OK: Excerpts released offer NO concrete plan details just more of the same "goals".

[ddeclue]

and descriptions of the problem.

A concrete plan detail would be to say: I am hereby proposing that we extend Medicare to all Americans.

A goal is I would like to see all Americans covered at some point.

This is going to be a giant waste of time and a big disappointment.

:cry:

[jezebel]

1. I just don't get some people. What do you want him to do with the Congress he has? Why is it all or

nothing?

[ddeclue]

3. Because if it isn't "all" it WILL be NOTHING.

The public option is going to help next to no one as currently formulated and forcing individual mandates on citizens is just providing the insurance thieves the gun with which to rob us of even more.


Doug D.

[jezebel]

5. I don't disagree about the benefit of the Public Option, but has become more than obvious he CAN'T

get it with this Congress. So what, do nothing?

[ddeclue]

7. YES nothing is better and he ought to go for broke and then blame the Republicans and Blue Dogs

so we can finally get rid of them in 2010.

When you sleep with the devil you're bound to get burned.

Doug D.

[JDPriestly]

36. Yes. Do nothing. Because without a public option, reform

will be too expensive. We are already broke. The public option is like the spout of a teapot. It lets the excess steam from the greed of the insurance companies out of the pot. Without it "reform" will explode from the pressure of mounting health care costs.

[mike_c]

4. all or nothing-- it's like buying a car....

If it doesn't have an engine, or wheels, it's not very useful. Real health care reform is one thing, but half-assed measures are like buying an automobile without an engine. Maybe in a decade or two we can get an engine.

[ddeclue]

13. Here... have this hubcap - that's the same thing isn't it?

[TransitJohn]

39. What do we want?

We want him to get them the fuck in line and help the American people.

[DebbieCDC]

2. NY Times web site is reporting he won't insist on the public option

Middle class screwed again.

[Jennicut]

6. Hence, the term "excerpts"...the whole speech is not going to be shown to us

[ddeclue]

9. Yeah yeah whatever... you don't put out this kind of stuff and then

hold out on "I'm backing HR676" until speech time. The rest of the speech has to fit in with the released parts - it will be more non committal non specific boilerplate along with examples of people who are suffering from lack of care - we KNOW the problem and we KNOW the solution (HR676) - Obama wants to discuss the problem and avoid the solution.

Doug D.

[Jennicut]

12. Single payer?

I want single payer too but there was no way the President was ever going to put that in his speech tonight. Where are the votes for that in our conservadem filled congress?

I am talking about the public option. If no public option the bill is kind of worthless.

[ddeclue]

14. That's Obama's mistake then - he should do it so that we can use it against

the SOB's who refuse to support it.

Anything else is weakness and WE will end up paying for it in 2010 if we pass some POS that doesn't help anyone but the insurance companies.

[Jennicut]

15. Maybe we could have started out with it and negotiated downward.

But its too late now. Now he needs to make the case for the public option or get a crappy do nothing bill.

[ddeclue]

16. He's not even gonna do that and no now's the time to double down.

[Parker CA]

17. What crystal ball is telling you he's not going to make the case for the PO? nt.

[ddeclue]

18. Umm read the excerpts posted on GD... it doesn't take a Crystal Ball just common sense.

[Parker CA]

20. Do you truly believe that 4 mins worth of excerpts represent the entire speech? Do you think

that Obama would throw out all of the meat of the speech in excerpts before he even gives it? If so, I can't help you there. I, for one, think it would be ridiculous to give away the show before it even begins.

[ddeclue]

22. Yes I think 4 minutes worth of speech is enough to know where this is going.

and in fact if the speech is longer than 4 minutes - HE'S DOING IT WRONG.

LONGER IS NOT BETTER.

[Parker CA]

23. So you're suggesting seriously that Obama should make a 4 minute speech on HC reform? LOL. Okay. nt

[ddeclue]

24. Lincoln's Gettysberg address was

His Second Inaugural was not much more.

You really think healthcare is as big an issue as slavery or civil war or secession was back in 1863?

YES he could come out, say I expect you to pass HR676 and extend Medicare to ALL Americans and have it on my desk next week - if you don't I will be working to elect your replacement in 2010 and 2012 - count on it. If you send me anything less I'll veto it - count on that too.

He can then walk out of the room - speech over.

[Parker CA]

25. You should contact the WH and see if they need any speech writers. nt.

[ddeclue]

26. Yeah I would make a better speech writer than the guy who's been writing THIS drivel.

FYI: I've been published twice as a guest columnist in MyWord Op-Ed's in the Orlando Sentinel in the last 3 years and have been a featured guest blogger numerous times at the progressive blog www.brainshrub.com during 2005-2006.

