Mother upset after Kentucky high school coach took players to church

[DFW]

Source: USA Today/Louisville Courrier-Journal

The head football coach at Breckinridge County High School took about 20 players on a school bus late last month to his church, where nearly half of them were baptized, school officials say.

The mother of one player said her 16-year-old son was baptized without her knowledge and consent, and she is upset that a public school bus was used to take players to a church service — and that the school district's superintendent was there and did not object.

"Nobody should push their faith on anybody else," said Michelle Ammons, whose son, Robert Coffey, said Coach Scott Mooney told him and other players that the Aug. 26 outing would include only a motivational speaker and a free steak dinner...........

David Friedman, general counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky, said in an interview that the trip would appear to violate Supreme Court edicts on the separation of church and state — even if it was voluntary and the school district didn't pay for the fuel.
------------



Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/2009-09-08-kentucky-church-trip_N.htm

---

This reminds me of the time my mother-in-law tried to take my children to Mass without my knowledge.
I love the old lady, but I said, gently but in no uncertain terms, that it was never ever to happen
again until they were old enough to want to go on their own. It didn't and they haven't.

High school athletics can be a high-pressure atmosphere (I remember from when I was in school), and
not "going along" can mean social ostracism, even if no one ever says it out loud. I understand why
this woman's son went. I also understand why she is furious at what happened. I'd be furious, too.

[Barack_America]

1. Wow. That is insane. The guy needs to be fired.

Absolute abuse of power.

[sui generis]

4. Oh yeah, fired and police protection

I'd baptize that fucker until he was breathing out of his blow hole.

[damntexdem]

18. Along with the superintendent.

And some monetary damages should be awarded.

[glinda]

73. Fired and a lawsuit. They would win that one.

[sinkingfeeling]

2. I do believe I'd hire a lawyer and file suit.

[hatrack]

3. How long before she starts getting death threats?

Not long, I'd wager.

[zbdent]

33. well, she won't be getting favorable treatments from Faux ...

[BrklynLiberal]

49. My first thought.....Her neighbors probably do not appreciate her objecting to the

forced baptism of young men.

It brings to mind a book that I read many years ago. It was called "Michel, Michel".
It was based on a true story, or not several true stories.

It is a tale of a French Jewish boy who was taken in by a Catholic woman at age 3 when the Gestapo took his parents away. She raised him according to her faith and baptized him (despite the fact that he had been circumcised). Now, in 1948, his aunt in Israel wants him to come and live with her. The boy's adopted mother wants to keep him, and invokes the help of the Church. The extravagant custody battle that ensues shows us the incredibly complex and historic French legal system, and the anti-Semitic and anti-clerical views that prejudice it. Stuck in the middle of this, is Michel, a pitiful, confused boy who was told by various ignorant church leaders that the Jews were evil people who killed Jesus and deserved to be punished. The boy wonders whether he and his father, who he remembers with clarity and affection (and was never baptized), are damned for the nature of their birth. Too stubborn to tell anyone his feelings, he manifests them by being unusually pious, but he still does not know where he belongs. As the conflict around him escalates to the national level, the conflict in his heart drives him to an attempt suicide. This book shows us what happens when children are torn from their families (biological or otherwise) and pulled every which way. It also makes fascinating points about the nature vs. nurture issue, and leaves an ambiguous answer for the interpretation of the reader. It does not divide the world into the heroes (Jews) and antagonists (the Church), but, instead, shows us the faults of each side.

[liberal N proud]

5. And their worried about Obama indoctrination our children

These teachers, coaches and school officials have our children all day long. It is amazing what they can do with a mind.

[DFW]

15. Or TO it........ n/t

[eagertolearn]

26. Don't you know that religion is different. These people can't see beyond their own nose.

Why to they have to push their beliefs on someone else. This happened this summer to my son and a few friends at a boyscout camp. Some of the boys who belong to the LDS church brought several of their "book of mormon" bibles to camp and tried to get the other boys who were camp counselors in training to read their bible and gave it to them to take home. I was taking my sons friend home and the boy stuck his head in the window and said to his friend "don't forget to keep reading that book I gave you". Their parents were not very happy. My son never brought it up but he knows how i feel about that. I hate religion because these people feel like they have to push their beliefs on everyone and look down their nose at you if you don't believe how they believe. We have to keep pushing back so we don't get taken over. That is a pain too.

