The content of the speech was very troubling - please just think about it.

[debbierlus]

This speech left the door WIDE open for the public option to be thrown under the Bush. ('only a means to an end'). He endlessly emphasized compromise with the Republicans.

This is a government mandated private insurance plan.

The affordable health care co-ops are a complete myth. We have them here in MA, and when my sister went to the group pool, the cost for a family of three is 1,400 bucks a month. The affordable co-op price.

Cutting billions in Medicare & Medicaid to pay for it. I am appalled those on DU can celebrate a speech that mandates purchase of private insurance and paying for the program through cuts to social medical programs.

Obama essentially went against his campaign of being against mandates, there will be fines for not buying in.

So, basically we have a huge wet tongue kiss to big insurance, no check on pharmaceuticals, and the government mandating purchase of private insurance for the profits of CEOs & Wall Street executives.

Weiner Amendment not mentioned at all. Single payer completely dismissed. Fine for insurance companies to make a profit (while fucking cutting medicare & medicaid).

I am sorry DU, but what the hell are you celebrating?

[Laelth]

1. I fully agree. The speech was worse than I expected.

It was beautifully delivered, of course, but in terms of substance I am more frustrated and depressed than ever.

This was not, by any stretch of the imagination, Obama's finest hour.

:dem:

-Laelth

[panader0]

2. He said, I believe, that poor people (not sure what level) would

not be mandated to buy insurance. Over all, this is a step forward.

[debbierlus]

9. He stated people could get hardship clauses

Poor people will get coverage, they already have coverage, it is called Medicare.

My sister isn't poor. Her family makes 70,000 a year. A family plan costs 1,400 dollars a month for her husband, her, & their daughter.

This is NOT a step forward. This is a travesty.

[shraby]

19. Poor people have medicaid. Medicare is for old people.

If your going to diss Obama, at least get your facts right.

[debbierlus]

45. Cute.

I know the damn difference, it was a typo.

The fact is that the health co-ops are not affordable for many people. The full coverage family plans are sky high and MANY people just purchase suck ass catastrophic coverage that hardly offers any benefits even in a catastrophe.

You are all very quick to trust a private insurance plan given the horrors they have put this country through the last decades

[inna]

64. please see this FDL link if you haven't already,

at this point, it is not unlikely that we will end up with this monstrosity of a reform (or rather, "an attempt to turn the middle class into serfs to the health care industry"): http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/08/the-bad-max-tax/


it starts to look more and more as yet another massive transfer of wealth from those who are the most vulnerable and in most need to the corporate elites.

[debbierlus]

102. Thanks Inna

[TexasLady]

85. I can't get Medicaid

too young for medicare, and not pregnant for medicaid. I fall in the crack, Im afraid, along with my husband and college daughter. We cant qualify.
Just sayin...Im considered 'poor' but cant get ANYTHING, cept for charity..
GIVE ME REFORM!!!!
I just want some insurance I can afford!

[debbierlus]

96. I know people exactly like you here in MA -

They can't afford the group pool private insurance either. Simply too much money.

[gleaner]

115. Medicare is not only for old people ...

I have Multiple Sclerosis and worked with it while it was very active for about ten years. When I got sick enough that I couldn't work any more, I got a disability retirement which included both Social Security and medicare.

The Social Security was Title II, or regular Social Security based on my earnings, and the medicare came with it. Under some circumstances if you are awarded SSI which is a needs based program you can get both medicaid and medicare at the same time.

My husband worked for Social Security for over 30 years. They have an 800 number to answer any questions and clear up any misconceptions. Fact check anyone?:wow:

Also, there will be less of a tendency to "dis Obama" when he stops selling us out to the Republicans. They didn't elect him. We did based on promises he made during his campaign. Who else has a better reason to "dis" him.

[Matariki]

104. I agree with you Debbierlus -

I've often worked as a contractor (i.e. no insurance) and made too much to qualify for assistance but I live in an expensive city, the mortgage on my modest 960sf home is 2k a month. No way I could afford hundreds of dollars a month for insurance. It would especially sting because I rarely ever go to the doctor. I'd have to choose between insurance and saving for retirement at the very least. I would far prefer paying taxes for a universal single payer system.

[laughingliberal]

105. Not so out of line with areas that don't mandate insurance

My husband and I (the 2 of us) were paying $1200 per month to continue the coverage from my last job.