People don't remember long flowery speeches full of examples like we will have to wade through tonight - this kind of speechifying is the worst possible way to try to motivate people.

SHORT speeches that get right to the point are far more effective.

Doug D.

[Parker CA]

27. Well by all means then, it sounds like you're qualified to work for the POTUS as head writer. nt.

[ddeclue]

28. Indeed I am.

November 23, 2005

We all know the scenes. We even know the lines by heart. They are embedded in our collective consciousness:

Captain Renault in Casablanca telling Victor Lazlo in the presence of Nazi Major Strasser about the "death" of Señor Ugarte - "I'm making out the report right now. We haven't decided whether he committed suicide or died trying to escape."

Darth Vader in Star Wars telling Princess Leia - "The time has come, Princess, for us to discuss the location of your rebel base" as an ominous torture droid with syringes and other menacing attachments hovers in her detention cell on the Death Star.

Nazi Major Toht in Raiders of the Lost Ark saying - "Fraulein Ravenwood. Let me show you what I am used to." as he threatens her with a red hot poker to learn of the location of the headpiece to the staff of Ra.

Torture is what we expect from Nazis, imperial storm troopers, and other villains in black hats.

We certainly didn't expect it from our own American democracy.

Yet President Bush is now promising to veto any legislation containing Senator John McCain's recent anti-torture legislation which was passed 90-9 by the United States Senate. Vice President Cheney is also actively campaigning against this anti-torture legislation by pressuring Congressmen to vote against it.

Senator McCain as a downed U.S. Naval aviator and prisoner of war in Vietnam was repeatedly tortured by the North Vietnamese and has clear moral convictions on this subject borne of his own personal pain and that of his fellow prisoners. Lieutenant Bush and Mr. Cheney meanwhile avoided both Commander McCain's war and his pain through the National Guard and multiple college deferments.

We have already seen the atrocities at Abu Grabe on the evening news and heard of others at Guantanamo Bay. We have seen the publishing by Cambridge University Press of "The Torture Papers" by Greenberg and Dratel, a 1248 page collection of actual source documents from the U.S. government detailing the systemic government plan to torture prisoners for information.

We have even seen the 60 Minutes report on "renditioning" which is apparently a fancy word for kidnapping and disappearing someone without anyone's knowledge, much less a trial, a judge, a jury, or even an International Red Cross inspector so that he can be tortured by the security services of other governments where they aren't so picky about little legal "problems" like the Geneva Conventions, the Bill of Rights or the Magna Carta.

Now we are hearing reports in the news of secret prisons in Eastern Europe where the Administration is holding alleged terrorists in unknown conditions. No doubt they've "rounded up the usual suspects" once again -and, apparently just like Colonel Jessup in A Few Good Men, they don't think that "we can handle the truth", so they have chosen to hide it from us.

How is this any different from the behavior of South American banana republic dictators, military juntas, and death squads such as we have seen in the past in the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Chile, Argentina, El Salvador and elsewhere in Latin America with their thousands of "desaparecidos" anyways?

Torture of prisoners is neither American nor Christian. (To paraphrase a popular bumper sticker - "Who would Jesus torture?")

This must end now.

The government must apologize and rectify the situation. We the People must know the truth, sooner - not later - and those in this Administration who are responsible must be impeached and brought to justice for their crimes.

Douglas J. De Clue
Orlando, FL

[Parker CA]

29. Apply then. Do it. If you've got the skills, put them to work. nt.

[ddeclue]

30. Whatever... I just despise blind hero worship... Obama is NOT the Democratic Party..

Want a writing sample?



November 23, 2005

We all know the scenes. We even know the lines by heart. They are embedded in our collective consciousness:

Captain Renault in Casablanca telling Victor Lazlo in the presence of Nazi Major Strasser about the "death" of Señor Ugarte - "I'm making out the report right now. We haven't decided whether he committed suicide or died trying to escape."

Darth Vader in Star Wars telling Princess Leia - "The time has come, Princess, for us to discuss the location of your rebel base" as an ominous torture droid with syringes and other menacing attachments hovers in her detention cell on the Death Star.

Nazi Major Toht in Raiders of the Lost Ark saying - "Fraulein Ravenwood. Let me show you what I am used to." as he threatens her with a red hot poker to learn of the location of the headpiece to the staff of Ra.

Torture is what we expect from Nazis, imperial storm troopers, and other villains in black hats.

We certainly didn't expect it from our own American democracy.

Yet President Bush is now promising to veto any legislation containing Senator John McCain's recent anti-torture legislation which was passed 90-9 by the United States Senate. Vice President Cheney is also actively campaigning against this anti-torture legislation by pressuring Congressmen to vote against it.

Senator McCain as a downed U.S. Naval aviator and prisoner of war in Vietnam was repeatedly tortured by the North Vietnamese and has clear moral convictions on this subject borne of his own personal pain and that of his fellow prisoners. Lieutenant Bush and Mr. Cheney meanwhile avoided both Commander McCain's war and his pain through the National Guard and multiple college deferments.

We have already seen the atrocities at Abu Grabe on the evening news and heard of others at Guantanamo Bay. We have seen the publishing by Cambridge University Press of "The Torture Papers" by Greenberg and Dratel, a 1248 page collection of actual source documents from the U.S. government detailing the systemic government plan to torture prisoners for information.

We have even seen the 60 Minutes report on "renditioning" which is apparently a fancy word for kidnapping and disappearing someone without anyone's knowledge, much less a trial, a judge, a jury, or even an International Red Cross inspector so that he can be tortured by the security services of other governments where they aren't so picky about little legal "problems" like the Geneva Conventions, the Bill of Rights or the Magna Carta.

Now we are hearing reports in the news of secret prisons in Eastern Europe where the Administration is holding alleged terrorists in unknown conditions. No doubt they've "rounded up the usual suspects" once again -and, apparently just like Colonel Jessup in A Few Good Men, they don't think that "we can handle the truth", so they have chosen to hide it from us.

How is this any different from the behavior of South American banana republic dictators, military juntas, and death squads such as we have seen in the past in the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Chile, Argentina, El Salvador and elsewhere in Latin America with their thousands of "desaparecidos" anyways?

Torture of prisoners is neither American nor Christian. (To paraphrase a popular bumper sticker - "Who would Jesus torture?")

This must end now.

The government must apologize and rectify the situation. We the People must know the truth, sooner - not later - and those in this Administration who are responsible must be impeached and brought to justice for their crimes.

Douglas J. De Clue
Orlando, FL

[Parker CA]

31. I don't work for the WH, but you should forward it to them since you're clearly qualified. nt.

[ddeclue]

32. Well then if you can't offer the job you shouldn't offer the job..

:P

[Parker CA]

33. I never offered you the job, but since you are so confident in your skills, apply. Do it. Action.

[ddeclue]

34. What is your stupid point? Goading for goading's sake?

I've GOT a good job and just because I'm a good writer doesn't mean that Obama is hiring.

:crazy:

What exactly are YOUR qualifications other than an idiotic blind faith in Obama?

Tell us now - ACTION!

:eyes:

[Parker CA]

35. Ad hominem is a great strategy. Stick with it. Stay classy. nt.

[liberalmuse]

8. What are YOU doing to push forward your idea of what "Healthcare Reform" should be?

If he had some backup then perhaps he'd be able to get this done. How many of you are actively fighting (sitting on your asses and posting shit on DU does not count) for Health Care Reform? Are you just leaving it up to President aka "Superman" Obama to do this on his own? Unfortunately, he is only human, and does not posess the superpowers that enable him to bipass an apathetic and unengaged population in order to get important shit done.

I'm slightly intrigued that 'excerpts' of the speech have been released when they usually release the entire thing by now.

[ddeclue]

11. I've put 5000 dollars and 5000 man hours into getting progressive Democrats elected in

the last 5 years.

Last year I made a huge effort to get a REAL progressive Democrat elected: Alan Grayson (D-FL08) to the tune of hundreds of hours working on staff and in the field and at events.

ALAN is someone who is REALLY working for REAL healthcare reform, not pathetic half-assed "compromise" with the Republicans who are NOT compromising anyways.

What the hell did YOU ever do?

I'm not going to waste my time engaging in the OFA nonsense on healthcare because it is simply a waste of time - you either elect the politicians that will do what you want or get them fired and elect someone else.

Doug D.
Orlando, Fl

[lamp_shade]

10. Oh. It's YOU.

[redqueen]

37. lol

[emulatorloo]

19. E-X-C-E_R-P-T-S means "not the whole thing"

[ddeclue]

21. Thank you Captain Obvious - I know what they mean I also know how to interpolate between data points

:eyes:

[Texasgal]

38. Gawdammit dude!

What the fuck do you want?

This is BETTER than NOTHING!

Geez, I hate the fucking debbie downers! We have to start somewhere!

[TransitJohn]

40. No it's not.

If this passes, all that it'll do is extend the extortion of the American people to line insurance companies' shareholders' pockets for another couple decades. It'll set back a rational humane single payer system for decades.

[Texasgal]

41. Sure.

Ok. :eyes: