We Liberals need to take over the Democratic Party just like the whack conservatives

[gateley]

took over the Republican Party. This is what Thom Hartmann was saying this morning, and I agree wholeheartedly -- we're not a strong enough force within the Party.

So how do we do that?

[Captain Hilts]

1. Eleanor never figured it out. Good luck to you!

ER: Beats the shit outta me. Good luck to you, dear...

[HereSince1628]

2. Or not. Liberals hate confrontation. PROGRESS requires confrontation!

GO Progressives Wing GOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ShortnFiery]

4. Wanna bet?!? Many of us are dyed in the wool scrappers.

:evilgrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_w3xk3jCYo&feature=channel

[HereSince1628]

5. Ya sure, I'll bet

but the decision MUST be made on contemporary behavior. I'll let you go back say 5 years.

Go ahead. SHOW ME how liberals FIGHT!

[ShortnFiery]

17. As more and more middle class Americans fall through the cracks, they'll realize

that Centrism = Corporatism.

When more people TRULY HURT FINANCIALLY, you will see the ground-swell.

Bank on it! :evilgrin:

[Common Sense Party]

46. Most Americans don't see corporations=evil

That's a steep hill to climb. A lot of people distrust government more than corporations.

[HereSince1628]

49. We really don't disagree on that. Soooo do you pay off on the bet

asdfasdfasdf

[Romulox]

22. Bullshit. I'm not afraid. nt

[HereSince1628]

51. That's mere solipsism

Look at the world beyond your own freakin skin.

[Romulox]

52. Nonsense. Your comment was unqualified. nt

[Xicano]

28. Bite your tongue!

I am a staunch proud liberal from Southern California and the prospect of conflict has 0% of deterring me from promoting liberal policies. Just like being liberal had no effect on deterring me from enlisting in the Army as an infantryman back in the 80's to do my part in providing a defense force for our country.

[HereSince1628]

50. Well, there are exceptions, perhaps you should talk to Sen. Reid.

or perhaps the entire Congressional delegation from North Dakota.

[LSparkle]

3. Thom suggested getting involved with DFA -- Jim and Howard Dean's group

and running primary challengers to the Blue Dog traitors.
We need to form our own "Club for Growth" to scare some
spines into the DINOs.

[rucky]

7. DFA and Dean seem to be every place I'd want to see a liberal.

I've been supporting that group since it was formed, and agree that it's the best hope to get us organized. Nothing against MoveOn.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

8. I would be happy to hitch my wagon to Howards star. nt

[gateley]

11. Yes, we just don't seem to have enough clout. Probably because the majority

of us aren't excruciatingly wealthy. :grr:

[Taverner]

6. I would rather all factions are represented equally

So that we don't spend our time fighting each other, but working together for a solution

Sometimes the Blue Dogs are right. On Heath Care, they're dead wrong, but on some other things (tax cuts to attract businesses) they are right

[rucky]

9. Or no factions at all...

and let each idea live or die by its own merits?

[Taverner]

12. The way you have that is to treat all factions equally

[AdHocSolver]

19. Tax cuts to attract business? Right? Wrong!

Almost every state and local government that has done that has seen the corporation use the savings used from not having to pay corporate taxes to build a factory offshore and the communities lose the few jobs created by the tax breaks.

Meanwhile government services shrink due to lower revenue from corporate tax breaks. This is a sell out by the local pols, and a lose-lose situation for the people.

A concept that looks good on paper, becomes a losing situation (except for the corporations) when everyone does it. Communities are just competing against each other for the lowest common denominator, just as American workers are forced to compete against low-wage, foreign labor when all corporations are offshoring.

[Romulox]

24. How in hell can it be "equal" when THEY have corporate $$$ backing them up?

:hi:

[Lorien]

40. When are the blue dogs right?

Blue Dog= Elephant in a Donkey suit.

[scheming daemons]

10. Yeah... how'd that work out for the GOP?

Whichever party grabs the center, grabs power.


The "whack conservatives" pushed their party away from the center and to the right... and they lost power.


Now you're advocating that we do the same.



Sounds reasonable to me.
:eyes:

[ShortnFiery]

15. There is NO "center" ... it's The People vs. The Corporations within both parties.

The GOP has sold out 100% to the large corporations while the DLC/Blue dogs, albeit the minority, runs the democratic party.

If we allow these conservative-corporate democrats to get their way as they have ALWAYS in the past (since Clinton), then we are only a gentler for of the Corporate GOP.

It boils down to this: Who do you support? Corporations or The Average American Wage Slave. If you view all legislation through the foregoing reference, you'll have the MORAL ANSWER.

[DireStrike]

47. Worked fine.

The "Center" is so far right that you can't even see it from Eisenhower's or Goldwater's chair. Nixon needs glasses to see it. Even Reagan is noticing it slide away... or he would, if he could remember where it was.

[BlueDemKev]

13. You're Kidding, Right?

If the looney-left takes over our party as the radical right has taken over the GOP, we will be sitting in the minority forever. Our main concern will be defending our "2nd place status" against the new centrist third-party made up of pragmatic liberals like Bill Clinton and disillusioned Republicans like Arlen Specter and Olympia Snowe. :eyes:

[Romulox]

26. Are posters with 131 posts allowed to call people "looney left" now?

:wtf:

[gateley]

31. I believe so, but using the Rolling Eyes has crossed the line!!

:hi:

[gateley]

33. No I am not kidding. And I'm not referring to the Looney Left -- I'm referring

to people like us. We have "pragmatic liberals" now. The DLC.

[WI_DEM]

14. The Dem party has always been a mixture of factions, but good luck in getting those liberals elected

in Arkansas, Nebraska, North Carolina, Tennessee, North Dakota, Louisiana and other states which are purple or red but have elected right of center or conservative dems in getting them to vote for a liberal.

[ShortnFiery]

18. There's only two factions: "Those with corporate backing and no conscious" and ...

those who are TRUE progressive democrats, and thus, for PEOPLE before CORPORATIONS.

It's as simple as that. :shrug:

[WI_DEM]

30. Then you don't understand the history of the democratic party

it isn't as simple as that or else we would be electing liberals in places where the blue dogs are elected. This party has never been a liberal party.

:shrug:

[ShortnFiery]

38. It's NOT left vs. right but Corporations vs. The Citizens. eom

[DireStrike]

48. Exactly, there is no left-wing party.

No representation at all. That's why we need to take this one over.

You should probably help. We'll institute campaign finance reform (public financing) and runoff or ranked list voting systems. I don't think any other faction in America will support that.

[kctim]

16. I have a question for you and Hartmann

what happens to the moderate Democrats when you "take over" the party?

[AdHocSolver]

20. They back progressive Democrats or they wind up letting right-wing nutcases take office.

The Democratic political leaders always threaten progressives with the idea that if you don't back DINO's, then you wind up letting conservative Republicans win.

Personally, my thinking is if they are going to screw the country anyway, at least the Republicans are up front about, while the backstabbing DINO's pat you on the back while they twist the knife.

[TheKentuckian]

21. Anyone that wouldn't QUICKLY choose say Bubba over Reagan or the Bushes is more fucked up than

Glen Beck.

[gateley]

35. Well, there were/are a LOT of fucked up people. WE'D choose Bubba,

the fucked ups would choose Reagan or the Bushes. Or Sarah Palin. :scared:

[kctim]

32. Big problem in your reasoning there

The moderate Democrats won't LET moderate Republicans win, their votes will HELP them win.
You won't be throwing their votes away into la-la land, you will be GIVING their votes to the Republicans. Tell me, is it worth it to give their votes to the Republicans because you don't get EVERYTHING you want? Can a liberal Democratic Party win without the moderate votes?
No and hell no.

[Dr Fate]

44. Can a moderate Democratic Party win without the Liberal votes?

No and hell no.

Looks like we are back to square one.

[AdHocSolver]

45. You totally missed the point of my post. There aren't any "moderate" Republicans left.

The choice for "moderate" Democrats would be between progressive Democrats and right-wing nut case Republicans.

So who would they vote for? There are no "moderate" Republicans. They have left (or were booted out of) the Republican Party.

[kctim]

53. That's like saying only left wing nut case progressives are in the Dem party

But, just keep believing moderate Dems will tow the progressive line. It worked so well in the 90s afterall.

[gateley]

34. From my viewpoint (which, admittedly, is only MY viewpoint), I don't see much

that the Liberals support as being at odds with moderate Dems.

[kctim]

39. Exactly

which is why this talk of liberals taking over the party and running it "their" way, is ridiculous. The viewpoints mesh together pretty well until you get into individual freedoms, and then it is a matter of degree's. When that separation is greater than it is from the moderate Republican, the moderate will most times vote for the moderate view over the liberal or very conservative view.

[TheKentuckian]

23. Just like the conservatives huh?

Seems that went super poorly but I use different yardsticks, I reckon.

[Romulox]

27. Umm, look at the last 40 years. The conservatives have won on almost every point. nt

[Dr Fate]

43. And with no public option, chalk up one more win for tea-baggers. n/t

n/t

[JNelson6563]

25. Get involved.

And get as many like minded people involved as well. Get active in your local, district and state parties. Run for and win local offices. Get re-elected to those positions, run for higher office. Repeat. All across the land.

It will take a lot of work from very many people.

Julie

[Lagomorph]

29. Why, pretend to move right, of course...

The left and the right have some issues in common. Nobody likes what they're seeing as it comes out of D.C.

You could pick two liberals and two non-religious rednecks at random and they could do better.

Stick to the nuts, bolts and screws and leave the ideology and invisible friends out in the parking lot.

Nobody wants to be a corrupt government's bitch.

[gateley]

36. I like what you say -- thanks! nt

[treestar]

37. Look at how the Repukes did it

It is described in many books. Hard work. They ran for school boards, started at the bottom. Much as I hate repukes, I admit they work hard and single mindedly and with focus and no need for immediate reward.

They started think tanks was another thing, I think.

[Dr Fate]

42. Their party supported the legit nominees. Ours does not, (See Lamont/Liberman)

n/t

[Dr Fate]

41. We tried that when we nominated Lamont. The party still supported Liberman (I-3rd Party)

That's how this will play out- whenever we nominate a Liberal, the loser will just run as a 3rd party, then "our" party will just support the conservative 3rd party instead.

Then once the conservative "Independent" is elected with the help of Republican voters and "our" party infrastructure, elected DEMS will welcome him with open arms, pretend he is a DEM, and the media will put a "D" behind their name.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Joe Liberman proved to me once and for all that "party loyalty" is only expected of the base, not of the conservative DEMS.