[LuckyLib]

39. I had a Mormon friend at age 9 that tried desperately to convert me. She worked long and hard

but to no avail. I was already in process of being indoctrinated in a Catholic elementary school. The cult part of my life was already covered.

B-)

[Xicano]

68. I always told them that I don't believe in talking snakes

or in a GAWD who's wrathful and justifies genocide against 'infidels' and number of other horrific atrocities.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

56. Of course they're worried...

That's the tactic the fundy thugs have used for years. They're afraid someone will use their own weapon against them.

[TankLV]

58. It's called Repuke PROJECTION - they try to "project" on everyone else THEIR real AGENDA!!!

Of course, the REST OF US have not even THOUGHT of doing the things, that the REPUKES accuse US of DOING/WANTING - and the Whore "Liberal" Media goes merrily along with narry a question or a comeback of "...but - the only ones we see doing what YOU are accusing OTHERS of doing is YOU..."!!!

[OwnedByFerrets]

63. Bingo!! We have a winna!!

[Gman2]

6. Considering that the real agenda was hidden, you could try for kidnapping.

[customerserviceguy]

7. Yep, no pressure there

I'll bet the baptized were immediately good enough to be first string!

[tomm2thumbs]

8. grounds for immediate firing if you ask me

[valerief]

9. OMG, that is totally criminal. He should be arrested as well as fired. nt

[jwirr]

10. What idiot church did this? Half of those children were probably already

members of another church. They truly need to be sued.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. See my post #41

I know someone who was talked into being rebaptized at the age of nine while attending a fundamentalist day camp with a friend.

[Hekate]

65. A pastor I knew called that "sheep stealing" and didn't think it was right.

I agree with him.

Hekate

[tomm2thumbs]

11. picture what people would say if they were shuttled off to a mosque and 'converted' - eh?

i sense it as the last gasps of a religiously-fanatical coach desperate to 'change' the world to his own liking, using impressionable teens because he has no self esteem and wouldn't be able to deal with adults in the wa

[zbdent]

35. Imagine if the women's basketball coach was not widely known as one who

supports female circumcision ...

[Algorem]

12. don't mess with the long tradition of football coach religionuttery

[izquierdista]

13. I'm confused

I thought it was the gays that went around hijacking buses full of students to be recruited. :freak:

[DeSwiss]

14. What a fucking idiot. I hope his ass is FIRED forthwith!

Unfortunately, this is not new:

Cornerstone Baptist reportedly proselytizing D-11 students

May 01, 2009 4:00 PM
MARK BARNA and SUE McMILLIN
THE GAZETTE

A Colorado Springs church with a history of controversy over its attempts to bring children into its fold by saving and baptizing them has been evangelizing recently outside at least one middle school and two elementary schools.

Cornerstone Baptist Church fell into the spotlight again after an incident Thursday near Russell Middle School.

According to Colorado Springs School District 11 officials, a church group tried to lure a seventh-grader into a church van after school, and the girl went home and told her parents. The incident was reported to the Colorado Springs Police Department, but spokesman Lt. David Whitlock said he hadn't been able to track down a report to confirm details.

MORE: http://www.gazette.com/articles/members-52775-russell-church.html

Baptism, Bees, and Salvation

Published on Saturday, May 16, 2009
CommonDreams.org
by Christopher Brauchli

They're still at it. I'm referring to the Cornerstone Baptist Church in Colorado Springs. They've probably learned that it really works. How else to explain its practices. We examined its practices in 1993 and 16 years later it's still going strong. It's called involuntary baptism.

In 1993 the Cornerstone Baptist church advertised a kids' carnival that featured, among other things, a water fight, free balloons, squirt guns and candy. The carnival was obviously directing its advertising at children since most adults are not attracted to an event just because it has water fights, balloons and squirt guns. Unadvertised, but nonetheless a big part of the festivities, was a spontaneous (as far as the kids were concerned) baptism. Reports suggest that the pastor encouraged the carnival attendees to become baptized by telling them that without the baptism they could be killed by bee stings. If he was right, those accepting the invitation were permanently inoculated against that particular peril. Right or wrong, most children would probably find that appealing since any inoculation one can obtain without being given a shot seems like a very good kind of inoculation indeed.

MORE: http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/16-5

- K&R

[DFW]

16. Not at all new. This has been going on for about 2000 years or more

It's just that one might be forgiven for thinking that a LITTLE enlightenment
had occurred in the meantime. Wishful thinking, it would appear.

[DeSwiss]

24. 2,000 years too long....

...and it's time for it to END.

- Way past the time.....

[DFW]

25. Got THAT right!!

But how?

You can't legislate "Get a life" or enforce it in a court of law.

[Occulus]

27. Tax the Church. n/t

[pollo poco]

37. tax the church n/t

[TankLV]

60. Tas the FUCKING church already!!!

[Enthusiast]

72. Yup! nt

[Bette Noir]

44. Lured into a van? Isn't that how kidnappers and molesters operate?

[DFW]

47. Bullseye.

Mind kidnappers and molesters of the spirit.

[madmom]

17. When my daughter was about 7-8 she wanted to go to the Sunday school across the street from us. I

relented (I'm a non-believer but wanted her to learn and make up her own mind) They baptist her without parental consent. This was about 15 years ago.

[JBoy]

19. They're 0-3 this season, so it's not working.

http://www.maxpreps.com/league/-4c3u-iIM0m0kbgjSzYQiw/standings-4a-district-3.htm

And 28-120 on points. They're getting crucified!

[cloudbase]

31. It would be neat if

one of the teams they lost to was the Lions.

[DFW]

36. Haven't you heard?

God works in mysterious ways :evilgrin:

[Bette Noir]

42. Oooof. The pun, it burns.

[Kerrytravelers]

62. Bwwwaaahhhhh. Good one!

:rofl:

[pleah]

93. Oh, snap!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Kingofalldems]

20. What does football have to do with religion anyway?

I saw an interview with the Texas QB last year in which he said "God has a plan for this team". Does He?

[DFW]

23. In a word, no.

All these theatrics about people just knowing that God has a plan for this, and God wants that, and
what God wants just happens, by pure coincidence, you understand, to be what they want. God wants this
and I want it too. Adonai wants Israel to occupy the whole West Bank, and Allah wants them expelled.
How does everybody know? Because they know what God wants. Republicans know that God would never permit
a black Democrat to be legitimately elected President, either. Except that he was. Primitive peoples
have, since the dawn of communication, justified the most absurd, the most horrifying, and the most
illogical of actions because God (or one of them) wanted them to do it.

You want to say you believe something about God? Fine with me. You want to tell me you KNOW something
about God? That means you KNOW that if I believe something different, what I believe is wrong. That is
the proverbial tossing of a match into a barrel of gasoline. I hope this maniac football coach feels the
appropriate heat.

[notadmblnd]

21. the guy needs to be fired. The church needs to be sued.

[zonkers]

22. Calling Ms. Gloria Alred.

[Mithreal]

28. As if school prayer wasn't enough. nt

[DFW]

29. i.e., if you get tossed out the door..........

Climb in through the window.

[theaocp]

30. Absolut

vomit. This literally makes me sick. Cancer of the AIDS of the eye to the coach and superintendent. I'm tired of playing nice, so may they all live in interesting times. Did i mention i was vomiting? Gawd.

[Plucketeer]

32. This is the same crap that's being done in our military

Young kids - impressionable and gullible being pressured into praying and studying the "good book" so as to be part of God's forces for good. Despicable and disgusting are two words that quickly come to mind!

[madokie]

34. I'm not sure but I think I'd be pissed too

I didn't want my kids to be coerced into something like that. If they go on their own I'd be fine with it but if there was any coercing going on like my experience with the church folks leads me to believe that there probably was I'd more than likely be pissed too. I was raised southern baptist and they think its their god given duty to push the bible and jesus on everyone in the world. In fact I remember the preachers saying that until they had spread the word of god to every corner of the earth, whatever the heck that is, that jesus wouldn't come back but once they had here he'd come. You see I grew out of that way of thinking long ago. If I'm going to believe in a super being I want one that is a little more fair and balanced, actually. Give me a god that will let me come back here to earth when I die and be a friendly ghost I'm in. ;-)

[theaocp]

38. I've rethought this...

...you try this with my kid and i will not stop at killing you. You better hope there is a god with mercy somewhere b/c i swear i will make you wish you could crawl back in the womb. GodDAMMIT! Run and hide, fundies ... i'm comin'!

[treestar]

40. The scary part is that they likely really believe that are saving

these kids' souls.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. Some of those fundamentalist churches are downright predatory

They will even take children and youth who have already been baptized in their family's church and tell them that God won't recognize their baptism because they weren't fully immersed.

Mainline churches, including the Roman Catholics, recognize one another's baptisms. In fact, back in the 1960s, when Luci Baines Johnson converted to Catholicism, the priest rebaptized her, and he actually should not have. If you've already been baptized in one denomination, your new denomination is supposed to initiate you by Reception or Confirmation.

[Ms. Toad]

50. The process for dealing with already baptized

individuals will depend on the receiving church. They each have their own rules, and what's good for the Catholics isn't necessarily good for those who don't think Catholics are Christian; baptism as an infant is not likely to be accepted by a church that believes the person being baptized must be of the age of reason before being baptized, and so on.

[LeftyMom]

83. And in fundamentalist circles, more than one baptism isn't uncommon.

Fall away and later come back? Get dunked again. Switch denominations or even just churches? It'll probably be suggested you do it again to be safe. Definitely going to need to do it again if you did it in a mainline Protestant church, or a Catholic one, or some other church that fundies don't think is Christian or Christian Enough.

Then again, in most fundie circles (but not most Baptists, so far as I know) the big deal isn't baptism, but the "baptism of the spirit" speaking in tongues pentecostal experience thing, which is supposed to be when the Holy Spirit enters you.

[Progressive_In_NC]

87. See, that is wrong right there

Baptism is not magical at all. I got to a Baptist church in the South and they'll tell you that Baptism is just an outward expression of your faith. All you are doing is making a public profession and the minister even says that before he baptises new members (we have a lot of methodists and Catholics in our church now).

He will say, XXXXXX was baptised and confirmed as a child but is now joining our church and is being immersed as an outward profession of her faith. She isn't being resaved....that's ridiculous.

[LuckyLib]

43. This warrants a massive lawsuit. The ONLY thing these crazies pay attention to

is negative publicity and a drain of megabucks from the individual, the church coffers, and the county/school district The sad part is that other students will suffer when the bill has to be paid.

[HillbillyBob]

46. The should have held that coach down for about 20 minutes during his turn

nt

[Progressive_In_NC]

88. i understand being upset, but murder?

wow.

[LiberalFighter]

48. Why go outside the county to Hardin County?

There are numerous churches all in Breckinridge County. Yet, they travel almost an hour from the middle of Hardin County to attend a specific church.

I think the other churches in Breckinridge County should demand that the school have the kids baptized in their church.

Map

[BREMPRO]

51. oh no, this is OK, you just can't have the president tell students to work hard and stay in school.

talk about indoctrination! this is criminal.

[Bleacher Creature]

52. Let me guess, the same superintendent probably "took a stand" against Obama's speech.

Just a guess.

[Dramarama]

53. Lol @ the conservatives take on it

Sort of want to go to FR and make an article and replace each Christian word with Islam or Judaism

[southernyankeebelle]

54. This man should be fired. I get so upset by this kind of stuff. My

grandchild is not of the same faith. I don't care if she doesn't go to mass with me. I will teach her to say the rosary. I gave my daughter-in-law a pair of rosaries and she took it with her when she delivered my grandchild. I don't see what the problem is that the child gets exposed to different religions. That way it will show respect for other peoples faith. I don't say go all the time. I don't even know what faith my daughter-in-law is however living in the south I think her preacher is one of those "I got the calling kind of preachers". I don't much like those.

[Ken Burch]

55. The comments at the USA TODAY link are predictably disturbing

May we assume they'd have been fine with it if the coach had taken these kids to a mosque for afternoon prayers?

[avebury]

57. One Less Football Player

If they did that to my son, the team would have one less football player as I would not let that coach anywhere near my son again. I would be seeing a lawyer about legal recourse. I would also put the school on notice that if they dared to take my son ANYWHERE again without my express permission I would report them for kidnapping.

[TankLV]

61. ...kidnaping and SPIRITUAL and MENTAL MOLESTATION...pure and simple...

[Demobrat]

59. I was baptized as a Methodist without the knowledge or consent of my parents

I went to the little brick church on the corner with a little friend and wham! I was a Methodist. When my mother heard about it she just laughed, as I do to this day. It meant absolutely nothing then and still doesn't. Of course the kids should not be forced to take part in any religious ceremony - but it's not like it actually matters.

[havocmom]

86. It does matter. He kidnapped them. And he used school property to do it.

If the bus had been in an accident, wouldn't the school (ahem, TAXPAYERS) be liable for injuries to the students?

So many ways this does matter. Adult in authority position over minor children throwing his religion at them? What other ways could a coach use his authority over kids abuse them? You don't cross that line, and you don't tolerate it when someone else does. Oh, it matters.

[TorchTheWitch]

89. this is why permission slips signed by a parent is necessary

whenever their underage kids want to participate in anything off school grounds. The permission form the parents signed for these kids to participate in playing the sport only covers those trips necessary to play the sport (away games or practices that can't be conducted on the school grounds). It does not cover permission for the kids to be taken to and/or participate in anything else.

There is no possible way the coach and superintendent did not know how illegal this was.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. What an ass!!

The coach, not the mom. LOL

[donco6]

66. Totally fired.

No question.

[ScottLand]

67. That I would have a problem with.

I wonder how many of those people that objected to Obama's speech would think this is okay.

[DainBramaged]

69. I think 'upset' is putting it mildly.

I would be suing everyone including the church for violating my kid's civil rights, for religious indoctrination, even for the potential for drowning for not having a lifeguard present.

[JerseygirlCT]

70. So wrong on so many different levels... nt

[Parche]

71. any forced religion is wrong

religion is whats wrong with todays world, and always has been...:hi:

[ccharles000]

74. I would be pissed

[Canuckistanian]

75. Wow. And they call ATHEISTS "pushy"

This guy has taken pushy to a new level.

[Odin2005]

76. I'm sick of religion being shoved down our throats!

:grr:

If one can justify this BS one can justify torture and genocide in the name of "saving souls".

[Divine Discontent]

77. wow, he could face some serious charges for that - I'm a Christian, but I would TELL the parents

where we were going first! He kept the agenda hidden. Took them to, for all the parents knew, was a cult!

[shimmergal]

81. He should have had the parents' permission first,

and then only for a "visit", like any other field trip.

Most churches I'm familiar with want at least one session of instruction or counseling about the meaning of the sacrament, before the baptism. (Of course it's with the parents if the baptisee is a baby or small child.) Some churches, mostly fundamentalist, have an "altar call" and do it right then if the person goes up to present themselves. Which is OK if it's an adult (though I wonder how lasting decisions made this way under social pressure will be.) But to pressure a 16-year-old like this is unconscionable, esp. if a school authority like the coach or superintendent is involved.

[Roland99]

78. The county over from my Mom. I'm not surprised at all.

Bunch of racists down that way, too.

[kath]

79. The superintendent and the coach BOTH need to be fired.

Pronto.

[donheld]

The coach and the superintendent should be fired.

[donheld]

80. The coach and the superintendent should be fired.

[earth mom]

82. Lawsuit time.

:grr:

[Nikki Stone1]

84. The article is mistitled. It's the BAPTISM that is the greater outrage here

USA Today is being disingenuous here.

[DFW]

85. I agree with that

The rules of LBN, where I originally posted, say you have to post the original title of the story,
but I agree that the baptism is the greater outrage--by far. The desire of some posters to see the
coach get a 20 minute underwater baptism is one I can fully understand.

[imdjh]

90. The Fellowship Of Christian Athletes (aka adult evangelists in public schools) has been getting away

..... with too much for too long. To say that a high school team football member participates in the coach-encouraged religion voluntarily is like saying that the cheerleader willing fucked the Algebra teacher and her A had nothing to do with it. It doesn't matter if you can prove it, doesn't matter if you can show cause and effect- the algebra teacher shouldn't be fucking the cheerleader and the coach shouldn't be fucking with his team's religion or lack thereof.

The team dynamic is coercion. That's how teams work. How the FCA has gotten away with this for so long is beyond me.

[woo me with science]

91. Maybe they all needed a bath. nt

[windoe]

92. It feels as if this country has been invaded. Not from the outside, but from within.

These people are bent on taking away all of our liberties, civil rights and safety. They refuse to see this, claiming to be real patriots, but they are not. They want to take away women's rights, refuse gay rights, our freedom of religion (or none), preserve white supremacy, and rewrite the Constitution.

HOW COME THEY ARE NOT SEEN AS DOMESTIC TERRORISTS? :rant:

I'm having one of those days, people.