[qanda]

52. How do you define poor people in this country?

I don't know many people who can afford any extra money a month for anything. Most people are struggling to pay the bills they already have.

[intheflow]

103. The way the government determines who is poor and who is not

is based on faulty living expense calculations. For example, they work from the assumption that housing will cost people 1/4 of their income. That was true back in the day (30, 40 years ago), but today housing is more likely to be 1/2 of a family's wages, since wage increases have not kept up with the increases in housing costs. They also don't take other expenses into account, such as transportation and clothing.

[bluethruandthru]

3. I thought it was great that Obama called out the

insurance companies for all the crappy shit they pull...but why then turn around and say how they provide a legitimate service? Really? Insurance companies are only in business to deny care! They provide no care at all. Their job is to play shell games with their policyholders. They do everything possible to not pay for care. What is the legitimate service they provide?

[Solomon]

12. I see you haven't had to visit the hospital for something

serious yet. Sometimes they do pay.

[bluethruandthru]

35. Oh I've visited many times and had many procedures.

I have "good" insurance and I've never been turned down for a pre-existing condition. Yes, they do pay...but I've also noticed that in the last 10 years, they pay less and less, cover fewer and fewer things and I pay more and more and more and more. In the last 6 months alone, my insurance premium has doubled and my benefits have more than halved.
I know that if I, or one of my dependents got seriously ill, we'd probably go bankrupt because my coverage has alot of limits. And I'm one of the very lucky ones. As I said, I have what most would consider "good" insurance. The system has started to implode under it's own weight and greed.
I think the time is now to kick the insurance company habit and spend our health care dollars on actual CARE..rather than multi million dollar salaries for insurance company executives.

[laughingliberal]

106. I'm not defending the plan to keep for profit insurance companies in control

but the current bills that have passed out of committee do deal with some of the problems you are noting. There will be a cap on out of pocket expenses. The types of limits you are seeing in your policy will, likely, not be allowed.

[truedelphi]

You don't remember their one legit service?

It is this one -- they supply the Congress critters and the Presidential candidte with the necessary war chests.

From the Washinbgton Post, circa March 8th 2009

"The health-care sector has long ranked with financial services and energy interests as one of the most powerful political forces in Washington, and it spent nearly $1 billion on lobbying in the past two years alone. As momentum moves toward overhauling health care, major medical groups have stepped up their lobbying and campaign activities while shifting money and attention to newly empowered Democrats, according to federal records and industry experts."

[GreenArrow]

73. Their job is to make money,

that, and only that. They are, in a very literal sense, parasites.

[Mojambo]

4. Obama talk pretty?

I thought it was a good speech, but I feel MUCH worse about this legislation after hearing it.

[debbierlus]

48. And, that is the point isn't it. The legislation. The speech was a sales pitch

Mandated private insurance with government co-ops.

Defending insurance companies as providing a valuable service.

He described a very weak public option and left the door wide open to throw it right out the door.

More pathetic reaching across the aisle to people who are not vested in solutions.

It was gross.

The John McCain moment made me want to throw up.

[Solomon]

5. Thanks. I watched the speech but I was too stupid to see

it like you do. I feel enlightened.

[peacetalksforall]

6. I'm sorry and fearful that you are right. I hope there was a reason for the rhetoric and that all

is not lost. I truly believe that way over 50% of the people want the public option and more.

[KoKo]

30. I was disappointed he didn't talk to the "People" It sounded like rehashed Campaign Speech clips.

It sort of talked over the heads of ordinary folks who would have tuned in trying to figure out what all the hullabaloo is and why these "Tea Bag" folks are out there disrupting.

I wish he'd spoken to the Nation from the Oval Office...One on One. And, where the hell is his PLAN? So far all I hear is this leak and that from folks in his administration and congress about all the bad stuff that I wouldn't vote for if I had a chance to.

There's something very wrong going on. I don't know if it's his closest advisers giving him bad advice or it's HIM? Why is he still Campaigning. He's PRESIDENT WITH A DEM MANDATE! Yet, he still trying to talk to us like we are a crowd of fans or something.

If found it very disappointing. It was hard to get through it.

[debbierlus]

46. He is selling a corporately written insurance product -

He wasn't giving a speech for the people, it was a product campaign for the private insurance industry.

Of course it sounded rehearsed and insincere - he was selling snakeoil.

[truedelphi]

112. I have heard that seventy six percent of us want the

medicare for all option. But with the media never mentioning facts like that, and obama willing to pretend that he doesn't get it, :shrug:

[sinkingfeeling]

7. It mandates people get insurance from the exchange, including a public option, in 4 years.

[debbierlus]

11. The public option was seriously minimized. Exchanges cost a fortune

Just read about my sister in OP.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

74. But it sounds as if people won't be allowed to switch from

their private policies to the public option.

[TransitJohn]

8. You speak the truth.

But don't expect any rational engagement with the ideas in your post tonight...the fan club will label you a hater.

[LibDemAlways]

10. I'm concerned at this point that the legislation being proposed is so

shitful that it will never pass, and we'll end up where we ended up with Clinton - with nothing.

[AllieB]

13. You're right.

Liberal platitudes aside later in his speech, we need a more aggressive approach to the healthcare problem.

[kiva]

14. Some here are celebrating a speech with some

stirring phrases. Looking at several threads here and in GDP I see a lot of 'have faith in Obama and it will all be OK' sorts of posts. Guess you have to have faith to appreciate the lack of substance.

[Autumn]

23. All you need is faith and trust , and a

little fairy dust. That has been with me all week.

[Generic Brad]

15. You actually think Republicans will compromise or participate?

The troubling part is that you are thinking the Republicans will cooperate. They will not come to the table.

[Spazito]

16. I am shocked you didn't like it, it is so 'unlike' you....

:rofl:

[KittyWampus]

25. some DU'ers threads are like magnets

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shadowknows69]

20. +1

[NashVegas]

21. ie, Romney Care

We need that like we need a hole in the head.

[Avalux]

22. Your posts are so predictable! Right on cue.

*YAWN* :eyes:

[tomp]

24. Will Pitt thinks you're stupid.

just sayin'.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6504675

[truedelphi]

31. Deleted by self

[izquierdista]

26. It won't matter for me

All that planning to be an ex-pat while Dubya was in office, it's time to activate the plan. I spent most of his second term abroad looking for possibilities, but came back last March to give Obama and the US one more try. However, with no job and little likelihood of finding one in this economy, I better go someplace where you aren't forced to buy into a fraudulent con game. I have more respect for casinos than I do for health insurance; they don't force you to gamble, the payout, even on Keno, is better, and they can't practice "recission".

I won't bitch and moan, or hold out any HOPE for any sort of CHANGE now that I know that those were just slogans to sell more corporate graft.

[Mari333]

27. Im not celebrating.

[mmonk]

28. I'm not one of those celebrating.

Instead of cheering, I was calculating what does this bring for my family. The only thing I have come up with is preexisting conditions and the calculation that in 4 years, my premiums won't go up as much.

[HughMoran]

34. So, those are bad things?

?

Oh, and is this only about you?

[mmonk]

47. While those are improvements, it doesn't touch the Canadians

and Europeans in spite of the enormous resources in this country. I'm very happy about the preexisting conditions part. Four more years of premium increases, not so much given how much I spend. Are you worth less than a Canadian? Think about it.

[HughMoran]

49. I think if we could get Canadian sytle healthcare,

then we would get it. I think Obama did a pretty good job of explaining what we can get and why.

[Scarsdale Vibe]

81. So you don't have lifetime limits in your insurance?

God forbid someone in your family get sick with a serious disease that costs a lot of money to treat because currently, you'd be paying most of the expenses, and your family would likely go bankrupt. 75% of personal bankruptcies in this country caused by medical expenses are incurred by those WITH health insurance. This bill would prevent almost all of those.

So your premiums go up slower, you can't be denied coverage if you get sick, and it would be almost impossible to be bankrupted by medical expenses. It's not single-payer, but it'll do for now.

[mmonk]

83. I didn't say I did not like anything in the bill.

However, I will always envy Europeans and Canadians who will not be financially strapped for their access to healthcare. It reminds me of my place in our culture and the priorities of those that run this country. Anyone who thinks the well being of the people comes first in America lives a sheltered life. I do not have the luxury of a company paying my insurance costs.

[Mr. Sparkle]

29. Whats clear is that the Corporations has the government by the balls, no matter who's running it.

Under the republicans, they get there wish list through, under the democrats they stop reform that might hurt their pockets.

Im feeling a bit disappointed right about now. I dont blame the Prez, it is the way the government has been setup since Reagan.

[debbierlus]

100. The system is not Obama's fault - choosing to sell out to it is his fault

He could have fought one hell of a fight. He could have championed real reform and made this a call for the people over profits.

He choose the road to hell and he is bringing us along with him.

What is really infuriating is that so many here seem fine with this sell out, fine with his breaking his campaign promises, fine with the backroom deals....

It is a huge set back for real democratic and progressive reform.

And, man, was it easy for them.

[HughMoran]

32. Hmmm, debbie found it "troubling"

Well, there's a surprise. Why was your criticism so muted - normally you're ripping Obama a new ass hole.

[Ikonoklast]

36. And all her like-minded hand-wringers are along for the "Concern Ride".

Imagine that, Obama dissapoints debbie yet again.

The Horror.

[HughMoran]

37. Yeah, it's very unusual for debbie to be dissapointed

:rofl:

[tkmorris]

40. Could we have a discussion about this without the insults and juvenility?

Please? This issue matters, it's not a joke, or a popularity contest, or a football game. People will literally live or die depending on how this sorts out.

[debbierlus]

51. Ignore them. There is a group that always responds this way instead of discussing the issue

[HughMoran]

62. You've posted hundreds of hate threads

So, it's understandable that people don't like you - you're always negative.

[mmonk]

53. Sometimes, it can sink into a sort of version of a you're with us or against us

thing. Too bad. While I welcome the changes, I wish my country could do better. I certainly don't see much cost containment in this bill, just talk about cost containment of medicare which when compared to private insurance, is way more contained already.

[paulk]

119. +1

this board has been taken over by bullies and sycophants

these are issues that we, as Democrats and liberals, need to be discussing.

[ima_sinnic]

93. you act as if nothing she's said here has any merit

are you so stupid you think you are NOT being played for a fucking fool by the insurance companies and their new official spokesperson?
or is it all lala land where you are?

[Skittles]

126. to them, only absolute fawning is merited

they are indeed in fucking O-lala land

[graywarrior]

33. It's a step in the right direction.

No one else has done a damn thing in a hundred years.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

38. But it's doesn't pass the purity patrol's litmus test so under the bus it goes.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

75. No, it doesn't pass the smart negotiating test

It's STUPID to compromise with bullies, especially to compromise pre-emptively.

[Ruby the Liberal]

110. LBJ had Medicare up and running in 11 months.

It must have been the superior technology compared to today. :p

Where theres a will, theres a way! :hi:

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

39. You should put some lotion on those hands,

they've got to bleeding by now with all of that hand-wringing.

[Maraya1969]

41. Were you listening? He said they can pay for it by stopping all the fraud

in Medicare and Medicaid. I am on Medicare and once I went to a foot doctor for an infected toe. They took my footprints, drummeled my toenail and wrote a prescription.

THE CHARGE I FOUND ON THE MEDICARE FORM WAS $340.00. They lied and said they took X-rays and maybe a few other bullshit things. You
can call a Medicare fraud specialist and this time they seemed to take note. I don't know what they did but he is still in practice.

But I have had several of these pumped up charges and I have always called and one women even said that they had already paid for the service so their was nothing she could do. Bullshit!

They should be rewarding people who catch doctors skimming the pool just like the insurance companies get rewarded when they block a person's treatment.

And don't forget that billions are coming from the tax roll back. That is not chump change.

[debbierlus]

54. The private health insurance companies are the biggest waste of money there is...

They chew up a third of all health care dollars and they charge 100% more then Medicare (the model for government health insurance).

If they were serious about addressing fraud, they would address the biggest fraud to the system there is - private health insurance companies.

Instead, Obama is mandating purchase of their defective product, making no demands for a real public option that will hold them in check (did you hear him - no one can leave their employer insurance for a public plan & he estimated that only 5 percent of the population would be enrolled IF a public option even goes through. And, he left the door WIDE open for even that small provision to be thrown out.

You honestly think that chopping billions from Medicare & Medicaid won't result in loss of care.

Sure, there is fraud and that should be addressed. But, the main waste in health care is private insurance profits and over the top administrative costs.

The private insurance companies will grow even more powerful under this plan.

This is the system that has brought health care to its knees.

It isn't doctors. It isn't Medicare. It is the insurance companies. You could chop off a THIRD of the cost of medical care with a single payer program, and pay for everyone to have comprehensive coverage. And, that is something the President didn't tell you. There won't be universal coverage with this plan and there won't be EQUAL coverage with this plan. Everyone will have some different version of care - mandated coverage is often just suck ass catastrophic coverage. Some will have great care, some will have terrible care. We will all have to pay to ensure the health insurance industry keeps their profit margins and continues their mafia like control of the system.

This is unacceptable. More then that...it is a outright betrayal.

[Hepburn]

42. I am not pleased...

...at all.

I worked for this??? Fuck that shit.

JMHO

[johnaries]

43. On the contrary, he made an excellent case for the Public Option.

He merely asked that we be willing to listen to other ideas. He also quite forcefully said "I will not back down from the basic concept if that you do not have an affordable option, we will offer you one".

He also made an excellent case for the need for a mandate and emphasized "for those who can afford it".

And did you not pay attention to what he said about Medicare and Medicaid? They won't be cutting benefits, the millions will come from eliminating fraud and waste.

Were you paying attention at all?

[debbierlus]

44. Obama needed to forcefully come behind the public option instead of treating it as a small component

open to be thrown away....

I listened to it. And, I read it.

It was a speech to mandate private government insurance.

I live under the system in MA. My own sister can afford to buy 'affordable' insurance from the damn co-ops. 1,400 bucks a month for a healthy family of three. It is NOT affordable for many people. Of course, to avoid the fine she can buy shit ass catastrophic insurance, something Obama skipped right over.

When you talk about health insurance, you are not talking about equal levels of care. You buy what you can afford to meet the mandate. And, for many, that is bare bones very incomprehensive catastrophic coverage.

The public option he did describe was WEAK. He stated that people couldn't leave their employer insurance, even if it sucked to come to a public plan and stated only 5% of the population is estimated to participate.

No strong public option (as defined in the speech by Obama).

Mandates that he ran against.

More pathetic 'open to ideas & compromise'....

This plan SUCKS. It is a sell out to the big corporations.

[inna]

72. again, you're absolutely right. nt

[nachosgrande]

50. The tiniest step forward...

If single payer is 100% improvement, the plan the President spoke of tonight is maybe a 5-10% improvement of what we have now.

Overall, I'm not too pleased about what I heard tonight, but I can't really lay too much blame at the feet of the President. Democrats really are a "big tent" party, who, unlike the Repukes, do not march in lockstep behind their leaders.

[debbierlus]

58. No, It is not an improvement. It is handing money and more power over to a corrupt corporate

Mob...

The President broke campaign promises on health care BIG time.

He ran on EVERYONE having the option to join a healthcare plan (publicly run) just like the one he had as a US senator.

He ran on NO mandates for health insurance.

He stated that the process would be transparent and available to view on C-span. He made backroom deals, and hearing and committee meetings were held behind closed doors.

He didn't even TRY to push this agenda.

He sold us out to big pharm making deals that will allow them to profiteer to the tune of billions for a small trade in closing the Medicare donut hole.

This is an outrage. This is being sold out. And, this isn't a big tent party at all. It is a very, very, very small tent where progressives are thrown under the bus and told to shut the fuck up (per Rahm) and the corporations push the buttons.

We are in very big trouble. This was a big moment tonight whether people realize it or not. It was the night the democrat party abandoned their base.

[Neecy]

69. exactly

I can't believe any Democratic board would have so much cheering of a plan that will end up being a massive transfer to wealth to the top 1% - or how this "plan" shows that Hope and Change were just cheap slogans. Our entire government has been bought and paid for. What's he's proposing isn't much different than the Baucus plan with a weak public option included.

[redqueen]

88. So... getting coverage for people isn't as important as denying more corporate welfare.

I disagree.

I like helping those who need it more than I hate corporate welfare.

Priorities.

[debbierlus]

97. This plan won't cover everyone and it won't provide equal coverage for those who are insured

Instead of trying to defend a corporate welfare program, why don't you stand up and fight for real reform that will cover everybody and provide equal coverage to everybody?

This plan isn't financially sustainable, it doesn't address the largest waste in the system, and it will be too expensive for many people to afford full coverage.

[rollingrock]

55. People are mesmerized/captivated by his speaking style

they don't bother to read between the lines

[debbierlus]

63. Mandated private insurance with a weak or no public option

And, fines for not participating.

Not much line reading required.

[rollingrock]

65. True dat

people are often influenced by style over substance.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

76. That's how he got elected

He does a good job of pretending to be a left-populist until you listen to what he's actually saying.

I was never fooled and voted for him only because he wasn't McCain. I would have equally as well voted for Hillary Clinton or John Edwards--but only because they aren't McCain.

[SammyWinstonJack]

107. So true!

:thumbsup:

[donheld]

56. Nothing would satisfy you

[rollingrock]

57. Simply keeping his campaign promises

would more than satisfy most of us, for starters.

regrettably, Obama hasn't done that in regard to healthcare

[debbierlus]

61. Do those of you who endlessly cheer this president stand for anything?

Because I see no substance in your response...usually there is no response other then four year old jibes.

Personal insults and dismissing the content of what I write just indicates that you really fear that I am right, and only by tearing down the messenger can you make yourselves feel better.

It is incredibly sad.

This issue is too important to waste your time putting a politican over substance.

Obama sold you out tonight. He has been atrocious on fighting for real health reform. And, all the insults in the world won't change the fact that your President allowed the corporations to dictate this debate and legislation. It won't change the fact that he didn't even begin to fight.

You are cheering a speech that basically outlined the corporate insurance wet dream. Government mandated private insurance for all. Cuts in Medicare and Medicaid to pay for it. Fines for those who don't.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

77. Never mind, debbie

They're still on the hero worship level.

[KittyWampus]

82. who the fuck do you think you are "hero worship level"? what is your problem? why are you on DU?

I have my issues with Obama and how things are progressing.

But things ARE progressing.

That means "hero worship level"?

How about just affirming a good night to be a Democrat?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

89. It's a disappointing night to be a Democrat

1. Public option not open to everyone

2. Plan doesn't take effect for four years

3. Private companies get a new captive audience but no limits on premiums or executive compensation

If you're ready to settle for a quarter of a loaf because Obama STARTED by asking for only half a loaf, then that's up to you.

I don't have to be happy just because you think I should be. I purchase insurance on the individual market, and I've actually read much of HR3200. As far as I can tell, I will be stuck with my crappy insurance, because there's no obligation on the insurance companies to eliminate deductibles.

Big whoop.

[donheld]

79. I've never seen you say one good thing about Obama

Ever

[inna]

59. completely agree, and rec#15.

[sam kane]

60. the mandate is nuts.

celebrating insurance companies, forcing us to buy their crap product does nothing to help this nation.

[PHIMG]

66. Cuts to medicare = eliminate medicare advantage

Which were a partial privatization of Medicare put in by republicans. Getting this out of there is a good thing. I don't know why this has to be a cut. IT should be called a "reallocation" this money will be put towards future growth in traditional medicare spending.

I agree with your other arguments but being wrong on the cuts to medicare weaken your overall case.

[Barack_America]

67. Cut Medicare and Medicaid? What?

Cost savings do not mean reduction in coverage, it means paying less to providers for services.

:eyes:

[ddeclue]

68. +1

I think the problem is that so many people don't understand the difference between conditionals can or may and the imperatives shall and will.

[spanone]

70. i have thought about it. G R E A T .

nwmhtt

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dysfunctional press]

78. "our president did well"...???

when was that, exactly?

[midnight armadillo]

80. $2000/month for 4 in MA

for fuck's sake, that's more than my mortgage.

[ShortnFiery]

84. Yes, he gives a beautiful speech but it was far too milquetoast with regard to

SUBSTANCE.

Dammit! I don't think President Obama realizes that he may dupe "the progressive caucus" but LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES will not go to the mat for him unless he DEMANDS a Robust Public Option.

I feel let down. Disappointed but not surprised. :(

[peacetalksforall]

86. It must be very difficult for Republicans who want to privatize everything. While I can't think

of anything privatized as good for the nation.

The Congress and federal employees are covered as well as State (and Local)?
The military is covered.
Seniors are covered.
Disabilities are covered.

We're talking the working class and private businesses.

We're talking wealth and poverty.

We're talking the employed, the un-employed, the poorly employed.

There is no reason under the sun that a government program wouldn't work unless it's sabatoged.

From here on out it's lies and numbers - we have to fight the lies with honest numbers.

We can't afford not to have everyone covered.

We must stop feeding rich people at the expense of the poor.

It just has to stop. This is 2001 and we are supposed to be evolved. We are animals. No growth in the United States of America.

It looks like the same fight has started all over again.

[earth mom]

87. Thank you for stating the truth clearly here on DU.

I missed the speech so when I got to DU earlier tonight this place was filled with crazy incoherent posts either cheerleading the speech or trying to make it smell like a rose.

So I went and listened to the speech for myself and I was NOT happy with what I heard.

Why in the HELL is the entire country going to be forced to give those gawd damned mo fo mafia-esque insurance companies even more money-which essentially boils down to highway robbery?!



WTF-Obama doesn't want to put those mo fos out of business?!!! :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:



If this entire "Health Care" charade doesn't scream MAFIA in all caps I don't know what does!!! :grr:


And one more thing:

I expected the cheerleading, but what pisses me off the most is that people around here are trying to make this shit smell like a rose!!! :puke:

[truedelphi]

92. Maybe the Stockholm Syndrome explains some of this

Eight years under Bush and then this entire summer of RW whack jobs screaming about death panels makes the shy looking guy who speaks in coherent sentences appear to be so, well, so HOPEFUL.

I mean, maybe he'll deliver. Don't you hope so?

Or not. But we live in a nation that has very little in the way of intelligent discussion of ANYTHING. Let alone of Health Care.

Every thing you say strikes me as being spot on.

But the Talking Heads will never be caught saying what you are saying. Because in the end the Talking Heads serve the same Corporate Masters that President Obama does, and that Congress does. The Big Pharma and Health Care industry has spent two billion dollars offering the candidates campaign chest monies between March of 2007 and March of 2009.

And our newscasters are paid to not say anything that would affect the advertising monies that comes there ways. Why is it that there are ads for drugs on 24/7 when the surveys show we click away from them? Because those ads keep control over the newscasters and what they can report on.

[debbierlus]

99. We will never defeat the corporate fascists if all it takes is a sales pitch

From a smooth speaker to sell their agenda...

[TheKentuckian]

90. I'm wondering when the masters of negativity and angst are going to get their bill through?

This isn't about left, center, or right but just purely about being unrealistic, unreasonable, unhinged, and fucking boring. The bitter "progressive" isn't any more left or committed than most in the party, they are just shrill, illogical, and petulant.

I'm starting to see Rahm's point except its not the left, it is the jackasses. The supposed uber-liberals are just like most in the party except they vote for Nader and ignore reality as well as logic and common sense. Hell, the silly buggers can't even count to 50 or 60.

[girl gone mad]

94. What's illogical about not wanting to be forced to buy private insurance?

What's illogical about wanting to adopt a system similar to the ones in every other industrialized nation, that work better than ours by nearly every measure?

what's unreasonable about holding the President to his word on the campaign trail, no mandates and a strong public option?

What's unrealistic about wanting a paired down, solid bill rather than some bloated POS corporate giveaway?

[debbierlus]

98. It doesn't matter how logical the criticism or how valid

They don't want to hear it. Keeping their illusion of Obama trumps reality and advocating for real reform.

It is sad to see our side act like the Bushbots.

[Cha]

120. You're acting like a

bushbot.:silly:

[debbierlus]

101. Don't you DARE frame wanting real health care reform that isn't a sell out to corporations

As some jack ass, ultra-liberal position....

SHAME ON YOU

Obama basically gives a sales pitch for the corporate insurance companies and you have the nerve to insult those who call him out on it?

A jackass would be someone who allows themselves to be sold out to corporations who destroyed the system and then advocate for their legislation.

[truedelphi]

91. DU'er inna pointed me to this link at firedoglake

A blogger named empty wheel made these comments:

Update: Here's Bad Max's "framework."

Bad Max Baucus' health care plan is, best as I can tell, an attempt to turn the middle class into serfs to the health care industry.

Consider the "limits" he places on health care costs for those who make between 300% and 400% of the poverty limit (between $66,150 and $88,200 for a family of four):

Another section of Mr. Baucus’s proposal would help pay insurance premiums, co-payments and deductibles for people with incomes less than 300 percent of the poverty level ($66,150 for a family of four). It would also provide some protection for people with incomes from 300 percent to 400 percent of the poverty level (up to $88,200 for a family of four), so they would generally not have to pay more than 13 percent of their income in premiums.

So Bad Max says that he will prevent these people from having to pay more than 13% of their income in health care premiums. For the family of four making $67,000, that's $8,710. For the family of four making $88,200, that's $11,466. For the family of four making $90,000, apparently, there are no such limits, so they may be paying much more. For what may well be utter and total junk. Now, frankly, there are a lot of middle class families already paying more than that. Heck, mr. ew and I are paying more than $8,700, and that's just for two of us, and that's before Blue Cross starts whacking us for my pre-existing condition next year.

[debbierlus]

95. Obama conducted a sales pitch for the private insurance companies

And, he sold a lie.

The cost to insurance will be unaffordable for many. It won't be universal. And, it won't be equal coverage. Some will have full coverage, some will only have useless catastrophic coverage purchased to avoid fines.

It is outrageous. And, the cheerleaders on this board should be ashamed of themselves.

[truedelphi]

109. Debbie I am trying to think of a single REFORM that has been an actual

Reform and not a taking.

Okay, LBJ's Medicare and Civil Rights Acts were reforms, but in the months before the Civil Rights Act passge, LBJ didn't go around asking segregationists for their help in writing the Civil Rights Act.

There was the Reagan era 1984 Tax Reform. It ignored the fact that whereas families could support themselves on 4,000 bucks a year in 1950, (With one job holder) while paying little in taxes, but due to inflation a family could not support themselves on 25,0000 a year in the eighties. Yet for that 25K, you were in a much higher tax brackets. No adjustment for these people. Just a give to the rich.

And there was Clinton's Welfare Reform Act. This penalized poor families.

Then we reformed the schools with "No Child Left Behind."
And those in the know hate this reform.

So can I be blamed for wondering if this reform is not just another turn of the sctrew?

[madfloridian]

108. From transcript...no public option for 4 years.

This is how I read it:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/09/transcript-obama-addresses-congress-health-care-reform/

OBAMA: And all insurance companies that want access to this new marketplace will have to abide by the consumer protections I already mentioned.

This exchange will take effect in four years, which will give us time to do it right. In the meantime, for those Americans who can't get insurance today because they have preexisting medical conditions, we will immediately offer low-cost coverage that will protect you against financial ruin if you become seriously ill.

OBAMA: And the insurance reforms that I've already mentioned would do just that, but an additional step we can take to keep insurance companies honest is by making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange."

[bvar22]

114. You DO know why they are delaying implementation for 4 years?

No one in their right mind would believe it would take 4 years to get this up and running.
LBJ got Medicare up and running in less than a year.
Congress bailed out Wall Street in less than a week, and it went into effect IMMEDIATELY.

They KNOW the low information voters are going to be very unhappy when they open their NEW Health Care Reform Package and find a BIG bill from the For Profit Health Insurance Industry.

Delaying implementation for 4 years will put it past the 2012 elections.

[Mixopterus]

117. Agreed

Same thing came to mind when I saw that.

It's just a passive, underhanded way to smother it quietly and ruin the concept of universal health care in the future.

[Ruby the Liberal]

111. Mandate without a mandatory public option and no language

about premium cost containment?

There is simply nothing positive about this.

I am only somewhat familiar with RomneyCare. Is there a public option in the mix? If not, has anyone challenged the legality of fining people if they don't purcahse something from the private sector?

[Old Hob]

113. why do I get the feeling that I won't be eligible for the public option?

My options will be get raped by an insurance company or get fined by the government...decisions decisions...

[Mixopterus]

116. People not from Massachusetts just don't get it

Romneycare has been an abysmal failure here, people who cannot afford it just do without, as getting fined is less pricey than paying an obscene amount. That doesn't change the fact that they are losing money for essentially nothing.

Oh, and the mandatory health insurance did absolutely nothing for our premiums. They are just as bad as ever.

[opihimoimoi]

118. WTH is this???? as of today polls indicate nearly 80% approve of this President

and his goals...

It was OUTTA the Park....

[Fading Captain]

121. Fuck the polls

You didn't adress any issues.
When the public finds out about these issues, the polls are gonna go south.

[opihimoimoi]

122. 80% = OVERWHELMING...Fuck Negativism

[Fading Captain]

123. Negativism is CALLED FOR

When you send a President to take on the insurance companies, and he hands them $30 billion.

[opihimoimoi]

124. OK OK I'm the micro manager in charge,,,,,he is only the President

[Skittles]

125. it's very clear to everyone who pays attention

not many of us here it appears