of the Senate and share one of the two top positions in the Executive Branch.

Barack Obama should prove he is really for change and demonstrate to the entire world that American women are as valued and respected as much as men. Change does not shut out women. I will be very unhappy if Obama should pick another man to be his VP. I've suggested Senator Barbara Boxer as my favorite pick for a very long time, but the truth is that Barack has an incredibly viable pool of other choices beyond Senator Boxer. Even Senator Dianne Feinstein, with whom I have my differences, would make an outstanding Vice President.

I was happy to see that NARAL endorsed Senator Obama today. It only proves yet again that women are no more monolithic than any other group of Americans.

Finally, with all of the superbly talented and experience women in the U.S.A. and within the Democratic Party, Senator Obama should have no problem whatsoever in selecting his running mate. He is not limited to only Hillary Clinton in making that choice. That somehow Hillary is the only choice is an insulting suggestion. Senator Obama, if you can't find someone, contact me because my daughter might be able to squeeze it into her schedule.

That doesn't sound like someone who was "pissed" about the outcome of the veep choice. David advocated for Hillary for veep as a way to heal the breach caused by the primaries. As an fellow Obama supporter myself I was surprised that David floated it as a proposal so I took careful note of his position and arguments at the time. You must be thinking of someone else.

[Autumn]

6. Damn, I agree with some

of those. K/R

[lbrtbell]

10. I'm so sad to say...

That I agree with them all. Because they're all true. Because progressives have been thrown under the bus for nonexistent "bipartisanship".

Who is this man, and what has he done with Barack Obama? :cry:

[Autumn]

16. I'm waiting to see what happens

on health care . He's still the same man. Welcome to DU.:hi:

[chimpymustgo]

122. Who is Barack Obama?

[1Hippiechick]

15. Big Daddy - Cat on a Hot Tin Roof 1958 "Mendacity" will always remind me of that line by Burl Ives:

"What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Brick? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room?... There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of mendacity... You can smell it. It smells like death."

[David Zephyr]

19. Yes, 1Hippiechick.

[create.peace]

43. thanks for saving me from finding that! i can almost quote it from

heart, but didn't want to miss a word. I think I saw some of the no-neck monsters at the townhall meetings.

[David Zephyr]

44. Tennessee Williams.

Genius.

[create.peace]

48. The original play reads a little different than the film, but it is painfully exquisite anyway....

I have to watch it about once a year....

[1Hippiechick]

120. You may enjoy this link....

http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/c/cat-on-a-hot-tin-roof-script.html

And allow me to quote another favorite scene (I cry every time!): in the basement - Brick and Big Daddy:

Look!
This is what my father left me.
This lousy old suitcase!
On the inside was nothing...but his uniform from the Spanish-American War.
This was his legacy to me.
Nothing at all!
And I built this place from nothing.
And that's all he left you?
Yeah, he was a hobo.
Best-known tramp on the boxcar circuit.
He worked once in a while as a field hand.
I'd tag along.
Sat on my bare bottom, in the dirt,waiting for him.
Outside of hunger...
...first thing I could remember is shame.
I was ashamed of that miserable, old tramp.
I was riding boxcars when I was nine,
something you never had to do.
And you'll never have to bury me like I did him.
I buried him in a meadow,alongside a railroad track.
We were running to catch a freight and his heart gave out.
You know something?
That lousy old tramp died laughing.
Laughing at what?
Himself, I guess.
A hobo tramp......not a nickel in his jeans.
No future, no past.
Or maybe he was laughing because he was happy. Happy at having you with him.
He took you everywhere and he kept you with him.
I don't want to talk about that.
Yeah, I loved him.
I reckon I never loved anything as much as that......lousy old tramp.
And you say...he left you nothing but a suitcase......with a uniform in it from the Spanish-American War?
And some memories.
And love.
Did I tell you all them stories about my old man?
About fifty times.

[create.peace]

151. thanks! great site, i started reading it, and just had to make myself stop!...nt

[AzDar]

17. K & R & ...

:cry:

[KoKo]

18. We listened to an Incredibly Gifted Orator...and in the end

the promise seems hollow now that the reality is upon us.

I think of those gifted preachers who have followers in the thousands who flock to them and give them money. People feel empowered by the incredible sermons and the atmosphere of joy that is in the faithful flocks who follow. But, in the end ...somewhere down the road, the message turns out to be something much different than what was promised.

[create.peace]

46. at the conference on media reform a year ago june, van jones told us obama, his friend, said to hold

his feet to the fire....

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dana_b]

129. oh my

that's exactly what I was thinking this morning. He is probably the greatest orater of my lifetime (I was too young to hear Dr. King). He really made you feel like things were changing. Yes, I did listen to his policies and raised more than one eyebrow at them but, as so many love to throw in our faces, who was I going to vote for - Cynthia McKinney?? (No, I wouldn't ever consider the other alternative).


He sure gives a good speech though, eh? :eyes:

[Bluenorthwest]

169. Well the greatest is a bit much

For he has only given addresses under the best of circumstances. If he can turn it out after being shown to be human, and remake his mojo, as it were, then we can check again.

But the real greats, like King, do not make you feel like things are changing, they make things change.

[unkachuck]

20. K&R....n/t

[treestar]

27. Insane

You've lost your mind. Gitmo is being closed, for one.

Grow up.

[rug]

29. It's only been 8 months.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

37. No you are wrong

Do you believe what you just wrote?

If so it is you who have left your faculties.

Do you even know what is happening to the people in GITMO? Do you know what is occurring in the numerous detention centers that the US runs around the globe? You cannot possibly be serious here.

Growing up means paying attention. Please start.

Look, most of the so-called terrorists who reside in GITMO are simply going to be transferred. And so your retort is akin to celebrating the the improvement of the neighborhood as the people who resided there were moved out.

[Starry Messenger]

28. I'm usually pretty cynical by nature...

but I really thought that a few of these would be in train by now. Guantanamo and equality for LGBT are my big issues and it seemed like there were clear paths to success there. The corporate stuff I'm apathetic about promises there since working people always get sold down the river by members of our own party, but I did dare to hope a little. Maybe it's from living in California. It might as well still be the Bush years for us here. Very scary.

[katandmoon]

32. K&R

[dorktv]

34. I never viewed the man as the be all end all so I am not disappointed.

I wanted Truman but knew I would get Carter. It happens.

And before a certain someone jumps on me, Carter did a lot more good then people give him credit for...just hard to see when compared to giants like FDR, Truman and LBJ.

[valerief]

90. Hell, I wish we had Nixon's health care proposal now. nt

[dorktv]

113. Nope, single payer as Truman evisioned works best.

and the bill was only eighty three pages!

[valerief]

149. Well, duh, of course, single payer is best, but how do we get it in our third world country? nt

[dorktv]

189. I always say duct tape is the answer.

[TahitiNut]

36. ...

[Liberation Angel]

38. OKAY - this is extreme right wing sloganeering/I guess you too oppose Obama speaking to our kid

Do a google search for "the Mendacity of Hope"

and you will find that it orignated with the right wing Rockford Institute and Chronicles magazine they publish.

Some quotes from their website:


Chronicles has become the toughest, best written, and most profoundly insightful journal in America. It drives the nail as deep and true as any magazine in print.”

—Patrick J. Buchanan


“Chronicles is the leading voice of authentic conservatism in the United States.”

—Paul Likoudis, The WandererI
http://www.rockfordinstitute.org/?page_id=2

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/index.php/2008/10/01/the-mendacity-of-hope—october-2008/


This is some right wing bullshit that only helps the republicans.

Obama is hamstrung by the right already

don't help them


"

[rug]

39. Read the entire OP. This is not about sloganeering.

[WeDidIt]

42. Not a thing David Zephyr posted is false

Face it.

Obama fucked us all.

[Liberation Angel]

45. These are right wing talking points and sloganeering

on top of that a fair deconstruction of these arguments is difficult because not ONE of the claims is based on any definite or referenced fact.

Because the expression originated with a right wing think tank it SMELLS.

This deserves all the unrecs progressives can muster

[WeDidIt]

47. IT's a factual list of this adminsitrations failings

It is truth.

You simply ignore truth.

[rug]

49. Which of those points is the right wing rallying around?

Keeping the lobbyists? Rendition?

Blow your nose.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

81. The wrongwing are rallying around the "social" issues,... we know Dems are more

kinder and gentler than the GOP...but if the wrongwingers really wanted to hurt Obama, in the eyes of all decent Americans, they would shine a bright light upon the issues brought up in David's insightful post.

[WeDidIt]

84. That's as twisted as Glenn Beck logic

:eyes:

[Starry Messenger]

52. David was one of Obama's biggest supporters here...

last year. If you can't figure out the difference between left wing criticism and right wing abuse, then you fail Politics 101.

[WeDidIt]

55. I'm beginning to see that Obama is going to be probably the single BEST

Republican president in the past sixty years.

[Liberation Angel]

64. I have a degree in political science

Propoganda is a specialty of mine.

Just because someone claims to be a supporter does not mean they are.

Nothing in this OP rings true to me AT ALL (with a few minor exceptions)

And I am a harsh critic of Obama sometimes.

The REASON many of these things have not been accomplished is because the right wing is too powerful (and that includes the centrist-right democrats) NOT because Obama ill not or would not do them.

I have no doubt that if he had better support nd les oposition he would accomplsih ll of those things and more.

This is reactionary bullshyte IMHO.

[rug]

67. The first rule of propaganda is to ignore the facts.

[Starry Messenger]

68. lol

You're funny. I've been here for years and I am familiar with David Zephyr's posts. Use your star and do a search on his name. Your defense of the status quo is "reactionary bullshyte". Where did that poli sci degree come from, pray tell?

[WeDidIt]

71. I'm thinking

the same place Orly Taitz got her law degree.

[rug]

76. I'm thinking

the same place Orly Taitz got her dental degree.

[QC]

97. What's the degree? If you're going to do the credentialist fallacy, then do it up right. n/t

[Liberation Angel]

108. Undergraduate - BA

Interdisciplinary.

I also have a doctorate. No lie.

and I worked for many years in the trenches against opression and fascism.

Propaganda is a specialty of mine as is agitprop.

Zephyr may or may not be sincere.

But this post is just a lot of unsustainable blather.

To me it undermines the goals the OP claims to have. If he wans these things he needs to fight harder for them, not help Romney get elected in 2012 and more rethugs next year. by bashing Obama with groundless and unsupportable nonsense.

[David Zephyr]

118. You boasted in your post, "Propoganda (sic) is a specialty of mine." Learn to spell it first.

You might want to learn how to spell propaganda, before you tell folks that your "specialty is propOganda" (again, sic)

Anyway, the DU is not for propaganda, but honest discussion.

At least you were honest and told us that your "specialty" is "propoganda (sic)". I'll keep that in mind when I read your posts.

[Liberation Angel]

137. I almost always misspell propaganda: trivial pursuit

I am also a lousy typist.

Big deal.

My point is that right wing propaganda disguised as left wing criticism is agitprop which helps the right and undermines Obama's ability to get anything done. Such propaganda tactics have been around for more than a century. Corporate fascist feed the antiprogressive memes via outlets on the left to undermine progressives' support and further right wing agendas.

You are playig right into their hands AND the meme you use was CREATED by a right wing think tank.

How do you even begin to justify that?

[David Zephyr]

72. Yep. Starry Messenger, I was a hope monger. I believed.

First, thanks for pointing this out to those who weren't here all of last year and missed my daily pro-Obama threads throughout 2008. Still, here's what is sad here:

It's hard to swallow the truth about someone you trusted, who you believed, hell, who you loved.

I understand the Disciple complex and the anger I've generated by stepping away from the altar of adulation.

I probably identify more closer with those still defending Obama's sell out than than not.

But, 40 years of left-wing activism is dearer to me than the aspirations of a politician, especially one who is so comfortable in breaking sacred promises.

Obama likes his new digs. I'm happy for him.

It was a historic event for him, but not the poor and not the working class of America.

He's weak.

[WeDidIt]

74. I made my first donation to Obama's campaign on February 10, 2007

I made my first donation to his Senatorial campaign almost three years earlier.

[Starry Messenger]

83. I remember your posts and threads without having to search.

I feel your disappointment coming off the page really vividly here. ((hug))

[David Zephyr]

103. Great disappointment.

Thanks.

[Liberation Angel]

86. Zephyr attacked Obama in 2007 (link)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2248793#2253254

and as near as I can tell is still riding the horse that says Obama has abandoned the public option.

Just wanted the record to be clear:

I am frustrated with Obama on many counts, but it is not because Obama is a liar (I think he has been pretty straight on many issues)

But the OP was bashing Obama before the primaries even began

AND the "Mendacity of Hope" meme STARTED at a right wing think tank.
Think about it...

[David Zephyr]

94. That was a defense of my friend Tom.

And I am proud of that OP.

And if, you are an honest one, you will see thousands of posts throughout 2008 in greater support of Barack Obama than you even offer today. IF you are honest.

By the way, I admire your loyalty. I really do. I just choose policy over personality. At some point, so will you. And I'll be here.

[Liberation Angel]

106. I get that and that pissed me off too

but you did bash him back then, to be fair.

I kind of missed what he said then, saying he wasn't a "Tom Hayden" democrat?

Big deal. He had to distance himself from people too far on the left (and who were married to Jane Fonda, I remind you).

i LOVE Hayden and it was an unnecessary slam, but it was a smart political move, though not pretty.

It doesn;t mean much.

Look - I have provided a point by point rebuttal of your claims which makes the most sense.

My position is that the right is trying to undermine his support on the left and so buying into some of the propaganda (like their phrase "the mendacity of hope" designed by a right wing "chirstian" think tank (really you should be ashamed unless you just thought it was original, but even then your justification fails) ONLT hurts GLBT's and ALL of humanity.

Obama is TRYING to do the things he promised. ut the Fourth Reich is rooted VERY deep in this country and the world and will not be easily rooted out. Obama can only make a dent in it.

And I think he is really trying in most ways (with the main objection I have with respect to his policy in Afghanistan)

Other than that i believe that with our support MUCH of this agenda will come about, at least incrementally.

Consider the deadly alternatives if we tear Obama down and Mitt Romney and Palin win in 2012.

[David Zephyr]

165. I took it from Tennessee Williams play.

I'm gay, by the way. Tennessee Williams, Truman Capote are icons to me. You shouldn't assume the worst. And honestly, which of my criticisms are "right wing talking points". You'll never hear those jackals saying what I said. I'm on your side. So is Bill Moyers.

Van Jones didn't need to be sacrificed. That beast will never be satisfied.

Obama has to punch back. Twist and break arms, if needed. LBJ did. See my poem in the other forum. I'm on your side. We need Obama to fight back. He's signaling weakness every time he caves.

I'm older than you. The GOP is the same monster it was even back with Roosevelt. They will not change or come along. It's insane to wish for it. It's lethal politically to believe it.

[Bluenorthwest]

170. I got the reference, it is very obvious

I met Tennessee once. And audacity comes to mind about him, certainly.

[David Zephyr]

173. I'm madly jealous of you now.

You met Tennessee? Wow. I wish I could say that. :hi:

[Starry Messenger]

95. Again, I hope that degree wasn't from an accredited uni.

I'm sorry you mistake analysis for "attack". You must be some young thing. Don't worry. Black and white thinking is usually outgrown with age. :hug:

[rug]

96. GASP!

He actually attacked Obama in 2007?

[David Zephyr]

102. Gasp.

Thousands and thousands of my posts supporting Obama and this one finds a post where I defend a friend from a cheap shot that was beneath someone I admired and who was also supporting Obama. I'd forgotten that OP about Tom, and I should put it into my journal.

[rug]

104. It's a solid, authentic post.

[Overseas]

145. Thanks for the link to Tom Hayden's letter.

It is beautifully written and raises many of the questions I still have, even though I too voted for President Obama, full of hope.

I had hoped that even though I saw some awkward moderating of progressive ideas and distancing from the Democratic Party's non-corporate base, he would market the long-term economic viability of progressive solutions. They are often the most logical. I thought he would demonstrate bipartisanship by taking good solutions out of the two-party model and into the format of addressing shared goals.

And although I know how thoroughly successful the right wing has been in moving our national dialogue way over to the right, I'd hoped he'd bypass the propaganda machine and talk problems and solutions. Rather than tossing out the best ideas because Democrats liked them better than Republicans did.

We need bold solutions, so I am also very disappointed at the Democratic Party's failure to impeach Bush and Cheney for their many high crimes and misdemeanors, even before we elected a Democratic president and majorities in both houses. The abuses the Bush Cheney Gang committed should have brought both parties together in outrage. But we had the successfully right-dominated media to gloss things over.

I think such an impeachment, or a vigorous prosecution now, would wake up a lot of people to how far off track the Bush Gang took this country, and help them realize we need to make dramatic changes in how we operate in the global community. Look squarely at what the Bush Gang did in our name. Do we really want to continue business as was usual for the Bush gang ? Do we not want to hold people accountable for their war crimes so that others won't just take up where they left off?

Yes, I definitely cling to all the good news. I have been glad to see the more respectful, diplomatic approach President Obama has taken to some foreign relations. But then my spirits sink to see our deepening involvement in Afghanistan and slow detachment from Iraq, and no bold moves to de-privatize military services, even though war profiteering really hurt our international reputation and viability as a military power.

[David Zephyr]

166. My pleasure.

Tom has been an icon of mine since I was a teenager in the '60's.

[ruggerson]

161. Who are you?

Joe McCarthy? What's this bullshit you're spewing about David's bona fides as a progressive?

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberation Angel]

57. Frankly NONE of these statements are true and most are totally baseless

It also reeks of the same kind of hate that is being propagated by the right with respect to the school talk: i.e. calling Obama a LIAR and a defective human being is akin to -----

well - you tell me what it is akin t:

Mendacious:from M.Fr. mendacieux, from L. mendacium "a lie," from mendax (gen. mendacis) "lying, deceitful," related to menda "fault, defect, carelessness in writing" (cf. amend, mendicant), from PIE base *mend- "physical defect, fault." The sense evolution of mendax influenced by mentiri "to speak falsely, lie, deceive." Mendacity is attested from 1646.


If one reads through these statements of biased opinion carefully they are not sourced promises by Obama nor are the conclusions based on facts that are demonstrable.

Some of these things remain to be done and so saying Obama will NOT do them is blather.

But if you had not used a term coined by the RIGHT to attack Obama I might be convinced that on some of these points you can make an argument that he MAY fail to fulfill his promises. But even still it is not because he LIED but because the opposition of the right wing, racists and posters like the OP are making it impossible.

You may have made these arguments in good faith. Maybe not.

But the spirit of this is pure right ring hate disguised as left wing hate.

[WeDidIt]

58. Bullshit, every last statement is 100% true n/t

[Liberation Angel]

60. Provide links then" first, to the promises and second to the LIES

If we spent as much time fighting the right as we did in a circular firing squad we might get sonehwere

[WeDidIt]

61. Nope, Obama has failed on every last one of those promises

and you cannot prove he hasn't.

[rug]

65. So, are you saying he promised to do all that and is therefore not a liar?

[Autumn]

70. The promises are well known

to anyone who paid attention during the campaign. As to what you consider lies , you really can't miss them.

[Starry Messenger]

107. Good night nurse.

Your last OP that I remember was wondering innocently what was wrong with Ron Paul. Please bow out of this convo.

[Liberation Angel]

110. Baloney -

First, post the thread if you want to cite it.

Second, I made it clear that I had a friend who was a ron paul supporter (after the election) and I wanted info or dirt on Paul because I wanted it to see what my friend's political views were. I knew DU had the info. That was it.

You cast aspersions that are unfounded.

I was a Kucinich supporter. I find Paul reprehensible on most issues (except the war)

But I voted for Obama.

Paul is a creep

[Starry Messenger]

119. "You cast aspersions that are unfounded."

:eyeroll:

You are the person making baseless claims in the thread LA. Instead of slandering a longtime DU-er, use the search function.

[rug]

62. Nope, looks like he's already done eveything on that list.

[kid a]

69. I told my wife I'd take out the trash before Thursday morning.

I hope she doesn't kick me out of the house tomorrow!

Rug...We Did It, David you guys are fucking hilarious!!!
I'm enjoying this thread for its hyperbolic stupidity.

:toast:

[BlooInBloo]

73. It's official. I'll be more happy when Obama wins re-election because of the bitter tears...

of you folks, than of republicans'.

It was wonderful the first time. Second time will be even better.

[rug]

75. I'll be happier if he delivers than if he's re-elected.

[David Zephyr]

82. Imagine that. He actually would deliver on his promises...

Change you can believe in, but that you'll never see.

Perhaps this is why he's so comfy with the "faith based community". It's Holy Ghost Politics: Believing something is there when it's not.

[Liberation Angel]

112. Divide and Conquer much?

We have already seen massive change in this country.
Just MASSIVE!

The Fourth Reich is doing everything in its power to hurt Obama and to weaken America and confidence in Obama.

You are feeding red meat to the right wing.

Why bash people of Faith, Zephyr?

What the fuck is wrong with people believing in SOMETHING spiritual?

Kind of smarmy cleverness, i guess, but more appropriate for Bush et al.

But I do think this is a low blow.

I know that fake Christians etc are an easy target.

But I would not put Obama in that category.

I have faith. I believe in things that are invisible (like sound).

I also believe that Obama is and will change things for the better (even while he will fail as any human battling the fourth reich would on many fronts)

[Neecy]

79. Do you really think he'll win

Without the activist base that helped elect him the first time?

Dream on.

[BlooInBloo]

88. People like you are why I can't wait.

EDIT: Helps when you don't forget a word - lol!

[Neecy]

91. well, that was incoherent

[WeDidIt]

99. People wait like are why I can't

[rug]

100. People, wait . . .

I think that's the message.

[Neecy]

101. People are like kitty cats but can't.

[girl gone mad]

114. so all that matters to you is winning?

what a sad state of political affairs this country is in. sigh.

[ruggerson]

167. He definitely will win reelection. Cautious, co-opting Presidents always do.

Wilson, Nixon, Clinton and now Obama.

But here I thought the objective was to change the country, not get one politician reelected.

Stupid, I know.

[mix]

180. More Bloo dog apologetics.

He ain't gonna win a second term without the energy and ideas of progressives/liberals.

[glitch]

77. The Mendacity of Nope nt

[snake in the grass]

78. The more things change...

...the more they stay the same!

[QC]

87. Living dangerously, are we? n/t

[Liberation Angel]

105. Fuck it: Point by point rebuttal of the OP's bogus claims

1.Americans would have a government-run health-care program to compete against the private insurance companies.
He is fucking TRYING, man!

2.The rule of law and the penalty of the law would apply to the rich as it does to the poor.

What is this even BASED on? He is investigating the crimes at the TOP and prosecuting white collar criminals. You have given NO examples. Period. None.

3,The end of lobbying and K Street influence over the American government would come to a grinding halt.

The END of Lobbying? WTF? The end of K Street Influence? Obama could not do that even if he wanted to unless he OUTLAWED lobbying which would violate the first amendment. The end of improper influence and lobbying? He is working on it and has passed rules and laws implementing this.

4. The end of corrupt, career politicians cherry-picked to sit at the President's side as Cabinet and Department Heads was a thing of the past.

WHO precisely are the corrupt career politicians and what evidence do you have? Of COURSE he will cherry pick his cabinet and they will be career politicians he has made some WONDERFUL choices and some I don't like so much. But the operative word in yur claim is corrupt. WHICH are the corrupt ones (I might even agree)? But this is way too vague and undocumented to have any seriousness. Many of his choices are politically expedient - but if you can PROVE corruption beyond vagaries, fucking DO IT! Just being pissed because they have ties to business or banking is not enough. PROVE or provide evidence of their being corrupt because THAT is what you are claiming.



5. Honorable GLBT Americans who give their passion and heart, their limbs and their lives would be never be discharged from our Armed Services.

When did he promise this and how do you know it will not happen? It may well happen when he has the political strength and support to pull it off. Right now he is having a tough time because of the lis of the fascist right. Maybe it is too slow but you hve no evidece he will not do it. None. DODT is being reviewed nd may be gone when he can get it done and not endanger the agenda for ALL of us. I agree with that but is a public option worth risking to rescing DODT today, for example? By undermining him here you are undermining his ability to eliminate DODT and other


6.The illegal kidnapping and holding individuals in foreign countries to avert U.S. law would cease. Yes, we can, we were promised.

There is no evidence for this claim at all. ONE man was arrested and extradited (properly imo)so far. Maybe Obama reserves the option for now, which sucks, but there is NO EVIDENCE he is doing it or will do ti

7. America's disgraceful torture prison on the Cuban island would be closed.
Bullshit: he is closing it. The opposition to closing it is fierce and the problems inherent in doing it are difficult - but it is happening.

8.There would be no more government give-aways to failed, corrupt corporations and bankers. And there would be accounting.

There IS accounting. It is online. Again, you cannot PROVE corruption and "failure" and even progressive economists say the stimulus bill was too small. Failure of banks was, from the perspective of many, not an option. Some banks have payed the money back already. You have no real data here just generalizations. You have to PROVE corruption before you can play this card and support your claim. Corrupt is just to vague a term to hold any water. the whole damn system is corrupt: its fucking corprorate fascism. Obama is not goig to be able to change that, and certainly not overnight.


9. There would be hundreds of billions of federal dollars targeted for job creation including rapid rail, wind and solar and clean energy.

This is in fact happening. Where have you been? On top of that the energy bill has not even been done yet. It is coming up soon.

10. The "stimulus" would be directed at those at the bottom of the society, not the top.

First, you have a link for that claim? Second, there are TONS of stimulus funds directed at the bottom of society. Just extending the unemployment compemsation for six months kept millions from starving. My household is included in that as two of my kids were laid off and could colect until they got new work. The college programs etc also have and will make a HUGE difference. So will many other elements of his plan.

You are plainly talking out of an orifice which should usually remain unseen except by close loved ones who want to see it or need to.
.

[girl gone mad]

115. Just on your second point..

The administration is doing almost nothing to prosecute the criminals behind the banking crisis. In fact, Obama appointed one of the architects of the bailouts to head the Treasury department. If anything, they have been aiding and abetting the financial terrorists on Wall Street. Visit the economy forum or the SMW thread where the goings on are covered daily.

[Liberation Angel]

131. If you have specifics that would help/or links

If there are actual criminals who need prosecuting NAME them.

From what I have seen the banking crisis was precipitated by Bush policies and rules which allowed LEGAL (though corrupt) actions.

How can Obama or Holder prosecute things that are not illegal?

But if you have specifics or links to threads then I can respond to that.

I see this issue of Obama bashing as important. And I agree that Obama should prosecute criminals where crimes were committed (and Holder and Congress must investigate).

But a generalized argument like this with no specifics or individuals or actual crimes is simply rhetorical Obama bashing.

Obama has a full plate trying to do MANY excellent things.

This sort of generalized bashing just undermines his ability to get anything positive done.

[David Zephyr]

117. You are either very lazy or intellectually dishonest. See your own post #109 and my #116.

Every word I wrote in the OP is factual. Even when I provided you Obama's wording, you wouldn't believe it (it's on his own website, for pete's sake) and then you had to have a source which you will then dismiss, too.

Once again, here are Obama's words and the promise he made about lobbyists: ""One year from now, we have the chance to tell all those corporate lobbyists that the days of them setting the agenda in Washington are over. I have done more to take on lobbyists than any other candidate in this race - and I've won. I don't take a dime of their money, and when I am President, they won't find a job in my White House." http://www.barackobama.com/2007/11/03/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_30.php

And as I stated correctly in the OP, Obama then went on to hire lobbyist in his White House. That's mendacity. Some would call it broken promises others might call it lies. Certainly, it was mendacious.

Every word is true. I will ignore you from now on because you are not comfortable with facts.

And the facts are that Obama hired lobbyists in his White House. Period.

[Liberation Angel]

128. See my response post #125/ Mountains, Mole Hills and obfuscation

without specifics it is hard to debate, Zephyr.

Rather than counter-rebut this point by point you choose to ingore the arguments?

With respect to lobbyists his statement (which you have NOW linked and cited) relates to the corrupt corporate lobbyists which ran the show under Bush.

Nw it is true that "lobbyists" on a myriad of issues have been hired, but the rhetoric he used related to the corporate lobbyists of the Bush ilk.

But the reality is that you have countr-argued ONE point out of EIGHT and not very soundly.

If your goal is to undermine Obama then such a tactic is effective where you neither provide evidence for your claims nor bother to address the weaknesses in your argument.

Believe me, there are some things about this presidency that I find very worrisome (afghanistan at the top of the list) but most of what you claim here is without foundation. It is rhetorical and speculative (who knows WHAT Obama will accomplish ESPECIALLY when the far right and the far left keep trying to hobble and lynch him?)

Obama may yet deliver on many of these promises.

But the fact that he hired "lobbyists" (when all of washington with political experience are lobbyists of all stripes from left to right, from Unions to environmentalists to women's rights and , yes, to business) is making too much out of nothing.

He promised to get the corrupt Bush lobbyist bastards out and he did.

We can argue all day about the wisdom of many of his appointments and hires, but he has made some GREAT choices and some that suck. But that's life. There is nothing dishonest or mendacious about that. Your claims are obfuscatory and rhetorical. Sounds great to your cheerleaders, but is without basis in fact.

Why do you not counter-argue the points I raised point by point?

That would be intellectually honest.

[HamdenRice]

121. I agree entirely, but you have to realize that the whiners are not "fact-based"

You can cite all the laws and regulations concerning the end of extraordinary rendition, for example, and they will just deny it.

At this point, you are not dealing with a rational person making an argument; you are dealing with hard core cognitive dissonance that is impervious to fact based arguments.

[Liberation Angel]

136. I have tried to get a fact-based discussion, but I agree that "congitive dissonance" rules

bottom line is that it is simple Obama bashing with no factual basis (or very little)

It hurts the causes that the OP claims to support.

[ruggerson]

162. Your point #5

is not even coherent.

[Bluenorthwest]

176. What is DODT?

Is that part of why Obama hires Blackwater and fires GLBT people? This DODT? Makes it easy to think you know what you are talking about, advanced degrees and all. DODT. Don't Overstate Democratic Temerity? Dudes Often Drive Topless? You tell me, DODT.

[spanone]

124. i see it more as such a fucked up country that there is little hope...one man can do little

[Bluerthanblue]

130. you thought you were electing a God- most of us knew we were

electing a leader. One who ALWAYS pointed out that it was only through our combined power- the power of WE not he- or me- but WE to change what is into what can be.

Your post shows that all you are willing to contribute to the efforts we are STILL engaged in is negative, destructive and self-pitying whining. It serves to divide and discourage.

If this is the best you can offer, then when all IS said and done, you may want to ask yourself whether your contributions helped to get us where we wanted to be, or worked against us-

:shrug:

[saltpoint]

132. I'm unrec'ing this post with as much prejudice as a mouse click can render.

There's just not going to be a perfect enough world for you, David Z.

You're too pure for the context of Reality itself.

Maybe you should work a soup kitchen someplace before you decide that the world's woes can be lightswitched into balance.

"Mendacity," you write.

Shame on you.

[Liberation Angel]

138. "Mendacity of Hope" is a right wing Meme created by the Rockford Institute

you can look it up.

[saltpoint]

140. It does have a subversive, propagandistic feel to it. So I don't doubt

that the Right has slipped it into the dialogue.

[Karenina]

179. Just add "mendacity" to "socialistpinkocommiefascist" and STIR.

(throw in the tiniest pinch of the UNSPOKEN n-word for an msg effect!)

[tomm2thumbs]

133. I see no clobbering /nt

[Liberation Angel]

134. WHY no response to fact that "Mendacity" meme was developed by a "Christian" think tank?

A right wing think tank started this "Mendacity of Hope" rhetorical meme.

Why is there no response to that? Where is the outrage?

I posted the links upthread.

Google "mendacity of Hope" and Rockford Institute (Their Chronicle Magazine published this phrase in 2008"

THEY ARE A RGHT WING THINK (sic)TANK!

This is a right wing meme being floated here as left wing critique.

Why is there no response to this fact?

[Bluerthanblue]

142. to me, it isn't the "meme" or where it came from- it's the stupidity

and the self-centered, destructive need to simply moan and whine about things that have NOT happened yet- and to place all responsibility on the President, when posts like Mr. Zephyr's only serve to insure failure, and encourage apathy and defeatist attitudes.

IMO that old cliche "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" fits well here.

There's a HUGE difference between constructive criticism, and self-righteous negative postulating- This OP is not constructive, or helpful to anyone. imo-

[Karenina]

153. On the contrary, Btb!

It IS helpful to those who have a visceral agenda. I've heard any number of Obama's "dog whistles" and seen very little ability on the left to hear them and respond constructively. The RW hears the ones directed at their basest instincts by "Rwanda Radio" INSTANTANEOUSLY and behave accordingly. These days any distinction between the two has become a bit cloudy. There is a difference between "holding someone's feet to the fire" and demonization.

[Starry Messenger]

152. Because your "facts" are incorrect.

A simple google timeline search shows that this phrase has been in existence for longer than Oct. 2008. You are wrong. Period. Full stop.

Occam's razor: Audacity rhymes with mendacity. It's a turn of phrase that comes easily to mind.

But you've already shown a tendency to pick out links with a confirmation bias, so even my response here is being too nice.

[WillyT]

143. There's No Place Like Hope, There's No Place Like Hope, There's No...

:shrug:

[SandWalker1984]

144. You forgot the waffles....

My family and many others fought hard to get Obama elected. We were elated when he won because we thought, hoped and dreamed that someone was going to Washington that would represent the people instead of the corporations.

The first red flag went up when Obama began filling his staff with previous Clinton people. How do you create change if you bring in mainly former Washington insiders?

The 2nd red flag was hiring Rahm E for chief of staff. He is a known DLC (Democrats Love Corporations) insider.

It seems every major policy issue that comes up for Obama is also sending up another red flag. He's doing the "Washington" thing instead of the right thing, the promised thing.

Now I am beginning to think we have President Waffle the 2nd. Those that were around for the Clinton 2 terms know what I mean.

A man that cannot stand up for his own convictions stands for nothing.

(And to all those DUers that think you cannot disagree with your president or party when they do wrong -- SHUT UP! I donate, I campaign, I vote and therefore I have that right to speak my opinion when I think they have their collective heads up their asses!)

[FreedomTrain]

146. Spot on.

I was never one to blindly believe we'd be in paradise as soon as he was elected, but I didn't think it'd be this bad either.

[ProSense]

154. Wow, if people want to rec speculative BS, this is the perfect OP

"Americans would have a government-run health-care program to compete against the private insurance companies. Yes, we can, but no he won't."

FAIL

I notice you left out tranparency, possibly because this will be the most transparent in history?

CREW AND OBAMA ADMINISTRATION REACH HISTORIC LEGAL SETTLEMENT...(will also release Bush-era records)

Yes, we can, and he did.

[Karenina]

160. I should very much like to reply but

our site is quite "buggy" at the moment. Suffice to say, :yourock:

[ooglymoogly]

174. Gee and here I thought that was because of a couple lawsuits

that he fought till the last stone was squeezed and even still this much vaunted transparency is nothing when it is obscured by too many loopholes to have any teeth. And what about FISA, huh, huh, what about FISA?; And how does that square with the constitution.

[Bluerthanblue]

175. i rec. this reply- and unrec the OP

there isn't much 'we' in the OP's perspective- it's always someone elses problem/fault/responsibility.

With 'supporters' like Mr. Zephyr, who needs enemies.?

:shrug:

[Usrename]

187. The prophet Orwell warned about this!

Don't be so easily fooled by the sloganeering. War is not peace, ignorance is not strength.

Like the "Obama Closes Gitmo" story, when in REALITY he actually chose to keep it open. His first act as President.

In this recent case, Obama claims to have turned over the Cheney visitor records, but take a look yourself:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/blog/Former_VP_records.pdf

For those who cannot open pdf files, don't bother, the records are completely redacted.

On the White House blog, they call this "http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6464964&mesg_id=6464964">Opening Up the People’s House."

And folks like you are REALLY proud about it. Open your eyes.

It is every bit as infuriating, to some of us, as Bush's "Blue Sky Initiative" lingo.

[Usrename]

188. If only it were true, then you might be on to something.

Don't believe everything that you read at the White House website. The VP records seem to be completely redacted. Go look for yourself. By the way, I would LOVE to be wrong about this. Please prove me wrong.

[Apollo11]

158. So it's Obama's fault that Senators won't let him have a public option?

I share your disappointment on many of the issues in your OP. But if the President of the US had unlimited power to realize his agenda -- Bush43 would have privatized Social Security.

The President has to work with the Senators and Representatives in Congress. All he can do is push them to go further than they would otherwise have gone. Let's see how well he does in his speech this coming Wednesday.

[nightrain]

159. knr. Good work David. I support your post.

[mix]

163. You forgot Afghanistan, another tragic choice of the Obama administration. nt

[ProSense]

168. The best way to counter nonsense is with

facts

[Liberation Angel]

182. Absolutely essential reading, Prosense. Point by point factual rebuttal of this OP

Amazing that it has nowhere near the recs that this OP has.

Scary actually.

What has DU become?

Your post is a must bookmark whenever such bogus toxic horsepoop arises

[Name removed]

171. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Karenina]

177. May you receive all the validation you wish for your stance

and the gubmint you so richly deserve.

[Apollo11]

183. Your post is not consistent with DU rules

"Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office."

[DerekG]

185. That's what I'm asking

Didn't anyone take even a cursory glance at his associates? Or his voting record in the Senate? Or his financiers?

Anyone could have seen this coming. All they had to do was look past those amorphous speeches and turn on their brains.

[Liberation Angel]

181. A Right wing Meme is a right wing meme: "Mendacity of Hope" is a right wing meme

Blame it on Tennessee Williams?

Richard Cohen Used it. Anti-choice acitivists use it. The right wing Christian Rockford Institute uses it

and the OP uses it.

This is just hateful bashing of Obama.

Support it if you want to destroy all hope and possibilities for change.

[alcibiades_mystery]

186. More "Obama is a liar" posts

Fantastic.

You sure you don't mean "Lying scumbag weasel?"

:eyes: