What if the Dems start a National Democratic Healthcare Co-Op that self-insures?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

Wouldn't that be hysterical? No shoving insurance down the throats of ignorant tea-baggers or Republicans or even Blue Dogs since no one says you have to join. A gigantic co-op that could include 52% of the country with low premiums, negotiated drug prices, no prior conditions, no rescissions, etc. The pool would definitely be large enough to blow the competition out of the water and show the Repubs how it's done. Perhaps it could be structured as a charitable non-profit and any contributions outside of premiums could be tax deductible.

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REAL WORLD

My reading so far and from listening to some folks this morning tells me that a co-op as of now can only be state-wide in scope. This has to do with the regulatory powers of the states over insurers. BUT,the Feds oversee and regulate any company that self-insures as part of ERISA. They also monitor COBRA because it's part of HIPPA. Got that? Repubs on the talk shows this morning were asking for a national insurance market, which actually makes sense to me. There are large variances state to state in numbers of insurers available.

[KoKo]

1. Mike Pence was saying that they want more insurance companies involved across state lines.

He said right now many states only have one insurer and opening it up would allow competition for new insurrers to come in. Reminded me of when we did away with banking regulation and allowed banks to cross state lines which supposedly gave more competition. How did that one work out?

Repugs would love nothing more than to allow crap insurers to start up...take money for policies and then never pay them out. Who would be in charge of regulation? Probably the same kind of folks in charge of Banking Regulation. How did that one work out?

These "exchanges" are a Trojan Horse for folks to jump into the health insurance business with opportunities for "fly by night" operators to sell bad products to folks who don't have much alternative. And, we'd probably subsidize it like we did with all those "no doc mortgage loans" and the rest that's gone on in the past decades.

[asjr]

2. If we could pass a Democrats only health bill

There would be a mighty big rush for Republicans to switch parties.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

3. THere are quite a few states where only 1 or 2 major insurers have

the gigantic bulk of the market. Very uncompetitive.

The exchanges were always a part of the picture in just about any healthcare proposal I have ever seen that was not single payer. The exchanges were/are supposed to be the vehicle whereby one can easily compare and contrast all available coverages, both public and private. I don't have any problem with the concept of exchanges they were in the original Hacker whitepaper that all public option discussion emanates from.

[KoKo]

8. I live in one where Blue Cross is the only agent for Small Business..

so I understand what you say. My worry is that allowing all kinds of "Start Up Business and Private Insurers" will lead to some kind of "Insurance Bubble" or "Real Estate Bubble" where all folks get into this seeing it as the new SCHEME...the new BUBBLE and everyone and their auntie and uncle will be putting together Insurance Schemes to provide insurance to unsuspecting poor folks, underinsured or those losing insurance and it will be hailed as a great new FREE MARKET thing...and down the road these people will find out the insurance product they bought was a useless as that house in Florida, Nevada or Phoenix with no money down and promise of Swimming Pool, Walking Trails and other Emenities (as in Medical Coverage for Catastrophic, Meds for Extreme Conditions and other things) and in the end the Insurer will NOT PAY OUT...DEFAULT and we have the mess we've had with Dot Com, Banking and Housing in the last couple decades.

Too much room for FRAUD allowing a FREE FOR ALL opening for "Insurers to cross state lines." :shrug:

BOONDOGGLE!

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

11. And yet in your state you say that small business people have only 1 choice

which translates to no choice.

There are already a lot of crap and fake "insurances" out there right now that prey on the uninformed. I mean, I see signs scrawled in crayon on telephone poles that say "For affordable insurance call 123-456-7890".

You would have to accept the concept that an official government exchange would only allow in systems or companies that had passed certain thresholds, standards, safeguards, etc.

Starting an insurance company or co-op should not be easy, just like starting a bank should not be easy.

[KoKo]

13. I guess what I'm saying is that who will decide the "thresholds or standards"

might be the same kind of folks who got us into Wall St. Mess with AIG (the big insurance provider) and the other "products" that were sold that crashed and burned and left taxpayers holding the bag. There were THREE institutions who were in charge of supposedly supervising these crooked schemes and even ratings agencies who gave them AAA+ Ratings...and look at the billions we taxpayers are paying out.

Those same folks (not having been held accountable with jail terms) might move over into the burgeoning health insurance industry (giving credibility to even those folks who scrawl "Health Insurance call...#######) that you see scrawled on signs on the side of the road. What if these scammers can apply as vendors for private health care insurance?

BTW about the Blue Cross...yes it's the only provider and they made a deal with the state to get the business and it sucks because we have to pay a horrendous rate and if we lose our business we will both be without health care because we will be on our own. But, I wouldn't want to have my alternative someone who was a step up from a scrawled road side sign.

Congress on it's own can make some changes to free up the system without this Big Health Care Bill that will be so lobbied over that it won't resemble the Single Payer we should have had but instead will have a watered down, next to useless public option.

That's my fear, anyway. But, thanks for your reply about it. :hi:

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

14. Hey! Any skepticism regarding either the banking or insurance industries is well deserved

on their part.

I've been a small business owner myself and I feel for you. Small businesses are constantly preyed upon by people offering various forms of I Can't Believe It's Not Health Insurance! (because, guess what, it's not.) State regulators do a piss poor job in my opinion. EVERY SINGLE state could have, on it's own, regulated out the major abuses of the insurers a long time ago.

:hi:

[KoKo]

16. Well...we're kinda getting close to same page on this...with some wrangling..

and stuff..

Anyway...We are still on the same agenda...:hi: We gotta keep "Trucking" as one old banned DU'er used to say. Maybe he was a "Troll" but DAMMIT...he had some SPIRIT!

[2Design]

4. sign me up n/t

[napi21]

5. I thought about something similar the other day. Not the Dems,

because the Party just doesn't have enough money, but a collection of a handfull of private investors. Set up a "not for profit health insurance company". I feel reasonably sure there are a few very wealthy individuals who care enough about bringing the US even with the rest of the western world. It would take people like Gates, etc. to pool some big bucks, contract with an existing ins. co. to process the claims, and some good accountants to calculate what the best price for the policies would be. I love the idea, but unfortunately, I'm not even in the $200,000 wealth catagory and I don't know any billionairs.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

6. It's really just a take on "affinity marketing" like having your university on your credit card

I thought that A Democratic Party co-op would be nice because: it could be for people who believe in universal coverage in the first place AND it is a HUGE affinity group covering close to half of the country.

Co-ops ONLY work with enormous scales of economy, they have to be so large that they can bear the brunt of excessives expenses for a few.

One issue people have spoken of is - how do you prevent people from only enrolling when they are sick or injured? I would have initial open enrollement for anyone,regardless of condition, with coverage from the first day the co-op opened.

After that initial enrollment period, I would pose a six month waiting period for actual coverages, but you would still have to pay the premiums for the six months without coverage - that would make enrolling the smart thing to do, with some actual hard consequence for anyone who tries to game the system.

[readmoreoften]

7. Saying that people who need medical treatment are trying to "game the system"

is pretty damn sad. Just to let you know: if I suddenly discover I need life-sustaining surgery or medication, I will try to "game the system" that's been gaming me since the day I was born. It's called survival and everyone deserves a shot at it.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

9. I don't think you understand at all what I was saying

First of all, I said I would cover ANYONE and everyone in my make believe co-op during the intial open season. Anyone could sign up and be accepted, regardless of their physical condition.

Many people voice the concern that if healthcare is strictly optional and if people can be accepted the moment they apply, that would actually reward people who stay out of the system until they themselves personally need the services. ANY insurance is based on the concept that all people who MIGHT need the services in the future pay in so that ANY and all people in the system are covered.That is why so many plans include "mandates". (That's also why single payer works - you don't have a choice because it's based on taxes)

That central concept breaks down if people simply apply and pay in when they actually need the services. That is what I refer to as "gaming the system". It's all the people paying premiums for services they don't need at the moment that pay for ALL services in general. If you knew in advance that by not going into the system when you had a chance to that you would forfeit actual money and coverage, than that is a powerful incentive to join immediately. It's your choice, but there would be consequences. It's what people refer to as the "moral hazard".

[napi21]

15. It IS gaming the system is you deliberately dont enroll until

ir uf you get sick! That;s like saying I'm not buying auto ins. unless I have an accident!

[abumbyanyothername]

10. This is not just a good idea for health insurance

Taking a page from the Israeli Kibbutz, dems could organize non-profit coops to grow food, distribute food, build homes, finance homes, provide health care (perhaps especially end of life care), etc.

We will let the Pubs maintain there for-profit enterprises and see how much they innovate in comparison.

[704wipes]

12. That one Kennedy has already done that for heating oil in NE

correct, sort of formed a co-op?