Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

"Arrows for the War"...Quiverfull a political movement, not just religious.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 12:21 AM
Original message
"Arrows for the War"...Quiverfull a political movement, not just religious.
After Barack Obama was elected it did not take long for the extremists to come out in full force. They had lost that permanent majority that was going to make it easier for a free-market theocracy to come into being. They have not handled it well at all.

I kept thinking that showing the screamers at the health care forums would embarrass them. Not at all. They seem to take pride in it. I thought that most school districts would refuse to cave in to those who think the President of the United States would warp their children's minds. Not at all...even the media is making these fools sound legitimate. They have no shame and nothing embarrasses them.

I just heard of two families in our area who follow the way of life of the Quiverfull movement. A friend mentioned them and the problems they face. They believe if they keep producing child after child, God will provide. The woman sacrifices herself and her womb to her husband, to the Quiverfull movement and to God.

I think we underestimate the power of religious extremists in this movement and in the overall religious community. My head is still reeling from the way Florida counties so quickly caved to the ones who were fearful of the president. I think this kind of situation may be unprecedented in our country. I though Bush looked pathetic reading My Pet Goat, but I assumed he had a right to be there. I didn't respect him because he lied us to war, but he was the president...he had a right to talk to school children.

My friend, a social worker, pointed out that movements like the Quiverfull one are not just about building a army...they are about into keeping their children isolated from the world as much as they can. Isn't that what we saw this week? Are other religious right movements like that? For some reason so many right wingers are terrified of the president's speech....why? What do they fear?

From Kathryn Joyce at The Nation in 2006:

They borrow their name from Psalm 127: "Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one's youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their enemies in the gate." Quiverfull mothers think of their children as no mere movement but as an army they're building for God.

..."Instead of picketing clinics, Pride writes, Christians should fight abortion by demonstrating that children are an "unqualified blessing" by having as many as God gives them. Only a determination among Christian women to take up their submissive, motherly roles with a "military air" and become "maternal missionaries" will lead the Christian army to victory. Thus is Quiverfull part of Mary Pride's whole-cloth solution to women's liberation: embracing an opposing way of life as total and "self-consistent" as feminism, and turning back the tide on a society gone wrong by populating the world with right-thinking Christians.

The gentle manner of Deidre Welch, another Coxsackie mom, with four boys, seems at odds with Quiverfull's militaristic language, which describes children as weapons of spiritual war, as arrows shot out by their parents. But she describes the movement toward larger families in the same way: "God is bringing revelation on the world. He wants to raise up His army. He wants His children to be."...."Population is a preoccupation for many Quiverfull believers, who trade statistics on the falling white birthrate in European countries like Germany and France. Every ethnic conflict becomes evidence for their worldview: Muslim riots in France, Latino immigration in California, Sharia law in Canada. The motivations aren't always racist, but the subtext of "race suicide" is often there.


The goal is to grow the ranks of the righteous who in turn will have more children. And it IS political in nature as well. This paragraph from the article is a little scary.

After arguing Scripture, the Hesses point to a number of more worldly effects that a Christian embrace of Quiverfull could bring. "When at the height of the Reagan Revolution," they write, "the conservative faction in Washington was enforced (sic) with squads of new conservative congressmen, legislators often found themselves handcuffed by lack of like-minded staff. There simply weren't enough conservatives trained to serve in Washington in the lower and middle capacities." But if just 8 million American Christian couples began supplying more "arrows for the war" by having six children or more, they propose, the Christian-right ranks could rise to 550 million within a century ("assuming Christ does not return before then").


Raising children, arrows, to fight for the right wing issues in Congress.

This movement is about power in politics and government.

Religion is a part of it, but it is about power and control over our country.


This year Kathryn Joyce interviewed a women who left this movement. The price of this kind of submission is devastating to the body of a woman, but the men just keep quoting scripture to them.

Quiverfull, the patriarchal movement, religion, Christianity.

This woman's husband (to whom she was required to submit) became verbally abusive and controlling.

Garrison's marriage ended, and she became pregnant with her oldest daughter, Angel, during a short-lived rebound affair. She moved to Iowa to be near her mother and met Warren at a church picnic. After getting married, Garrison followed a new pastor's counsel to homeschool her growing family, which eventually led her to the Quiverfull movement, where homeschooling, Quiverfull and submission are intertwined convictions. As Garrison says, "If you take one, you pretty much have to take it all eventually."

Accepting every pregnancy as a unilateral blessing meant some radical leaps of faith, however. Put into physical practice, Garrison says the lesson of leaders like Nancy Campbell, editor of the fundamentalist women's magazine Above Rubies and author of movement books like "Be Fruitful and Multiply," "was, if pregnancy can kill you, think of the missionaries who go off to foreign lands and put their lives on the line. It's no different if you're risking your own body or life." Indeed, Mary Pride referred to her mothers as “maternal missionaries.”

Garrison complied. She'd had her first three children by cesarean section, but after coming to the Quiverfull conviction, she was swayed by the movement's emphasis on natural (even unassisted home) birth. During one delivery, she suffered a partial uterine rupture and "felt like I'd been in a major battle with Satan, and he'd just about left me dead." The doctor who treated Garrison lectured her for an hour not to conceive again, but she felt that stopping on her own would be rebellion. When she turned to her leaders for inspiration, she received a bleak message: that if she died doing her maternal duty, God would care for her family. For six months, she couldn't look at the baby without crying.


The person Kathryn Joyce was writing about set up her own blog called Quivering No More. These paragraphs tell a shocking tale of the price paid by wives and children who must be submissve in order to build a political army for God's work.

To those who are disappointed or hurt by my apostasy

There was a price to pay.

In the patriarchal world which I will no longer take part of, the Commanding Officers (the men) are forever waging war against the world and the devil. Wives and children are useful as foot soldiers and arrows in this daily battle for the Kingdom of God. Should a mother die in childbirth, she is hailed as a faithful, dedicated woman ~ hers is a martyr’s death. But if she should struggle ~ if she fails to reverence her husband despite his imperfections and failures to love her as Christ loves the church ~ if she should dare complain that she’s tired and overwhelmed ~ if she has a healthy self-preservation factor ~ or should she be a thinking woman who just can’t manage to adorn herself with that highly prized “meek and quiet spirit” ~ then she is a rebellious Jezebel ~ a reproach on the testimony of Christ. Likewise, the children are valued only in as much as they conform to the lifestyle chosen for them by their parents. If they should express their own opinions (but where would they form dissenting opinions when all influences are controlled by their protector and provider, i.e., Daddy?) they are made to fear for their soul’s salvation. It’s a world in which the only way to win (to be declared a faithful servant approved by the Lord), is to lose yourself ~ lay aside all your dreams, desires, wants, needs ~ your very life ~ and do it without complaint. That’s the way to win if you are a godly woman or a visionary daughter ~ for the man, it’s a whole different story.

Okay ~ I have to stop. Not that I don’t have plenty more to say ~ just that I know this letter sounds bitter and angry and I haven’t figured a way to convey my true feelings ~ that of betrayal and of having been used and of the frustration of having adopted a worldview which systematically denied my children their very selfhood.


The Democrats are working on a strategy via the DLC about groups like this. Trust me the way they are doing it is not very reassuring.

The Carlson he refers to is Alan Carlson a proponent of the Quiverfull movement.

Longman, Carlson, and the Quiverfull movement.

Meanwhile, Phillip Longman hardly offers a left-wing counterpoint. Instead, he's searching--at the request of the Democratic Leadership Council, which published his policy proposals in its Blueprint magazine--for a way to appeal to the same voters Carlson is organizing: a typically "radical middle" quest to figure out how Democrats can make nice with Kansas.

"Who are these evangelicals?" asks Longman. "Is there anything about them that makes them inherently prowar and for tax cuts for the rich?" No, he concludes. "What's irreducible about these religious voters is that they're for the family." Asked whether the absolutist position Quiverfull takes on birth control, let alone abortion, might interfere with his strategy, Longman admits that abortion rights would have to take a back seat but that, in politics, "nobody ever gets everything they need."

Aside from the centrist tax policies Longman is crafting to rival Carlson's, he urges a return to patriarchy--properly understood, he is careful to note, as not just male domination but also increased male responsibility as husbands and fathers--on more universal grounds.

.....Longman's answer to this threat is for progressives to beat conservatives by joining them, emulating the large patriarchal families that conservatives promote in order not to be overrun by a reactionary baby boom. Any mention of social good occurring in regions with low birthrates is swept away by the escalating rhetoric of a "birth dearth," a "baby bust," a dying hemisphere undone by its own progressive politics.


Return to a new form of patriarchy, "properly understood"? Abortion is out of the question? Birth control? Longman does not mention that. Doesn't sound like we will fight very hard.

The price of creating Arrows for the War, which in reality is a political war...is a huge one for the women and their children.

The intent of this and other religious right groups is to form a theocracy in this country. The media gives them oodles of air time. But our party can fight back on this kind of thing if they learn to speak up clearly and call them out on what they are doing.

Unfortunately the really brave outspoken voices in our party are too soon hushed so we can work on being bipartisan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. More from the blog about her apostasy.
"It seems crazy that thousands of years later, we should be trying to emulate the family structure and gender roles of an ancient society which viewed women and children as property. Truthfully, I’m kind of pissed that I so willingly co-operated in my own oppression for so many years ~ I allowed myself and my children to be used to fulfill an egotistical fantasy of a man who desired to be king of his castle.

Patriarchy is a pretty sweet deal ~ for the man who gets a Proverbs 31 wife and a quiverfull of children like olive branches around his table. In that family set-up, Daddy reigns supreme. I know, I know ~ the teaching is that it’s actually the Lord Jesus whom the wife and children serve when they submit to and obey the father. And when I think about it ~ that’s so twisted! How convenient for the man that all this is clearly spelled out in the Word of God.

I realize that I sound like an angry feminist bitch ~ and I think to myself, “If only I could convince them that I tried my best ~ I did everything right!” Could it be that the failure is with the system, not with the burned-out and worn down women who are struggling to make it work?"

http://nolongerquivering.wordpress.com/2009/03/12/to-those-who-may-be-shocked-disappointed-and-hurt-by-the-news-of-my-apostasy/

Glad the DLC is working on a gentler kinder type of patriarchy as mentioned above by Longman.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. It sure is
K&R

"... he urges a return to patriarchy"

Excuse me while I make choking sounds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
No Longer Quivering Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. No Longer Quivering
Although the women (especially the older daughters) pay a very high price in the Quiverfull movement, patriarchy sucks for the men too: http://nolongerquivering.wordpress.com/2009/08/22/twisted_love/

As a side note, I have wanted to participate more regularly here at Democratic Underground ~ I'd sure appreciate if someone who knows their way around DU would contact me.

Best to you.

Vyckie @ No Longer Quivering
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Welcome, Vyckie....

I look forward to reading your blog and learning more about this movement, and your particular experience within it.

Best wishes to you and your children....

:hug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Welcome, and thank you for your courage
Edited on Mon Sep-07-09 12:29 PM by LibertyLover
I have read your blog about the Quiverfull movement and greatly appreciate your courage in writing about it. Thank you. Sorry - meant to reply to post #4.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Welcome to DU.
I have been fascinated reading your blog. I picked up on it in some of Kathryn Joyce's works.

It would be great to see you post here. There is no way around, you just post your thoughts and feelings.

As a recovering Southern Baptist, I was stunned to see Al Mohler take up a cause like this. He is probably teaching it to the seminary students.

You have courage, and you have an ability to write clearly about your "apostasy" in a good way.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Wow, I just read your post about patriarchy that you linked to.
It's a moving insightful look in to that world. This part jumped out at me.

"A man’s growth and maturity are stunted due to constantly being rescued from adversity ~ and he has nothing of himself ~ only a dependency upon the woman to uphold that illusion of his headship and control.

There is no love in patriarchy. There is no respect. There is only perpetual immaturity, dependency and frustration for the man who is subjected to the most sophisticated manipulation as his wife gives over control and authority to him ~ and in that move, takes control of God Himself ~ for in response to her obedience, has the Lord not promised to bless her?"

Beautifully said.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Welcome, Vyckie! I love your blog. You are a very talented writer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Welcommmen, bienvenue, come on in!
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Why the hat and glasses in the blog pic?
Does your husband want to evade recognition?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. hi Vyckie
i have been enjoying your blog for awhile. welcome! :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Welcome Vyckie!
Great blog, I'm reading it now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. Welcome to DU
and hugs
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. One word: RACISM.
They can wrap it in religion, "concern," fear of communism or whatever they like. They're not fooling me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. Guy hired by DLC urges return to patriarchy...."properly understood"
and he says abortion is out of the question. Talk about caving?

You can not compromise with extremists. Howard Dean said that in 2003. He was right then, and they are just getting more extreme.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061127/joyce/5

"Aside from the centrist tax policies Longman is crafting to rival Carlson's, he urges a return to patriarchy--properly understood, he is careful to note, as not just male domination but also increased male responsibility as husbands and fathers--on more universal grounds.

.....Longman's answer to this threat is for progressives to beat conservatives by joining them, emulating the large patriarchal families that conservatives promote in order not to be overrun by a reactionary baby boom. Any mention of social good occurring in regions with low birthrates is swept away by the escalating rhetoric of a "birth dearth," a "baby bust," a dying hemisphere undone by its own progressive politics."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. Unrecs begin.
I often wonder if the unrecs are against the content of the message, the message, or the messenger.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sounds like the Quiverfuls moonlight
writing for Landoverbaptist.org

Hell Hospital will give visitors a blood-curdling, authentic peek inside one of Obama's government-run hospitals. Visitors will line up and be seated inside Hell Hospital's filthy waiting room, which is the size of nearly two football fields. "This is REAL TERROR," says Pastor. "Visitors will wait for hours -- sometimes days! -- just like they'll wait in one of Obama's hospitals just to get a used Band-Aid. Lead paint will be peeling off the walls, cathode ray televisions will be spooling hours of PBS specials on the Obama family's clothing and eating habits, all while hundreds of Baptist University students painted to look like Mexicans wearing little pink ears and snouts mingle with the crowd, dancing around sombreros and coughing into the faces of white children, passing on swine flu and Chlamydia," Pastor continued. "It is a real rip-roaring production!"
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/2009/september/hellhouse2009.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. Ah the crusades,
let's bring that back, it resulted in enlightenment, or was it the dark ages, I can't remember. Whatever, it was such a good excuse to exterminate all the people you didn't like.

Iran is a theocracy, yet they have free education, so this is why the kids born after the revolution rebelled. Education and exposure to the internet ruined their design. The children of religious extremists in this country are different, being home schooled, and then going to religious colleges, they have a much less chance of breaking out of that mindset. They have it wrapped pretty tight.

I have been reading a lot about deprogramming methods, since I think this has to become a specialty in this country, to break people of conditioning that has interfered with their ability to exercise free will or free thought.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. Very important issue. Thanks for posting. But I disagree that Bush ...
... was President and had a right to be there. There is a world of difference in Dems feeling that the occupant of the White House was illegitmate from 2000 through 2008, and Republican extremists making the same claim, but based on racism and a denial of Obama's citizenship.

George Bush was never elected President of the United States, and had no right to be anywhere he ever was during those eight years. Obama won with large majorities.

Ignorance and racism and religious distortions like the one you've posted here are at the root of all of our problems in this country. And Obama has been too accommodating of these issues right from the start. Even so, he's not religious enough for the religious, and besides that (just between you and me and the gatepost), HE'S BLACK! The outrage of an uppity black man assuming he's got anything to say to good little Fundie children is not to be borne. Just hearing his words might turn them into little Socialists against their (and God's) will -- even if they can't figure out what Socialism is.

Unbelievable!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
19. Delusional
It is impossible for them to have enough babies to have an effect.

They do not understand just how populated the planet is.

And they seem to not get that some of their babies just might grow up and not agree with them?



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. That is why they keep their families isolated only having contact with like mined people
with a huge dose of fear that if you go against God's will as told to you by your group that you will go to a very hot place and probably cause your family to fall as well. I once read an account of a young woman who left the fundamentalist Mormans who don't just have multiple wives but marry relatives and how she kept expecting the devil to come out of the ground and drag her to Hell :*
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
holiday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. sounds like the Duggars
they follow Bill Gothard
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I had the impression they followed the Quiverfull movement as well.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/189763

"Watching Michelle Duggar manage her Herculean tasks is addictive. We like to marvel at the logistics of life in oversized reality-TV families like the Duggars or the participants of the series "Kids By the Dozen" (also on TLC), which features families with at least 12 children each. How do they do all that laundry every week? Afford all those gallons of milk or cope with a joint birthday party for 13?

But there's one big omission from the on-screen portrayal of many of these families: their motivation. Though the Duggars do describe themselves as conservative Christians, in reality, they follow a belief system that goes far beyond "Cheaper by the Dozen" high jinks. It is a pro-life-purist lifestyle known as Quiverfull, where women forgo all birth-control options, viewing contraception as a form of abortion and considering even natural family planning an attempt to control a realm—fertility—that should be entrusted to divine providence.

At the heart of this reality-show depiction of "extreme motherhood" is a growing conservative Christian emphasis on the importance of women submitting to their husbands and fathers, an antifeminist backlash that holds that gender equality is contrary to God's law and that women's highest calling is as wives and "prolific" mothers."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iceman66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. That's the problem with a democratic system.
If these people ever get to the point where they outnumber rational human beings, we're in for a world of shit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
buzzycrumbhunger Donating Member (793 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
25. I've seen these people firsthand
For some reason (I think it was an attempt at understanding, if not family unity), I allowed my freak of an ex to drag us all to the fundie "church" he had joined. There were several of these families. The worst had a new baby every 9-12 months and at first glance, appeared as Stepford-ish as the Duggars. The cracks really showed, however, when the guy went on the frequent crusades the group had (whole 'nuther story--it appeared to me that they invited themselves to live with poor people in a Mexican village and read the bible out loud to them--in English, though no one understood same--believing that their example of "holiness" was converting the heathens and would ultimately raise them out of poverty. . . LOL. But I digress.) As soon as he left town, the wife--who had 14 kids and couldn't have been much over 30--started freaking out about being attacked. By demons. Other women in the church had to take turns staying with her so she'd be able to keep up with her household chores (not too demanding because they bragged about having nothing in the house but beds and bibles) and keeping the kids fed.

These people all made a huge issue out of home schooling and I really don't understand how they managed to survive the frequent inspections by HRS (or whatever they're called now), except that FL is just full of these freaks and they probably don't have the resources to cope with them all.

This "church" was also one of those that handed out sheets instructing people how to vote each election, so this breeding program is just the tip of the iceberg. Given that there's a nondenominational bunch like this in almost every strip mall in FL, I'd like to see the tax code rewritten doing away with tax-free status for all churches, given they are so blatantly political.

This whole Duggar thing got me so pissed I found myself bitching to Discovery Health Channel about their programming, BTW. They either need to quit exploiting these freaky families or think about changing their name. They seem to have succumbed to the Survivor phenomenon, where they had an informative episode about an odd family or two that got decent ratings (freak shows are always a big draw, right?), realized how cheap it was to do reality teevee, and then went apeshit, piling on the clones without even bothering to fully vet the stories before promoting them. I honestly don't know how they've resisted showcasing the Octomom. *sigh*
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
26. This extermism is not unique to Christianity...
It exists in Judaism and Islam, also.

This is the face of religious extremism in reaction to a highly complex modern world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
27. Theocracy Watch is at theocracywatch.org -- highly recommended source
That is all...

Hekate

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-08-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. It is a good site.
www.theocracywatch.org

It does not appear to have been updated recently. Hope they have not abandoned it. It is a great resource.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-08-09 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
30. Bush White House checked with rapture Christians before latest Israel move
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-09-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Oh, yeh, he met with many pastors to discuss poltical stuff. Hagee also I think.
Bush is using religious right leaders to push the danger of Islam, Iran.

"Focus on the Family founder James Dobson and about a dozen other pro-family leaders met privately with President Bush recently about Iraq, Iran and the war on terror. As reported first by Max Blumenthal at The Raw Story, Dobson described a series of meetings in Washington on Monday's Focus on the Family radio show, the first in a weeklong series of broadcasts devoted to "radical Islam's impact on America."

"I was invited to go to Washington, D.C., and meet with President Bush in the White House, along with 12 or 13 other leaders of the pro-family movement, and the topic of the discussion that day was Iraq, Iran and international terrorism," Dobson said. "We were together for 90 minutes, and it was very enlightening and in some ways very disturbing, too. In a roundabout way, that led to today."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-08-09 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
31. Many of these types are in my family; although, they aren't of the non-stop procreation
sect, they are big on large families and home-indoctrination, er I mean home-schooling.

They do everything they can to keep to themselves socially and never rely upon mainstream citizens for anything. Their main interaction with "others" is through proselytizing for their religion. One way they do this is through "mission" work, whether it's domestic or foreign. The churches they belong to are able to generate enough dollars to send these folks all over the place and provide them money to live on.

These folks are fanatics in the truest sense of the word. Someone commented earlier that they will never be able to produce enough offspring to realize their dream. I disagree because it does not take numbers of adherents to successfully change things so much as it takes committed, unflagging dedication and the ability to get into the right positions in society. We have seen a scary example of this in the number of Regent University Law School grads who were in the Bush Justice Department.

Recommend highly, but too late to go on record since I just returned to the internetz from a mini-vacation.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC