Fines proposed for going without health insurance.

[WillieW]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090908/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_care_overhaul


WASHINGTON – Americans would be fined up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance under a plan that circulated in Congress on Tuesday as divisions among Democrats undercut President Barack Obama's effort to regain traction on his health care overhaul.

As Obama talked strategy with Democratic leaders at the White House, the one idea that most appeals to his party's liberal base lost ground in Congress. Prospects for a government-run plan to compete with private insurers sank as a leading moderate Democrat said he could no longer support the idea.

The fast-moving developments put Obama in a box. As a candidate, he opposed fines to force individuals to buy health insurance, and he supported setting up a public insurance plan. On Tuesday, fellow Democrats publicly

[virgogal]

1. That's the way it is in Massachusetts.

[TheCowsCameHome]

24. Yup

Bummer.

[rug]

2. How did we get from single payer to fines?

[joeycola]

11. The WH has provided little leadership.

[create.peace]

3. well, that would just about wipe me out!nt

[Mojambo]

4. Even if my fine ended up being a fraction of that number it would still kill me.

How fucking stupid do you have to be to propose fining people for not being able to FUCKING AFFORD something?

[rfranklin]

5. this is a gift to the health insurance corporations....

It is a disgrace that any Democrat and especially President Obama would even contemplate this fucking rip off.

[noiretextatique]

6. what a ripoff

appalling that this is being touted as "reform."

[Chemisse]

7. I don't like that idea AT ALL!

Most people really want health insurance. If it is affordable - and perhaps subsidized - few people would opt out.

Nobody should be forced to buy it. That just takes away one more freedom.

[glinda]

48. Several of us pay for those not having it right now.

[Chemisse]

51. Yeah that is true, but I really think most people will want it as long as it is affordable - nt

[Xipe Totec]

8. Put it on my tax bill then

If we have to pay, then it's a tax. If it's a tax, put it on my income taxes and be done.

Let's have single payer, and a public option.

Why this chickenshit mandate? That's throwing more money at the insurance pigs.

[Blackhatjack]

9. IF this were to pass it would push people to protest in the streets ... guaranteed.

A public mandate to buy private insurance without a public option would do it.

I don't see it happening... rather I see it killing any chances at passing a healthcare reform bill.
We would be back at the Clinton days ....

[villager]

20. you think *this* would finally get Americans off their asses and into the streets

after two stolen Presidential elections, the repealing of the Constitution, the inexorable killing of the biosphere, etc...?

I dunno...

[Blackhatjack]

22. This was always a WIN/WIN for insurance companies ...

... either they get millions of Americans required to buy private insurance from them without a public option,

OR they kill healthcare reform entirely.

Game... set .... match.... UNLESS Dems step up and push through a bill with a public option.

[and-justice-for-all]

10. that is pretty fucking stupid...

sounds more like something a puke would do.

[lunatica]

12. This can't possibly pass

It's insane.

If it passes I will give up on this country ever meaning anything again.

[Gravel Democrat]

13. And guess which Government Entity will enforce this mandate?

When you've guessed the correct answer you should ask why no one is talking about it.

[havocmom]

14. They gonna impose fines on employers who do not pay workers enough to AFFORD insurance?

No, didn't think so.

Time for a shit load of civil disobedience. How can underpaid workers who are in constant jeopardy of being homeless if they miss a couple days of work possibly afford one more MANDATE to support big business while big business stands on their throats?

[villager]

27. "shitload of civil disobedience" is right...

of course, it's been time for decades...

[Nikki Stone1]

15. Please K & R this and get it on greatest page

This is important.

[Swamp Rat]

16. Baucus is an ass.... Good luck collecting money from the poor and homeless

They will not get a dime from me.

[salguine]

18. There wouldn't be homeless people if we forced them to buy houses.

[Swamp Rat]

26. LOL!

perfect! :applause:

[usregimechange]

17. That is very dumb and wrong

[dbonds]

19. No , NO, and NOOO - not without a public option.

If you make insurance mandatory without a public option you are requiring people to line the pockets of the insurance executives.

[lynne]

21. Isn't that already a part of HR3200?

It's begins on page 167 of HR3200, referred to as ‘‘PART VIII—HEALTH CARE RELATED TAXES", PART 1—INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY, Sec. 401. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

It's a tax imposed on people without either private or public option coverage. Isn't this the same thing?

[yost69]

32. Yes it is. 2.5%. But every time I mention it,

it is like I am a total ass for complaining about being forced to do something. Now that there is an actual number everyone wants to bitch about it?

[lynne]

33. Thanks, at least I know I'm not seeing things! n/t

[lib2DaBone]

23. Just beautiful.. How can unemployed pay $3,800

I heard that the IRS will enforce this....I guess we are all headed to debtors prison.

This just proves the total diconnect in CONgress.

[jtrockville]

25. So we either subsidize enormous CEO salaries/industry PROFITS, or

we get slapped with a fine. Either way we're likely to get denied health care.

How marvelous.

[gopiscrap]

28. FUCK that

if you can't afford health insurance you can't afford the 3,800.00 fine..what do we want to do...send 47,000,000 to jail? That's most assinine thing I have heard yet...the insurance companies must be splooging all over themselves!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. Too bad we can't fine politicians for not providing health care.

But, as usual, shit trickles downhill.

[tnlefty]

34. Personally, I'd like to yank theirs out from under them

and deny them access to Bethesda or any other clinic, but that won't happen.

[ixion]

30. That is not reform

it is a massive windfall for insurance companies, and the government.

There is no way in hell I would support this legislation.

[TransitJohn]

31. If the crime of a mandate passes I have a question.

What are they going to do to Americans living abroad? They're required to pay income taxes, will they include them in the mandate?

[Feron]

35. That works out to be about 316.67 per month.

If someone doesn't have the dough to buy a cheapo junk insurance policy, then it stands to reason that this person wouldn't be able to afford the fine either.

Essentially it's punishing a person for being poor, but not poor enough to qualify for a subsidy.

[arcadian]

36. They are mocking us. They are really daring us to storm the Bastille.

[Sebastian Doyle]

38. Maybe that's what it will take?

[PHIMG]

37. Incredible!

This is health care reform by Ebenezer Scrouge.

Next up -- you get fined if you are homeless.

[Donnachaidh]

39. Sure - fine me when I'm AGAIN TURNED DOWN for insurance

I foresee some SERIOUS class action lawsuits from the people who are insurance lepers. They think there is a stink NOW? Just frigging wait...

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. And they expect my money, my time and chiefly my vote

That is a good fucking joke.

They are pushing too far and they will get a reaction

This country is on the edge of some ugliness and this will NOT help

[PM Martin]

41. Who propsed this?

[SnoopDog]

42. This seems to be unconstitutional...

I cannot find where this would be legal in the Constitution. There are no provisions for 'fines'.

Anybody agree or disagree with my statements?

[bluethruandthru]

43. Yeah, let's force people to buy private insurance policies

because there's no public option..and let's give those who can't afford it subsidies (our tax dollars) to do it!! Now the insurance companies will not only get a huge chunk of my paycheck each month...they'll also get my tax dollars too! I can't believe something like this is even being contemplated by Democrats. Why didn't we just stay home on election day?

[ipaint]

44. The mandate always came with a fine.

While everyone has been obsessing and freaking out over the rightwing nuts at the town halls for a month the insurance industry has been lobbying for larger more punitive fines. Voila.

[windoe]

45. Why do I feel like I am being robbed?

We should all just bend over and make it easier.

[dana_b]

46. this is Baucus's big plan. and this:

"The Baucus plan would require insurers to take all applicants, regardless of age or health. But smokers could be charged higher premiums. And 60-year-olds could be charged five times as much for a policy as 20-year-olds."

So 60 year old smokers may as well just pay the fine or, if they can't pay it, go to jail? I mean wtf? What are they supposed to do?

Baucus may as well become a Repuke because he's got the moves down.

[glinda]

49. Backass should be surrounded by protesters asap.

[Kablooie]

47. This is what it has always been since the beginning.

It's always simply been a plan to enrich the insurance companies more. The public option is only in the debate as a smokescreen to keep the left talking about something that has always been nothing but an empty red herring.

The public option, let alone single payer, has never, ever been a serious issue among those that will decide what the plan will be. The politicians that 'support' it only do so as a front to keep their left wing support from dwindling too much.

You will see once something passes.
It will be a boost to the insurance and medical corporations that will guarantee them more customers.

I expect Obama's speech tonight to essentially support this plan.

[Matariki]

50. Line item veto?